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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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ME
    #4063145 - 04/16/05 07:50 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

Some night, a few days ago I was in bed falling to sleep and It hit me:

when I fall asleep now, there is no me anymore untill I get to REM.
Not only that there is no memory, but there is no consciousness. Me, as I know myself stops existing for a few hours. I'ts oblivion, nothing more.

It is both scairy and amazing. Even though I experience it every night I still can't imagine not existing, because everything I ever knew was from the perspective of existence.

I wonder, when I return from this oblivion every morning, am I the same person, same entity, or am I another consciousness just having memories of the previous one. Do I die every time I go to sleep?

What the hell is consciousness anyway?

Once I had such strong opinions on these questions, and used to spread it to others and talk all the time like I actually knew something.

But at the end of the day, no matter what I ever said on forums or people around me, I dissapear and do not exist, and wake up ignorant of what I am


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineGomp
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Re: ME [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4063190 - 04/16/05 08:16 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

:grin: :thumbup:

To behold ...
... be?hold?ing

"The end is now, you are dead, you are ... !"
-Unknown :P


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Invisiblemoog
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Re: ME [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4063437 - 04/16/05 10:07 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

It's no big deal. The subconscious needs rest just as much as the conscious body does. There goes your sense of self. It's not dead, it's just taking a time out.  :smirk: So yeah I guess your "soul" sleeps at night too.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: ME [Re: moog]
    #4063462 - 04/16/05 10:19 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

smiles
gestures
more smiles


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: ME [Re: moog]
    #4063471 - 04/16/05 10:24 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

But you are missing the weight of it...

there is no resting, no brain, no room, no night, no universe when I'm sleeping, nothing exists as if nothing ever existed.

For you the observer, yes, it is resting of the mind, but for me the sleeper, I have no mind, in fact there is no me to judge this by.
As far as the dead I am concerned, I never even existed, and am no different from a stone in those moments, now am I?
In fact stone is more existent than I am because we humans think of ourselfs as our consciousness rather than our material existence.
A stone still exists because its existence is judged by material presence, but I who am judged by consciousness exist less than a stone


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineGomp
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Re: ME [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4063514 - 04/16/05 10:51 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

keep digging, I dig this hole! :smile:

Do you dig?

hehe :wink:

dying is rest, rest is dying.. :P


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: ME [Re: Gomp]
    #4063563 - 04/16/05 11:07 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

You said keep digging, and you ask me if I dig...

How can I keep digging if I'm not digging already?  :wink:


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: ME [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4063590 - 04/16/05 11:14 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

I have had the experience of Being an Infinite and Eternal 'Ocean' of "Unbearable Compassion." THAT is all there was present to awareness - there was no 'I' no memory or ego-center thinking "this is incredible!" All there was, was this self-radiant pale, blue-grey Infinity of ecstatic Compassion.

Then, in a nanosecond, that Infinitity turned into a point, a singularity of piercing-yet-ecstatic feeling of Compassion (and 'I' was back) - a locus of feeling - my Heart. That the "Dewdrop" can slip into the "Shining Sea" is wonderful, but when "The Shining Sea" slips into the "Dewdrop" and the Infinite comes to dwell in the finite - THAT is miraculous.
OM MANI PADME HUM - the Great Mantra that symbolizes this experience - The Absolute is a Jewel in the Lotus of the Heart. No 'I' BUT superawareness, not oblivion. My conclusions based upon the experience of egoless awareness as opposed to egoless annihilation lend meaning to my existence, not the seeming futility of existence in the face of oblivion.

I believe that all that exists does so because we are simultaneously eternal ideas in the Mind of GOD. Insofar as we are eternal ideas (because Eternal Being does not consist of temporality), we have eternal life, eternal existence. Unfortunately, we are so addicted to our relative manifestations in space-time that we become estranged from our true home and true identities. This is Plato, Neoplatonism, Neoplatonic Christianity, Gnosticism and Kabbalism to some extent. As the Oracle points out the sign to Neo - "Temet Nosces" - Know Thyself.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinezahudulallah
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Re: ME [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4063641 - 04/16/05 11:33 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

I have had the experience of Being an Infinite and Eternal 'Ocean' of "Unbearable Compassion."




In a few prime moments of polishing the heart while under heavy doses of LSD, it was like eating something too quickly. I call it Pleroma-shock, or the spiritual mood swing. One minute I'm thinking about something on the television, the next I can't stop crying ecstatically... and for some reason I always look skyward. When the heart becomes polished like that I am joyfully reminded that I will experience that one hundreth fold and forever at that.

The trance of zikr, while gentle on the heart, is exhausting for the body. When sobriety hits me I sound like I've been underwater holding my breath for sometime.

I am convinced the human body cannot handle the full experience of the Pleroma.. one would literally suffer a heart attack


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: ME [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4063692 - 04/16/05 11:45 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

Thanks for putting that in layman's terms for us.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: ME [Re: zorbman]
    #4063739 - 04/16/05 11:56 PM (12 years, 13 days ago)

Really...or sarcasm?


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OfflineGomp
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Re: ME [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4065083 - 04/17/05 11:12 AM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
You said keep digging, and you ask me if I dig...

How can I keep digging if I'm not digging already?  :wink:




To make or form by removing earth or other material: dig a trench, vs. Slang ...

:heart:


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Edited by Gomp (04/17/05 11:13 AM)


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: ME [Re: Gomp]
    #4065238 - 04/17/05 12:18 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
You said keep digging, and you ask me if I dig...

How can I keep digging if I'm not digging already?  :wink:




To make or form by removing earth or other material: dig a trench, vs. Slang ...

:heart:




I know, I was just playing stupid  :thumbup:


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: ME [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4065247 - 04/17/05 12:23 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
I have had the experience of Being an Infinite and Eternal 'Ocean' of "Unbearable Compassion." THAT is all there was present to awareness - there was no 'I' no memory or ego-center thinking "this is incredible!" All there was, was this self-radiant pale, blue-grey Infinity of ecstatic Compassion.

Then, in a nanosecond, that Infinitity turned into a point, a singularity of piercing-yet-ecstatic feeling of Compassion (and 'I' was back) - a locus of feeling - my Heart. That the "Dewdrop" can slip into the "Shining Sea" is wonderful, but when "The Shining Sea" slips into the "Dewdrop" and the Infinite comes to dwell in the finite - THAT is miraculous.
OM MANI PADME HUM - the Great Mantra that symbolizes this experience - The Absolute is a Jewel in the Lotus of the Heart. No 'I' BUT superawareness, not oblivion. My conclusions based upon the experience of egoless awareness as opposed to egoless annihilation lend meaning to my existence, not the seeming futility of existence in the face of oblivion.

I believe that all that exists does so because we are simultaneously eternal ideas in the Mind of GOD. Insofar as we are eternal ideas (because Eternal Being does not consist of temporality), we have eternal life, eternal existence. Unfortunately, we are so addicted to our relative manifestations in space-time that we become estranged from our true home and true identities. This is Plato, Neoplatonism, Neoplatonic Christianity, Gnosticism and Kabbalism to some extent. As the Oracle points out the sign to Neo - "Temet Nosces" - Know Thyself.




In the state you describe there was something, perhapse you were not you, there was no you, but there was something greater than you,
yet when unconscious or asleep there is nothing, not devine nor
egoistic, there is not even an absence of these things because
absence has to be noticed in order to exist. In sleep the entire process of being dissaperas, nothing IS anymore.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: ME [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4065258 - 04/17/05 12:33 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

when it matters, whatever matters matters;
when it does not matter - you need not fret about it.

the kind of thing that can really be improved is ramping up to full awareness upon awakenning (it repeats a lot) and not fretting
fretting can be a big drag on your system.

waking up a lot is a big part of the system, and so is bedding down.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: ME [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4065295 - 04/17/05 12:57 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Gomp said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
You said keep digging, and you ask me if I dig...

How can I keep digging if I'm not digging already?  :wink:




To make or form by removing earth or other material: dig a trench, vs. Slang ...

:heart:




I know, I was just playing stupid  :thumbup:





:smirk:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: ME [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4065644 - 04/17/05 03:34 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

There IS the 'dream ego' in REM sleep, and the body still maintains rudimentary consciousness. Even plants apparently respond to threats with fire and shears on an electrical readout. That is why I found the latest 'mercy-killing' by starvation to be an act of utter cruelty to the living body. I wouldn't even torture an insect by starvation, personally. Saying that there is "nothing" present to one's ego, which has become submerged in the unconscious, only to re-emerge upon waking, fails to acknowledge the potential existence of that perceiving ego held in a state of unconsciousness. When it re-emerges in the morning, the potential has once again become actual. Both potential and actual (from an Aristotelian metaphysics) are real. In this sense, you were real even before your parents conceived you (the Aristotelian 'efficient cause'). You existed as an Idea in potentia, in as one might say, 'the mind of GOD' (the Aristotelian 'Absolute Cause' [of your existence]).

In other words, when you are in Delta wave sleep, dreamless sleep, you are aware of a 'singular thought form' (according to Patanjali, the great compriser of classic Yoga) - a field of darkness. It is not nothing, it is in fact something which can be described (as I just described it). In Delta sleep, you do not cease to exist. What ceases are 'variations in the citta [mind-stuff]' (Patanjali) which is experienced as a fixed field of darkness, and the lack of variations is the lack of thoughts. We exist in and through that state.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: ME [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4066069 - 04/17/05 07:17 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

My post was about sleep before REM, in REM our consciousness wakes up and we become a person again, but before REM we are like a washing mashine.

It is like death and birth every day.

What buggs me is how can there be me, and then there not be me,
and be me again..
Why does that bug me? Because that can mean that I do not exist, I am a series of light flashes. Is every flash one being, or are all the flashes one being?

So when I die at night, am I born as the same entity, or does my brain give birth to another sentient creature every time I regain consciousness?
Is my brain a blueprint for making beings?

In other words, I am abstract, I am as abstract as hope and love

There is no me, I am my own illusion


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: ME [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4066072 - 04/17/05 07:21 PM (12 years, 12 days ago)

And as for body, the body is conscious yes, but so do dead people still show reflex to some actions. Consciousness is not just reviecing and interpreting data, it is the perspective from which it is experienced.

When your body reacts in dreamless sleep, do you call that consciousness? Did you feel it? Did you experience it? You as a sentient being did not exist in that time, you have no memory nor did you think anything.

From outside your body is alive and well, but from your perspective..
well there is not your perspective anymore is it?
You are nothing, just like medical concept of death, no more you.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineGomp
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Re: ME [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4068589 - 04/18/05 02:24 PM (12 years, 11 days ago)

"Our body is consciousness"
-Unknown :P


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