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Offlinestevo
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Desmanthus Illinoensis grow log
    #4047843 - 04/12/05 11:07 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

This post is for all that are interested in this sacred plant.  I will be posting some info in regards to the cultivation of desmanthus illinoensis and hopefully some pics soon.  If you have and pictures of bioanalysis of this plant please post :smile:

I have been cultivating this plant for 4 years now in Maryland in a wide variety of places.  It is a hardy, neat looking plant resembling a mimosa, but smaller in size (its more of a legume than a tree) and seems to thrive in the lowest quality of soil.  It does not require rich soil however I have not seen them survive in very dry places unless they are very well rooted before transplanting.  I've noticed that these plants thrived in well ashed soil compared to the ones without the added potassium from ashes, however a few of the vaccant burn piles turned out to be not vacant and were destroyed (oops).  I've planted this weed along river banks, ditches, along railroads, vacant lots, and just about every place I could think of nearby that I feel won't get hit by the lawnmower.  They do well in rich soil too, but rich soil is usually overgrown by weeds in the summer and these plants do not survive well in competition without pulling the weeds.  The plants take about 3 years usually for the roots to fully develop so I've read, however after a full summer they can grow to a good size.  If planted now from seed, foilage will show immediately after popping up and continue all summer in full sun, however they generally do not come out of dormancy until June or so the following year, so its a good idea to mark the plants somehow.  I've noticed they only stay green for a few months here after feeling the mighty wrath of winter.  I see no reason this plant will not survive just about any area of continental US, or other regions with similar climates.  It grows wild very widely distributed in the US, so you may be lucky enough to see this plant already growing, although cultivating more is good to widen this plant's existance.

Another thing about these plants that I find incredibly useful is their roots harbor nitrogen fixing bacteria, which results in improved soil quality, which is an efficient alternative to toxic (and expensive) fertilizers.  This plant is gaining popularity amoungst farmers, although I have not seen this plant growing in the farmland around here.  I suppose chicken shit is cheap around here as far as bang for the buck regarding nitrogen content.

Spring is finally here and I have gathered a large quantity of seeds, some of which I have sprouted already 2 days ago, and more to come.  They have not popped out of the dirt yet.  Maybe tomorrow :smile: I'm thinking they will do fine along the roadside in places that are likely to get missed by the lawnmower a few times.  I would like to see them flower and reproduce naturally.  After all, who knows where this plant originally came from.  If the native americans hadn't propagated this plant, we may not yet have discovered this neat plant.  A friend in Ohio who originally donated my first seeds collected in illinois said they popped up very well after a wicked snowstorm a few years back covering the plants with 4 or 5 feet of snow so they are very hardy once established.  The seeds I have planted this year have originated from Texas, so I dont know how they compare. 

I have found that the only difficulty in growing these things is getting them to germinate.  On my first attempt I simply planted 72 seeds into some peat moss and waited [im]patiently for none of them to sprout, which was discouraging.  Since then I did a little more research and have found a method to get about 80-90% germination rate or higher sometimes starting from 5 minutes and continuing for 3-4 days, and a continuous supply of plants.  The procedure is as follows...

1. Bring a container of water to a boil on the stove or in the microwave, and dump a few dozen seeds into the container. Stir rapidly for a few minutes but try not to pulverize the seeds.  The idea is to soften the hard shell around the seed so water can penetrate but not beat the crap out of them.  Stirring is not necessary, but I've noted that it speeds the process up.

2. Continue the cycle until you have 3 or 4 containers(or however many you desire to plant) of hot afterboil water containing seeds.

3. After finishing the last container you should have noticed that some of the seeds have began to show signs of germination in all of the containers usually.  Plant them ASAP in containers or soft dirt somewhere near the house where they can recieve constant attention.  They need full sun to germinate I'm serious.  I've lost a few hundred seeds just putting them in the window sill.  Keep them nearby to give them watering but try to keep them organized in stages.  Don't let the soil dry yet.

4. Repeat step 3 each day for a few days making a new patch of seedlings out of the visible germinated seeds until all of them swell up and get soft (3-4 days).  At this point you can just go ahead and scatter container 1 evenly as another stage of seedlings and start another jar as described in step 1, making jar 2 become jar 1

5. Dump the oldest seeds evenly in soil on a daily basis and start another for as long as desired.  If you followed the steps you will always be scattering seeds that have been soaking for a few days, which is plenty long enough.  If you see any seeds in jars 2, 3 or 4, that are really falling apart, go ahead and move them into jar 1 to be dumped soon, but dont worry about every seed that barely has a root sticking out.  Its best to leave them in water in a dark place as long as you can get away with before they fall apart.  You'll have nice stages of plants of various sizes.  Once the plants start showing signs of bark development on the stem, you can go ahead and move them out of the yard into nature or your desired growing area.  Try to plant them before a few days of rain.  They should do just fine on their own.

That's It!  Now be careful planting these in the spring in areas that haven't turned green yet.  If you can visualize the whole area being overgrown by dense weeds in a few months, theres no way in hell they will compete.  They like to grow where no plant has grown before, without many neighbor plants.  Never dump fertilizer on your plants.  As I said a little wood ashes seem to help but it is not necessary.  The minute you put any amount of miracle grow on these plants they will die.

I'm not sure how variable the tryptamine content is, and never would know since I would not ever dream of extraction because that would be illegal.  Anyone have any info they'd like to share would be appreciated for taxonomy purposes.  There are few reports on potency however they all reveal to be comparable to mimosa in potency.  They is slightly less overall dmt per volume compared to mimosa, however at the rate these things grow compared to mimosa, I think they are superior as far as overall yield.

Thats it for now.  I will upload pictures soon, once they show signs of growth.

If you are interested in cultivating this plant, I would gladly donate a pack of seeds, or perhaps trade if you have anything interesting.  Shoot me a PM if you are interested.  Please do not message me with any questions about dosage or dmt preperation, or I will ignore your message and you will not recieve seeds.  Also, please ask first before dumping your address on me and expecting them to come in the mail, as they will run out eventually and I dont know how long this post will last.

--Steve


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OfflineFluxburn
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Re: Desmanthus Illinoensis grow log [Re: stevo]
    #4047928 - 04/12/05 11:37 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

this plant is similar to mimosa hostilis... isn't it?


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Offlinestevo
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Re: Desmanthus Illinoensis grow log [Re: Fluxburn]
    #4048040 - 04/13/05 12:11 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

it looks very similar in foilage to mimosa yes. it is much shorter growing. its not a tree like mimosa. if you're in the right area i've heard it is common in ditches or along riverbanks and flooded praries as it loves water


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Desmanthus Illinoensis grow log [Re: stevo]
    #4048301 - 04/13/05 01:34 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

grows like a ground cover for me.

pretty plant, got any pics coming?


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Offlinestevo
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Re: Desmanthus Illinoensis grow log [Re: kadakuda]
    #4048348 - 04/13/05 01:43 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

the ones i planted previously are not anywhere closeby and I'm sure are pretty dormant still. I will snap some pics when they pop up and do some experimentation with them. I've never seen it grow like a ground cover, as its an erect legume type plant but then again i try and space them out as best i can.


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Offlinestevo
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Re: Desmanthus Illinoensis grow log [Re: stevo]
    #4055968 - 04/14/05 08:14 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Day 4

Out of about 500 planted seeds that had germinated in water, I see 20 or more seeds have popped up already. This is rather slower than usual but there were a few nights when the temp got down into the 30s. These will be the first to be planted into nature on their own, and the plants I will collect seeds from, since their genetics may be more suitable for a colder type of climate.

The seeds that have sprouted were the ones in the ground and the rest were in containers, so I hope it didn't get too cold for them since they were above ground.

I have released 200 more baby sprouts into my garden and changed the water in the jars containing the seeds, because they were cloudy and had a bacterial smell, using the old water to wet the soil where I had planted the seedlings. Also I used a little to inoculate my compost pile and a few garden plants around the house.

So far from my experiments, the seeds have shown to have germinated at an average rate of 91%. I will do further analysis once I get rid of all of these sprouts.

Pics are on the way as soon as my camera charges and I find the right driver for my camera. I'm not sure if they're too small to show up since I have a cheap camera.


Edited by stevo (04/16/05 12:17 AM)


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Offline3six5
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Re: Desmanthus Illinoensis seeds [Re: stevo]
    #4060362 - 04/15/05 09:30 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

hey man thanks! got those Desmanthus Illinoensis seeds in the mail the other day, i should be starting those here within a week or so.

Thanks again man!
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]3six5[


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OfflineFluxburn
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Re: Desmanthus Illinoensis seeds [Re: 3six5]
    #4060367 - 04/15/05 09:33 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

man can I get a few seems of demanthus so guy was supposed to send to me in free seed thread but never did =(


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Offlinestevo
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Re: Desmanthus Illinoensis grow log [Re: stevo]
    #4060370 - 04/15/05 09:33 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Yay 5 more popped up. They are too small for pics.

Just for the record, 200 more sprouts have been planted


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Offlinesuperblingtheory
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Re: Desmanthus Illinoensis grow log [Re: stevo]
    #4060422 - 04/15/05 09:51 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I just soak the damn things and much like pot seeds in a glass of tepid water, they will poop a tail. Be sure to plant before you have a hydroponic joke.


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Offlinestevo
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Re: Desmanthus Illinoensis grow log [Re: superblingtheory]
    #4060776 - 04/16/05 12:09 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

haha i have a hydroponic joke already. I overdid it a little and now I have like 200 seeds everyday that are starting to sprout. I'll be glad when I'm finally done with all of them.


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Offlinestevo
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Re: Desmanthus Illinoensis grow log [Re: stevo]
    #4066184 - 04/17/05 08:06 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Well I did a headcount and I only have 70 successful plants that have shown their way out of the ground, all along the south side of my house. None of the hundreds of seeds I wasted on the northern side have poked their way up, including the trays that are now on the north side.

Not enough sunlight. Lesson learned. If you're up north, especially in spring, plant on the south side.


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OfflineJaguarWarrior101
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Re: Desmanthus Illinoensis grow log [Re: kadakuda]
    #4085045 - 04/22/05 03:08 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

kadakuda said:
grows like a ground cover for me.

pretty plant, got any pics coming?



Sounds like your growing Desmanthus Leptolobus rather than Desmanthus Illinoensis.


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The above post is purely hypothetical, and should not be considered the true thoughts, opinions, or actions of a real life person.

We perceive. This is hard fact. But what we perceive is not a fact of the same kind, because we learn what to perceive.
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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Desmanthus Illinoensis grow log [Re: JaguarWarrior101]
    #4087018 - 04/23/05 01:28 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

i got both. illinoensis is more erect but still flopes over. maybe htey will straighten now that they are outside.


you guys are using the boiling method? gives really good sprout rate.


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Offlinestevo
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Re: Desmanthus Illinoensis grow log [Re: kadakuda]
    #4122666 - 05/02/05 11:56 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Im surprised you got them growing inside kadakuka. They're anal about sunlight.

My illinoensis are really growing slowly but I think its because the temp has not gotten up enough yet. I'd love to snap a pic but my camera needs windows XP and I havent had the heart to put my hard drive through that experience yet. Seriously though, I've got some milage covered with these little seedlings. I hope they make it.

Anyone know if there's any other DMT containers that will make it in northern climates? like zone 7 on the USDA hardiness map


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Re: Desmanthus Illinoensis grow log [Re: stevo]
    #4122690 - 05/02/05 12:02 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

you must be kidding, these are growing in my apartment under a 4 foot dual fluoro setup fine. Of course some light bleeds through the windows. One bulb is cool blue and the other is full spectrum.
I heard that cool blue are just fine but who really cares since the power usuage in a year far surpases the light fixture and the bulbs. I run two 4 foot fixtures so 4 total bulbs and it is an extra $10 a month for power running them 14 hours a day about. I used to have them at 16 hours but who cares really.

I would hate to run those MH or HPS lights, doesn't one 400w boost the bill $30 a month?


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Re: Desmanthus Illinoensis grow log [Re: Fluxburn]
    #4122733 - 05/02/05 12:11 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Great. Full grown plants or seedlings? I'm not sure how intense it has to be but they need quite some hours. I've noticed only like one out of 100 seeds sprouted on the north side of my house where the sunlight sucks. I've also noticed that the seedlings that are planted in crappy dry filldirt are thriving compared to the ones in primo top soil and watered daily.

Good luck with that though


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Re: Desmanthus Illinoensis grow log [Re: stevo]
    #4122844 - 05/02/05 12:32 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

They are little babies, I have been meaning to post pictures of my garden. They do grow slow and are very sensitive to dumping water on them at first. You want to water at the soil level and not splash the little babies.



they grow similar to yopo



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Re: Desmanthus Illinoensis grow log [Re: Fluxburn]
    #4123485 - 05/02/05 03:24 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

neat that one on top almost looks like a pot plant. maybe i should have started mine indoors too this year. Usually by the time mine gets half that size they have bark on the root and those baby leaves are long gone though. Are you running light at 24 hours?


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Desmanthus Illinoensis grow log [Re: stevo]
    #4124839 - 05/02/05 09:10 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

perhaps drainage is the problem?  my first attempt i used a compost/shatty potting soil mix.  had the crappiest results with the sprouts.  this time around im using crappy potting mix, semi clay liek soil from the lawn, and sand.  drains fairly well despite teh clay liek dirt.

for indoors i seldom use more than 2 smaller flouro fixtures.  i stay on the blue end, but sometimes use coolwhites (for the 18" mainly cause better bulbs are uber $$$).  ironically i was buying 18" fixtures WITH daylight bulbs cheaper than daylight bulbs itself.  which is why i have so damn many 18" fixtures around :grin:

i like starting most things i have space for indoors.  if nothing else it jsut gives me peace of mind that i can controll the weather :smile:


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> The Ethnobotanical Garden

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