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InvisibleMycomancer
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Free Seed Thread Discussion *Now with Poll!!*
    #4056262 - 04/14/05 09:41 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

esin said:
Quote:


Well at first there was a rule that prohibited extremely new members from participating. Than we all agreed that it was in the hands of the previous poster (i.e: you, in this case) to decide whether or not the n00b should be allowed to participate.

Newbies have ripped people off in this thread (myself included). I personally choose not to accept anything from new members anymore. But i believe some have gotten through with their offers.





I agree with esin, i also will not take offers from new members. 

I feel some revision to free seed thread policy should be considered. 

In order to maintain the rythym and functionality of the free seed thread, i suggest that a member should be required to have at least one trade rate to be taken seriously in the thread. 

I feel they should make a trade in the marketplace to earn their first trade rating.  Maybe also a minimum post amount like thast which is required to be able to rate somebody. 

IF a poster dose not meet these requirments, the last legit offer before them should skip to the next legit poster.

When we have members with 1 post and no rates of any kind posting in the thread, it becomes deserted and the rythym is dead. 

:rasta:,

mycomancer


--------------------



Edited by Mycomancer (04/16/05 05:16 PM)


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OfflineLegoulash
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Re: Free Seed Thread Discussion [Re: Mycomancer]
    #4056739 - 04/15/05 12:07 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I would prefer that you have to ask or be "invited" into using the thread.. There are far too many poppy and daturas up for trade.. Both of which are available everywhere...


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OfflineHooty
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Re: Free Seed Thread Discussion [Re: Legoulash]
    #4057051 - 04/15/05 01:19 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I think that undermines the underlying purpose of the thread, which is, in my opinion anyway, to put seeds in the hands of people that wouldn't necissarily have them otherwise as well as to simply share our seeds so that everyone benifits. Of course this is just my perception of it, but I think making it invite only thread would create a sort of elitism that shouldn't be desired around here. You create a group of people who have a somewhat (however superficial) higher hierarchal standing.

Now as far as the trade rating rule, many people have gotten their trade ratings from that particular thread and many people simply don't trade that much otherwise. Also concider that not everyone gives trade ratings. Probably everyone has sent someone something and that person recieve it without giving the sender a trade rating. Trade ratings aren't mandatory and are a very unreliable.

I think the current policy of leaving it at the discression of the previous poster is the best and most fair.


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Offlineneuro
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Re: Free Seed Thread Discussion [Re: Mycomancer]
    #4057996 - 04/15/05 10:23 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

If you guys want to add the rule, put it to a vote or something and it can be done or not done depending on the vote.

Regarding the other technical aspects, like inviting users to it, or selectively prohibitng this or that, that can't be done because there is no way to set such access for that. So policing and monitoring for adherement to the rules will still be in the hands of the people who post in the thread.


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Offlinestevo
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Re: Free Seed Thread Discussion [Re: Hooty]
    #4059943 - 04/15/05 07:15 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Hooty said:
I think that undermines the underlying purpose of the thread, which is, in my opinion anyway, to put seeds in the hands of people that wouldn't necissarily have them otherwise as well as to simply share our seeds so that everyone benifits. Of course this is just my perception of it, but I think making it invite only thread would create a sort of elitism that  shouldn't be desired around here. You create a group of people who have a somewhat (however superficial) higher hierarchal standing.

Now as far as the trade rating rule, many people have gotten their trade ratings from that particular thread and many people simply don't trade that much otherwise. Also concider that not everyone gives trade ratings. Probably everyone has sent someone something and that person recieve it without giving the sender a trade rating. Trade ratings aren't mandatory and are a very unreliable.

I think the current policy of leaving it at the discression of the previous poster is the best and most fair.




I agree with Hooty.  There are plenty of people with overstocks of seeds wanting to offer them that may have just happened to "bumped into" this post by accident or heard about it through other means, and have just registered a name.  I think people should use their head and make their own decisions, or use a "you send first" policy for those with no ratings.  How do you get "ripped off" on an "offering"?

Also, I think the passwords got lost a few times on this server too.  I've been posting here since '99 on a few other names but my freebie email expired so I cannot get another password.  I have no ratings yet but I do not live life ripping people off for a few dollars worth of seeds.  I sent out seeds to a few so hopefully they will give me some feedback when the order comes :smile:

Either way I think the thread is a good idea.  Let's keep it going :grin:


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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: Free Seed Thread Discussion [Re: stevo]
    #4060040 - 04/15/05 07:35 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I think the current policy of leaving it at the discression of the previous poster is the best and most fair.



im all for fair but if people are reluctant to trade with noobs then that does stagnate the flow of the thread...

there is the rule of having a minimum number of posts to get access to certain forums. im not sure if this is applied to the marketplace but if it is one should be able to check a persons posts and see if they are having conversations or just trying to get the numbers up...


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OfflineHolly
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Re: Free Seed Thread Discussion [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4061681 - 04/16/05 05:28 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

As a noob, I'm okay with the "you send first" rule. I know I'll be keeping my end up, so I'm happy to demonstrate. I can see why people would be reluctant to send to unknowns, but it would slow things down. I got a good trade out of the thread, glad somebody trusted me.


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Future events such as these will affect you in the future...


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Free Seed Thread Discussion [Re: Holly]
    #4062458 - 04/16/05 03:16 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I agree there should be minimum standards to get in the free seed thread. I got burned a few times, tag number got me and a few others. Someone with a new name has nothing invested and can grab the freebie and give nothing back. There are way too many moochers out there that cause problems for the rest of us. I think it's a good idea to distribute seeds to those who couldn't otherwise get them but I don't see how having qualifications stops any of that from happening. One trade referrence and 50 posts is not too much to ask. If a noob has to wait a couple weeks before getting a freebie, what's wrong with that?

I believe we already have a rule that the quantity should be specified. That rule should be enforced. Too many people say "some" which could be 5 seeds or 5 grams. There should be a minimum quantity of poppy or other common seeds like morning glory. All it takes is to have an offer by a noob for "some poppy seeds" and the thread is dead.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlineesin
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Re: Free Seed Thread Discussion [Re: stevo]
    #4062628 - 04/16/05 04:25 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

That is true. However, the free ethno thread is for making trades easier.

When i want to give free seeds i just give them casually or on an dedicated thread, and only when i have more seeds than i will need for myself.

But if someone offers something i need in the free seed thread, i may make an effort and shorten my seed supply (possibly having to buy more seeds or grow less plants than i intended) for the sole reason that i'm getting that particular plant i want. And i wouldn't want to do that and get ripped off in the end.

I agree with the 'at least 1 positive trade rating' rule.
If you have interesting ethnobotanical seeds it's pretty damn easy to get a trade rating in the marketplace anyways. Ratings aren't mandatory, but if you trade successfully and the person doesn't rate you you can always ask - i don't believe they would refuse to rate you if you got through with your part of the deal.

Stoney, he got me as well. Than he dissapeared and (i believe) created a puppet that would post just as crazy stuff as he used to.


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InvisibleMycomancer
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Re: Free Seed Thread Discussion [Re: Mycomancer]
    #4062756 - 04/16/05 05:15 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

* Policing and monitoring for adherement to the rules will still be in the hands of the people who post in the thread.

The rules changes suggested are an attempt to mitigate damages attributed to puppets. Below is the voting form based on the responses to this thread.
New free seed thread rule?
You may choose only one
Poster should have at least one trade rate
Above with a minimum post amount requirement(25?50?)
Just a minimum post amount requirement
No changes
If above choice includes a minimum post requirement, what should it be?
You may choose only one
10
15
20
25


Votes accepted from (04/16/05 05:13 PM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



Edited by Mycomancer (04/17/05 06:00 PM)


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OfflineLiveByFreedom
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Re: Free Seed Thread Discussion [Re: Mycomancer]
    #4062856 - 04/16/05 05:43 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I still don't have a trade rating, but a bunch of trades in the works (got a lonely mailbox guys :'( ). I messed up the flow, because i didn't want to send to a newbie that might not send to the next poster. He also wanted to do it through email and not through here, which wasn't cool with me. I then realized that i'm considered a newbie here, haha.


--------------------
"Everything is not as it seems." Eye


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OfflineFluxburn
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Re: Free Seed Thread Discussion [Re: LiveByFreedom]
    #4063162 - 04/16/05 08:06 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

To be honest, I also hate not recieving anything from the free seed thread, free syringe thread etc. Before I did either, I had plenty of posts and I also traded in the market place before hand.

I am tired of deadbeat free traders, if someone doesn't send there end and doesn't have a good explanation they recieve a negative trade rating. Honestly it is annoying to think you are recieving something and they just blow you off, which is ridiculous. Most of them you constantly have to remind over and over again to send something. Some ridiculously stupid drug addict or some reckless individual of society that has not a care in the world. I mean we don't expect this to be your #1 priority, but if you don't care just don't be a part of the scene here and stay the fuck out for good.

I think it takes a level of respect to be a part of this community, we should set up some guide lines that define what respect is by a means of additional rules.

Hey maybe your should make users only have limits to 1 post per day for the first week, so they actually read what other have to say and learn something before wasting all our time. Going to the mush cult form must just be annoying for the mods, same questions every week for eternity. I know that some of the things they ask are not a straight objective, 1+1=2 they sometimes are more like 6/2=3*9=27+14=41 and perhaps they lost a step and don't understand the result.


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Offlineesin
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Re: Free Seed Thread Discussion [Re: Mycomancer]
    #4063277 - 04/16/05 08:56 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

If the trade rating rule is instated, i suggest we make it 'at least one positive trade rating'.

Someone with nothing but bad ratings would kill the flow as well, wouldn't he?


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OfflineHooty
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Re: Free Seed Thread Discussion [Re: esin]
    #4063336 - 04/16/05 09:16 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I think this is a bad idea. Or at least poorly though though. Maybe both. I mean what if the person in question has a really low trade rating. He still meets the at least 1 trade rating stipulation, but people still might not want to trade with him and he'll still slow dow nthe thread, defeating the purpose. Now if we go with a minimum post requirement that doesn't say very much about the person at all. It just says that they've either been around here a while, or maybe just post a lot (which say nothing of the quality of the posts they make) in a short period of time. Who knows.

Both of these alternatives also descriminate against the person who has been around a long time, but hasn't post much, or traded much (or any), and you can't really concider a person like this a newbie. However do we really want to impose a "Must have been a member this long rule"? Although I think it would be better than the others, I think it too is rather unnecissary and pointless. Things like this are better taken on a case by case basis, and the only way this can be done is to allow the previous poster to use reasoning to make a decision, for this reason I think things should remain as is.

edit: this post wasn't made in responce to esin's last post, but rather to the thread in general.


--------------------


Without love in the dream
It will never come true


Edited by Hooty (04/16/05 09:20 PM)


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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: Free Seed Thread Discussion [Re: Hooty]
    #4064541 - 04/17/05 04:19 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

u cant deal with this on a case by case basis.
everytime there is a case the thread has already died and needs to be ressurected.
the idea is to keep that from happening.
i think having minimums is a good way to do it because what were realy dealing with here is cheapness and lazyness...
these noobs arent interested in putting forth any effort
and so needing to post 50 messages is too much work for most of them.
also if u use a minimum of posts ull be able to look at those and determine wether the person is participating or just upping his stats...
with a single trade rating it could be tricky to determine if it was an honest trade or just the same dude under a different name...


--------------------
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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Free Seed Thread Discussion [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4065568 - 04/17/05 03:00 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

A lot of good points have been raised. I voted for feedback plus post count but didn't vote on the number because the choices only went up to 25. You can do that in a couple days easy. I would say at least 50. As has been said, someone can create 2 names and give himself a trade rating. It's a good idea to give bad feedback to those who stiff you but then they can give you a bad feedback too even though you sent your end and they didn't. It's the same problem they have at ebay. People don't want to give negs because they always get one in return.

Even though people can get around it, if we have some standards then that will take care of 90% of the problems we've been having. How about 1 positive feedback, no negatives or at least 4 shroom average and 50 posts?


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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OfflineHooty
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Re: Free Seed Thread Discussion [Re: Stonehenge]
    #4065896 - 04/17/05 06:04 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:


everytime there is a case the thread has already died and needs to be ressurected.
the idea is to keep that from happening.





The thread has been around for quite a while in one form or another, longer than a significant portion of the people posting in this thread have been registered. Now I say that not to pull rank among people that haven't been registered for very long, because there's more than plenty of people that have been here longer than me, but I say this to say that the thread runs in cycles that may not be as apparent to those that haven't been around as long as others. It stalls ever so often, and it's not always, I wouldn't even guess the majority of the time, because of a newbie who people don't trust. Probably sometimes no one wants what's being offered, sometimes no one has anything to offer, sometimes simply no one is interested in participating. You can't keep these stalls from happening altogeather.

I'm not trying to be militant or anything. Obviously any of the proposed changes won't affect me directly, seeing as I meet even the strictest of the proposed changes. However my problem with these changes is really more of ideological one. I don't think I've taken part in the thread in its current manifestation, but in the version that was here before a lot of the current rules and regulations were made I did, and if I remember correctly I even got burned on a deal in it, but to me it seems this thread should be more about good will and less about restrictions. Although I was for the organization of a general set of rules for the thread (which the original thread was lacking) and for subsequent changes that have been made, I just don't support these proposed changes. I just don't think the institution of rules purely for exclusion is a good idea. To me the less rules the better unless absolutely necessary.


--------------------


Without love in the dream
It will never come true


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OfflineLiveByFreedom
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Re: Free Seed Thread Discussion [Re: Hooty]
    #4065961 - 04/17/05 06:39 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Can i please post a real offer in the free seed thread? I don't have a trade rating (i think a few of my trades went sour or something, i deserve my trade ratings already, i've sent out many envelopes/packages with seeds, and bought a greenhouse for 75 bucks that's getting shipped to me tomorrow). I also won't be receiving anything if i post an offer, and it'll be a good offer.


--------------------
"Everything is not as it seems." Eye


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