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OfflineGatorB
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Horse Poo or 50/50... hmmm...
    #4055465 - 04/14/05 05:55 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

A FOAF originally planned on using 50/50, but after reading some good things about h.poo on here, he's reconsidering...

H.poo would be cheaper, but he'd have to drive a ways to get it; a half hour or so. But that's not bad. But then he has to risk making some farmer suspicious. Plus he's heard good things about h.poo potency and it SEEMS like it's easier to prepare than 50/50... is he right on this?

50/50... well... seems more people do it. Maybe it's more convenient. Any personal testimonies on h.poo vs. 50/50?


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Offlinepsilocyben
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Re: Horse Poo or 50/50... hmmm... [Re: GatorB]
    #4055494 - 04/14/05 05:59 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

"50/50" is a casing material, not a substrate.
your casing is non-nutritious (mycelia will not eat this) and goes on top of your already colonized substrate.
people use spawn (cakes, wbs, rye) to inoculate (mix together) poo.
it then colonizes the poo, and you have a larger substrate mass.
THEN, you want to think about casing that with some 50/50.


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OfflineGatorB
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Re: Horse Poo or 50/50... hmmm... [Re: psilocyben]
    #4055574 - 04/14/05 06:12 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I know; he already has some jars going. He was gonna CASE those jars with 50/50, but now he's thinking h.poo. Sorry to confuse


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: Horse Poo or 50/50... hmmm... [Re: GatorB]
    #4055707 - 04/14/05 06:43 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

50 50 IS easy.

verm, peat, buffer, mix, and vwala.

You can also case with 100% peat and some more buffering.

MF


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OfflineGatorB
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Re: Horse Poo or 50/50... hmmm... [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #4055742 - 04/14/05 06:55 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Is horse poo easy though? I've also heard it makes the crops more potent.


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: Horse Poo or 50/50... hmmm... [Re: GatorB]
    #4055749 - 04/14/05 06:56 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

You are confusing me, you want to use horse poo as a casing layer?

It rocks as a substrate, and MIGHt work as a casinglayer, but Id not risk that and case with peat and verm.

MF


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OfflineGatorB
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Re: Horse Poo or 50/50... hmmm... [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #4055758 - 04/14/05 07:01 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Ok, gotcha. I didn't realize that h.poo was used only as a substrate. I thought it was used as a casing layer. I thought I saw a guide on here for casing cakes with horse poo instead of 50/50.

My bad.


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InvisibleRoadkill
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Re: Horse Poo or 50/50... hmmm... [Re: GatorB]
    #4055771 - 04/14/05 07:07 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

what are you referring to as 50/50 ?

Peat moss and Verm?

or Cow manure and straw?

this would help with answering your question.

TC


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
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Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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OfflineGatorB
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Re: Horse Poo or 50/50... hmmm... [Re: Roadkill]
    #4055777 - 04/14/05 07:09 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Peat moss / Verm.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Horse Poo or 50/50... hmmm... [Re: GatorB]
    #4056896 - 04/15/05 12:44 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

You are confused with the three terms.

Spawn
Substrate
Casing layer

Spawn is colonized mycelium such as whole grains or cakes, mixed in with poo and the poo is the substrate. After the poo FULLY colonizes, a casing layer is applied and its fruited.

Spawn as defined above can be just broken up and cased directly without ever mixing it with poo first. This means the spawn isnt spawn, but substrate and this obviously gives you substantially less substrate since you mix about 25% spawn, 75% poo. This is the advantage with poo..basically you make your casings all twice as thick, twice as wide, and add the nutrients of poo that grain lacks.

Casing layer would be applied to either, at the proper stages...be it 50/50 peat/verm or another mix.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: Horse Poo or 50/50... hmmm... [Re: GatorB]
    #4057701 - 04/15/05 05:55 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I dont know about HP as a casing layer. I know a person though who uses compost as a casing with good results. So, it might work. It actually WILL work, (ph of horsepoo is little more then 7, depending on condition of horse, age of poo etc), only thing is that HP has nutes. Which will attract contams more.

So save the nutes in your 4 inch substrate, and case that with 50/50! :laugh:

MF


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Horse Poo or 50/50... hmmm... [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #4057958 - 04/15/05 09:51 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomFriend said:
I dont know about HP as a casing layer. I know a person though who uses compost as a casing with good results. So, it might work. It actually WILL work, (ph of horsepoo is little more then 7, depending on condition of horse, age of poo etc), only thing is that HP has nutes. Which will attract contams more.

So save the nutes in your 4 inch substrate, and case that with 50/50! :laugh:

MF




You cant use h/poo or compost as a casing layer, by the definition of casing layer...non nutritious.

You can however apply a top layer of poo to colonized grains (though it would be better to mix the whole thing around and apply extra colonized grains to the top IMO) and when the poo is colonized, fruit it WITHOUT a casing layer. Poo is still the main nutrition source though, along with the spawn. Definatly better to add the casing layer though.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: Horse Poo or 50/50... hmmm... [Re: GatorB]
    #4058113 - 04/15/05 11:18 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Still people do use compost as a casing layer. Ask Anand! A skilled grower, who has been growing all kind of species.

It might be more likely to contam then peat, but that doesnt mean it WILL contam.

For example i have a jar with horsepoo inside my house, without a lid. After 2 weeks no contams. Untreated h-poo.
Why would it contam if there is grainspawn in, or under, it?

I just messaged someone that I soon will try a small project, spawn grain to non-treated H-poo.

:thumbup:


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Horse Poo or 50/50... hmmm... [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #4058134 - 04/15/05 11:28 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I mentioned nothing saying it would contam, or it was likly to. Still though you CANT use compost as a casing layer...compost doesnt fit into the definition of casing layer. What the person did if they added poo to the top of grains (as if it were a casing layer) is add more substrate to the top and fruit without a casing layer. Theres no way to use any substrate as a casing layer, without changing the definition of casing layer...you can however apply substrate to the top of substrate as a cover and fruit without a casing layer just fine.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: Horse Poo or 50/50... hmmm... [Re: GatorB]
    #4058188 - 04/15/05 11:47 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Ow ok now i see where your at. I am not stuck with someones definitions though, and I think many people would understand if someone says he uses Horse poo as a casing layer on its ryespawn.

Yeeh "you can however apply substrate to the top of substrate as a cover and fruit without a casing layer just fine.
" a lot of blablabla, thats just a nuted casinglayer. ;P


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Horse Poo or 50/50... hmmm... [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #4058250 - 04/15/05 12:05 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

It doesnt serve any of the functions of a casing layer though.

It doesnt provide a microclimate, it fully colonizes.
It doesnt hold moisture any better then substrate (because it is substrate) although this point could be debatable...it probably would hold more moisture then grains under it...but if you just mixed it all up together and fruited with no casing layer it would hold moisture just the same as if the poo was applied ot the top as a casing layer.
It doesnt provide a contam barrier. Poo isnt any less suseptable to contams then colonized grains. The other way around IMO...though poo is pretty damn contam resiliant.

So I just dont see how it could be called a nuted casing layer at all. Just additional substrate on the top of some grains.

Your right though, I'm am just being stuck on the definition. I'm like that though... Words are defined as certain words for a reason...so people can communicate better. If correct words arent used in communication, then comminication breaks down and suffers. Proper communication is important to me (and tough for me too) which is why I may tend to focus on it, sometimes even to much. Like now, rambling to try and explain myself fully so I'm not misunderstood..I often do that. I'll end it now :smile:


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleHolydiver
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Re: Horse Poo or 50/50... hmmm... [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4058275 - 04/15/05 12:16 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

On another note, H/poo has enough moisture to support primordia formation w/out a casing layer.



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To find a place to live between the negatives and positives.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Horse Poo or 50/50... hmmm... [Re: Holydiver]
    #4058285 - 04/15/05 12:20 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

You indeed have great luck (er skill) with hpoo Diver :smile: That is quite nicely forming...


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: Horse Poo or 50/50... hmmm... [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4058493 - 04/15/05 01:08 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

its not rocket science scat, so many words/arguing for horsepoo / compost as a casing layer.
It protects the substrate from drying out, it is easily rehydrated and I think the microclimate of compost isnt so bad... A casing layer also fully colonises.

Just watch out for overlay... :wink:

Me myself isnt that interested in horse poo as a casing. But what I find interesting is this.

A few weeks ago i picked some aged horse manure from a field. I prepared a pot where i put some seeds in (castor bean). 70% h poo, little peat and some compost.

Won won won wonder, why doesnt it contam? So, one of my next grows will ne with non-treated horsepoo. As a substrate.

Maybe its due to temperature (higher when colonising then averga roomtemp) and lack of air exchange when colonising. Also grainspawn can contam.

Aged horse manure is somewhat of composted also. In the composting process temperatures can reach 150F. So also more or less pasteurized.

Anyway im gonna try some none pasteurized horsepoo in the near future. Will post results, if they are nice... :grin:

MF


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