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Offlineacoustic
barrmmmFFF
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Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 137
Loc: texas
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Trying to help a Friend.
    #4083640 - 04/22/05 02:47 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

My best friend, he doesn?t believe in god or Jesus Christ? you know he?s all into the evolution theories and I don?t believe in anything that can?t be proven. He says, ?I believe in science, shit that can be proven.?  He is a very intelligent guy and I look up to him but that?s one thing we don?t agree on. My self I believe in JC and find mushrooms to be very spiritual (not necessarily god) but you know being and what we really are. This summer we are going to dose and I always joke with him that ?he will see there is a god when you trip with me.? Is it possible that he may change his ways or will it have a neutral effect. Who knows I am just hoping maybe it might inspire him to believe and know that maybe there is another place after death and it doesn?t stop at the grave. Well I hope you guys were not bothered by my rambling and hope to hear some good feedback. :smile:


--------------------



"May the wind always be at your back, And the sun upon your face, And the winds of destiny carry you aloft, To Dance with the stars..."


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OfflineMitchnast
Trial by Madness
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Registered: 10/28/99
Posts: 8,576
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Re: Trying to help a Friend. [Re: acoustic]
    #4083741 - 04/22/05 03:34 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

why do you beleive in JC?


--------------------


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Trying to help a Friend. [Re: acoustic]
    #4083771 - 04/22/05 03:48 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Their is not one direct piece of evidence which lends itself to the actual existance of JC...

Beyond that, are you his friend for his beliefs, or for his personality? Look up the pygmalion project on the internet, and apply the situation to your friendship...

Don't let this get in the way, I'm sure your friend also wants you to be more skeptical and scrutinize your existance... At least I do :smile:

(your Avator kicks ass btw; and ramblings always give some new material to read  :smirk:)



--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Trying to help a Friend. [Re: acoustic]
    #4083798 - 04/22/05 04:05 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I have tripped many times and not seen God. Methinks you are projecting.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinewjames
Phenomenologist

Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 185
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
Re: Trying to help a Friend. [Re: acoustic]
    #4083863 - 04/22/05 04:29 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

acoustic said:
Is it possible that he may change his ways or will it have a neutral effect. Who knows I am just hoping maybe it might inspire him to ...hope to hear some good feedback. :smile:




(1) set a good example

(2) if you trip, make the effort to prepare a conducive 'set and setting'

(3) use prayer--ask Jesus to come into the life of your friend.

(4) if you're friend is agreeable, see if he/she can say,"Jesus, if you're really there, you're welcome to make my life better."

And it's always good idea to remember what Jesus said about the mote in your brother's eye.


--------------------
"We're all in this consciousness-raising business together."
"An idle mind is the devil's workshop."
"Everyone should eat hashish, but only once." - S. Dali


Edited by wjames (04/22/05 06:17 AM)


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Trying to help a Friend. [Re: Swami]
    #4083869 - 04/22/05 04:32 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I too was told that I'd see God when I first tripped. Not on that very occasion, but well before-hand..

regardless, though through the course of my own brightly-colored, distorted and wavery journies.. I have seen many things, but never have seen any sort of diety.

If he's not pushing his beliefs, or nonbeliefs, onto you.. don't push yours onto him.

of course, if there's pushing, push back.. I know I jab at my friends some times, they jab back, and it passes the time.

it's of course possible that a trip could trigger a change in beliefs for your friend. lesser things have been known to do so.. it's also possible that he'll (hopefully) have a blast and not have any sort of spiritual thoughts the whole time.


--------------------
i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.


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Offlinewjames
Phenomenologist

Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 185
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
Re: Trying to help a Friend. *DELETED* [Re: Swami]
    #4083871 - 04/22/05 04:34 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by wjames

Reason for deletion: thought of a better reply



--------------------
"We're all in this consciousness-raising business together."
"An idle mind is the devil's workshop."
"Everyone should eat hashish, but only once." - S. Dali


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Offlinewjames
Phenomenologist

Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 185
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
Re: Trying to help a Friend. [Re: Swami]
    #4083889 - 04/22/05 04:52 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
I have tripped many times and not seen God. Methinks you are projecting.




Methinks the Swami doth protest too much.  :smile:


--------------------
"We're all in this consciousness-raising business together."
"An idle mind is the devil's workshop."
"Everyone should eat hashish, but only once." - S. Dali


Edited by wjames (04/22/05 04:57 AM)


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Trying to help a Friend. [Re: wjames]
    #4083894 - 04/22/05 05:01 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

If I "WILL" find it, that means I don't have to look; otherwise I am talking myself into something.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlineacoustic
barrmmmFFF
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Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 137
Loc: texas
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Re: Trying to help a Friend. [Re: Swami]
    #4083941 - 04/22/05 06:16 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

guys thanks allot for that post that really gave me some shit to think about ...by the way i am stoned very hardcore right now and i have the best college-high story to tell and it will go down in the book of high time urban ledgends and myths.


--------------------



"May the wind always be at your back, And the sun upon your face, And the winds of destiny carry you aloft, To Dance with the stars..."


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Offlinewjames
Phenomenologist

Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 185
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Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
Re: Trying to help a Friend. [Re: Swami]
    #4083951 - 04/22/05 06:23 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
If I "WILL" find it, that means I don't have to look; otherwise I am talking myself into something.




I hear ya. But it seems like no matter what happens or what you do, there's an element of choice.

For what it's worth, since you mention Will, my namesake, william james wrote a nice little essay, "The Will to Believe." I think one of his points is that even if you have to "will" the belief in God, that's not necessarily a bad or invalid thing.

One thing people can do is try an experimental or provisional belief--and see if it makes their life better. That's the pragmatic argument of James.


--------------------
"We're all in this consciousness-raising business together."
"An idle mind is the devil's workshop."
"Everyone should eat hashish, but only once." - S. Dali


Edited by wjames (04/22/05 06:24 AM)


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Trying to help a Friend. [Re: acoustic]
    #4083955 - 04/22/05 06:28 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

hahaa.. but you're a day late for that! :P


--------------------
i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.


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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/05
Posts: 230
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Re: Trying to help a Friend. [Re: acoustic]
    #4083959 - 04/22/05 06:31 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

You are enforcing your help rather than helping him. It is not up to you to decide what he should believe in. What is the point of freedom under the rule of a tyrant?

Would you consider right someone enforcing his beliefs on you directly or indirectly no matter its validity? You can share your beliefs but don't feed them to your friend. When the time is right he'll seek by himself regardless of your beliefs. In the end your help might actually do the opposite of your intention.


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 23,096
Re: Trying to help a Friend. [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #4083964 - 04/22/05 06:38 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

a part of you is helping a friend
another part of you is an extension of your culture trying to absorb your friend.
with a good sense of humour on all sides, all of you and all of him will get along well.
I hope nobody takes anything too seriously, lower fences and roam freely.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Trying to help a Friend. -> acoustic [Re: acoustic]
    #4083965 - 04/22/05 06:40 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

a part of you is helping a friend
another part of you is an extension of your culture trying to absorb your friend.
with a good sense of humour on all sides, all of you and all of him will get along well.
I hope nobody takes anything too seriously, lower fences and roam freely

(reposted to acoustic as originally meant it as reply to the first post)


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Trying to help a Friend. [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #4083973 - 04/22/05 06:47 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

It is not up to you to decide what he should believe in.

:thumbup:

This is classic (and unseen by the thread-starter) egotism. "Only I know the correct path to God and my friend is a spiritual dunce requiring my assistance."


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Trying to help a Friend. [Re: acoustic]
    #4084019 - 04/22/05 07:50 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Who are you really tying to help then. :smile:


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


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Invisiblepsyka
Praetorian
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Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
Re: Trying to help a Friend. [Re: acoustic]
    #4084054 - 04/22/05 08:35 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

acoustic, perhaps you could help me understand.

What makes man different from animal, in your point of view?

There might be something divine to evolution.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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Offlinegnrm23
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Registered: 08/30/99
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Re: Trying to help a Friend. [Re: psyka]
    #4084257 - 04/22/05 10:41 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

here ya go...
have the ram dass book BE HERE NOW on hand when ya dose, & spend the trip looking at the pictures in the trippy middle section...
(there's some heavy-duty jesus-stuff in that book, as a part of the whole "god-stuff" orientation of the book...

it's like ol' guru bill once said:
there's a seeker born every minute...

~

i will testify to the reality of "spirit"...
what sorta vessel(s) you find to fill/filling/filled up with spirit --- well, that's part of the adventure now, innit?

namaste


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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OfflineJCoke
dream observer
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Registered: 02/17/04
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Re: Trying to help a Friend. [Re: gnrm23]
    #4084306 - 04/22/05 10:56 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

don't use drugs to try and lead your friend to "God"... to me that's just you brainwashing him..he will probally sober up eventually, even if you do get him to believe for a few hours..


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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