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 Mighty Bop Big Boy  Registered: 06/30/01 Posts: 1,994 Loc: Nowhere Last seen: 3 years, 11 months |
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What was up with these people? I remember hearing about this stuff in the news a long time ago and it really freaked me out. Then recently it popped into my head again. Anyways, I went to one of the mirror sites and checked it out. Man, they were going into some deep stuff......What did ya'll think about these weirdos? I would especially like to hear Shroomism's comments.
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Anonymous |
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Refresh my memory as to what the Heaven's gate cult is all about?
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Mighty Bop Big Boy Registered: 06/30/01 Posts: 1,994 Loc: Nowhere Last seen: 3 years, 11 months |
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Damn I thought you of all people would remember them! They were those people who thought that a spaceship (following the Hale-Bopp comet) was coming to take them away to heaven. Their leader was a guy named Marshall Applewhite (or Do). Damn this is weird I'm reading this report about it now and they are talking about those reptilian aliens you were talking about! Report
Anyways, he and like 35 of his followers put on black clothes and Nikes, took phenobarbital, put plastic bags over their heads, got in a bunch of bunkbeds in a Racho Santa Fe, CA mansion, and basically committed a mass suicide. It was all over the news. Some of the guys castrated themselves. Anyways, that's about it, here is a mirror site of the actual website they had....check it out.... Heaven's Gate
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 Swami Eggshell Walker  Registered: 01/18/00 Posts: 15,413 Loc: In the hen house |
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What is to think? These were people of above average intelligence (many in the computer industry) deluded by a charismatic personality to believe Alien fairy tales of salvation.
They committed suicide to shift to the 4th dimension to rendevous with the Mothership hiding behind a comet. Wtih a few details altered, this is the same dangerous BS being spouted on these message boards. Alas, you cannot wake another up. People love to be led and don't care where to, if a pretty enough picture is painted. -------------------- 
The proof is in the pudding.
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Anonymous |
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That's some fucked up shit... I hope they all made it okay.
Time is not the killer... but we are the killers of time. Go here... http://anzwers.org/free/braindrain
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fuzzysquirelnuts veteran Registered: 06/22/01 Posts: 1,150 Loc: souhwest us |
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i joined but they said i wasnt worthy because i wouldnt chop off my balls ...if only i had known i would have done it any way within the next 2 years
i can believe its not butter but why would you do that http://go.to/freesporering -------------------- were all retarded sometimes
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Mighty Bop Big Boy Registered: 06/30/01 Posts: 1,994 Loc: Nowhere Last seen: 3 years, 11 months |
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You don't believe in committing suicide to enter the 4th dimension though, do you Shroomism?
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Anonymous |
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Suicide is by far one of the worst things you can do in life. Not only will you spend the time on the other side in misery but when you reincarnate you have made no progress (except for learning that suicide will get you nowhere). To get into the 4th dimension requires awareness of spirit and life orientation..not ignorance and blind faith.
Edited by Shroomism on 10/01/01 12:00 AM.
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Anonymous |
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>>What is to think? These were people of above average intelligence (many in the computer industry) deluded by a charismatic personality to believe Alien fairy tales of salvation.
They committed suicide to shift to the 4th dimension to rendevous with the Mothership hiding behind a comet. Wtih a few details altered, this is the same dangerous BS being spouted on these message boards. << I love how you compare what I talk about to a mass suicide party of a confused and gullible cult. These people were led by deception and the forces of darkness. Commiting suicide is an act of cowardice and selfishness. I promote wisdom and self-empowerment. No one who is led by the light would take such illogical steps towards ascension. Get your facts straight about who you are talking to before you condemn my words.
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Mighty Bop Big Boy Registered: 06/30/01 Posts: 1,994 Loc: Nowhere Last seen: 3 years, 11 months |
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That's the same way I think about suicide too: a lower level of reincarnation. Leaving out the suicide part, does their train of thought coincide with yours in any way? I know they were talking about the reptilian aliens, evolution, etc., so this makes me curious if they were on the right path.
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Anonymous |
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Ok well I checked out the Heaven's Gate website. As far as the information presented, I think they had a (somewhat) good grip on what is occuring. As far as aliens and evolution, they understand the basic concepts, but lack any real information discerning the path of spirituality. They speak often of "programming" done by society and religion, though this programming obviously still had them in its grip.
Basically, they had a good understanding of the transformation into the 4th density, but commiting suicide eradicated their possibilities for evolving into that dimension at this time. They will reincarnate in the 3rd dimension where they left off, and will continue on their path of learning until they are ready to evolve to the next step. Perhaps they will reincarnate on Earth in enough time for the shift, but it is unlikely. All in all, they knew what was occuring, but the negative/illogical forces had more control over them than they presumed.
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Mighty Bop Big Boy Registered: 06/30/01 Posts: 1,994 Loc: Nowhere Last seen: 3 years, 11 months |
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What is really hilarious is that they thought they could build a spaceship out of concrete and spare tires....I mean, what the hell were they thinking??? Maybe they thought they mastered the concept of anti-gravity or something?
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Swami Eggshell Walker Registered: 01/18/00 Posts: 15,413 Loc: In the hen house |
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I find it funny how you ask how I can possibly compare the Heaven's Gate stories to yours. Geesh, how could I have overlooked the subtle differences between Aliens telepathically communicating from behind a comet to Aliens telepathically communicating from the Pleides. Not to mention salvation and dimensional shifts, whatever the hell that is...
The Heaven's Gate cult and Jonestown cult did not start off even remotely speaking of suicide. All initially spoke of helping people to find the light. You, plus those leaders, speak of 'knowledge" outside of the norm; i.e. you have a special link with god / aliens that the rest of us do not have access to. You claim to be enlightened, the same as the others and set yourself up as spiritual leader; this is called a Messianic complex. Messiahs no longer have to follow the rules of society, because thay are "beyond" that. Hence, the extreme danger of these fanciful stories. So, you want me to get my facts straight? Fine. But so far there has been no facts presented, only the ramblings of a either a budding Sci-Fi novelist or a borderline psychotic. If God or Aliens want to talk to me, I don't need an interpreter. --------------------
The proof is in the pudding.
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Anonymous |
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Do I sense a bit of hostility? Maybe it's just that overactive imagination of mine.
I don't claim to be a messiah, I claim to have access to all the information in the universe. I also teach that anyone can have access to this information. You do not have to go through me to reach enlightenment, that is found within yourself. I am merely a catalyst in which to activate the memories that lie deep within the unconscious. As far as no facts being presented, I suggest you re-evaluate that statement, and take a closer look at some of the things I have written. I can talk about more than aliens and dimensional shifts. If you want to debate quantum physics or how gravity works bring it on. Since you have nothing to argue with me about on the topic of aliens, only lumping me in the same category as cultists and accusing me of spreading misinformation and non scientific new age crap, because you claim I can prove nothing... Then let us change the topic to your field. So would you like to tell me the function of gravity? Or how about dark matter? Or how the sun was formed? What about spontaneous human combustion? Please tell me why the orbit of planets are elliptical. What caused the african coapies? How did oil deposits form under the Earth? Why do the magnetic and geographic poles not align? And last but not least...what caused the Asteroid belt to form? Don't forget we have a $2,000 bet going. Do you have a telescope? I can give you the coordinates for Nibiru, which by current calculations is somewhere near Jupiter.
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Mighty Bop Big Boy Registered: 06/30/01 Posts: 1,994 Loc: Nowhere Last seen: 3 years, 11 months |
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Hey Swami what was the Jonestown cult all about?
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Traveller enthusiast Registered: 04/13/01 Posts: 309 Last seen: 18 years, 8 months |
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Shroomism, I like the stuff you write.
I agree with swami's description though of the writings of a budding sci-fi novelist or borderline psychotic...but I would add the faint possibility that maybe you really do know something. so I have some questions. do you do any sort of physical practices? what can you tell me about the civilisation of ancient china? what about buddha and his technique of meditation? what existed before the big bang, if there was one? and if you have access to all the information in the universe, please tell me something about myself, here or by email. oh and the relationship between gravity and anti-gravity...g and -g.... oh and one thing i'm really interested in: the rainbow serpent. tell me about the rainbow serpent. please. you might well be crazy, but then jesus certainly had messianic delusions didn't he? in fact, he was most probably "schizophrenic", wouldn't you say? LOVE
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Anonymous |
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That's a lot to answer in one post... but I will certainly try to answer most of it for you.
As far as the civilization in Ancient China... there were many civilizations in existence on Earth at that time. Are you reffering to the civilization of around 1500BC? If so, there are several things I can tell you about it.. The orientals first came to Earth from a race that is unkown to even to the aliens. All that they knew about them was that they came from very far away, and were peaceful and kept to themselves mostly. They first settled in Qin Chuan, in central china. They established a society where peace took precedence over everything else. They built many hundreds of pyramids, near the now current city of Xian. The pyramids belonged to an age when the "old emperors" reigned in China, and that the emperors always stressed the fact that they did not originate on Earth. Rather they were the descendants of the "sons of heaven, who roared down to this planet on their fiery metallic dragons". On mainland China there are remnants of ancient civilizations, and the stories of their past glory seems to exceed the humble peasantry of today. Was there a great civilization that fell? Yes, as on all continents during the pole shifts, the devastation is so great that cities essentially are brought to dust. China of the past was in keeping with the Chinese people, who are intelligent and diligent. But their development was no more impressive than what they have today. Of course, there are places where today there is but a village, the inhabitants of which can scarce do more than tend to their fields for survival. And if there are traces that indicate a great city once stood nearby, one could postulate that mankind fell. However, after the pole shifts the few survivors regularly migrate, constantly, seeking to escape the gloom and constant rainfall which is everywhere. Of course the survivors disappeared. They went elsewhere. The big bang? What came before it? Well I am not permitted to tell you *everything* as some things have yet to be discovered. But I will tell you a bit about the process of the big bang. Neither Albert Einstein or Stephen Hawking are correct in their theories on the origin of the Universe, although there are portions of both theories that contain some element of truth. The Universe is not inert, subject to pressures that cause it to explode or compress back into black holes. It is no more inert than your body. It is alive. When I speak of religion, and say we are all parts of the One, that we are within God, and that the Universe is within God, we are referring to this. The natural laws that seem immutable to you are functioning as they are because this is God?s intention at the present time. Much of what you desire to learn will not be available to you until you reach greater spiritual maturity. It is not even on the platter during your next stage of development, 4th Density, the Service-to-Self or Service-to-Other consolidation stage. Following a Big Bang, particular matter forms along the following lines. First, the explosion of matter from a Black Hole, which has grown monstrously large in the eons leading up to a particular Big Bang, is not even. No explosions are even, and all affect different parts of the matter they are affecting at different rates and times. Thus, particular matter coming out of a Big Bang is not even, all the same composition. Just as our Sun, which seems to be of the same consistency, is not homogeneous, and just as the core or magma of your Earth is not homogeneous, just so the matter coming out of a Big Bang quickly becomes differentiated. There are literally millions of factors affecting what a bit of matter will become, and the sum of these factors affect how that bit of matter will interact for it's existence until the next Big Bang it finds itself entangled in. Particles that are fluid, on the move, are by their nature loosely coupling with other particles. Humans are familiar with the coupling that occurs in atoms, the nucleus surrounded by whirring electrons, for instance. Other particles couple in predictable ways. What causes attraction and repulsion between particle types? I will use a common example to explain, as the concepts can get complex. Magnetism happens due to the continuous flow of magnetic particles, a type of the particle we call electrons, but this magnetic flow is not consistent everywhere. It is concentrated where a break in the pattern of electronic orbiting a nucleus allows a mass escape. What are they escaping from? An over-concentration of whatever it is they are made of! In the case of magnetism, magnetic particles are escaping from a press of other magnetic particles, since they couple poorly and seldom, they are readily on the move. All matter seeks a level of homogeneity, and can never achieve it as it is by its nature, coming out of the Big Bang, non-homogeneous with the other particle types. Likewise, attraction is in essence an escape, misinterpreted by the humans who have termed it otherwise. Gravity is nothing more than the effect of returning gravity particles drifting back into a gravitational giant after having been ejected in what we would equate to a laser stream of particles, which burst through rather than push at whatever is in their way to escape. Why do they drift back, and is this not an attraction to return to the gravitational giant they just recently left? As odd as it may sound to those unused to these concepts, these gravity particles are indeed running away from an environment they find clogged with matter composed of element they themselves are heavy in - what humans commonly term the Dark Matter that fills to void of space. They crowd back into what is for them a lesser field, the core of gravitational giants, where they are repeatedly ejected due to this very crowding! Different sections of the Universe have different compositions. By this I mean the elements are found in different proportions and the resultant chemical reactions that ensue therefore have different characteristics. Some worlds have silicon based life. Some suns emit radiation that is poisonous to us. Those environments contain severe dangers, as silicon based microbes are ones our immune system could not begin to muster a defense against. An analogy we could use is the soil across a terrain. One place is acidic and is covered with moss, another has soil that compacts into rock-like hardness, discouraging probing roots. The variables are many, and any horticulturist will tell you that a wildflower taken from one location could not be expected to grow in another. Just so is the Universe, we have discovered, and the mix of elements that compose the soil in this section of the Universe is our niche. Incarnated, we are not allowed, not able, to explore outside this niche. >>oh and the relationship between gravity and anti-gravity<< Gravity differs between objects of different compositions. Like compositions attract each other more, due to the compatibility of their makeup. They have no extraneous dramas to resolve. Metals figure heavily in this, no pun intended, as a magnetic component enters into the equation. Where there is flexibility for the objects to turn, one or both will maneuver such that they are magnetically aligned. This takes time, however slight, and thus an iron ball may appear to fall more slowly in a vacuum than an object of comparable weight that has but a slight magnetic retention. Organic compounds also react to gravity in a different manner than in-organic compounds, and this is due to the complex bonding between the atoms. Bonding involves tying up the electrons, which are used as glue in that they are shared by more than one atom. Thus, organic material in general will not experience the interference that matter with free electrons does during a gravity attraction. Inorganic material in essence takes time out to shed or take on electrons, slowing its movement. In general, the heavier an object, the greater the gravity force generated within it for another object. The gravity force is more than compounded, equivocally, but this fact is lost by those viewing the drama because most of the drama takes place within the object itself. Why would this not be the case? Why would matter only reach out to matter not contiguous, with its attraction, and not matter near at hand? Some call this internal gravity compression, but this is merely gravity working to pull each atom toward the greater bulk, which in the case of an orb, like a Sun or planet, is generally toward the center. As the force of gravity reaches in all directions, the larger or heavier object is emitting more of a come-on than a smaller or lighter object. When several objects are involved in giving each other the come-on, the contention causes all of the bodies to dither, but an equilibrium is established in accordance with the mass and composition of the objects and their distance from each other. Humans find their understanding of gravity to be incomplete because they are not taking into consideration the repulsion force that large bodies, such as planets, generate toward each other. To explain anti-gravity will take some reading, if you wish to do so. Scientists are acutely aware of the attraction force inherent in gravity, as are folks in general. The babe learns about this early, while taking his first few steps. Oops. Ouch! It is assumed that gravity has only an attractive force, and that the planets, in orbit around the Sun, are held in place by their momentum. Does this make sense? What caused the momentum in the first place? Children play with a ball on the end of a string, swinging it around and around their head. As long as the arm is tugging, the ball maintains its orbit, else stops. Why would the planets not drift into the Sun? Are the orbits all that swift so that centrifugal force is extreme? The reason Mankind is Unaware of a repulsive force, also inherent in gravity, is that for this to become evident there must be a semblance of equality in size and weight, i.e. the mass of the objects, and freedom of movement such as exists in space, and lack of undue influence from other nearby objects. Objects on the surface of the Earth have none of these. They are infinitesimal in proportion to the Earth itself, and thus any repulsion the Earth may have toward a tiny speck on its surface is also infinitesimal. Proportionally, its all gravity, a one way trip. The object on the surface, pushing away, is overwhelmed by the Earth's gravitational pull, the attraction. The repulsion force is generated as a result of two bodies exerting a gravitational force on each other. In the case of a tiny object on the surface of the Earth, its gravitational pull on the Earth is scarcely noticed by the Earth. A gnat or mite. A nothing. Where the repulsion force has not been invoked within the Earth by any objects placed on the surface of the Earth, this is in play between the Earth and her Moon. The repulsion force is invoked between objects on the surface of the Earth, incessantly, but this is masked by the intense force of gravity the Earth presents and other factors such as surface tension or friction or chemical bonding so that the repulsion force cannot be recognized. The gravitational force exists first. It is the static condition. The repulsion phenomena only manifests when, as we said, the objects are of equal size, are free to move, and dominate the immediate environment. Where the repulsion force comes to equal the force of gravity by the time the objects in play would make contact, it builds at a rate that differs from gravity. Humans have calculated the force of gravity, which at first we assumed was equal for all objects but lately have come to understand is stronger for larger objects. We have formulas for the force of gravity which have proved accurate on the face of our home planet. These formulas are incomplete, and would not work as expected elsewhere, however. The repulsion force is infinitesimally smaller than the force of gravity, but has a sharper curve so that it equals the force of gravity at the point of contact. For experimental purposes, one would have to be almost at the point of contact for it to come into play at all, and this in an environment where other factors are eliminated or negated. To examine the phenomena, Earth scientists would have to set up a lab in space, far enough away from any planetary body so that free movement is possible. Place two balls in a cage. Put one in motion toward another. Microscopically examine the interchange. They do not touch. They do not bounce off one another. They do not touch. The advent of the space age and the increasing number of UFO sightings have generated intense curiosity about space travel in human scientists. Some cling to the notion that all travel within or against a gravity field must be by propulsion, clinging to known and familiar theories - airplanes lifting off the ground and running parallel as long as the air stream over the wings can be maintained, or rockets sent out and away from the Earth's gravity by propulsion. Space ships, which zip about and hover as though gravity did not exist are clearly not run by propulsion, however, and thus speculation is running rampant. Mankind will not be given the answers he seeks, nor will he be able to arrive at the correct solution based on his own efforts. Human scientists are working and reworking their current concepts, which are fraught with errors, and thus, heading in the wrong directions, they will not succeed. The silliest theories are that space ships indeed use propulsion, but are subtle about it. These theories have the space ships hovering by the same means that hover craft stay above the ground or water, by blowing air out from the bottom of the craft. All this is accomplished, so the theory goes, without disturbing the air space, though this obvious contradiction is never addressed. Sightings where space ships move silently through forests, with never a branch or leaf moving as they pass, would seem to discredit this theory, but the advocates hold firm. This theory is a favorite of some as it allows mankind to be on a technological par with the visitors. A partially correct theory is that space ships generate their own gravity field. This is not so much a theory as an observation, since ships not only hover as though treating the gravity pull of the Earth with disdain, but provide the occupants with their own gravity field. Earth scientists in the employ of MJ12 have first hand knowledge of this, having taken short jaunts in observation ships and having noted that the ground can be in view overhead, yet their feet remain stuck firmly to the floor. Creating one's own gravity field is primarily for comfort, not travel, but it is also a component required for travel. Element 115, a heavy metal Bob Lazar was introduced to, is indeed one of the means to achieve space travel, though not the only means. Element 115 does not in and of itself have magical properties, a fact which should be obvious from the reports leaking out of MJ12 labs. If element 115 had special gravity features, generating its own gravity field without abatement, then all the scientists would find their feet stuck to the container rather than the lab floor. It is not element 115 per se but the structure of its composition that supports other steps in the process, and about this we will say no more. Short cuts, such as space warps, have been discussed for decades as the easy answer. The Universe is circular, so the theory goes, and all one need do to go elsewhere is step back along the circle rather than go the whole way around. This theory is absurd, and doesn't take much to dispute. How does the Universe manage to project itself to its astronomers and the stargazers among its common folk as linear if its actually up there in curves? Is the Universe conducting a massive conspiracy to delude mankind? Star systems that appear to be far away are in fact at a distance, and there are no short cuts, distance wise. Negating the Earth's atmosphere is one step in the process, and as I have mentioned is one of the reasons for generating an internal gravity in a space ship during travel. This is done, however, not to lift off the Earth, but to provide the environment for the next step. Space ships hovering above the Earth are still dealing with the Earth's gravity field, in full. Hovering involves invoking the repulsion force in a controlled manner, and space travel involves turning it off in a controlled manner. Space travel is a irresistible kiss, and a quick kiss, between two gravity attractors. This quick kiss is achieved by turning off the repulsion force between two points, and is a carefully controlled process. As mankind has yet to even accept the existence of a repulsion force, we will hardly arrive at the scheme in the near future. And then, mankind is hampered by all the errors in our existing theories, which are dragged forward as some sort of garbage that can never be discarded, held close to the hearts and minds of their advocates. And the rainbow serpent? Are you speaking of Kundalini energy passing through the chakras? Please be more specific. I will answer more of your questions later, but at this time my hands and brain need a rest. Love and Light
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Anonymous |
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Going back to the topic of Heaven's Gate...... I recieved some information today which I thought I would share.
Scarcely anyone believes, as the leader and follower of Heaven's Gate did, that a UFO was indeed following what was billed as the comet Hale-Bopp, or that they as human beings would be selected out from among the billions for special treatment. What shocked the nation and the world was not so much the absurdity of their beliefs but the extent to which they would go to adhere to them. Incidences such as suicide bombers and soldiers going into battle and even into certain death are not unknown, but behind these actions is something concrete, such as home and family or actual politicians and laws one is in rebellion against. Many church-goers prate the belief they supposedly espouse, but would hesitate to put even their time and discomfort behind them, much less their lives. And those who would discomfit themselves for a belief are sure that their belief is not as silly as Heaven's Gate. However, if one looks at just a few examples from Christian belief - that of the Rapture that many Christians cling to, or the Ascension where Jesus supposedly rose from the dead, or Baptism where splashing a bit of water is supposed to make the difference between a tiny babe going to heaven or hell - one sees that the Heaven's Gate crowd was scarcely alone in their silliness. These beliefs and the actions they generate have no more rationale than the beliefs that the Heaven's Gate crowd held. That said, why did the Heaven's Gate crowd arrive at such an absurd conclusion, and what led them to take the steps they did? When looking to understand why cults do as they do, one should first examine the leaders. Cults are characterized by an isolationist life style, with the flow of information coming only from the leader and this slanted to fit his needs. The psychology that occurs is simply an extension of what goes on in the average family - what father says goes, and he has ownership over his wife and children. Dictated rules seem absurd when one only sees the devotee slavishly following them, and make sense only when one examines the leaders. They are, after all, his rules, created by him to further his comfort and reduce his distress. The sense of possession that prompts a cult leader to order his followers to follow him in death is a factor present in the average household, where it is not unheard of for the husband to threaten to kill his wife if she even thinks about leaving him. The leader of the Heaven's Gate cult was beset with personal anxieties, which are no secret. Ashamed of his homosexual yearnings, he had himself castrated. Guilt often leads one to think of eminent death, the ultimate punishment while simultaneously the ultimate escape, and this too was a theme throughout his life. Riddled with sexual conflicts, he compulsively structured his life to avoid any temptations, and thus the rules against personal interaction and the silly rules about how to slice apples and the like. Had the cult leader espoused the beliefs of an organized religion, where their death was to take them to heaven, they would not have astonished many. That his heaven was a space ship rather than a nebulous place in the clouds put him at odds with what the church teaches, and thus he was considered a kook instead of a deeply religious man!
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Traveller enthusiast Registered: 04/13/01 Posts: 309 Last seen: 18 years, 8 months |
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thank you sir!
actually those foolish human scientists have just recently accepted that there is a repulsive gravitational force! old einstein discovered that his maths only made sense if the universe was either expanding or contracting, so he asked the astronomers of his time...they said no no no the universe is static, unmoving (christians!) so he thought oh well there must be some sort of negative gravity holding it in place then! a few years later some guy called Mr. Hubble showed everyone that in fact the universe was expanding, and einstein was terribly humiliated, saying that it was the worst mistake of his career. but then earlier this year a bunch of astronomers who have been observing supernovas all over the place discovered something very strange... first let's assume, as everyone did before, that gravity is a purely attractive force, thus all the mass in the expanding universe must have accelerated rapidly at first but gradually be slowing down because of everything's attraction to everything else. so in the end everything would slow down, stop, then start accelerating back inwards into a "big crunch" which would be so big and fast that it would cause a massive fission-fusion reaction and boom there's another big bang. right? only these astronomers recently discovered that the universe was expanding rapidly in the beginning, slowed down for a while, and then sped up again!!! so now they accept negative gravity, and believe that all the matter in the universe will keep getting further and further away, all the stars will eventually burn out and everything will just disperse into the infinite darkness that we believe lies beyond the stars. whatever. all sounds very nice but i'm still all for the trees and the forests and exploring my own mind.... ok back to the rainbow serpent. you know about the mayan rainbow serpent pyramids? the mexican god who i know nothing about called Quetzalcoatl who's also a rainbow serpent, the creator of the australian aboriginal's physical universe who was also a rainbow serpent....ummm....i've heard kundalini described as the serpent energy, or the serpent mother or whatever, never the rainbow part though.... and back to the chinese, what about the Daoists? the "immortals" or the "realised masters" the guys who in their meditation discovered the meridians, pathways through which energy flows through the body, leading on to the acupuncture etc of today, you've heard of the I-Ching i assume? wu (void) dividing into yin and yang...etc and what about the vedic culture of ancient india? what about sanskrit and latin.... so many of these old cultures seem to have had these folks living in forests or on mountaintops doing various breathing, physical and mental gymnastics and basically saying the same things about the universe.....again I ask if you practice similar techniques yourself. i'm really rambling on here. oh one more question!! do you talk to your parents about this stuff? what do they think?
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Anonymous |
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I'll answer your questions later tonight when I return from work.
My parents are Christian, and therefore have a very hard time accepting my beliefs.
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gribochek enthusiast Registered: 04/18/99 Posts: 286 Last seen: 22 years, 2 months |
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With all due respect to Shroomism, Traveler, I have to warn you against diving into the realm of his beliefs the way you seem to be doing. Just a little bit of formal knowledge of modern science (and I am not talking about popular representation thereof, I am talking about formal mathematics behind it and such) would tell one how absurd _some_ of his statements are.
Personally, I am playing devils advocate here, because myself I don't put much stock in science. On the other hand, I have had a good deal of formal education in matters such as Einstein's theories and other phisics and coming from that angle Shroomism is, well..., not quite plausible. This, however, is not to say that I am appealing to science or scientifical reasoning as the authoritative and decisive source of truth on these matters. Furthermore, I do firmly believe in doctrines alternative to science which are simply an alternative outlook on the universe (as in the sufi story about the elefant). However, if one is claiming scientific knowledge, he should at least take the time to learn what "scientific" means. I will make a stronger statement now. Shroomism is, technically speaking, a cult leader. He is careful to present himself in such a way as to distinguish himself from a closed-off nature of a cult, and he is careful to keep his statements sounding peaceful on the surface. But make no mistake about it. Doctrines which do not rely on personal experience are cults, because blind belief is the only alternative to personal experience. And make no mistake about these other several points: 1. Claims about others' personal experience do not substitute for personal experience. 2. Some resonance between your own preexisting beliefs and the cultist doctrine does not validate the whole of the cultist doctrine. Look at this from another perspective. "The disaster is coming to you, to be saved you must subscribe to my beliefs, because I KNOW the truth". Do you recognize this? Has this sort of reasoning _ever_ been more then a cult? I must say now this. The nature of this warning is in no way intended to discredit Shroomism as an individual nor do I mean any disrespect to the beliefs he holds. I am here to provide an alternative viewpoint, with understanding that it matterns not a slightest freegin' bit. ---- You punish God, not the other way around.
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Anonymous |
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>.Look at this from another perspective. "The disaster is coming to you, to be saved you must subscribe to my beliefs, because I KNOW the truth". Do you recognize this? Has this sort of reasoning _ever_ been more then a cult?
That's understandable..but look at it from my perspective. The disaster is coming to everyone on Earth, and we all will go through it. There are two options, and excuse me for being blunt..you can either find the creator that resides within everyone and evolve emotionally, spiritually, physically, and mentally, and stay with the Earth as it shifts into a higher frequency..or you can choose to stay in the 3rd dimension. That's fine if you wish to stay in the 3rd dimension, not everyone is ready for the 4th.. but you won't be living on Earth in the 3rd dimension. The 3rd dimension will be wiped clean, same thing that happened with Noah's Ark, for the same reason Atlantis sunk under the ocean, and for the same reason so many ancient civilizations are so hard to find. >>Personally, I am playing devils advocate here, because myself I don't put much stock in science. On the other hand, I have had a good deal of formal education in matters such as Einstein's theories and other phisics and coming from that angle Shroomism is, well..., not quite plausible. This, however, is not to say that I am appealing to science or scientifical reasoning as the authoritative and decisive source of truth on these matters. Furthermore, I do firmly believe in doctrines alternative to science which are simply an alternative outlook on the universe (as in the sufi story about the elefant). However, if one is claiming scientific knowledge, he should at least take the time to learn what "scientific" means. Science...especially human science, is far from perfect. The word itself bring upon images of hundreds of years of ignorant practices. Define "scientific" So I am now a cult leader? Interesting theory. Far be it from me to label myself in such a fashion. What criteria must one fall under in order to be a "cult leader"? If that is how you choose to view me, then I will not try and stop you. Thus far I have been called delusional, psychotic, a budding sci-fi novelist, a danger to others, and suffering from the messiah complex. Now we can add cult leader to the list. I was unaware that it was such a crime to spread truthful information in an attempt to expand consciousness. Well, actually I did.. I knew all about this before I took this job. I was told that I must be prepared to be laughed at, labeled as insane, called a cult leader, etc.. but that is why I took this job in the first place, it's difficult. So go ahead and laugh, call me a danger to society.. I understand your aggressions towards me, and I thank you for them. Just keep in mind that I haven't the slightest malevolent thought dancing around in my mind. I know what I am, and I know what I need to do. My purpose is to release negative emotions from others, to make room for the unconditional love that awaits. Throw your stones, my message remains.
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Traveller enthusiast Registered: 04/13/01 Posts: 309 Last seen: 18 years, 8 months |
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yeah thanks for the warning, but i'm not about to jump into anyones beliefs here. i just think it's interesting and great fun that there are people like this who really do believe this stuff (or do they?).
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MokshaMan enthusiast Registered: 03/12/01 Posts: 280 |
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>>Thus far I have been called delusional, psychotic, a budding sci-fi novelist, a danger to others, and suffering from the messiah complex. Now we can add cult leader to the list.
Look, they're just calling you L Ron Hubbard... that's not so bad is it... is it? Sorry, felt like trying to lighten the mood :). -------------------- Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness. -- George Owell
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Mighty Bop Big Boy Registered: 06/30/01 Posts: 1,994 Loc: Nowhere Last seen: 3 years, 11 months |
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Dag-nab-it Swami what was up with that cal-dern Jonestown cult?
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Traveller enthusiast Registered: 04/13/01 Posts: 309 Last seen: 18 years, 8 months |
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right on shroomie!
again i'll say that i like the way you write, and i agree that from your perspective if you really do know what you claim to know then you've got to tell people about it right? and after all you still have to work within this 19 year old human body right? so good luck to you my friend. i'm always glad to hear the world described in new ways, and so far none of what you've said strikes me as being impossible. Before i was warned against believing you I asked some questions, quite a few questions...i'd still love to hear what you have to say about daoist immortals, the rainbow serpent, the vedas and indian epics like the ramayana (if you know of it - what about hanuman and the monkey people that fought with Rama against Ravana and his demons?)...more when i think of it. I don't believe anything except that there is a body here and "I" seem to be controlling it....
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Swami Eggshell Walker Registered: 01/18/00 Posts: 15,413 Loc: In the hen house |
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I was unaware that it was such a crime to spread truthful information in an attempt to expand consciousness. Well, actually I did..
Now we can add schizophrenic to the list. I was told that I must be prepared to be laughed at, labeled as insane, called a cult leader, etc.. but that is why I took this job in the first place, it's difficult... Throw your stones, my message remains. Plus we can add martyr. There is nothing to distinguish your "message" from all the other voices of wounded children screaming for attention. Note the difference between your message and mine: Shroomism: I have special knowledge and you don't (classic megalomania), but I will share it with you to lead you to the light. Swami: Find your own truth. Which method is enabling and which is disabling? Which is an [u]ego-based[/u] message and which message has nothing to do with the personality of the poster? --------------------
The proof is in the pudding.
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Traveller enthusiast Registered: 04/13/01 Posts: 309 Last seen: 18 years, 8 months |
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dude why are you attacking him like this? sure he's spouting some weird sounding shit but isn't that a good thing? or do you think everyone that believes or thinks they know something others don't should keep their head down and their mouth shut? what if young shroomism is actually some kind of enlightened individual (I am NOT saying that he is, i'm saying "what if")?? jesus was obviously a megalomaniac, buddha wasn't afraid of saying that he had attained complete understanding of reality....all of the great teachers we know of are remembered because they were prepared (because they were KIND enough) to TEACH!! instead of just sitting by themselves in the mountains alone in their own blissful enlightenment.
Shroomism: I have special knowledge and you don't (classic megalomania), but I will share it with you to lead you to the light. Swami: Find your own truth. so far that is the first time i've heard you say that, all you've been saying is "everyone watch out this guy's a psycho". why can't you just relax and let the shroomers talk about their aliens and their 4th dimensions and whatnot....call me a hippy but isn't it all about peace and love and stuff?
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gribochek enthusiast Registered: 04/18/99 Posts: 286 Last seen: 22 years, 2 months |
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Shroomism, like I said, I will not argue your beliefs, because, in all honesty I do not know whether they are true or not. Nor am I calling you psychotic, danger to society or any other of such things. I use the words "cult leader" in a technical sense without attributing any value to it one way or another.
I think that it is possible that you really believe in all of what you say. I even think that there might be some seed of what? truth? to what you say -- well, really, I don't believe in truth at all, I see what I see, blah, blah, blah -- some seed that is of value, let's put it this way, in what you say. Now let me explain something about your doctrine. Once again, upfront, I must emphasize that I am not trying to prove that it is dangerous, psychotic or any other thing like this. Just making some parallels to what history has shown us in the past. In times of The Inquisition horrible things (as we all, I hope, agree) have been done to people. The people who tortured and then burned hundreds of innocent souls, where they animals, I ask? Where they stupid? Where they controlled by some evil force? Well, it is quite clear that they were neither, that they were, in fact, very compassionate and kind. How so, you ask? Well, it is simply because they believed a certain doctrine (Believed, capital B, no doubts, same way we believe that air is essential to survival) that said that Hell is infinitely more horrible then any horrors that can possibly be experienced here on earth. They reasoned, then, primitively speaking, that a sinner is up for a terrible future. And I mean horrific! Well, if I see somebody who is, due to ignorance, making some trouble for himself, it is my duty to help him, right? Now, faced with the horrors of hell, what method is too harsh to be used? None, I say. None at all. If at the last moment of his waking consciousness while burning at the stake the sinner changes his sinful beliefs he is saved, right? Keep following my reasoning now. All of this has started with the Bible! As much as christians may start arguing now, the inquisitors where using the letter of the Bible and their best judgement to do all those horrible things. Yet, Christ, was all about peace, harmony and enlightenment, right? Well, so are you, all about peace, harmony and enlightenment! Except that at some point down the road, either you personally or your followers will forget where they are coming from and start killing, say, cats, believing they are evil alien incarnates. And well may it be that they are, at least mine for sure is, but what does this have to do with enlightenment, peace and harmony? Being afraid of anything, anything at all, for example, being afraid of not being able to get to the 4-th dimention, is not peace and harmony. Peace is when you are NOT afraid. Even if surrounded by evil aliens, peace is not when you know how to kill them, peace is when you know that you shouldn't really bother. ---- You punish God, not the other way around.
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Alone In The Fire Pooh-Bah  Registered: 12/03/00 Posts: 1,004 Loc: vanderbilt unive |
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bwhahahahaha........how can any of you all actually believe a word out of "shroomism"?!?!?!?!.....he does the exact same thing all psychos like the one in waco, jonestown, and haleys comet.....the things he doesnt know/understand are things which he deems "cant be told yet"...all other things are theories which anybody is capable of or just plain research by using such tools as an internet or encyclopedia.....my god some of you all are gullible(and stupid for that matter...)
-------------------- 3DShroom is a bitch
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gribochek enthusiast Registered: 04/18/99 Posts: 286 Last seen: 22 years, 2 months |
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Alone, I am indeed gullible and stupid, thanks for reminding me.
So you understand the psycho's mind so well, yes? You must have even been in one's head. You must then know that feeling of peaceful rightness with which one goes to kill himself knowing without a shadow of doubt that this is for the higher good? You must know the feeling one gets after years of struggling with other's opinions, knowing the futility of it but not being able to stop? You must, know how frightening and scary it is to _really_ question a belief which caused you to kill another person, or, may be just caused you to quit your job. You must then know all those things. Well, good for you. You must be just another Freud or something. ---- You punish God, not the other way around.
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Swami Eggshell Walker Registered: 01/18/00 Posts: 15,413 Loc: In the hen house |
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why can't you just relax and let the shroomers talk about their aliens and their 4th dimensions and whatnot....call me a hippy but isn't it all about peace and love and stuff?
Your intentions are good, but this is not about attacking someone nor taking the fun away. If you read all of my posts, then you know my motivation. I had some friends up in Rajneeshpurham(sp?) in Oregon. They were sure that the Rajneesh was an elnlightened master. EVen when they started carrying automatic weapons around the commune, these lost souls rationalized it. Teh 18 ROlls ROyces were necessary for the Raj - whatever. I have no hostility personally towards shroomism, I just don't want to see people get hurt. WAKE UP AND THINK FOR YOURSELVES! --------------------
The proof is in the pudding.
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Mighty Bop Big Boy Registered: 06/30/01 Posts: 1,994 Loc: Nowhere Last seen: 3 years, 11 months |
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OK I finally found out about the Jonestown cult. A man named Jim Jones from San Francisco brought his followers to South America to continue practicing. Their name was The People's Temple. Eventually this guy thought he was Jesus, etc. and eventually persuaded over 900 people to drink purple Kool-Aid mixed with cyanide, tranquilizers and sedatives. It was one big mass suicide. A US congressman actually went down there to check out the cult before it happened, but he was murdered before he could get back home.
Here is a link to a site with some info....http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~reli291/Jonestown/Jonestown.html
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