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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: a sheltered, spoiled generation [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4077518 - 04/20/05 03:01 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks and thanks. There are few things I get passionate about in this world and life but child rearing is one of them.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: a sheltered, spoiled generation [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4079861 - 04/21/05 01:08 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

you can get a job when your fourteen but you cant get your own place til your 18 since you cant sign the lease... garbage i tell you

treat teens like teens and they will act like teens


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: a sheltered, spoiled generation [Re: fresh313]
    #4079885 - 04/21/05 01:18 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

You can treat a teen like an adult and they'll still act that way.

Regardless of that, they should be held accountable, and be given responsibility to the degree they can demonstrate both (like most things SHOULD BE).


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: a sheltered, spoiled generation [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4079903 - 04/21/05 01:34 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
You can treat a teen like an adult and they'll still act that way.





whats your definition of an adult? i think if a 14 year old has a job and pays for all thier things, they are an adult, and should be treated as such.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: a sheltered, spoiled generation [Re: fresh313]
    #4079910 - 04/21/05 01:44 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

... Someone could be a child of a rich family and not have the need to fulfill the job requirement and yet, still be able to provide such.

I won't choose to specify too much on a definition, as the concept of an "adult" varies. If they can demonstrate a mature mentality, are grounded in their actions/beliefs, have an ability to cope with what befalls them without the need for outside assistance, are accountable for their actions, have the foresight to prevent consequences (and thus covering accountability again, by way of prevention), and are responsible and self sufficient in respects to their circumstances, I'd consider them to be an adult. It's a mentality, more so then it is an action, at least, that is where I place my emphasis.

:shrug: Rather vague, but in application, many "adults" don't fit in my categorization.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: a sheltered, spoiled generation [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4079924 - 04/21/05 01:59 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

they dont have a chance to prove themselves since they will always be regarded as children until they are 18. there is no point for them to act maturely, to be responsible. by the law they are not responsible for their actions, and their word isn't worth the paper its signed on. whats the point in being an adult until you will actually be recognized as such, and have the same opportunities as one.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: a sheltered, spoiled generation [Re: fresh313]
    #4079955 - 04/21/05 02:14 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I agree with you on that, just not that treatement of a teen (not all teens are the same, not much of anything in respects to humans is the same on the basis of their age) as an adult, will result in all teens emulating actions which are deemed as adult.

As for the rest, I believe the whole fucking system needs to be revamped in respects to the "age constant".... as age is a poor determinant of mentality. In all respects such as; driving, drinking, owning property, body mutilation (tattos/piercing/aesthetic surgery), and damn near everything else that ties an age to a mythical level of maturity obtained at said age. It should be on the basis of the individuals ability to function within the confines of a particular situation; one size doesn't fit all, and neither does the current law. I've went drinking with some friends during highschool (9-10th grade) that are more mature then some of the older adults I've drank with, and could handle their alcohol better to boot. A lot of the 21 year old's I've met aren't even mature enough to handle their booze, both physically, and mentally... it's a result of being sheltered then given something as the law suggests they're capable of dealing with a situation on the basis of their time on Earth. :shrug: Doubt it's going to change, we're in too deep as it is.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: a sheltered, spoiled generation [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4079969 - 04/21/05 02:22 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

and the brain is evolving into 'higher' functioning during this period, it probably just says fuck it, like the kids do.  :wink:


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Offlinea_h_w
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Re: a sheltered, spoiled generation [Re: Icelander]
    #4080097 - 04/21/05 04:32 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I share your views somewhat. It's interesting that because of phyto estrogens in the environment young girls are coming into puberty earlier. Seems things are getting pulled in two directions here. Nature vs nuture?




actually I saw a documentary on a scientific study on girls puberty, that concluded that the first menstruation and the start of puberty happens when a girl gets to an exact weight which I don't recall. so one thing that is happening is that our children are a lot fatter this days.

about the main topic:

I had to fight my way out of that shelter to face life and start living for real. Everyone should be out of their parents house by the end of high school. the last three years at high school should already include a part-time remunerated activity and at college this should be 50/50. unfortunately education and the real world are getting more and more apart, which promotes the evasion from the education system and the frustration of people that can't do much with their degree. that's why every job ad around here requests 2-3 years minimum experience.


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Invisiblemoog
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Re: a sheltered, spoiled generation [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4080685 - 04/21/05 10:13 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I thought this thread could tackle both the sheltering and spoiling together, because the way I see it, they go hand in hand, together creating a strange symbiosis. And this combination is what I think causes a lack of trust between adolesents and their parents. Parents don't trust their teenagers to be responsible, because they don't believe teens can be trusted. But if the parents would just give them an oppurtunity to be responisble, this will increase the bond of trust between parent and teenager.

I agree with everything you said, especially about uncomfortable subjects. Yes there are awkward moments in parenting. That's no reason to avoid them though. Taboo subjects need to be discussed, as soon as the kid is at the age to understand them. Otherwise they learn about stuff from the media and their peers and get all sorts of mixed messages about what to do.


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Invisiblemoog
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Re: a sheltered, spoiled generation [Re: fresh313]
    #4080716 - 04/21/05 10:25 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

"whats your definition of an adult? i think if a 14 year old has a job and pays for all thier things, they are an adult, and should be treated as such."

This is the other problem I see. Society wants to divide people into children and adults, with nothing in between. This is absolute BS. It's not like you're a child one day and on a given birthday you become an adult. There is a subjective gray area in between, of a few years, where you're neither a child nor an adult. Yes, that's right, it's possible to be neither. Adolescents should be treated as adolescents. They should be able to handle an increasing amount of responsibility as they feel comfortable with it, but they usually aren't ready to handle the full responsibility of being an adult living on their own until around the age of 16-18. Nor should they be treated like children, being distrusted by parents and teachers and thus not given enough responsibility. This leads to both spoiling and sheltering, and when the time comes to be on their own at college or whatever, the person is still going to feel like a child, unsure of himself.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: a sheltered, spoiled generation [Re: fresh313]
    #4080784 - 04/21/05 10:43 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

fresh313 said:
you can get a job when your fourteen but you cant get your own place til your 18 since you cant sign the lease... garbage i tell you

treat teens like teens and they will act like teens




At 15 you can go to the courts and become an emancipated youth. There are kids younger then that making it on their own due to "necceity as they are run aways from child abuse or neglect". Again, even if it's not legal it happens. Thats we need more open talk and less taboo in the closests. A 13 year old girl shouldn't have to sell her body to eat to protect herself from abusive parents.

If I ever win a mega whopo lottery, I want to open a place for such runaway kids where they can be cared for in a safe loving environment while they finish their education.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: a sheltered, spoiled generation [Re: fresh313]
    #4081547 - 04/21/05 02:19 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

fresh313 said:
and the brain is evolving into 'higher' functioning during this period, it probably just says fuck it, like the kids do.  :wink:




:lol: If we can't determine why it isn't applicable for everyone, and if it's a generalized difference for individual's, so to should the law be in way of it's stemming of rights associated with age.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineHahzist
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Re: a sheltered, spoiled generation [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4082852 - 04/21/05 08:25 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I agree with you moog. But I think a little differently, im almost 20 and it seems to me like my generation was the last before all of the bs started happening. It does have a lot to do with technology. Were advancing so fast. When I was a kid I played outside ALL the time with my friends. We had nintendo, and we usually played that around 7 when it was time to come in. I got 2 little bros and an older bro so i can see the big difference. Kids dont play outside as much if at all anymore.

I think this is bad because instead of kids going out and using their imagination to have fun, they are sitting around using technology to do their thinking for them. Playing video games, going on the internet. Internet and TV can be very informative, but I still dont see the imagination being used like it was for me when I was a kid. Honestly... I have noticed a huge difference in creativity between my older bro and i and my two younger ones. But at the same time they are straight A students, which was unheard of for us.


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OfflineKalix
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Re: a sheltered, spoiled generation [Re: Hahzist]
    #4082897 - 04/21/05 08:38 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

My dad went on the run from the law, for growing marijuana medicinally, when I was 13 years old.. I've been working full-time jobs since then, to help support my family. I stopped going to High School, as a Sophomore, and I haven't learned any amazing lessons in responsibility. I am about $10,000 in debt from doing stupid shit like driving w/out insurance. I'm 21 years old. If you want to be responsible, and also educated, education is probably the best row to hoe. For one thing you make a lot more money, and can be a lot more responsible for yourself, and the people you care about. Right now I work on an organic farm full-time for $8.00 an hour. I'm going to start going to community college, for college transferable credits. I can't get financial aid, because of a psilocybin felony. I am planning on working REALLY hard, to work my way through college, and go to UH for a doctorate in ethnobotany.

I guess to sum up what I'm trying to say.. You have to find responsibility on your own, you can do it without a job, with large debt, or working full time. If you find things that are bratty or spoiled about yourself it's up to you to change them. Every generation
has it's share of wastrels.. If you don't want to be one, only you can change yourself...


--------------------


My Unitarian Jihad Name is: The Shotgun of Sweet Reason


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: a sheltered, spoiled generation [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4085499 - 04/22/05 03:32 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

its as easy as a black person trying to get emancipated from slavery

i like your runaway shelter idea, the kids should have a pay a little rent each month, so they dont feel like they are being given a handout, they want to feel like they are making it on thier own

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
Quote:

fresh313 said:
you can get a job when your fourteen but you cant get your own place til your 18 since you cant sign the lease... garbage i tell you

treat teens like teens and they will act like teens




At 15 you can go to the courts and become an emancipated youth. There are kids younger then that making it on their own due to "necceity as they are run aways from child abuse or neglect". Again, even if it's not legal it happens. Thats we need more open talk and less taboo in the closests. A 13 year old girl shouldn't have to sell her body to eat to protect herself from abusive parents.

If I ever win a mega whopo lottery, I want to open a place for such runaway kids where they can be cared for in a safe loving environment while they finish their education.




Edited by fresh313 (04/22/05 03:45 PM)


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: a sheltered, spoiled generation [Re: fresh313]
    #4085521 - 04/22/05 03:41 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I'm just glad I am past 21 and have it all over with.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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