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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
The same old tired refrain...
    #4048893 - 04/13/05 04:41 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Here folks! Read this book and adopt this set of beliefs and study this person. Isn't that so cool what they said/did?

Well no, I haven't achieved that which I am championing, but YOU should!


Give it a break people. Share something about YOUR life NOW; not how you think you might be some time in the distant and non-existant future based upon some unachievable ideal.

This type of fantasy is the BIGGEST and most non-productive ego-game of all and BEST of all, it postpones any REAL growth. You need not do anything, but preach. How totally convenient.  :thumbdown:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
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Re: The same old tired refrain... [Re: Swami]
    #4048925 - 04/13/05 04:54 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

ya that's like trying to change the world without trying to change yourself.


--------------------


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Offlineegghead1
Nakedly Open

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 931
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Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: The same old tired refrain... [Re: Swami]
    #4048931 - 04/13/05 04:57 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

But if i say "I have achieved happiness" then you would most likely mistake that for another ego-game. You can write off anything you like as an ego-game swami , but that does'nt make it so. Ive personally learned alot from books and applied alot of what i have learned to my life. It has both helped and improved my state of mind in life considerably, so if i suggest a book its becuase ive had some beneift, not becuase i think its "cool". If preaching is when you have had some benefit from soemthing and you wish to pass that knowlege onto others, then i am guilty as charged.


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


Edited by egghead1 (04/13/05 05:08 AM)


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: The same old tired refrain... [Re: egghead1]
    #4048971 - 04/13/05 05:07 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

But if i say "I have achieved happiness" then you would mistake that for another ego-game.

If you have a message, then fine. Telling another what you think that they think is not only counter-productive, but is generally the voice of an ego that feels it has been slighted. Mind-reading is not a form of philosophical debate, is it?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: The same old tired refrain... [Re: Swami]
    #4048993 - 04/13/05 05:14 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I changed my post earlier. But as far as the ego is concerned, you are describing it as if its some kind of solid entitiy, which it is not. The processes of ego are concenred with the endless search for happiness in the external, conditioned world in all its forms. So i don't see how you have attributed my assumption to a solid (non-existent) enitity that somehow exists in my mind? If you could explain a bit more what you mean by 'ego' it would make things a whole lot clearer.


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/05
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Re: The same old tired refrain... [Re: Swami]
    #4049064 - 04/13/05 05:58 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Here folks! Read this book and adopt this set of beliefs and study this person. Isn't that so cool what they said/did?

Well no, I haven't achieved that which I am championing, but YOU should!


Give it a break people. Share something about YOUR life NOW; not how you think you might be some time in the distant and non-existant future based upon some unachievable ideal.

This type of fantasy is the BIGGEST and most non-productive ego-game of all and BEST of all, it postpones any REAL growth. You need not do anything, but preach. How totally convenient.  :thumbdown:




So we should adopt your way of thinking? I don't see this any different from what you propose...


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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Registered: 03/14/05
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Re: The same old tired refrain... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #4049087 - 04/13/05 06:27 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

It is impossible to drink from wisdom while having a full stomach.


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"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: The same old tired refrain... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #4049131 - 04/13/05 06:58 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

What way of thinking am I asking you to adopt other than to live wisdom before you attempt to share it? Do you think that unreasonable?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Registered: 03/14/05
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Re: The same old tired refrain... [Re: Swami]
    #4049304 - 04/13/05 08:23 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
What way of thinking am I asking you to adopt other than to live wisdom before you attempt to share it? Do you think that unreasonable?




You ask, then you answer...what is it exactly that you want from me?


You said more than you bargained for, then you want me to summarized it to what does not fully equate...a yes or no would be absolute for the relative truth your words hold.


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar


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Offlineegghead1
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Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 931
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Re: The same old tired refrain... [Re: Swami]
    #4049420 - 04/13/05 09:21 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

But then you cut down anyone that tries to offer wisdom whilst assuming that they are not living it? So i ask you Swami, what is it that you want?


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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OfflineFrog
Warrior
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Registered: 10/22/03
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Re: The same old tired refrain... [Re: Swami]
    #4049555 - 04/13/05 10:35 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Here folks! Read this book and adopt this set of beliefs and study this person. Isn't that so cool what they said/did?

Well no, I haven't achieved that which I am championing, but YOU should!


Give it a break people. Share something about YOUR life NOW; not how you think you might be some time in the distant and non-existant future based upon some unachievable ideal.

This type of fantasy is the BIGGEST and most non-productive ego-game of all and BEST of all, it postpones any REAL growth. You need not do anything, but preach. How totally convenient.  :thumbdown:




Sometimes the first step towards change is to admire a behavior.  Nothing wrong with aspiring toward an ideal that one admires.  Not all ideals are unachievable.  Sometimes it's just difficult to attain.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: The same old tired refrain... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #4050147 - 04/13/05 02:05 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

So you are unable to differentiate an action from a belief system?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: The same old tired refrain... [Re: Frog]
    #4050166 - 04/13/05 02:10 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Sometimes the first step towards change is to admire a behavior. Nothing wrong with aspiring toward an ideal that one admires. Not all ideals are unachievable. Sometimes it's just difficult to attain.

Perhaps.

"By their acts (not their impressive libraries - Swami added), ye shall know them."


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: The same old tired refrain... [Re: Swami]
    #4050333 - 04/13/05 02:46 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Right now I'm struggling to integrate the lessons of power plants. I found out for myself that unconditional love for each of my friends and enemies was the only thing that would cure the deep discontent I have harbored since childhood. I have the patterns of a lifetime to deal with and I am constantly falling back into states of anger and hopelessness. Then of course I automatically judge myself and don't give myself unconditional love and acceptance.

Now I have a partner and children. Something I told myself I never wanted. This relationship is in no way how I imagined my next and greatest relationship to be. All the physical and material things I told myself I had to have to be happy are missing to some extent in this relationship. Yet I have never been so much in love. Spiritually and emotionally she is the most I have ever wanted. Yet my old structures tell me constantly that this is not it.

I've been fasting for 15 days today. My mother died 2 weeks ago and all the emotions from a very dysfunctional childhood are rearing their ugly heads; my birthday is in 7 days and I'm getting old. I feel torn between addiction and incredible gratitude for all the changes of the last 2 years. I know that I am growing on the fast tract, but my ego structure is terrified and wants to hang on or kill me trying. My spirit is telling me it's time for the committed dose again, but so much is going on my fears tell me no way boy.

I this what you mean?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/05
Posts: 230
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: The same old tired refrain... [Re: Swami]
    #4050414 - 04/13/05 03:03 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
So you are unable to differentiate an action from a belief system?




How so?


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: The same old tired refrain... [Re: Icelander]
    #4050476 - 04/13/05 03:12 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I don't necessarily mean that people have to spill their guts; yet I find yours to be one of the most refreshingly honest posts that I have read. Trying to understand our struggles is light-years head of any abduction-type thread.

As to your internal battles, I have a few things to say:

1. Keep reminding yourself of the love and gratitude for your partner and children. NEVER take them for granted. (Sorry for the cliche.) I have never been blessed that way and I feel a void.

2. Keep choosing that which you deem to be higher even when you are pulled down again. Eventually the negative pulls will lessen.

3. While past stuff does indeed leave an imprint, you can choose to be free from it. Old crap has power because you choose to either keep reliving it or suppress it. Feel it ONCE totally and then let it go. Have a ritual funeral for young Icelander and say good-bye to that part of yourself. Accept that those trials have formed some good things in you.

Shrooms? I say forget it until you come to some point of stasis. Your call, of course.

Much love to you, brother.  :heart:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: The same old tired refrain... [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #4050491 - 04/13/05 03:14 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I did not ask anyone to adopt or believe anything, only to speak/write from their own life's experience or center.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlineegghead1
Nakedly Open

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 931
Loc: The Womb of Love
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: The same old tired refrain... [Re: Swami]
    #4050514 - 04/13/05 03:18 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Ah, this is what you want. Fair enough Swami, Fair Enough.


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: The same old tired refrain... [Re: egghead1]
    #4050544 - 04/13/05 03:23 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

What I REALLY want is to hear you recite the last part of "Thriller" in VP's signature theatre voice.  :grin:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/05
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Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: The same old tired refrain... [Re: Swami]
    #4050589 - 04/13/05 03:35 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Indeed...you've hacked my mind.


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar


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