Quote:

---

gettinjiggywithit said:
I'm happy to see you two laughing, even if it's AT me not with me because, that's what clowns are for, to help us to lighten up when we take ourselves and lives to seriously.

Im happy that your happy, i was only laughing at your stiffness, stuborness and inability to admit when you were mistaken. 

I trust some day your Buddha will help teach you to move beyond duality perception.

Are you still going with that "holier than thou" attitude? What happended to "ALL is ONE". Since when did the Buddha become 'my' Buddha? 

What I said in the Bliss/grief post is just what I said and I will say it all again and again and be okay with it just as it is because in truth that is all it is, what it is. I don't take any of it back. Only duality goggles split reality up into right or wrong in front of what just is .......One truth that is all encompassing, one heart in love, one mind in light, one body in spirit.

So does this means that you did'nt learn/unlearn anything about Buddhism?  Will you just repeat your mistakes and stick with your stubborn views and assumptions even though myself and others have tried to educate and correct your misunderstandings again and again?  You say that duality googles split things up into right or wrong yet you still hold onto your views and maintain that they are part of the "One" truth. This looks like the perfect way of avoiding admiting when you are mistaken. Arent right and wrong also part of this "One" truth as well? Are you afraid of being "wrong"?

Right and wrong are symbols just like everything else within the state of non-duality. Would you consider raping and murdering a child wrong? Realtivily right and wrong are very useful for our perception, unless you are a violent sociopath that is.

Non-duality ecompases all of duality. It sounds paradoxal, but thats just the way it is, How do you think the Buddha realized omnipotence? You can't reject and negate duality, thats just not the view of non-duality

I will laugh with you laughing at me because, it's about joy, ease  and the humor in the cosmic joke to me. Remember your bliss, the rest is just an illusion. Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Ive got a little news for you jiggy. Even the Bliss is illusory OmmmmmmmmmmmAhhhhhhhhhHummmmmmmmmmm

---

Quote:

---

gettinjiggywithit said:
CJ,

I was responding to the sort of language or wording used that can "make it appear" to be dualistic.

I see where you are comming from, but its not dualiistic at all, you asked about the title of my bliss/misery post and i gave you a response which was not dualistic as it was an explainiation of how dulaism and non-dualism manifest. But perhaps you missed the point.

The main goal was to show how the vastness of it's teachings can put people off to it buy how others present in a dualistic or limiting light.

Who presented it in a dualistic and limited light? And more importantly, what position are you in to judge, when time and time again you have demonstrated your lack of knowlege of the teachings?

If anyone wants to share its virtues to newbies to it, I give them all something to look for in their wording if they would like to see it gain greater acceptance. I've seen many present it a light or wording that isolates others as well.

Do you really? How So?  Give an example of both?

My bad for aplying constructive criticism. In the other thread that egg is blowing out of proportion I asked why he had in his post header two lines going in opposing directions if it wasn't a dualistic teaching. He even gave me a dualistic answer about infinity going in two opposing directions while saying it wasn't a dualistic teaching. So, I give up questioning it's devotees. Sort of like dealing with Catholics and Christians.

Since when was your criticism contructive? You were'nt even playing, questioning or critizing with the facts, you judged with your own misunderstanding. Im going to explain it one more time, in the simplest way possible so maybe you can understand ok. So we have two states of being, Samsara(lasting misery) and Nirvana (lasting bliss), now don't get too carried away and judge so quickly, it may look dualistsic at first glance, but bear with me here and you might understand.

Samsara is dualistsic percerption which has its roots in ignorance of our natural state which is non-dual wisdom, its a confused experession of non-duality becuase it has infinte consideration of subject and object when in fact niether have any real solid existence.

Most beings have this deluded perception, that why it is explained this way. Nirvana is non-dual wsidom which manifests out of the stable recognition of the reality of our natural state, which has always been non-duality. Non-duality manifests when there is no longer any consideration, through ignrance, of subject and object, both are seen as they really are, empty of inherent existence, and so the dualistic persception dies into the infinte space of non-dual wisdom.

The dualistic perception has infinte suffering, and Buddhism has infite methods for eliminating ignorance. There are many methods becuase there are many sentient beings. Some start with cutting at the outer branches of ignorance, some go straight for the root, it all depends on the indivudal and his/her capacity to apply a given teaching. So you can see that this teaching explains dualistic vision and its cause, and it also explains non-dual wisdom and how that manifests. So, how does this appear to be a dualistic teaching? How can it be when it explains both duality and non-duality and how each state manifets. But this maybe a little too complicated jig, you better stick to the "All is One" idea, as of course that explains everything. 

I wave the white flag and surrender. Let it be whatever it is and people make it out to be and let the cookies crumble where they may. Mice need crumbs to feed on too so it all fits in with the circle of life. 

There is no battle to surrender to, everything is already as it is, and its obvious that the claims you have made are baseless. But can't you see that im trying to show you something? There is this zen story i would like to relate to you. A man who has had many mystical and spiritual experiences was going to see a Zen master to have a disscussion about his experience. He went into the small temple where the master was making tea and sat down. he began to explain how he had had experiences of merging with the universe and how everything was one, and how he knew the secrets of the universe revealed to him through his own insights. The Zen master started to pour a cup of tea as the man continued talking, the student looked for a moment, as the tea cup began to fill to the rim and flow all over the table and onto the carpet.

The student shouted "Stop, what are you doing, you are spilling tea all over the place, arent you supposed to be enlightened? You should be more aware!" The master looked up at the student with a sad expression on his face and said " Come back when your cup is empty".   

---

Quote:

---

CaptainJailew said:
I think everyone is sort of blowing up for no reason - I can understand where the confusion starts though, in bi0s post when he said "do you think language is what led you astray" jiggy took it as being dualistic - obviously the question is presupposed on a couple of ideas - 1) Learyfan HAS BEEN led astray and 2)Language may be to blame.

I think there was more of a problem with misunderstanding and misinterpretation than anything else. All bio was trying to ask was if the language used in Buddhism is what put him off (lead him astray or whatever), as this happens alot with Buddhism in general, granted it was'nt a very skillfull use of language, but then again he was'nt expecting any nit picking about it. Shunryu Suzuki's book was excellent becuase it was'nt just another peice of intellectual drivel. It was a direct method intricatley and poeticly interwoven into a simple explanation of zen. It truly is a beautiful book.

Whatever. This is not a big deal, the only basis for argument I can see here is if bi0 HAD REALLY said "all ways are the way" or something to that effect, because then it would be impossible for the way of language to not be "THE" way since all ways are "THE" way. Whether or not that was originally said or is simply a perversion of Buddhist ideas perpetuated by jiggy - i don't know.

No its not a big deal, i just used the oppertunity to make an example and a point whilst atatempting to educate jiggy. You can say that all 'ways' are the same, but thats not true. You can also say something like "Buddhism is the only way" but thats not true either. The way for each individual will be different, and knowone can market, own or possess "THE" way becuase its like space.

All that being said, "Do you think "X" is what you led you astray" DOES sound like a "Jehovah's Witness" type comment simply because it kind of presupposes the notion of a "right" way, and by asking if language is what got you "off" the "right" way then the person inquiring is also setting up a scenario in which they know the way. If I can hypothesize as to why you are sick, then obviously I know something about health and the state of being healthy. Jiggy was just turned away by the question because it denied the existence of mutiple paths of Truth and also places bi0 in a position of knowledge. I think this overemphasizes the nature of the question and ignores how confining the english language is, sometimes to get our point across we are forced to use words and ideas not necessairly wholly inclusive of how we feel.

Now thats entirely down to speculation and interpretation. If you asked bio, you would have found out exactly what he meant by that statement. Instead the bickering commenced, and i stepped in to make a point and an example of jiggy for his own benefit and understanding.


What a dumb thing to fight over, all of you need to take a chill pill or meditate or do whatever floats your boat on the tranquil sea of peace.

Interesting how you percieved a fight, whereas i saw an oppertunity 

---