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 the_phoenix
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 Possible explanation into the workings of astrology? 
#4040998 - 04/11/05 12:27 PM (19 years, 10 days ago) |
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After doing some reading on the subject, a different way of understanding astrology has been brought to my attention. To summarize, the eight Sabbats are natural holidays not arbitrarily created by man, but based on the length of the days as the seasons change and things like that. The location of the stars allows one to calculate the time of year and therefore reflects Earth's natural cyclical existence. The beliefs and myths of astrology are ways by which early humans symbolized the changing of the seasons and the spiritual influences they bring. These earth-based influences are the fundamental constituency of astrology.
If you're interested, these three articles explain the concept in greater depth.
Introduction To The Sabbats
The Death of Llew, A Seasonal Interpretation
Astrology of the Magus - http://www.chaosmagic.com/archives/divination/astrology-of-the-magus.shtml (why does the hyperlink feature sometimes work and sometimes not?)
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 Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Possible explanation into the workings of astrology? [Re: the_phoenix]
#4041394 - 04/11/05 02:31 PM (19 years, 10 days ago) |
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Attempting to explain how somethings works when it doesn't, doesn't make sense.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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eMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....
Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
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 Re: Possible explanation into the workings of astrology? [Re: Swami]
#4041408 - 04/11/05 02:37 PM (19 years, 10 days ago) |
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Apparently sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn't.... 
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Uni-VersALL  MasterPeace
eMotive  Divinity NowThere Infinity eMelody
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the_phoenix
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Re: Possible explanation into the workings of astrology? [Re: Swami]
#4041521 - 04/11/05 03:08 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:
Attempting to explain how somethings works when it doesn't, doesn't make sense.
Please point out to me the faulty logic, because I don't see it...and I don't want to be misinformed.
*sprinkles star dust*
Star light, star bright, why doesn't the link work?!
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alsey
meet me in thedreamtimewater...
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Re: Possible explanation into the workings of astrology? [Re: the_phoenix]
#4041857 - 04/11/05 04:25 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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the problem with astrology still remains: there is absolutely no way celestial bodies can influence our behaviour/personality/fate/whatever.
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"Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana
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Psychoactive1984
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Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
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Re: Possible explanation into the workings of astrology? [Re: the_phoenix]
#4041859 - 04/11/05 04:25 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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We can provide the same knowledge as to the origin and historical relevance of alchemy as well....
It's still irrelevant.
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
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the_phoenix
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Re: Possible explanation into the workings of astrology? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
#4043328 - 04/11/05 10:32 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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You see, this is an example of some real personal progress being made. I was meant to learn about astrology at this time, and indeed it took some work on my part to get passed the superficial understanding that is promoted specifically so that the truth is saved for those deserving of it. Because an ignorant citizen won't benefit from being handed the truth.
There's always a superficial layer to things, but if you know where to look there is truth in it. This way truth always wins, because you can only understand the message if you're wise enough. This way true secrecy can be maintained as the plot for Good unfolds behind the scenes, while conspirators like Bush are lead to believe they're in control.
In all concepts, all facets of life, it's important to chip away until you reach truth, until you reach reality.
"One can well imagine the anxiety in the mind of the "noble savage" as he witnessed the dwindling hours of daylight each autumn. And the sense of relief he must have felt when the year "turned the corner" at the Winter Solstice, and the days started to grow longer again, promising that Spring would indeed return."
"That the cross-quarter days should be regarded as more important than the solstices or equinoxes should come as no surprise. It is a common human experience that things reach their greatest strength, their moment of peak energy, at their midpoint. In observing a human life, for example, a person is usually at the apex of health and vigor at a point about halfway through his mortality. So, too, with most other things in nature. So, too, with each quarter of the year. The cross-quarter-days can thus be seen as the four "power points" of the year. Consequently, those power points were marked by the four most important holidays of the Witches' year which, according to the old folk calendar, also marked the turning of the seasons. These also correspond with the "tetramorph" figures of the Zodiac, and were later adopted by Christian tradition as the sigils of the four gospel writers."
"In Welsh mythology in particular, there is a startling vindication of the seasonal placement of the sun god's death, the significance of which occurred to me in a recent dream, and which I haven't seen elsewhere. Llew is the Welsh god of light, and his name means 'lion'. (The lion is often the symbol of a sun god.) He is betrayed by his 'virgin' wife Blodeuwedd, into standing with one foot on the rim of a cauldron and the other on the back of a goat. It is only in this way that Llew can be killed, and Blodeuwedd's lover, Goronwy, Llew's dark self, is hiding nearby with a spear at the ready. But as Llew is struck with it, he is not killed. He is instead transformed into an eagle.
Putting this in the form of a Bardic riddle, it would go something like this: Who can tell in what season the Lion (Llew), betrayed by the Virgin (Blodeuwedd), poised on the Balance, is transformed into an Eagle? My readers who are astrologers are probably already gasping in recognition. The sequence is astrological and in proper order: Leo (lion), Virgo (virgin), Libra (balance), and Scorpio (for which the eagle is a well-known alternative symbol). Also, the remaining icons, cauldron and goat, could arguably symbolize Cancer and Capricorn (representing summer and winter), the signs beginning with the two solstice points. So Llew is balanced between cauldron and goat, between summer and winter, on the balance (Libra) point of the autumnal equinox, with one foot on the summer solstice and one foot on the winter solstice.
This, of course, is the answer to a related Bardic riddle. Repeatedly, the 'Mabinogion' tells us that Llew must be standing with one foot on the cauldron and one foot on the goat's back in order to be killed. But nowhere does it tell us why. Why is this particular situation the only one in which Llew can be overcome? Because it represents the equinox point. And the autumnal equinox is the only time of the entire year when light (Llew) can be overcome by darkness (Goronwy)."
"We have sought reasons to explain astrology to our fellow magi in terms that rely in no way whatsoever on the movement of stars as definite factors in determining the psychology ramifications of the astrological symbolism."
"When explaining the astrological workings to the
ancient herd, ideas like "subconscious" would have been
incomprehensible to simple animals of our past. It is Our opinion that
the constellations were used simply as temporal markers to indicate
cycles of time.
We were born as a Scorpio on this material plane of existence. We have
researched much into the scorpio nature and have found ourselves to
resonate quite well with this psychological model. Why?
We were born on the 9th of November. As We started to receive input
from the world surrounding us, We began to be conditioned by the
dominate energies that would be impressed onto our undivided psyche.
The colors of autumn and all associated energies provided the broad
strokes of the painting that would evolve into the daemon known as
Ramon James Long 3. The energies of harvest and the swinging of the
sickle were the first energies to be absorbed by his "watery" psyche."
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Possible explanation into the workings of astrology? [Re: the_phoenix]
#4043432 - 04/11/05 10:55 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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You see, this is an example of some real personal progress being made.
What is?
I was meant to learn about astrology at this time,
By whom?
...and indeed it took some work on my part to get passed the superficial understanding that is promoted specifically so that the truth is saved for those deserving of it.
What truth? That astrology is baseless?
Because an ignorant citizen won't benefit from being handed the truth.
Nor will a wise being benefit from being handed a falsehood. So what?
There's always a superficial layer to things,
There is? Is this from the Celestine Prophecy Book 8? OK, what is superficial about formica ?
...but if you know where to look there is truth in it.
And if one is wacky enough, they can find truth where there isn't any.
This way truth always wins, because you can only understand the message if you're wise enough.
Truth should learn that life isn't about competition and winning. Truth needs to grow up.
This way true secrecy can be maintained as the plot for Good unfolds behind the scenes, while conspirators like Bush are lead to believe they're in control.
How did an astrology discussion segue into morality and politics?
In all concepts, all facets of life, it's important to chip away until you reach truth, until you reach reality.
If one probes deep enough into the bush, what will he discover?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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the_phoenix
Stranger
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Re: Possible explanation into the workings of astrology? [Re: Swami]
#4043477 - 04/11/05 11:08 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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He will discover Nature in all its magic and beauty.
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
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Re: Possible explanation into the workings of astrology? [Re: the_phoenix]
#4043497 - 04/11/05 11:15 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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Well, glad you choose to indulge in it.
If you believe it, that's great... the thing is, the whole belief of astrology is superficial in terms of it's designation of personality traits, I wrote something in another post about how it fails to justify other celestial phenomena that affects "the energies". By way of the true dynamic nature of the solar system, and the precepts of associations provided by astrology, it should be vastly more dynamic, and take into account Comet's, asteroid's, + all the newly discovered moons/planets discovered after it's origination.
It was a bunk science to begin with as it didn't account for such. Further it's bunk because it stilll doesn't go so far as to attempt to unify all the planetary interactions in respects to the dynamic occurences. It may have a touch of truth in way of a certain form of energy imbued, however I don't believe that any accuracy can be provided as the premise is fallacious in way of it omitting knowledge that has been gained since the discovery.
In addition to that, most typical model's of astrology are based on the 12 signs, rather then the original 13. Take your pick.
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
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the_phoenix
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Re: Possible explanation into the workings of astrology? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
#4043514 - 04/11/05 11:19 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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To summarize what I'm saying, astrology isn't based on the stars! It's based on things local to planet Earth.
*waves hands in air*
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
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Posts: 3,546
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Re: Possible explanation into the workings of astrology? [Re: the_phoenix]
#4043547 - 04/11/05 11:26 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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So is god
(people)
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
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vampirism
Stranger
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Re: Possible explanation into the workings of astrology? [Re: alsey]
#4043590 - 04/11/05 11:40 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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Incorrect.
Astrology is a direct abstraction from reality. Reality trumps theory.
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the_phoenix
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Re: Possible explanation into the workings of astrology? [Re: vampirism]
#4043611 - 04/11/05 11:47 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
Morrowind said:
Incorrect.
Astrology is a direct abstraction from reality. Reality trumps theory.
Precisely. Astrology is reality in abstract, symbolic terms. And indeed it is the reality, the Earth's natural cyclical pattern, and not the cosmological theories, that should be investigated. At least, that's what I'm considering. See what I'm saying?
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
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Re: Possible explanation into the workings of astrology? [Re: alsey]
#4043620 - 04/11/05 11:51 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
alsey said:
the problem with astrology still remains: there is absolutely no way celestial bodies can influence our behaviour/personality/fate/whatever.
What of the moon affecting aggressive behavior in humans, as well as increased libido?
Also, one can mention tons of phenomena associated with mating patters and the moon's cycle, as they are directly influenced (lots of sea life)... I'm not saying that the planetary interactions and all that jazz affecting a person isn't possible, as I believe their is something to it, however, astrology fails as a tool to suggest just what it is.
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
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the_phoenix
Stranger
Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 541
Loc: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Re: Possible explanation into the workings of astrology? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
#4043631 - 04/11/05 11:55 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
Psychoactive1984 said:... I'm not saying that the planetary interactions and all that jazz affecting a person isn't possible, as I believe their is something to it, however, astrology fails as a tool to suggest just what it is.
Psychoactive, do you understand my argument? I'm proposing that it has nothing to do with the stars. Nothing. Do you understand what I'm proposing it *does* have to do with?
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
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Re: Possible explanation into the workings of astrology? [Re: the_phoenix]
#4043640 - 04/11/05 11:59 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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Yes  look who I replied to though...
I don't see how that discussion is relevant in terms of an explanation as to how it works... it's more on the basis of history, not as to how it works.
http://internet.cybermesa.com/~jasm/julian.html
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
Edited by Psychoactive1984 (04/12/05 01:03 AM)
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Delusion_of_Self
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Re: Possible explanation into the workings of astrology? [Re: Swami]
#4044437 - 04/12/05 05:20 AM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:
Attempting to explain how somethings works when it doesn't, doesn't make sense.
Swami why do you take pride in your ignorance?
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"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar
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alsey
meet me in thedreamtimewater...
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Re: Possible explanation into the workings of astrology? [Re: the_phoenix]
#4044476 - 04/12/05 05:40 AM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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pheonix, you're still avoiding the real issue. there is no way celestial bodies can influence our personality.
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"Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana
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egghead1
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Re: Possible explanation into the workings of astrology? [Re: alsey]
#4044481 - 04/12/05 05:42 AM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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How do you know?
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All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!
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