Home | Community | Message Board


Azarius
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,344
Loc: On the Border
Gurus
    #4063492 - 04/16/05 10:40 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

I am continually surprised at the number of shadetree Gurus on this forum. I want to ask how many people have worked out all of the problems of their lives to the extent that they think that they can actually advise others in a guiding way? I know I have not. I have made some changes in myself for the better...and I have opinions, but acting the part of a spiritual adviser implies that one has found "the answer" and acheived perfection in living.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,866
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 27 days, 15 hours
Re: Gurus [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4063527 - 04/16/05 10:56 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

"as long as you learn, you will teach"
-Unknown :P


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 13,001
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 11 hours, 48 minutes
Re: Gurus [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4063633 - 04/16/05 11:30 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

Giving counsel requires that one has expertise in the area in question. I can take people only as far as I have actually gone myself and no further. If I pretend that I am further down the road than I actually am, and portray myself as such to my counselee, then I am a liar, a quack, a "shadetree guru." Real Wisdom derives from experience, not in quoting platitudes.

I do not practice or see individuals (excepting the clearly delusional posters) who profess a global perfection of functioning, do you? Have you read anyone here, this side of madness, claiming to be living in Sat Chit Ananda or some equivalently beatific condition and proclaiming a way into the perfection of being? If not, then exactly what is annoying you? :confused:

I'm responding because counseling is my profession, my art, and it is not done with the identity of perfection, just greater 'wholeness' in an area where others may not have any wholeness, and thus we attempt to help others come to greater wholeness [health]. It becomes evident rather quickly to the counselee whether the counselor is genuine or not.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
Male

Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
Re: Gurus [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4063642 - 04/16/05 11:33 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

There are a number of self appointed gurus here, but I won't mention any names. You know who they are. I don't mind an occasional sermon or lecture, but it's the freakin constant stream of unsolicited advice delivered from the mount that grates. The ones who rarely take part in a give-and-take discussion, but prefer to deliver their sermons from the mount that are annoying. It's like, "I read three New Age books and now I pronounce myself an expert..I will deign to come down from this mountain and suffer to instruct the masses below."

I think it stems from a messianic complex which is usually ego in one of its more clever disguises.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,344
Loc: On the Border
Re: Gurus [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4063888 - 04/17/05 12:42 AM (12 years, 17 days ago)

I certainly was not refering to you. A trained mental health professional and a "guru" are definitely not the same thing. I was refering more to the type of individuals who recently got interested, read a book or two, and proceeded to don their preistly robes. Before I will take any self-professed spiritual adviser seriously I need to know a few things: Is their life acted out in an organized fashion, and do they have at least 10 years in the business of advising others succesfully.
A few years back my daughters (due to peer pressure) took an interest in attending a Baptist church. One day the minister of this church came to my house to talk me into attending as well. I was faced with a 22 year old young man who could do nothing more than quote verses from the Bible. He was quite angry and egotistical, and voiced personal prejudices against minorities and homosexuals. He was just a confused kid, but someone had convinced him he was a pastor. My daughter's experiences in this church eventually led to their quitting the church altogether due to the mixed signals that were laid out every Sunday in the sermon. The oldest is now a wannabe Buddhist, and the youngest is now an atheist in the strongest sense possible.
I guess if I had to get right down to the root of my annoyance, it is not that anyone here is claiming to be Jesus or Buddha, but the quoting of platitudes recently read in books, and presenting them as wisdom without the benefit of testing the said platitude out in the sandbox of life for several years. I am often told that personal experience means nothing because some guy wrote something else in a book that was most likely misinterpreted anyway.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Gurus [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4063971 - 04/17/05 01:04 AM (12 years, 17 days ago)

As long as you are NOT commingling Gurus with Swamis...  :thumbup:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Gurus [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4064145 - 04/17/05 01:50 AM (12 years, 17 days ago)

I appreciate what you said about how something some guy wrote in a book or web page is suppose to carry more weight with me then my own personal experiences.

I get that a lot here and I don't understand it. If anyone thinks I am going to chuck what I learned from my experiences because some guy some where said it can't be, they are engaged in wishful thinking.

I don't even understand why attempts are made to use the words of another human stranger to denounce the actual personal experiences of members here.

I think it's why I put up posts now and again to ask if all the unexplainable of the universe has been explained yet and if all of the unanswered questions have been answered. Until then, an open, yet reasonable skeptical and questioning mind benefits us all.

I personally think anyone who follows a guru is more apt to start acting like one because they think they found an authority figure that can back them up.

I don't know about anyone else but, I tend to have a problem placing blind trust in "authority figures" other then the one in my heart. Seeking advice from experienced people is cool! I think smart people enlist the help of others and the only dumb question asked is the one not asked. Seeking advice in an area your knowledge is weak in is not the same as allowing yourself to be told what to do and think and how to be without question or further consideration on your own part.

But hey, for anyone willing to turn there power over to another, there are five ready and waiting to take it from them. That's a part of living and learning.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineBanJankri
FreefallerUpwards

Registered: 07/27/04
Posts: 1,392
Last seen: 9 years, 28 days
Re: Gurus [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4064298 - 04/17/05 02:46 AM (12 years, 17 days ago)

hehe gurus on shroomery. Now thats funny :smile:


--------------------
Just let everything flow, just flow right to the center of everything. You gotta turn off your mind and relax, and then just float downstream...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,344
Loc: On the Border
Re: Gurus [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4065046 - 04/17/05 10:53 AM (12 years, 16 days ago)

You pretty much summed up my thoughts on this. Recently there were some discussions about materialism where blanket statements and generalizations were made. I was essentially given the message that 40 years of personal experience means nothing because The Grand Poobah, or whatever, had written that it was incorrect in a book. That is just ridiculous...and bad logic as well. I think that the process of forming a personal philosophy or religion should be influenced by the thoughts of others, but tempered by one's own judgement and experience...just my two cents.
A couple of years back my wife and I had some marriage counseling. It basically revolved around the fact that I am a self absorbed asshole. The guy who counseled us was a very intelligent Anglican Preist who really knew his business quite well. By the time the the issue was mostly resolved we had struck up a friendship because we shared many similar views. At a certain point, though, he approached me about joining his church...which I considered, but he also demanded that I accept many of his ideas at face value alone even though they countered my core sense of reality. In the end I rejected this idea because after many months of competant counseling he suddenly wanted to become the Guru and hire me as a desciple. I felt bad about the whole deal in the end because he was a nice guy, and I felt that I had hurt his feelings, but I am and always will be my own Guru.


Edited by Huehuecoyotl (04/17/05 11:20 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Gurus [Re: BanJankri]
    #4065064 - 04/17/05 11:03 AM (12 years, 16 days ago)

hehe gurus on shroomery. Now thats funny  

"The Gurumery" or shortened to "The Groomery"?  :confused:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibledorkus
don't look back
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
silence, the mandelbrot is about to speak [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4065073 - 04/17/05 11:08 AM (12 years, 16 days ago)

Is it ok if posters share pieces and phrases that they found inspirational, uplifting or wise?

What are we supposed to do here at S&P if we need to practice a promising technique 10-15 years before attempting to share it?

Sometimes I read something which resonate deep within me (might be delusion, might be a rush of happy chemicals) that I just have to share it immediately. Not because I want the credits, just because I want to SHARE. Is this wrong?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,344
Loc: On the Border
Re: silence, the mandelbrot is about to speak [Re: dorkus]
    #4065110 - 04/17/05 11:18 AM (12 years, 16 days ago)

I am not talking about sharing...I am denouncing preaching, and know that I am the true exalted one who's word is the law of God Almighty.

"Is it ok if posters share pieces and phrases that they found inspirational, uplifting or wise?"

Why ask me? I am not your Guru.


Edited by Huehuecoyotl (04/17/05 11:28 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,344
Loc: On the Border
Re: silence, the mandelbrot is about to speak [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4065128 - 04/17/05 11:25 AM (12 years, 16 days ago)

"The Groomery" would possibly imply something altogether different...that, maybe, we were concened with being well groomed...which I am not.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Gurus [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4065135 - 04/17/05 11:27 AM (12 years, 16 days ago)

I know what you mean about the Preacher. We all seem to be part real experience and part wishful thinking. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibledorkus
don't look back
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
Re: silence, the mandelbrot is about to speak [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4065161 - 04/17/05 11:35 AM (12 years, 16 days ago)

"I am the true exalted one who's word is the law of God Almighty."


I knew that. Of course you are.


"Why ask me? I am not your Guru."

Of course you are ^ .


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 20,424
Shroomery gooroomery [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4065250 - 04/17/05 12:26 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

I point out a lot of things but am not a guru, and never take the role

some people ask me to explain more, but like gomp I just point and utter

the internet conference format permits occasional signposts like that and unqualified graffitti also in the same post; this makes a good equalizer.

People can read through the graffitti (gurufitti) and either discover something about themselves or not.

S&P is especially good that way.

what exactly is the problem?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,851
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 8 days, 5 hours
Re: Shroomery gooroomery [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4065257 - 04/17/05 12:32 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
what exactly is the problem?




There isn't one, Huehue is just upset that we don't praise him for being our guru enough. :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,737
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Gurus [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4065343 - 04/17/05 01:19 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
I am continually surprised at the number of shadetree Gurus on this forum. I want to ask how many people have worked out all of the problems of their lives to the extent that they think that they can actually advise others in a guiding way? I know I have not. I have made some changes in myself for the better...and I have opinions, but acting the part of a spiritual adviser implies that one has found "the answer" and acheived perfection in living.




How can anyone hope to finish the trials of their Life until their Life is over? Does that mean I can only offer advice after I've died?
It is better to be both the master and the student, I think.


--------------------
BTC - 1KqrSHZ1C3NsQP4g3PkHhppBnhdgyXr6sB


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinethe_phoenix
Stranger

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 541
Loc: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Gurus [Re: trendal]
    #4065417 - 04/17/05 02:00 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

To be or not be a guru is not a yes/no, either/or matter. Personally, I do think I've learnt enough to give advice to others. I do the same in real life and I see people's lives improve for it, and everybody is better off. In fact, I see many posters who seem wise enough to give good advice and I hope they continue doing so.

Sometimes advice is wrong, but the truth is subjective. It would be foolish for anybody to accept blindly what anybody here says, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't accept it at all (not either/or), nor that the person in question shouldn't give it in the first place. Ideally, in any exchange of ideas, both parties should benefit. Neither should blindly believe nor blindly preach, except perhaps in the most extreme situations of totally enlightened Guru and novice student. The best student is the best teacher.

That being said, I think the notion of enlightenment is very misunderstood in contemporary society. It's viewed as this far off thing in the distance, unattainable for the average citizen. Well under this belief it is indeed unattainable. Every second anybody could come to some major, major realizations. There's nothing external anybody's waiting for, it's all internal. Enlightenment will wait while people learn to flick their inner mental switches to "off"...but time's 'a wasting!

Should we all shut our mouths and listen? We could indeed learn much from the silence, but the truth is someone will always be making noise talking. So we might as well get with it and join in the exchange of information, not despite our shortcomings, but to *improve* and ameliorate our shortcomings. We may discover enlightenment is not so far off...if enough people express this fact in their respective journeys towards this common enlightened end.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,344
Loc: On the Border
Re: Shroomery gooroomery [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4065463 - 04/17/05 02:17 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

I deleted this because I posted out of insecurity.


Edited by Huehuecoyotl (04/17/05 02:30 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* What's a guru.. and why have one?
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
Mixomatosis 3,383 93 01/12/04 11:08 AM
by Anonymous
* How To Rate A Guru? Adamist 865 12 06/11/03 03:38 PM
by CleverName
* thodol bardo- the tibetan book of the dead
( 1 2 3 all )
blizzy600 3,251 48 03/11/09 09:49 PM
by zannennagara
* How I Killed My Guru Moonshoe 2,646 8 10/25/06 04:52 PM
by Moonshoe
* Guru Goldilocks and the Three Deluded Bears PedM 865 6 04/19/04 12:43 PM
by Anonymous
* tibetan book of the dead aluminum_can 1,754 18 09/19/01 12:54 PM
by CosmicJoke
* On guru's and teachers
( 1 2 3 4 all )
MOTH 3,844 76 08/01/05 12:19 AM
by Icelander
* Post deleted by Anno Anonymous 674 13 08/23/04 08:30 AM
by gnrm23

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Diploid, DividedQuantum
2,308 topic views. 2 members, 5 guests and 11 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Phytoextractum
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.092 seconds spending 0.003 seconds on 16 queries.