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InvisibleFizikz
Not a real person
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Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 370
Why are they illegal??? I'll tell you
    #4070334 - 04/18/05 10:51 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

   
    Westerners do not accept the existence of conscious processes for which they have no operational term. The attitude which is prevalent is: - if you can't label it, and if it is beyond current notions of space-time and personality, then it is not open for investigation. Thus we see the ego-loss experience confused with schizophrenia. Thus we see present-day psychiatrists solemnly pronouncing the psychedelic keys as psychosis- producing and dangerous."-Lama Anagarika Govi
:thumbup:


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OfflineRoseM
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Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,303
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Re: Why are they illegal??? I'll tell you [Re: Fizikz]
    #4070347 - 04/18/05 10:55 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Heh, hard to argue.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Why are they illegal??? I'll tell you [Re: Fizikz]
    #4070571 - 04/18/05 11:47 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Um, don't forget the monetary, religious, and projected morality aspects of it.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineRoseM
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Registered: 09/24/03
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Re: Why are they illegal??? I'll tell you [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4070600 - 04/18/05 11:53 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I don't think the Lama did.


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Fiddlesticks.



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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Why are they illegal??? I'll tell you [Re: Rose]
    #4070651 - 04/19/05 12:02 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Perhaps the "Lama" just didn't feel like posting the real reasons.

As everything presented in terms of reasoning is present in one form or another already, through legal means.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineRoseM
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Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,303
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Re: Why are they illegal??? I'll tell you [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4070684 - 04/19/05 12:09 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Let's ask the Lama!


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Fiddlesticks.



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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Why are they illegal??? I'll tell you [Re: Fizikz]
    #4070701 - 04/19/05 12:12 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, that could be it. But there is nothing ego-less about that explanation, all it aims to do is say those that alter their conscious is somehow above and beyond those that don't.

In my opinion, its simple. They truly think it harms people. Let's face it, drug altered consciousness hasn't formulated anything of significance that could benefit humanity (besides PCR of course).

On the otherhand drugs cause a lot of problems for people, which I don't think need to be mentioned. For many, the choice is clear and it isn't about stifling spirituality, its doing what they think is best for society.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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OfflineRoseM
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Registered: 09/24/03
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Re: Why are they illegal??? I'll tell you [Re: looner2]
    #4070727 - 04/19/05 12:19 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:Let's face it, drug altered consciousness hasn't formulated anything of significance that could benefit humanity (besides PCR of course).





I'd say the biggest advances in the computer age have been made by druggies and ex-druggies. Acid made the internet!




--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleDark_Star
Loose as the Juice
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Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 30,238
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Re: Why are they illegal??? I'll tell you [Re: Rose]
    #4070758 - 04/19/05 12:25 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Acid also helped to make incredible music, as well as incredible exhanced experiences when listening to it while dosed. LSD has produced free thinking and lots of creativity.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Why are they illegal??? I'll tell you [Re: Dark_Star]
    #4070793 - 04/19/05 12:34 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Was it acid, or was it the individuals who took it? Some of them more then likely believe in god, yet for some reason god isn't attributed to the works performed through them. What about all the failures as a result of LSD use who succumb to suicide, and delusions?

I wouldn't give the drug the credit. Acid isn't conscious in any form, sure it works on it, but your attributing everything as a result of it.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineRoseM
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Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,303
Loc: Mod not God Flag
Last seen: 4 days, 9 hours
Re: Why are they illegal??? I'll tell you [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4070832 - 04/19/05 12:40 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

You said:

Quote:

looner2 said:Let's face it, drug altered consciousness hasn't formulated anything of significance that could benefit humanity (besides PCR of course).





You're changing your own subject.

We are discussing drug altered CONSCIENCESNESS... not the drug itself. And drug altered consciousness HAS changed the world in many ways.

The people who took drugs were effected by the drugs they took.

In fact, consumers benefit from ideas created by the drug altered consciousness every single day.

Also, commercials target the druggie counterculture ALL THE TIME. Ever seen a Late Night, Taco Bell add?

Drugs have changed the world, the things we use, and the way things are sold. Capitalists get it... why doesn't the government?


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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Invisibletrick

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 1,059
Loc: unknown
Re: Why are they illegal??? I'll tell you [Re: looner2]
    #4070931 - 04/19/05 01:02 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
Yeah, that could be it. But there is nothing ego-less about that explanation, all it aims to do is say those that alter their conscious is somehow above and beyond those that don't.

In my opinion, its simple. They truly think it harms people. Let's face it, drug altered consciousness hasn't formulated anything of significance that could benefit humanity (besides PCR of course).

On the otherhand drugs cause a lot of problems for people, which I don't think need to be mentioned. For many, the choice is clear and it isn't about stifling spirituality, its doing what they think is best for society.




Laughable. Shamanism in indigenous cultures. I also firmly believe that hallucinogens could have been a force behind the creation of religion.


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Why are they illegal??? I'll tell you [Re: trick]
    #4072112 - 04/19/05 12:27 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)


Laughable. Shamanism in indigenous cultures. I also firmly believe that hallucinogens could have been a force behind the creation of religion.


What's laughable?

I think believing shamanism has a smidgeon of significance in this world is hilarious!


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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Offlinehydropete
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Registered: 04/18/05
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Re: Why are they illegal??? I'll tell you [Re: Rose]
    #4072168 - 04/19/05 12:42 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

nooooooooo they are banning them in england i have only taken them three times and i love them i wana take them every week there has to be something we can do are there any shroom heads in london who wana get together in parliment square for a huge protest we can get hippies and stoners to come too:mad:


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Registered: 03/06/02
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Re: Why are they illegal??? I'll tell you [Re: looner2]
    #4073420 - 04/19/05 06:19 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Traditional knowledge is more powerful than you realize.


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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
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Re: Why are they illegal??? I'll tell you [Re: Fizikz]
    #4073772 - 04/19/05 08:18 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Fizikz said:
   
    Westerners do not accept the existence of conscious processes for which they have no operational term. The attitude which is prevalent is: - if you can't label it, and if it is beyond current notions of space-time and personality, then it is not open for investigation. Thus we see the ego-loss experience confused with schizophrenia. Thus we see present-day psychiatrists solemnly pronouncing the psychedelic keys as psychosis- producing and dangerous."-Lama Anagarika Govi
:thumbup:




I would have to disagree here.  The majority of westerners do not look that deeply into it when they decide drugs are bad.  You are giving them too much credit and the reality is much more simple.


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OfflineBloodNOil
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Registered: 10/09/03
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Re: Why are they illegal??? I'll tell you [Re: Catalysis]
    #4080555 - 04/21/05 11:36 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Drugs are bad because Officer McFeely told us so in grade school.


--------------------
It's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain!


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: Why are they illegal??? I'll tell you [Re: BloodNOil]
    #4081735 - 04/21/05 05:18 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Did he touch you?


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InvisibleTHEDANGLER
The Mushroom Tip
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Registered: 11/01/04
Posts: 312
Re: Why are they illegal??? I'll tell you [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4082743 - 04/21/05 09:41 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

only his tongue to my butt....WISH UPON A BROWN STAR>>>>


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TONS OF SPORES TO TRADE PM ME!!!!


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Why are they illegal??? I'll tell you [Re: Fizikz]
    #4083908 - 04/22/05 05:20 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Westerners do not accept the existence of conscious processes for which they have no operational term. The attitude which is prevalent is: - if you can't label it, and if it is beyond current notions of space-time and personality, then it is not open for investigation. Thus we see the ego-loss experience confused with schizophrenia. Thus we see present-day psychiatrists solemnly pronouncing the psychedelic keys as psychosis- producing and dangerous."
-Lama Anagarika Govi




I'm sorry to disagree, Wise One.

Psychedelics are illegal because many people in all cultures are utter fuckoffs.

Read "BEST TRIPPING MANUAL" linked in my sig. Now that was how it was until 1959, way before the hippies fucked it up.

----------------------------------------------------

What happened with LSD in the 1960s?

-People were dosing eachother without consent.

-Dr Leary encouraged swarms of young people to drop out of the education system, shun all societal responsibilities and go fuck in the park with a girl named Groovy to birth a kid named Sunbeam.
By the fruits ye shall know them: isn't present day America wonderful now it is ruled by the Love Generation? War On Drugs & all..

-People injected LSD to get high faster.

-People went on continuous binges and ended up with flashbacks and lisps and confusion and inability to track fast objects with their eyes while sober.

-People were getting into severe anguish and anxiety and this triggered psychosis in the susceptible and the major hospitals had to take care of "temporary insanities" every weekend

-Most hippies used "consciousness expansion" as a justification to get high on what they felt was a cartoonshow in their head, and approached with the same respect.

-When LSD and Psilocybin were RCs dr. Leary tried to order the equivalent of twenty metric tons of shrooms from Sandoz, the most respectable pharmaceutical company of the world, without ANY permit and on a cheque that bounced :mad2:

-The US Gov't was weaponizing LSD for chemical warfare and the CIA investigated it as an interrogation/torture agent.

---------------------------------------------------

So, Wise One, I believe psychedelics are illegal because society at large has demonstrated clearly and without a doubt that they were unable to handle legal LSD.

I like to add to that the way in which RCs nowadays are abused.
And how kids take five tablets of ecstasy every week until they are fucked up and then go on a crusade to show the world the evils of ecstasy :mad:

Illegalisation as it exists nowadays is completely wrong, but so is complete legalisation without any control measures to prevent the irresponsible and weak from doing harm through the abuse of them.

If Psychedelics were dosed together with a hundred milligrams of responsible conduct and two hundred miligrams of knowledge and preparation they would be a bigger pill to swallow, but only then could legalisation be even considered.


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