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InvisibleThorA
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Vendors please check this out.
    #407014 - 09/27/01 10:59 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

I was notified by someone recently about a vendor who offered him money to have his link in his signature :smile:

Check out this site, especially if you are sporeworks (look under supplies), sporechicks (look at grow kits), and PF should have some words to all the pictures in the website.

It worries me that this site hasn't made themselves known here at the Shroomery, they obvioulsy visit here and are scouting posters to get their URL put in signatures of posters who post a lot.

I think all vendors should look this over. Let me know what you think.

_______________________________________
Webmaster of the Shroomery
thor@shroomery.org
http://www.shroomery.org

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Anonymous

Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: Thor]
    #407143 - 09/28/01 12:57 AM (22 years, 9 months ago)

So whats the site?

And it doesn't surprise me that vendors ask customers to sport ads. The SporeLab has NEVER asked or insisted customers do this but is obvious some do.

It's amazing how desperate some people are. I won't mention any names, they know who they are.

Take a trip to the Spore Lab @:
http://www.SporeLab.com
email: getspores@sporelab.com

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InvisibleThorA
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Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: ]
    #407162 - 09/28/01 01:17 AM (22 years, 9 months ago)

Ooops, sorry my bad....

http://www.mushroom-mycology-shop.cjb.net/

_______________________________________
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http://www.shroomery.org

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Invisible40oz
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Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 30,119
Loc: Sandy Eggo. Ca.
Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: Thor]
    #407196 - 09/28/01 02:03 AM (22 years, 9 months ago)

thor, would you be so kind as to not beat around the bush...
....if there is any foul biz practices, it should not only be brought to the vendors attn., but us as a community....thank you.

~fortyounces2freedom~ & ~disconnectedhaze~

get all your supplies AND spores at a discount price!!! CLICK HERE!!!


--------------------
:pacman: - - - -  :pill: :mushroom2: :pill2: :mushroom2: :regularshroom: :mushroomgrow: :pill: :pill2: :mushroom2: :poison:

:sun::heart::sun:

tiny_rabid_birds said:
"your avatar is dirty."

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Anonymous

Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: Thor]
    #407238 - 09/28/01 03:14 AM (22 years, 9 months ago)

Post Deleted a la Obscurity

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Anonymous

Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: ]
    #407239 - 09/28/01 03:17 AM (22 years, 9 months ago)

Post Deleted a la Obscurity

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Invisibleralphster44
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Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: ]
    #407268 - 09/28/01 05:26 AM (22 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by administrator.


--------------------
www.RalphstersSpores.com

WE SHIP TO CANADA FROM WITHIN CANADA :smile:

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OfflinepsilocyberV
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Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: Thor]
    #407295 - 09/28/01 06:51 AM (22 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by administrator.

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InvisibleUna
controlleddemolition

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 970
Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: psilocyber]
    #407311 - 09/28/01 07:19 AM (22 years, 9 months ago)

i emailed the owner this morning, guess it helped......

Need spores? We got spores!
Visit MUSHMUSH
for the highest quality exotic mushroom spores.
info@mushmush.nl


--------------------
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Offlinetrade omlet
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Registered: 04/05/00
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Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: Una]
    #407328 - 09/28/01 08:02 AM (22 years, 9 months ago)

site says - site content is currently unavailable.
I wonder if anyone ever bought anything from them.


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Invisibleralphster44
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Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: trade omlet]
    #407341 - 09/28/01 08:34 AM (22 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by administrator.


--------------------
www.RalphstersSpores.com

WE SHIP TO CANADA FROM WITHIN CANADA :smile:

For your safety and security, we have a Secure Website.
Also for your security, we will not take your credit card number.
Your security and safety is of utmost importance to us.

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InvisibleNuShroomPharmerII
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Post deleted by users_request [Re: psilocyber]
    #407506 - 09/28/01 12:41 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)


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InvisibleThorA
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Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: NuShroomPharmerII]
    #407520 - 09/28/01 12:58 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

lol, the picture under agar has the Sporeworks picture, and the bottle says 'sporeworks' on it! I'd say that was inapropriate.

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Invisibleoscill8
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Registered: 02/26/01
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Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: NuShroomPharmerII]
    #407524 - 09/28/01 12:59 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

well, when i emailed netfirms (the sites webhost) i did not list any vendors here in my TOS violation complaint, but the pics they took off of fungi.com (stamets' site). these are definitely copyrighted. but sporeworks are as well, as they identify them as such (i didnt want to list any vendors here in lodging my complaint against this guy, and stamets is pretty untouchable as far as having "normal" products).

copyright is secured upon creation of the work, not upon registration with the copyright office. you can and should register copyrights in some cases, but not doing so is NOT a bar to the creation of the copyright. there are definite "perks" to registering a copyright with them... it can establish "proof" as to ownership, it is generally required before a court claim can be filed, can increase the awarded amount of a successful law claim in court when filed within a statutory period, etc... if sporeworks says it is copyrighted on their page, (which it is), the images and works within are copyrighted and protected by law from other websites taking them wholesale off the site.

plus, if you looked closely at this site's supplies page, they had a pic of the sporeworks' agar- WITH THE SPOREWORKS LOGO ON IT! so, i think we all know whom the pics were lifted from, and who was using them fraudulently.

there is no need for this to be the start of some bickering, i just wanted you to know that not only what that site was doing was legally wrong, it was also pretty immoral (a greater crime in my book).

***Please Donate Blood. American Red Cross***


--------------------
? oscill8 2001, 2002
"Any data submitted to Shroomery.org becomes our property"

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InvisibleNuShroomPharmerII
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Post deleted by users_request [Re: oscill8]
    #407587 - 09/28/01 02:10 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)


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Offlinedarkfly
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Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: NuShroomPharmerII]
    #407594 - 09/28/01 02:17 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

What about using Digimarc on your pictures, would that hold up in a court of law?

darkfly

-- too much trippin and my soul is worn thin


--------------------
Everything Is Blue In This World. The Deepest Shade Of Mushroom Blue.

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InvisibleRyche HawkV
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Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: NuShroomPharmerII]
    #407632 - 09/28/01 03:08 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

I had a nice long talk a while back with a copyright attorney. He said once you publish (post)a picture to the net, such as on your business website, or in any other publications such as magazines, that is a legal form of copyright.

-Peace-
www.thehawkseye.com
Sacred Mushroom Spores
www.thehawkseye.com/dbkits/dbkits.html
Dung Brothers Premium Mushroom Compost Kits


--------------------
-Peace-

High Quality MUSHROOM SPORES and CULTURES  for microscopy at www.muShrooms.com



muShrooms.com is the new web site of
www.thehawkseye.com

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InvisibleCaptain Jack
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Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: NuShroomPharmerII]
    #407645 - 09/28/01 03:32 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

I've never researched it specifically for pictures on the internet, but I can compare it to this:

If you write a song, it's copyrighted. Boom. Of course, if nobody's heard it you'd be hard pressed to prove it, but it's there.

http://www.captainjackmusic.com


--------------------
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Captain Jack has been hailed as a brilliant scholar, discredited as a brilliant fraud, and mistaken for a much taller man on several occasions.

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InvisibleNuShroomPharmerII
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Post deleted by users_request [Re: Ryche Hawk]
    #407659 - 09/28/01 03:46 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)


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Offlinedarkfly
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Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: NuShroomPharmerII]
    #407671 - 09/28/01 03:54 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

Well, if you run a photo that has been digimarc'd in photoshop or any other digimarc detector, it will tell you who originally created or published the picture by looking up your Digimarc ID that you must register for before using it in the first place.

darkfly

-- too much trippin and my soul is worn thin


--------------------
Everything Is Blue In This World. The Deepest Shade Of Mushroom Blue.

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Offline3DSHROOM
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Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: NuShroomPharmerII]
    #407684 - 09/28/01 04:14 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

http://www.loc.gov/copyright/circs/circ1.html

HOW TO SECURE A COPYRIGHT
Copyright Secured Automatically upon Creation

The way in which copyright protection is secured is frequently misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright. (See following Note.) There are, however, certain definite advantages to registration. See "Copyright Registration."

Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created, and a work is "created" when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time. "Copies" are material objects from which a work can be read or visually perceived either directly or with the aid of a machine or device, such as books, manuscripts, sheet music, film, videotape, or microfilm. "Phonorecords" are material objects embodying fixations of sounds (excluding, by statutory definition, motion picture soundtracks), such as cassette tapes, CDs, or LPs. Thus, for example, a song (the "work") can be fixed in sheet music (" copies") or in phonograph disks (" phonorecords"), or both.



________________________
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If we change anything, the users object.


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Offline3DSHROOM
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Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: 3DSHROOM]
    #407689 - 09/28/01 04:18 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

COPYRIGHT REGISTRATION
In general, copyright registration is a legal formality intended to make a public record of the basic facts of a particular copyright. However, registration is not a condition of copyright protection. Even though registration is not a requirement for protection, the copyright law provides several inducements or advantages to encourage copyright owners to make registration.

________________________
Webmaster of the Shroomery

3dshroom@shroomery.org
http://www.shroomery.org
This is an object-oriented system.
If we change anything, the users object.


--------------------
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InvisibleNuShroomPharmerII
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Post deleted by users_request [Re: Captain Jack]
    #407696 - 09/28/01 04:26 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)


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InvisibleNuShroomPharmerII
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Post deleted by users_request [Re: Captain Jack]
    #407711 - 09/28/01 04:44 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)


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Offlinedarkfly
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Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: NuShroomPharmerII]
    #407725 - 09/28/01 05:09 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

Wouldnt a computer/website fall under this.

"Copies" are material objects from which a work can be read or visually perceived either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.

darkfly

-- too much trippin and my soul is worn thin


--------------------
Everything Is Blue In This World. The Deepest Shade Of Mushroom Blue.

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Invisibleoscill8
*bondage fairy*
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 1,215
Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: darkfly]
    #407767 - 09/28/01 06:01 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

nushroom.while i dont doubt what you do in the least, you are mistaken if you dont think the very brief post i made is correct. i would point you 1st to title 17 of the us code - copyrights. further, 3d has already listed the link i would point you to as well; its the federal copyright office website he's quoting from (if no one bothered to look at the link) that says copyright is created upon creation of the work (as well as the code itself). so that question is over. also, keep in mind that what encompasses a "work" is to be construed very broadly in my following ramblings...

as far as your post to ryche- you are correct as to the court part. you wanna take someone to court and get damages, attys fees, and statutory fines for infringing your copyright? first the work must be registered (generally) with the copyright office before you may file a motion in court. this process will likely be used as a finding of fact within a trial- as the copyright office will determine the true ownership of the copyright- what would mainly be left to the ct would be to determine damages. but- to have a work (which has been copyrighted) removed from online publications, - you dont have to go to court for that. why? theres caselaw which says that ancillary providers of works used without permission that are copyrighted (specifically, a webhost which allows copyrighted material to be posted to their site by one of their users) are liable as well as the original violator to the copyright holder for copyright infringement, once they have been notified as such. so website providers once notified will remove the user/materials/etc because they dont want to be liable to the copyright holder. ook in any webhost terms of service youll find its a TOS violation to take copyrighted works, and this becomes the end of their account. it is not a legal route in the primary sense of the word, but the threat of legal force (in a secondary manner) will make servers remove the images and perhaps the user, as private actors (the courts/law dont have to get involved here). i believe the case was netcom v (? some christian group. i cant remember off the top of my head, but im sure you can read it at findlaw.com). again, the issue is that copyright is secured at the moment of creation- but if you want nice things like the law to back you up, you have to register it. this is not to say it must be registered before the offense for it to be valid (and not a bar to court), but you have to register it before you go to court.

as far as "digimarc"- im not familiar but i can infer that this is some sort of photo software, about uploading things to the web. (?) in any case, uploading it and making the pics public on the web, as well as the requisite copyright tags, is "proof" (facts) which will be a part of the case (if it went to court). the publication of works is a factor in establishing the copyright, but is not required (is not a bar to having the case held up in court).

as far as "real life" - copyright protections are "real life". your scenarios about stealing songs are pretty far from "real life". musicians often employ copyright schemes to protect their works. something that may garner cash in the future will often be registered at the copyright office. but there are other methods to determine the true owner of the copyright- "poor man's copyrights" are used quite often in the music industry. (where a musician mails a copy of his song thru the postoffice, to himself, and the letter remains sealed.) this is used as "proof"- facts which can be admitted into evidence- as to the real owner of the rights.) but again, copyright is created once the work is created, and runs with the owner til 70 years after his.her death! now, ownership of songs is pretty different than illustrative pics on a website- because whereas a pic lifted from a site may cause damage to the original business' copyright holder (thru lost sales, etc.), a song in and of itself is the primary source of cash (where a pic lifted wholesale is not). theyre not treated differently in copyright law, but one creator has far more impetus to register a song or establish ownership than another, because the gap between profits is huge. (thats why the analogy to songs and original works that may lead to $ may be leading you astray).

as far as "new creations", and vanilla ice. generally, a "transformative" work is within the boundaries of "fair use"- fair use is when someone can use a copyrighted work. the work, once changed into something wholesale and different is then in the realm of "fair use", and copyright protections are no longer implicated. if i took a recording of "i touch myself", took the name off the album and put my own- without changing anything- then the copyright protections would kick in. if i tranformed a 50's bubblegum pop song into a rap parody, then it falls within fair use. the case i am referring to was roy orbison's... damn, i dont remember the name of the song. but again, go to findlaw and search roy orbison, you can read about fair use and transforamtive works there.

as far as a pic published to the net- it seems your argument centers around the definition of "works", and you say website photos are not included. well, yes they are. the title's definition of "work" is meant to encompass tangible forms of expression. and they are also supposed to be read VERY broadly, in favor of the owner who claims it is a work. a photo is- digitized to a website or not- a work. websites are forms of expression, in a tangible form, which can be recognized not only as a work of the creator but also serves as proof in and of itself of whom the "work" (whether it be pics, words, etc on a website) belongs to. thats why theyre included.

***Please Donate Blood. American Red Cross***


--------------------
? oscill8 2001, 2002
"Any data submitted to Shroomery.org becomes our property"

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Invisibleoscill8
*bondage fairy*
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 1,215
Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: oscill8]
    #407776 - 09/28/01 06:09 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

ps. please no one take my posts as "sound legal advice". thats my own disclaimer when posting stuff like this. im just words on a screen, sometimes a grrl who doesnt go to class much- but this is not legal advice from a lawyer whos passed the bar in her state (yet). and i represent it to be nothing more than my opinion as a poster to this board, i do not represent i am a lawyer or am in any way competant to give legal advice for anyone to rely on. thanks !

osc.

***Please Donate Blood. American Red Cross***


--------------------
? oscill8 2001, 2002
"Any data submitted to Shroomery.org becomes our property"

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Offline3DSHROOM
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Registered: 04/19/99
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Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: oscill8]
    #407786 - 09/28/01 06:15 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

I love you ocill8 :wink:

________________________
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This is an object-oriented system.
If we change anything, the users object.


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Invisibleralphster44
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Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: 3DSHROOM]
    #407799 - 09/28/01 06:24 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by administrator.


--------------------
www.RalphstersSpores.com

WE SHIP TO CANADA FROM WITHIN CANADA :smile:

For your safety and security, we have a Secure Website.
Also for your security, we will not take your credit card number.
Your security and safety is of utmost importance to us.

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InvisibleThorA
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Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: ralphster44]
    #407806 - 09/28/01 06:33 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

I should hire her as the Shroomery's personal legal consultant :smile:

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OfflineJammer
Computers areMORE Addictive!

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Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: NuShroomPharmerII]
    #407927 - 09/28/01 10:44 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

Being a muscian I have read a little on American copyright laws, allthough it has been a few years. My understanding is that if, for example, a writer writes the lyrics to a song and clearly displays the correct date and there full name that it's defensable in court. The "(c)" is leagly interperted to show a claim to be "copyrighted". Obviosly regestering something with the Us patt/copyright office makes things much easier in a court of law. However, as of the last time I read up on it, one can copyright writings/lyrics, poems, and even software as long as an American citizens name or regestered business name and date is displayed in plain view. When something is being passed around by the inventor without any such copyright notice it can be argued public domain. Now, in the case of trademarks thats diferent.

(c) 2008 - A Jammer Production -


(I like to think that I'm ahead of my time)

(*grin*)

>>Jammer>>


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>>Jammer>>

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InvisibleNuShroomPharmerII
old hand

Registered: 11/02/99
Posts: 453
Post deleted by users_request [Re: oscill8]
    #407949 - 09/28/01 11:54 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)


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InvisibleCaptain Jack
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Registered: 01/23/00
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Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: NuShroomPharmerII]
    #407956 - 09/29/01 12:05 AM (22 years, 9 months ago)

I already addressed the issue, dude: "Of course, if nobody's heard it you'd be hard pressed to prove it, but it's there."

Let's say I write a song, record it, and only sell 127 copies of the CD, but didn't send anything to the copyright office.

Then let's say another band rips the song off, sells 2328323232 copies of it, sends it to the copyright office. I can sue them.

As for your David Bowie / Vanilla Ice thing....

That's an issue known as "sampling". That is around the time where guess what....sampling was judged to be a violation of copyright. So bands that sample have to get permission or give royalties.

Example: The Verve's song "Bittersweet Symphony" contains a small sample from a Rolling Stones song. Not the main melody, just a supporting line. They didn't get permission. Then they got busted. They had to turn over 100% of the royalties from that song to the company that owned the rights to the Rolling Stones song.

http://www.captainjackmusic.com


--------------------
-
Captain Jack has been hailed as a brilliant scholar, discredited as a brilliant fraud, and mistaken for a much taller man on several occasions.

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InvisibleNuShroomPharmerII
old hand

Registered: 11/02/99
Posts: 453
Post deleted by users_request [Re: NuShroomPharmerII]
    #407957 - 09/29/01 12:07 AM (22 years, 9 months ago)


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OfflineJammer
Computers areMORE Addictive!

Registered: 11/04/00
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Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: NuShroomPharmerII]
    #407971 - 09/29/01 12:28 AM (22 years, 9 months ago)

I would demand a refund. Either that or get another attorney to sue for "no services rendered".


ah shit.... why can't us guys spell correctly?

>>Jammer>>

Edited by Jammer on 09/29/01 01:48 AM.



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>>Jammer>>

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OfflinepsilocyberV
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Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: Thor]
    #423955 - 10/12/01 02:51 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by administrator.

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Invisibleralphster44
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Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: psilocyber]
    #423992 - 10/13/01 09:20 AM (22 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by administrator.


--------------------
www.RalphstersSpores.com

WE SHIP TO CANADA FROM WITHIN CANADA :smile:

For your safety and security, we have a Secure Website.
Also for your security, we will not take your credit card number.
Your security and safety is of utmost importance to us.

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Invisibleoscill8
*bondage fairy*
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 1,215
Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: ralphster44]
    #424024 - 10/13/01 10:07 AM (22 years, 9 months ago)

it should be closed down again soon. netfirms has a tos violation about the promotion of illegal activities... i emailed them, but didnt mention the pics this time (unfortunately, hes only got pics in there of mushrooms and i didnt want to compromise anyone in any way by saying hes using their copyrighted pics). i notice pics by anno, major millet from tff, psilocyber and ralphster, plus a few i didnt recognize. what sucks is, hes not just using vendor pics posted on a vendor's site- hes using member-posted pics as well.

its someone here, you can tell they did their homework by sampling lots of different pics and sites. theyre older pics too- not ones in circulation recently. anyone have a clue who the fuckhead is? canooks... ::grin:: i guess youre not all good :)

ps if anyone else wants to email netfirms, its abuse@netfirms.com, the exact tos is:
"TOS 3(d)(vii): User shall not include content, or
>internet links to content on the Site that contain,
>promote or involve any of the following: the promotion
>or incitement of, or instruction for, the commission
>of illegal activities."

plus mention hes using a redirector site- it hinders their popups and makes them lose traffic $ (the redirect is http://mushroom-mycology-shop.cjb.net/).

and if a vendor or original poster wants to email them about copyright violations, the exact tos is:
>1.) TOS 3(d)(i): User shall not include content, or
>internet links to content on the Site that contain,
>promote or involve any of the following:
>any infringement of copyright, trademark, patent,
>trade secret or other intellectual property right;

:(



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"Any data submitted to Shroomery.org becomes our property"

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InvisibleThorA
Anti-Theist OVERLORD
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Registered: 08/12/98
Posts: 10,017
Loc: Iceland
Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: psilocyber]
    #424138 - 10/13/01 01:04 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

Has anyone emailed the guy directly?

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Invisibleralphster44
collector
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/03/01
Posts: 4,657
Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: Thor]
    #424166 - 10/13/01 01:32 PM (22 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by administrator.


--------------------
www.RalphstersSpores.com

WE SHIP TO CANADA FROM WITHIN CANADA :smile:

For your safety and security, we have a Secure Website.
Also for your security, we will not take your credit card number.
Your security and safety is of utmost importance to us.

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Invisiblefuzzysquirelnuts
veteran
Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 1,150
Loc: souhwest us
Re: Vendors please check this out. [Re: ralphster44]
    #424907 - 10/14/01 07:55 AM (22 years, 9 months ago)

the sites already down again


--------------------
were all retarded sometimes

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