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 PowerTrip
Polypharmaceutical Shaman
Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 1,148
Loc: The void
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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 Sterilizing verm in microwave. 
#4047655 - 04/12/05 08:17 PM (19 years, 8 days ago) |
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 Well, I just found out that my microwave safe containers are not microwave safe when they are filled with verm. I read that some will melt, and I thought I was safe when it made it for 5 minutes. Just as I leave the kitchen for a minute I smell something burning. I go look at the container and the bottom had melted onto the microwave. Is it really necessary to sterilize vermiculite for a casing, if that is all you are using? I read that vermiculite is exposed to extreme temperatures as part of the manufacturing process. I'm only casing a few PF cakes here so I'm not looking to achieve perfection on this. It was a last minute decision really.
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I spit reality, instead of what you usually learn
and I refuse to be concerned with condescending advice
cause I'm the only motherfucker that can change my life
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MeatSpace
Waxer of unicorn butthole
Registered: 12/10/04
Posts: 10,832
Loc: Deep inside your ass
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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 Re: Sterilizing verm in microwave. [Re: PowerTrip]
#4047666 - 04/12/05 08:19 PM (19 years, 8 days ago) |
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Just put it in a real bowl.
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/ l \__ ... Hi, I'm Crankey, and I approve this message.
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sublime40oz
Traveler
Registered: 09/24/04
Posts: 1,755
Loc: Florida
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Re: Sterilizing verm in microwave. [Re: MeatSpace]
#4047725 - 04/12/05 08:33 PM (19 years, 8 days ago) |
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Yea, glass bowl bro...not the kind for ur nuggets either 
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Beyond the gray sky
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Hotnuts
old hand
Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 3,436
Loc: Wild Blue Yawnder
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Re: Sterilizing verm in microwave. [Re: sublime40oz]
#4047750 - 04/12/05 08:39 PM (19 years, 8 days ago) |
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There is absolutely no reason to sterilize an already sterile media. Vermiculite is sterile right out of the bag. Unless you've had the bag open in a mold ridden closet.
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PowerTrip
Polypharmaceutical Shaman
Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 1,148
Loc: The void
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Re: Sterilizing verm in microwave. [Re: Hotnuts]
#4047770 - 04/12/05 08:45 PM (19 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
hotnutz said:
There is absolutely no reason to sterilize an already sterile media. Vermiculite is sterile right out of the bag. Unless you've had the bag open in a mold ridden closet.
This is what I was thinking, especially casing mix which is going to be exposed to open air when I go to use it anyway. I don't really understand the need to sterilize casing mix. There is nothing nutrition wise in it for contams to colonize. I have read many casing FAQ's and they all said to sterilize your mix, but not a single one said why.
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I spit reality, instead of what you usually learn
and I refuse to be concerned with condescending advice
cause I'm the only motherfucker that can change my life
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 Roadkill
Retired Shroomery Mod
Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,674
Loc: Montana
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 Re: Sterilizing verm in microwave. [Re: Hotnuts]
#4047778 - 04/12/05 08:47 PM (19 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
hotnutz said:
There is absolutely no reason to sterilize an already sterile media. Vermiculite is sterile right out of the bag. Unless you've had the bag open in a mold ridden closet.
Are you sure that it comes sterile?
First time you open the bag you are letting contams in...anyway.
good luck!~
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Laterz, Road
Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!
Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.
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GatorB
Stranger
Registered: 07/30/04
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Re: Sterilizing verm in microwave. [Re: Roadkill]
#4047794 - 04/12/05 08:51 PM (19 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Roadkill said:
Quote:
hotnutz said:
There is absolutely no reason to sterilize an already sterile media. Vermiculite is sterile right out of the bag. Unless you've had the bag open in a mold ridden closet.
Are you sure that it comes sterile?
First time you open the bag you are letting contams in...anyway.
good luck!~
But then by that line of reasoning, every time it comes into contact with open air, you're letting contams in, that includes after taking it out of the microwave, pouring it, etc etc.
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PowerTrip
Polypharmaceutical Shaman
Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 1,148
Loc: The void
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Re: Sterilizing verm in microwave. [Re: Roadkill]
#4047800 - 04/12/05 08:53 PM (19 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Are you sure that it comes sterile?
First time you open the bag you are letting contams in...anyway.
Vermiculite is made by heating it to extreme temperatures until it "pops" or expands.
First time you open your container full of sterilized casing aren't you letting contams in? Do you guys make your casing in some sort of contam free lab or something?
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I spit reality, instead of what you usually learn
and I refuse to be concerned with condescending advice
cause I'm the only motherfucker that can change my life
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Hotnuts
old hand
Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 3,436
Loc: Wild Blue Yawnder
Last seen: 6 days, 23 hours
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Re: Sterilizing verm in microwave. [Re: GatorB]
#4047803 - 04/12/05 08:54 PM (19 years, 8 days ago) |
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Uhhhhhhhhhh yeah! So what's sterilizing it in a micro gonna do? Notta! Contams are everywhere. Growing around them is the key.
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Roadkill
Retired Shroomery Mod
Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,674
Loc: Montana
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Re: Sterilizing verm in microwave. [Re: PowerTrip]
#4047877 - 04/12/05 09:18 PM (19 years, 8 days ago) |
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I do all of my mycology projects in a sterile enviroment.
I nuke my casing material in a micro wave oven.
I make my casings up in front of a flow hood.
Yes I know how they mine Verm...and that they bag it up.
Doesn't mean that its sterile...at all.
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Laterz, Road
Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!
Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.
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PowerTrip
Polypharmaceutical Shaman
Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 1,148
Loc: The void
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Re: Sterilizing verm in microwave. [Re: Roadkill]
#4047939 - 04/12/05 09:40 PM (19 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Yes I know how they mine Verm...and that they bag it up.
Doesn't mean that its sterile...at all.
Well that's great. You know that they mine it and bag it up. You left out the process in between though. Yeah, the one where they heat it to a temperature that is far greater than any you will ever reach in your microwave.
Vermiculite information
"Flakes of raw vermiculite concentrate are micaceous in appearance and contain interlayer water in their structure. When the flakes are heated rapidly at a temperature above 870? C, the water flashes into steam, and the flakes expand into accordionlike particles. This process is called exfoliation, or expansion, and the resulting lightweight material is chemically inert, fire resistant, and odorless."
I don't think they are kicking it around in the dirt after it is heated, do you?
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I spit reality, instead of what you usually learn
and I refuse to be concerned with condescending advice
cause I'm the only motherfucker that can change my life
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goofy98
Heart of ahustler wrist ofa chemist
Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 451
Loc: next door
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Re: Sterilizing verm in microwave. [Re: PowerTrip]
#4047961 - 04/12/05 09:51 PM (19 years, 8 days ago) |
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who says they dust in the factory? You ever seen The process? HUGE piles of Verm are realy just sitting around waiting to be packaged. It has to cool before they can package it.
But Verm dosent really need to be sterilized. I use a 50/50 mix and it does because of the peat moss. But with Vermiculite it would be ok not to sterilize.
But roadkill will have a lot less contam rate with his sterilized vermiculite. That could mean out of onehundered casings roadkill has maybe one conam and you have 6.
Still its an acceptable loss for some, thats all im saying.
My opinion? why were you microwaveing for 5 minutes?? It takes like two cycles of one minute on one minute off to reach 250F and in a sealed container it will hold that temp for awhile. I actually do 3 cycles to get it around 300 to be safe.
Oh and im hoping the vermiculite was wet too cause if it wasnt... That would be a problem.
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PowerTrip
Polypharmaceutical Shaman
Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 1,148
Loc: The void
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Re: Sterilizing verm in microwave. [Re: goofy98]
#4048130 - 04/12/05 10:47 PM (19 years, 8 days ago) |
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I nuked it for 10 minutes because that is specifically what it said in the casing thread. I'm just going to case with the verm out of the bag and see how it turns out. In my opinion, the air in the factory can't be any worse than the air in my house. I have a cat and three people living in tight quarters here. My source of contams, if any, will more likely occur on my end. I was very careful with my pf cakes and I didn't lose a single one though.
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I spit reality, instead of what you usually learn
and I refuse to be concerned with condescending advice
cause I'm the only motherfucker that can change my life
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scatmanrav
Brainy Smurf
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
Loc: 
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Sterilizing verm in microwave. [Re: PowerTrip]
#4049603 - 04/13/05 08:53 AM (19 years, 8 days ago) |
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Making it sterilizes it, however it cools open air before being packaged and is exposed to plenty of open air before it gets to your house. My casing mix is sterilized in the PC for 30 minutes, in jars, about 30 at a time and kept until I need it (still moist). Then the jar is opened only in the bathroom (stripped and cleaned, where I do agar work and grain to grain transfers with no contams, STERILE environment) and poured onto the casing. There is now only a very small surface where mold spores can hit and infect my casing, and a thickness of casing below that millimeter on the surface that remains clean. Sitting on the surface, getting constant fresh air contams have a hard time germinating and my casing surface only gets exposure from the point when I case it untill it goes in the fruiting chamber. After being cased, its wrapped with tin foil over the top and incubated, so when its removed from the sterile bathroom, its covered, until its time to uncover it, which is done right outside my closet/chamber and then it goes in. The chamber has a HEPA sitting outside of it so air that goes in, is pretty sterile.
But hey, Im sure all this is overkill, and it only allows me to run a casing for 10 flushes before it contams (if it does at all and I just dont toss it for lack of production first), what does I knows 
In your nuker, I think I was told you need to add water to verm or the dry verm can heat to like 1500 degrees. There are small metals in it afterall, doesnt seem to be the safest thing to do (nuking it). This part I'm not so sure about..another member told me this before...I dont bother nuking anything to sterilize it though, PCing is so easy.
Edited by scatmanrav (04/13/05 09:29 AM)
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thenewguy05
The Mushroom Man
Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 2,123
Loc: My Underground Layer
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: Sterilizing verm in microwave. [Re: PowerTrip]
#4049618 - 04/13/05 09:00 AM (19 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
PowerTrip said:
I read that vermiculite is exposed to extreme temperatures as part of the manufacturing process.
Yes.perlite is heated somewhere around 1000 degrees until it pops like popcorn into a million pieces. i think vermiculite is heated to make it expand into a spongy media to hold water better. Personally i don't sterilize my vermiculite but some think it is necessary.
Edited by thenewguy05 (04/13/05 11:36 AM)
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MeatSpace
Waxer of unicorn butthole
Registered: 12/10/04
Posts: 10,832
Loc: Deep inside your ass
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Sterilizing verm in microwave. [Re: thenewguy05]
#4049911 - 04/13/05 11:03 AM (19 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
hotnutz said:
Uhhhhhhhhhh yeah! So what's sterilizing it in a micro gonna do? Notta! Contams are everywhere. Growing around them is the key.
Nuking the verm before casing is just a good precautionary idea,
if you don't think you should do it, then don't.
Why is there so much pointless arguing?
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Hotnuts
old hand
Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 3,436
Loc: Wild Blue Yawnder
Last seen: 6 days, 23 hours
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Re: Sterilizing verm in microwave. [Re: Roadkill]
#4050051 - 04/13/05 11:40 AM (19 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Roadkill said:
I do all of my mycology projects in a sterile enviroment.
I nuke my casing material in a micro wave oven.
I make my casings up in front of a flow hood.
Yes I know how they mine Verm...and that they bag it up.
Doesn't mean that its sterile...at all.
Very true. I suppose sterilizing isn't a bad thing by any means. I just get away with not doing it. I'm a bleach user for further flushes!  But don't get me wrong, it's not a bad idea at all. I shouldn't say things like that. You'll get a knack later on in this hobby of what you can and cannot get away with. RK, I need to build a flowhood!!  I'm so fead up with having to use a gloove box.
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Roadkill
Retired Shroomery Mod
Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,674
Loc: Montana
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Re: Sterilizing verm in microwave. [Re: goofy98]
#4050192 - 04/13/05 12:14 PM (19 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
But roadkill will have a lot less contam rate with his sterilized vermiculite. That could mean out of onehundered casings roadkill has maybe one contam and you have 6.
Still its an acceptable loss for some, thats all im saying.
I have never had a casing layer contamination...in all the years I have been growing.
Thats a pretty good track record!~
I have lost a few bulk substrates that contaminated during colonization...but I have never lost a bulk substrate that was fully colonized with a casing layer on it.
I did have a insect problem with gnats...a few years back during the summer.
I had to dump everything out in my grow room...and nuke the little bastards!~
I had to wash down everything...and started new stuff.
Hope nobody ever has insect problems...I feel for you!~
I have lost jars of Rye, WBS and Popcorn to contams...we all do from time to time.
Especially when you are experimenting with new substrates and procedures.
My whole point and arguement in this thread is this...you can never be too sterile.
You think sterile...you act sterile...you do sterile technics...you will go farther in mycology.
You can't change my mind on this.
I am anal about cleanliness.
I used to do open room work with agar...with low contam rates.
I got low contam rates because my room was spotless.
Anyway...whatever works for you...stick to.
There is no right or wrong in mycology...just alot of grey area.
--------------------
Laterz, Road
Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!
Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.
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Hotnuts
old hand
Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 3,436
Loc: Wild Blue Yawnder
Last seen: 6 days, 23 hours
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Re: Sterilizing verm in microwave. [Re: Roadkill]
#4050275 - 04/13/05 12:34 PM (19 years, 8 days ago) |
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Ohhhhhhh yeah! I had the worst case of them 2 years ago. I tried using a vaccuum, dunking, and about every other thing you can possibly think of. Notta! In the trash they went. I too have never had casing material contaminate. Now a substrate material is a different story. I like what you do with the flowhood. That would be great for building seed casings. Sometimes beat up seed will turn green on ya. I've found if I let my seed relax in a tray for a couple days and heal up, that really helps keep the contam rate a minimal after the casing material is applied.
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scatmanrav
Brainy Smurf
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
Loc:
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Sterilizing verm in microwave. [Re: Roadkill]
#4050858 - 04/13/05 02:26 PM (19 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Roadkill said:
I have lost jars of Rye, WBS and Popcorn to contams...we all do from time to time.
Especially when you are experimenting with new substrates and procedures.
My whole point and arguement in this thread is this...you can never be too sterile.
You think sterile...you act sterile...you do sterile technics...you will go farther in mycology.
You can't change my mind on this.
I am anal about cleanliness.
I used to do open room work with agar...with low contam rates.
I got low contam rates because my room was spotless.
Anyway...whatever works for you...stick to.
There is no right or wrong in mycology...just alot of grey area.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!!!!!!!!
I cannot say I havnt lost a casing once a casing layer is applied...but its been a better rate then 1 out of 100.
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