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exclusive58
illegal alien
Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
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Racism in the US
#4040002 - 04/11/05 04:29 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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How important is it? I know its present and well living (i even see it here on the shroomery), but is it something that is dying off, or on the opposite is it something that is regaining strength and popularity?
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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It depends who you ask, and how they define racism. There's certainly no more of the "whites only" signs or police using firehoses on protesters(they use tear gas now). I'd say that certain legislation meant to fight racism, such as affirmative action, just contributes to the view that these minorities are weak, and need extra help. They also constitute reverse racism, which makes great recruiting material for white supremacists organizations who portray their race as oppressed.
Other than that, there's also a lot of xenophobia, particularly towards Mexicans and Arabs. The former because "They took our jobs," as South Park so eloquently put it, and the latter because of 9/11.
There are a few solutions I would propose for each of these things. First of all, end affirmative action, as well as hate crime legislation. They don't work, and they just reinforce the idea that these people are inherently different and inferior. Second, a single tax on the value of land, combined with the elimination of all other taxes, would free up land for enough jobs to employ everyone who seeks employment. Thus, there would be no more reason to feel that one is in competition with other groups for desired jobs. Third, we should stop using interventionist foreign policy, which is the cause of so much of the hatred directed towards us. We might be able to get along with our Muslim neighbors then.
As for how strong racism is today, I'd say we've come a long way since the era of public lynchings and separate dining rooms, but it's still a problem. We need to realize that attacking the symptoms of racism will not affect the underlying roots of it.
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mps
Registered: 05/20/04
Posts: 21
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Re: Racism in the US *DELETED* [Re: Silversoul]
#4040174 - 04/11/05 08:02 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by mpsReason for deletion: old
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: mps]
#4040248 - 04/11/05 08:42 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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> First it was against the French, for reasons I still don't understand.
My feelings on this is because the French were unwilling to compromise on the stuff in the middle east... at least as portrayed to the American people by the media. I don't think the American people would have been as upset if the French had taken a "lets work together and figure something out" attitude... rather, we were led to believe that the French said, "No! We don't care what happened to you or your country. We don't care if you were attacked or not. We don't care if they have nukes or not. We say No!, and we don't care what you say or think, that is the way it is going to be."
Remember, this is the message that Bush and the media gave to the American sheep, er public. It doesn't matter if the message was true or not, it upset a lot of Americans and got them to 'hate' the French and to not look too closely at the accuracy of what was really happening with Iraq.
I guess what I am trying to say is that any 'racism' against the French because of the middle-east stuff was caused by politics and ignorance. Score one for both Bush and Bin Laden on this... maybe the are working together (scary thought).
> Then it was against the Mexicans. That one has always been around, but it's getting more prevalent now, and it's completely irrational.
I kind of understand this one as well. There is a lot of resentment towards the Mexicans that come into the US because they tend to refuse to adapt to American culture. For example, when I was a child, I flew through the Miami airport with my parents. While waiting, I noticed all the announcements were in Spanish rather than English. When I asked an airport employee why, I was told that there was a city law that required all public notices to also be in Spanish... but there was no law requiring the messages to be in English... therefore, they only did them in Spanish. I was absolutely dumbfounded at the absurdity of this. It may sound like a small thing, but the erosion of culture tends to upset people. (Ever wonder why the middle east hates western-ism... same concept...)
I am sure there is more to it than what I stated above... but at least I hope I provided a few things to think about...
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/10/99
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Seuss]
#4040256 - 04/11/05 08:46 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
My feelings on this is because the French were unwilling to compromise on the stuff in the middle east... at least as portrayed to the American people by the media. I don't think the American people would have been as upset if the French had taken a "lets work together and figure something out" attitude... rather, we were led to believe that the French said, "No! We don't care what happened to you or your country. We don't care if you were attacked or not. We don't care if they have nukes or not. We say No!, and we don't care what you say or think, that is the way it is going to be."
Anti-french sentiment existed long before that, for some reason. Tons of countries opposed the action in Iraq and made it known, France became a scapegoat for this.
-------------------- "I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson http://phluck.is-after.us
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newuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Phluck]
#4040264 - 04/11/05 08:49 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Freedom fries
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JesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: mps]
#4040265 - 04/11/05 08:50 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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"Giving someone the advantage because of their race is simply the reversed racism of the problem it was trying to solve."
It isn't reverse racism, it is simply racism.
I think people don't like looking at the success stories. They don't make good copy. The United States is the greatest country in the world to be a black man.
And I suppose I am a racist for wanting my country to enforce immigration law.
And the French are now a race of people? What about Canadians? If people don't like Canadians are they racist? What about the Irish? What if somebody loves Ireland more than any other country, are they racist?
We have one race, it is called the human race. We are all God's children in my eyes. That doesn't mean that I have to admire or agree with the geopolitical stance of French. That doesn't mean that the government should take away my wealth and spend it on the social services of people who sneak across the border in defiance of US law.
One of the things that never gets brought up in the race debate is the makeup of the "white" race. Are the Nordic peoples the same race as the Greek? Are the Celtic people the same race as the Spanish and swarthy southern Italians? Are the Welsh, Poles, Germainics and Slavs all the same race of people? Are Jews a race of people? What about Arabs? What race are people from India?
-------------------- Tastes just like chicken
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Since it is impossible in our society to point out any shortcomings that a certain race possesses, then the logical conclusion is that it is the other races fault for their downfall. Unless this dogmatic thinking is erased from our heads, and truth be sought, the rift between the races will gradually and continually increase.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: looner2]
#4040349 - 04/11/05 09:22 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Since it is impossible in our society to point out any shortcomings that a certain race possesses, then the logical conclusion is that it is the other races fault for their downfall.
Logical conclusion? Could you explain that to me?
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Unless this dogmatic thinking is erased from our heads, and truth be sought, the rift between the races will gradually and continually increase.
Uh, thanks to the ways genes spread, and the massive mixing of cultures due to advances in communication and transportation, the races are becoming closer, if anything.
-------------------- "I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson http://phluck.is-after.us
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Phluck]
#4040409 - 04/11/05 09:41 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Phluck said:
Quote:
My feelings on this is because the French were unwilling to compromise on the stuff in the middle east... at least as portrayed to the American people by the media. I don't think the American people would have been as upset if the French had taken a "lets work together and figure something out" attitude... rather, we were led to believe that the French said, "No! We don't care what happened to you or your country. We don't care if you were attacked or not. We don't care if they have nukes or not. We say No!, and we don't care what you say or think, that is the way it is going to be."
Anti-french sentiment existed long before that, for some reason. Tons of countries opposed the action in Iraq and made it known, France became a scapegoat for this.
Anti-french sentiment in America can be traced back to the "x-y-z affair" in 1797.
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: mps]
#4040485 - 04/11/05 10:11 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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mps writes:
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First it was against the French, for reasons I still don't understand. French-bashing is tolerated, which I think is racism.
French-bashing is not racism, but it does exist -- and not just in America. Jonah Goldberg has an amusing piece on this. From http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg071602.asp
Frogs in Our Midst Beware fellow hoppers.
A neo-Nazi fired a rifle at French president Jacques Chirac over the weekend. In what many observers called a surprising turn of events, the French politician did not respond to the gunfire by giving the young man the keys to the city and raising a neo-Nazi flag up the Eiffel Tower.
This is just one sign of how times have changed. Oh, I don't mean that the cheese-eating surrender monkeys are, all of a sudden, the sort of hamburger-eating heroes who leap recklessly into the fray with no regard for their personal safety. For all I know, saying gesundheit ? or anything else in German ? is still the best way to get a table at a French restaurant.
But, from my own personal perspective, the frog-bashing business has changed a lot since I first started just a few years ago.
Obviously, I'm hardly the first guy to chronicle France's status as the Boston Red Sox of military history or to ridicule the Frenchman's proclivity "to eat with his hands and make love with his mouth." People have been mocking the French since before the French were even, well, French. Recall, if you will, that in 49 B.C. the Gauls folded faster than a Vietnamese "masseuse"'s massage table when you hear your wife's car in the driveway when Julius Caesar came a-knockin'. Afterwards, he was reported to have said to the generals of Gaul, "Get off your knees, my sandals are clean enough. Go make me some lunch? something light." And this is how the Caesar salad was born. (Alas, the original recipe was lost until Caesar Cardini, a descendant of the emperor's, rediscovered the method while sorting through some family records in the 1920s.)
Indeed, other nations have long recognized the cultural, ummm, uniqueness of the French. The Dutch, for example, have a saying, "It took no more effort than casting a Frenchman into hell." The Italians: "Attila, the scourge of God; the French, his brothers." The Germans have innumerable phrases about the French, which only make sense because people love to talk about their waiters. "The French write other than they speak, and speak other than they mean," goes one German saying. "The friendship of the French is like their wine ? exquisite, but of short duration," goes another. "May the French ulcer love you and the Lord hate you," is an old Arab curse. The Russians noted long ago, "A fighting Frenchman runs away from even a she-goat," though I suspect this sounds better in the Russian.
And the English language is soaked through with anti-French bile. Phrases like "to take French leave" (to depart without permission, or less charitable but more apt: to flee) are less prevalent these days, but that has more to do with the fact that people speak English poorly. Much of our English heritage is derived from our forefathers' eagerness not to seem French. Dr. Johnson, for example, remarked that he'd read that Englishmen preferred their weathervanes in the form of roosters, or cocks, as a subtle jab at the fickle Gauls, who turned whichever way the wind blew ? Gaul being a play on Gallus, meaning cock (this, no doubt, will be great news to highbrow limerick writers as Gallus and phallus can now be rhymed).
All of that aside, it seems incontrovertible that these days, French-bashing is as "in" as women's jeans that show more butt than a plumber touching his toes. Indeed, in this decade, mocking France's poor hygiene, its contempt for Hebrew Semites, its enabling of non-Hebrew Semites, and its penchant for capitulation at even the slightest whiff of the Teutonic have become as run-of-the-mill as jokes about lost socks in dryers and shopping carts with one bad wheel were in the 1980s. Saturday Night Live, various comic strips, and a host of websites ? of varying degrees of maturity ? have all gotten in on the act.
Even the phrase "cheese-eating surrender monkeys" is now used as often as the French say "screw the Jews." Oops, sorry, that's a different popular French expression. I meant to say "pass?." [NOTE: I am not the author of the term. Again: It's from The Simpsons. But I do take some pride in its wide currency, as I believe I am its most successful popularizer.]
So the question remains: Why is French-hating so popular today? It's not like they've denied us fly-over rights recently. We haven't had to liberate Paris again (yet). French forces haven't fired on us like they did during Operation Torch in North Africa. They haven't stuck us with Vietnam, or propped up Carrot Top's career the way they kept Jerry Lewis going all those years. And yet, if Major League Baseball goes on strike, smacking frogs with heavy sticks may finally become the national pastime, as God no doubt intended.
I think the answer is simple, though perhaps not as simple as Al Bundy's epigram, "It is good to hate the French."
When terrorists from the most French-coddled and French-influenced region of the globe blew up the World Trade Center, any number of commentators noted that the "End of History" thesis was over. History, many of us said, had come back with a vengeance ("And this time, it's personal!" screamed my couch). Long-simmering differences between Christendom and Islam reignited with the end of the Cold War.
Well, it would only make sense that such fires ignited elsewhere as well. Remember, our differences with France ? much like our differences with the Arab world ? were always visible to those willing to see, even during the Cold War. The French maintained military independence from NATO. They regularly annoyed us in the U.N. and made our foreign policy more difficult, denying us air rights and whining about how our movies were more popular ? with Frenchmen ? than theirs were. Indeed, if the French had had their way when the Berlin Wall fell, East Germany would have remained a separate, and socialist, country.
But we overlooked all of that for two important reasons. The French didn't matter, and we had better things to do ? like win the Cold War over French objections. Both of these things are still true in an absolute sense, obviously. But, with the Cold War over, the French matter more today in a relative sense ? even as they matter less and less in an absolute sense.
While most of the West, if not the world, is Americanizing for good and for ill, France remains determined to stay French. The beautiful jabbering they call the French language is disappearing like an ornate sandcastle washed over by the global English tide. French officials debate for years over whether words like CD-rom are acceptable cultural imports (It's not. "Cederom" is the accepted form), while the rest of the world increasingly treats France as the Betamax of world history ? an interesting alternative, but no less irrelevant for it.
This would be touching, save for the fact that France increasingly defines being "French" as disagreeing with the United States. We support Israel, so the French hate Israel (and they really do hate it). McDonald's is American, so noodle-armed French intellectuals flex their wine muscles by tearing apart a few Mickey D's (even as France remains among the biggest consumers of Big Macs in the world). We say the war on terrorism is important, so they say it isn't. We say Osama bin Laden launched the attack on 9/11, and so the number-one bestseller in France says the Pentagon attacked itself.
You can see the problem here. If you want a culture which is defined by thinking and doing the opposite of another culture, that's fine. The British played this game with the French and became the pedestal upon which liberty, the rule of law, and the free market rest while France, in the words of Thomas Carlyle, remained simply a long despotism tempered by epigrams.
But this tendency becomes troublesome when a culture moves beyond the aesthetic and the culinary to the epistemological and the geopolitical. France can grumble about how much they hate our movies and food, as they spend their euros on both, all they like. Matters of taste are inherently subjective. But when the French start claiming that America is an imperial conqueror because we want to eliminate the terrorists the French have bought off for decades, well, them's fighting words. When politicians start making apologies for the murder of Jews because they want Arab votes; when French diplomats start setting up roadblocks in the U.N. because it's fun to embarrass America; when one froggy intellectual after another starts lecturing the United States on how to do things when so many of the world's problems can be laid at unwashed French feet ? well, that's when frog-bashing is going to become an American pastime again.
THE ENEMY WITHIN
Though not for all Americans. Increasingly, France is becoming the North Star for domestic America-haters. The French have long said that being French is a state of mind, not an ethnicity (which is why they made Algerian students recite "Our forefathers the Gauls?" every day). Well, if you go by French attitudes alone, America has the largest population of Frenchmen never to have surrendered to Germany.
Cynthia McKinney, that awful woman, cribs most of her conspiratorial nonsense from French best-sellers and newspapers ? even if she's too dim to know it. America's lefty intellectuals, long convinced that anything said with a French accent must be true, serve as a transmission belt for any and every anti-American pronouncement that comes out of Paris.
It's funny: The assumption that France is more "progressive" than America is widespread among American liberal cosmopolitans, even though France in many ways represents everything American lefties are supposed to dislike about America. France was a colonial power, and still is far more of one than America. If you think dropping bombs in Puerto Rico was bad, consider that the French dropped a nuclear bomb in a minority neighborhood of the globe not too long ago. The French use nuclear power, torture animals to make their food tastier, laugh at sexual harassment, and have absolutely no racial affirmative-action programs whatsoever. French families are abandoning their older relatives at French hospitals so they can take extended vacations. French schools have been forced to issue "bully insurance" because playgrounds have become so dangerous. Over a hundred candidates in France's parliamentary elections were under criminal investigation.
When you think about it, there are four possible explanations for why American leftists love France so much (aside from France's historical love affair with Communism and Stalinism). First, the French are trying to outlaw hard work and, perhaps eventually, work entirely. Government agents stake out companies suspected of working their employees more than 35 hours a week. Some exiting employees are searched to make sure they don't bring any work home with them. If you believe that requiring work is a form of discrimination against those who want to live well without working, then you've got to love France.
Second, the only sexual preference France doesn't celebrate is heterosexual monogamy.
Third, France has always treated its intellectuals like celebrities, a seductive practice for American academics forced to drive around in old VW buses and live next door to men who actually work with their hands.
But, finally, the most important reason American leftists love France is that French elites say bad things about America. French intellectuals call us racist, stupid, imperialistic, simplistic, etc. ? and that alone is proof of their intellectualism. So long as you call America "racist," you could add that an enema is as good as a toothbrush and some professor of "communications theory" would applaud.
I've grown tired of these French-bashing columns because there's not much left to say about a nation of 200 cheeses and one kind of toilet paper. Besides, the real threat isn't the frogs across the pond. The real threat is their fellow hoppers here at home.
Jonah Goldberg July 16, 2002
Before people start getting all bristly and whiny with me about the above, let me stress that these are the words of a political pundit, not the words of Phred. Jonah Goldberg has a reputation for being tongue-in-cheek. It's part of his schtick. I posted it because I found parts of it amusing, and other parts to be right on. What actually triggered my recollection of this particular piece was this part --
Quote:
French intellectuals call us racist, stupid, imperialistic, simplistic, etc. ? and that alone is proof of their intellectualism. So long as you call America "racist," you could add that an enema is as good as a toothbrush and some professor of "communications theory" would applaud.
I thought that apropos to a thread on American racism started by someone living in France. Something clicked in my cranium, and I was able to Google up this commentary I read a couple years ago. Memory is a funny thing, sometimes.
Phred
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Phred]
#4040610 - 04/11/05 10:40 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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hmm I don't think that Jonah Goldberg piece is funny. At all. If you parody a culture you delicately play around with insider facts and factoids about that culture.
This is just a blunt slander by someone with no specific knowledge of French culture. This is a comedian's way of doing a n****rjokes and getting away with it because it's directed against a currently unpopular European nation.
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The comedian said: The Dutch, for example, have a saying, "It took no more effort than casting a Frenchman into hell."
No we do not.
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"A fighting Frenchman runs away from even a she-goat,"
I doubt the Russians have got sayings that depict them as goatfuckers.
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The French write other than they speak, and speak other than they mean, goes one German saying.
That is not a German saying. Positively. In fact it couldn't even pass as a saying.
This is post-9/11 war rethoric and Phred, I don't get what you find funny about it nor what it adds to the discussion.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
Edited by Asante (04/11/05 10:41 AM)
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Phluck]
#4040827 - 04/11/05 11:28 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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> Anti-french sentiment existed long before that, for some reason.
True. It hasn't always been that way... Statue of Liberty, WWII D-Day, etc...
On one hand, the French have always (in my lifetime) been portrayed as snobbish... too good to add non-french words to the language (email anybody)... too good to be nice to non-french speaking tourists... too good to worry about world opinion by testing nuclear bombs... likes to point out all the bad things other counties do while pretending they don't do equally bad things in other parts of the world, etc...
Again, I am not claiming that the above is true or not... simply the impression I am given as to how a typically American feels about the French. The current anti-french "freedom-fry" BS was simply a propaganda move by the Bush admin... if Americans hate the French, and the French are against the stuff going on the middle-east, then the American people aren't going to be as opposed to the stuff going on in the middle-east just to get back a bit at the French... (yes, the media teaches us to be fickle...) Whoever is pulling the strings in the Whitehorse isn't a moron...
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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California
A E S T H E T I C S A T A N
Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 72,118
Loc: H A U N T E D H O U S E
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Seuss]
#4040874 - 04/11/05 11:45 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Racism exists, and always will, as long as there are distinctively different races. But IMO it is on it's way out. America welcomes many different races. What is a more racially diverse country? While so many races co-existing in America does provide grounds for racism/racial discrimination, it also allows for these different races to learn about and grow comfortable with each other.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Quote:
exclusive58 said: I know its present and well living (i even see it here on the shroomery) but is it something that is dying off, or on the opposite is it something that is regaining strength and popularity?
That's hard to quantify. In U.S. mainstream culture, political correctness is everywhere. I see preachy TV shows and movies that make obvious anti-racist and "progressive" statements. So, there is some amount of pressure to toe the political correctness line. I think racism has gone "underground" somewhat (meaning that when someone might have a little racism in them and they don't admit it).
Racism will always be with the human race and Americans aren't the only ones who experience or exhibit it.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: mps]
#4041276 - 04/11/05 01:45 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
mps said: First it was against the French, for reasons I still don't understand. French-bashing is tolerated, which I think is racism.
I think what it boils down to is a strong sense of American patriotism mixed with a strong dose of ignorance; where anyone who drapes themselves in the flag and calls themselves an American is automatically above a non-American.
Have you ever been to France? The second they hear English come out of your mouth they treat you like garbage (I went to Paris). I'm not saying all French people are assholes. In fact, I'm willing to bet the asshole ratio in France matches the asshole ratio in America.
I will also agree with you that the "anti-French" thing in America seems to have gone a bit far. I think a lot of it has to do with the "attitude" that Americans perceive from French people. I can't nail down any specifics, but I get the feeling that a lot of French people have this "I am an enlightened European and you are a neaderthal American" attitude.
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GabbaDj
BTH
Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,681
Loc: By The Lake
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Racism is alive and kicking..
Its just no longer socialy acceptable to talk about these things..
I rode around downtown LA yesterday and I saw lots of interesting shit. I saw a few craps games and niggas yelling "gimmie my money". I saw a hooker getting beat by her pimp yelling "nigga you gona learn" and I saw not one but two black women piss on the street..
Now what was I sayin? Oooh yah, we got racism.. But I dont know why?
-------------------- GabbaDj FAMM.ORG
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exclusive58
illegal alien
Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 6 years, 11 days
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haha, its funny to see that this thread turned into a discussion of the anti-french sentiment in the US. Does this reflect that americans have overall more of a problem with the french than with black people?
IMO, the french bashing is a result of the anti-french propaganda (because of the Iraq war) mixed in with the "feel-good" emotion that you get when you belittle a group of people other than your own (i.e. superiroty). oh, and also because there does exist french assholes!
I remember a picture i saw in a magazine of a Bush rally, and in the front row there was a guy with a cowboy hat (and he literally looked mentally retarded) wearing a t-shirt saying "Iraq First, Then France"!
But to get back on topic, to me, a race is either defined by the skin colour or by the religion. When i was asking the question, i wasn't thinking about the anti-french thing, i was more wondering about the actual state of racism of blacks in the US.
Oh, and one thing i'd like to mention, in France, the word "race" is not even used anymore. If you say "the black race" people will think you're racist. And you know how in the US when you have to fill up something like when you get employed, and they ask you you're skin color, well in France that's prohibited, all you need to say is if you're French or not.
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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I believe it is a constant, that it is just as severe as it has always been, only in another form.
If you observe Americans you notice a strong tendency to categorize and condemn. If you for instance watch how debates about welfare develop among many Americans, it is very clear that hardcore discrimination is by no means a spectre of the past. People on welfare are generally strongly stigmatized and rejected. And if a discussion among Americans heads for strong stigmatization and rejection, ethnic and racial comments somehow mysteriously but consistently show up.
Americans are race-nuts. Many white Americans consider Latino's to be non-white, while England and Spain/Portugal are closer together then major American cities, barely 600 miles apart.
If you are 7/8 European, 1/8 African, then you are nontheless considered to be "black". If you put a bit of cream in your coffee, is it then a cup of cream?
There are three places where north-Europeans genocided the local population and have colonized to this day, being South Africa, Australia and the USA. Of those three the USA still has most who survived the genocide tucked away in "reservations", a practice South Africa tried to copy by putting the black Africans in "homelands". South Africa has had it's Truth Commission. Australia is reluctantly accepting that they have wronged the Aborigines. America basically said: injuns, here's your peyote, n*ggers, here's some rights and now SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Imagine that in times of Apartheid South Africa had made a "reality" series like "Cops". They would've been bombed! But the US merrily exported it worldwide... Well the whole white world, at least.
"Affirmative Action" is bitterly fought. Now you may agree or disagree with what comprises contemporary "affirmative action" but the average "outspoken" white American will basically fight any advance of his non-white countrymen, if that means a temporary setback for themselves. Objectivity is lost. And after over 100 years the Ku Klux Klan is still legal and even has a TV station.
The heart of the matter in my view are the position of the media and their puppeteers, the Government, who made fear politics and "divide and conquer" into standard domestic and international politics.
But in a nutshell: I believe it's as strong as it was, but in all shapes and guises. Currently the focus of hate and fear lies on the middle east. Guantanamo Bay is nothing less then a Concentration Camp. A place that violates just about any international law in the book. And what is one of it's restrictions? Ah right: only non-Americans can end up there. Nuff said.
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exclusive58
illegal alien
Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 6 years, 11 days
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: California]
#4041414 - 04/11/05 02:38 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Oregon said: Racism exists, and always will, as long as there are distinctively different races.
I disagree, simply becuase there are no distinctively different races. We're all humans. We just need to get our collective head out of our collective ass and realize that the colour of a man's skin is of no more significance than the colour of his eyes. (thanx Bobby)
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But IMO it is on it's way out.
I hope you're right.
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America welcomes many different races. What is a more racially diverse country? While so many races co-existing in America does provide grounds for racism/racial discrimination, it also allows for these different races to learn about and grow comfortable with each other.
Well see, you're right about America being such a racially diverse country, but its not a melting pot, its a salad bowl. All the blacks get together and live in the same neighborhood, all the whites move to the suburbs, etc... I don't think this shows that these different "races" are comfortable with each other! They're actually avoiding each other it seems.
Doesn't this point towards the fact that racism is still alive and kicking in the US?
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Gijith
Daisy Chain Eater
Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
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When I was growing up, my parents would have a foreign exchange student stay with us most summers. Usually from France or Germany. The German kids were, of course, way cooler. But some of the French kids were also very interesting. All very nice and polite. And our relationships were always mutually respectful. In fact, they could have easily passed for Americans. It was a very refreshing... Then, one spring, I flew over to Rennes for a few weeks, where I finally encountered French adults. Very different. Almost all of them treated me as 1) a poor ignorant American to be pitied, or 2) a dangerous ignorant American to be ridiculed. They wanted to know if I enjoyed being 'shocked', if I owned a gun, and why I wasn't fat. Lots of jaded views toward America (yet, if I turned on the radio, television or walked past a movie theater, I felt like I was back home).
Maybe there's some common factor that spurs racist thoughts as we get older. This has all resurfaced lately as I've started to notice some new racist tendencies in my thinking. I've lived in mixed neighborhoods before. Black, white, hispanic, whatever. I was always fiercely open minded and cool with everybody... For the last year, I've been living in a complex that's about 80% asian. Chinese and Korean mostly. And now, at the age of 23, I can't help myself from hating these asians. I think it kinda boils down to one thing: I'm very threatened by them. They're beyond me in numbers and intelligence. And I have to compete against them academically.
And I think that same fear is the usual force behind racism the world over. It just happens to be perpetual in American society, as we are such a melting pot. But I think that America, as a country, has come a very long way and will continue to do so... I think I can accurately say that the vast vast majority of Americans don't want to be racist. It's not something that we consciously pursue. It's simply that sometimes circumstance and ignorance get the better of us.
Now, exclusive, I'm forced to turn the tables. Despite my poor French, I picked up on many conversations where Muslims were being harshly insulted during my trip. Even as far north as Rennes. Is this not a problem across the pond?
-------------------- what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?
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exclusive58
illegal alien
Registered: 04/16/04
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Last seen: 6 years, 11 days
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4041480 - 04/11/05 02:52 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
Americans are race-nuts.
ya see that's what i was thinking, i just wasn't too sure and wanted confirmation.
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And after over 100 years the Ku Klux Klan is still legal and even has a TV station.
Are you serious! that's crazy.
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The heart of the matter in my view are the position of the media and their puppeteers, the Government, who made fear politics and "divide and conquer" into standard domestic and international politics.
But in a nutshell: I believe it's as strong as it was, but in all shapes and guises. Currently the focus of hate and fear lies on the middle east. Guantanamo Bay is nothing less then a Concentration Camp. A place that violates just about any international law in the book. And what is one of it's restrictions? Ah right: only non-Americans can end up there. Nuff said.
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exclusive58
illegal alien
Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 6 years, 11 days
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Gijith]
#4041538 - 04/11/05 03:14 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gijith said: And I think that same fear is the usual force behind racism the world over. It just happens to be perpetual in American society, as we are such a melting pot. But I think that America, as a country, has come a very long way and will continue to do so... I think I can accurately say that the vast vast majority of Americans don't want to be racist. It's not something that we consciously pursue. It's simply that sometimes circumstance and ignorance get the better of us.
Yes, i agree with you. And this is where "Bowling for Columbine" is a nice witness to what you are saying. Because people don't really want to be racist, its more like they are conditioned to. The media plays a huge role in this, its the main circumstance that you're talking about. But at the same time you can't put all the blame on the media, cuz the fact is that people are ignorant. So yes, when you say "It's simply that sometimes circumstance and ignorance get the better of us", i totally agree with you, and its something that is rather sad to see.
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Now, exclusive, I'm forced to turn the tables. Despite my poor French, I picked up on many conversations where Muslims were being harshly insulted during my trip. Even as far north as Rennes. Is this not a problem across the pond?
Actually, about 10 miles from where i live, the police discovered a house where lots of weapons and ammunitions, as well as lots old Nazi objects, weapons, books (multiple copies of Mein Kampf were found) etc.. They even talked about this on the evening news. Where i live, there's a majority of old retired folks and the extreme right party (fascists) usually gets a high score when its time to vote (an average of 15%). And its funny because around here there are practically only white people, and in big cities where there are lots of blacks asians and muslims, the extreme-right party gets practically no score, like 2%.
So yes, its a big problem in france as well, French people do have a problem with strangers, France has a history of xenophobicism, but i think there's a slight difference between being xenophobic and being racist. But both have the same root; fear. And it depends where you find yourself in France, just like for the US.
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Phluck]
#4041555 - 04/11/05 03:19 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Logical conclusion? Could you explain that to me?
If it is not a race's fault for their own failure, then the only possible explanation for their failure is racism against them. The subject of ambition or intelligence cannot be discussed, because modern society insists we are "all equal". But the facts are we are not. You can list mind boggling statistics about different races in jails and their income levels, and it is ALL attributed to racism against them.
Uh, thanks to the ways genes spread, and the massive mixing of cultures due to advances in communication and transportation, the races are becoming closer, if anything.
Besides a select few, blacks marry blacks, asians marry asians, and mexicans marry mexicans, and whites marry whites. The disproportionate amount of blacks in jails and at the poverty level of society does not seem to be changing even remotely enough to say we are becoming "closer".
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: looner2]
#4041598 - 04/11/05 03:26 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
You can list mind boggling statistics about different races in jails and their income levels, and it is ALL attributed to racism against them.
That is because, if you allow yourself to do some complex thinking about the current situation and it's ramifications, the "mind boggling difference" is to the full extent of it's significance, brought about by racism.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4041614 - 04/11/05 03:30 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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"Affirmative Action" is bitterly fought. Now you may agree or disagree with what comprises contemporary "affirmative action" but the average "outspoken" white American will basically fight any advance of his non-white countrymen, if that means a temporary setback for themselves. Objectivity is lost.
An advancement of "non-white countrymen" is not to implement state sponsored racism.
That seems to be the prevalent liberal thought nowadays. It is "ok" to be racist against whites, but not against blacks.
A couple months ago a black leader named, shabazz or something visited the University of Pittsburgh. While here he made some interesting statements...
A white student asked shabazz if he hated him because he was white. Shabazz said he presumed he was a racist, and refused to shake his hand.
During the speech the lights accidently went out for about 20 seconds. He said, and I quote, "They want us to get scared and leave", he then started a chant of "black power" as the audience joined in.
He later said, " we are the orginal people of this planet, we produced the white man".
The cool thing about this was the coverage in the paper the next day. You would think and hope the wonderful liberal newspaper would speak out against his racism, but no... he got front page and not a single negative thing said about him. No letters sent to the paper in the following weeks denouncing him either... nothing.
Racism is accepted in liberal minds these days, as long as its against the whites.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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exclusive58
illegal alien
Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 6 years, 11 days
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Quote:
RandalFlagg said: In fact, I'm willing to bet the asshole ratio in France matches the asshole ratio in America.
hehe, i've actually thought about this one before, and although its true that there are many assholes in france, i think that the american asshole ratio is far greater than the french one
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I will also agree with you that the "anti-French" thing in America seems to have gone a bit far. I think a lot of it has to do with the "attitude" that Americans perceive from French people. I can't nail down any specifics, but I get the feeling that a lot of French people have this "I am an enlightened European and you are a neaderthal American" attitude.
i'm just guessing, but maybe it has to do with the fact that americans just let themselves be lead by their government like little sheeps. you guys are so easily manipulated. us french people, when we're not happy with what's going on, we let the whole world know! we go marchin' in the streets, we go on strike, basically, we just use our power! but you guys just submit to the power. you don't let your voice be heard. so from the outside, it seems like the voice of the population of America is the voice of Bush, the governemnt. And although we're not as stupid as to think that all americans agree with Bush, that's what it seems like!
but that's just me rambling...
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: looner2]
#4041655 - 04/11/05 03:38 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
WICCAN_SEEKER said: . "Affirmative Action" is bitterly fought. Now you may agree or disagree with what comprises contemporary "affirmative action" but the average "outspoken" white American will basically fight any advance of his non-white countrymen, if that means a temporary setback for themselves. Objectivity is lost.
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LOONER2 said: . An advancement of "non-white countrymen" is not to implement state sponsored racism.
That seems to be the prevalent liberal thought nowadays. It is "ok" to be racist against whites, but not against blacks.
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WICCAN_SEEKER repeats: . Objectivity is lost.
State sponsored racism against whites? The USA? You call yourself looner, I call you a nutter.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4041696 - 04/11/05 03:45 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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That is because, if you allow yourself to do some complex thinking about the current situation and it's ramifications, the "mind boggling difference" is to the full extent of it's significance, brought about by racism.
Thank you for proving my point.
Homicide Offense Rate by Race (1976-2000):
White 5.1 per 100,000 Blacks 39.3 per 100,000 Others: 5.2 per 100,000
Racist fucking white pieces of shit, look how many blacks they forced into MURDERING someone. Down with the white man.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
Edited by looner2 (04/11/05 03:47 PM)
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Quote:
you guys are so easily manipulated.
Now you're stirring up a riot! Get real, you don't want that said about your country, ei? Chauvinism is a French word.
Democracy is also a French word. In the US it's just one of two political parties, and the others have the ball now. FOUR MORE YEARS!
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us french people, when we're not happy with what's going on, we let the whole world know! we go marchin' in the streets, we go on strike, basically, we just use our power!
Ah but here you're wrong! The Americans do that too. But you underestimate the fact that the US is a totalitarian regime led by a dictor. When there were anti-Iraq war protests ("Not In My Name", you must've heard that) the authorities merrily turned some old building that was polluted weith chemicals into a mini Concentration Camp with 1000s of inmates in the New York harbour!
It's just like in France, or Holland, or Pakistan. THE MASSES ARE ASSES. The Shroomery would never have condoned the Iraq war. But every country is misled by their leaders and if millions of sheep start the stampede in one direction, you can't go another way.
The opposition in the US is *LOUD* but they are swept under the rug by the media.
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so from the outside, it seems like the voice of the population of America is the voice of Bush, the governemnt.
Thats because you know most of em through the media, the same media that supress the voices of protest. Only 1:1 contact with Americans, real or online, will paint you the true picture. Please note the Internet community is the intellectual elite though! If the Shroomery was the true world, the world would be a better place. It's a special place we got here.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: looner2]
#4041741 - 04/11/05 03:56 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Looner:
Transcend your closed-mindedness. You repeat yourself like I did not understand you, but my answers to the things you repeat are all over my earlier posts. Please address those.
Homicide rates among whites in Vietnam during the war were rather high too. You got to look at the whole situation, not a dumb statistic. NOTHING PROMOTES MURDER LIKE ENVIROMENT. WHO WOULD COLLECTIVELY CHOOSE LIVE IN CONDITIONS THAT PROMOTE HOMICIDAL BEHAVIOR?
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
Edited by Asante (04/11/05 03:59 PM)
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4041875 - 04/11/05 04:29 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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State sponsored racism against whites? The USA? You call yourself looner, I call you a nutter.
True or False
1.) A white applying for a job has a greater chance of being turned down based on color with respect to government instituted laws and regulations.
2.) A black applying for a job has a greater chance of being hired based on his color with respect to government instituted laws and regulations.
I'll give a hint, they are both true. This is an example of state-sponsored racism.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4041922 - 04/11/05 04:36 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Homicide rates among whites in Vietnam during the war were rather high too. You got to look at the whole situation, not a dumb statistic. NOTHING PROMOTES MURDER LIKE ENVIROMENT. WHO WOULD COLLECTIVELY CHOOSE LIVE IN CONDITIONS THAT PROMOTE HOMICIDAL BEHAVIOR?
It is a dumb statistic that blacks are 8 times more likely to kill someone than a white? Sounds horrible to me, but then again, murdering is wrong in my book. It is not one of those liberal "gray" areas that you seem fond of speaking of.
Murder is the killing of a human being. It transcends environment and neighborhood, it goes beyond having a "bad" influence and not getting a new CD every christmas. It shows a severe lack of moral development, and a profound inability to look past ones own ego. In one word, it describes a savage.
Blacks do this 8 times more often than anyone else. That tells me something.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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I'm not racist or anything... but really a lot of minorities have more benefits in USA then if you were white...
I can't get a scholorship on the basis of my ethnicity, and if they were to have an all white college, I'm sure the double standard wouldn't hold up. African Americans can have BET, if they were to announce a WET... shit would hit the fan, (not talking in regards to media/television as it is dominantly white) as for some reason having an all white channel more then likely wouldn't go over so well.
Regardless of that, the youth are dumb over where I am. Gangs, the blood/crypt deal, qualification of people and if they are "shady" or not on the basis of their ethnicity is rampant. People bitching about filthy Mexicans stealing all the jobs, people bitching that black people (often they refer to them as Niggers) are all theifs and drug addicts. Ultimately it's not really an issue, as ignorance has always been around, the greater issue is the ignorant people.
So, with the bias of scholastic achievements among other things, and giving those of certain races better treatement in certain situations, what else should we expect? We openly promote racial distinction, such that the obvious result is racial descrimination.
-------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: looner2]
#4042077 - 04/11/05 05:08 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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You're dazzled by numbers.
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Murder is the killing of a human being. It transcends environment and neighborhood.
No it does not. If I place you in the Vietnam war and some guy storms you with a hissing grenade, you shoot him without thinking. Without regard if he's a yellow Viet Cong or a white, yellow, red or black platoonmember who's gone wild. Thats enviroment for you.
Murder? A bit of premeditation, the pull of the trigger in a state of unrealness by reflex or psychological withdrawal and then a lifetime of regret.. or nothing at all. The sad truth is that we all are readily brought into a killing mindset. Hey, we're apes, no better than any Hominid before or after humanity in that aspect. Take a close look at war situation: To not kill people is little more then an agreement amongst ourselves. A madman who shoots 20 people at the post office gets shot or the chair. A soldier who shoots 20 enemies gets a purple heart (and PTSD but thats after the fact)
So the murder capability statistic is
99.000/100.000
20.000/100.000 is the actual number of combat soldiers who do kill
and you're talking about a mere marginal one or two digits? That is just about ENTIRELY caused by the enviroment the people live in, which for blacks in many places resembles an empoverished war zone more then for whites. Who would want to voluntarily live in a war zone? Have you ever had the thought people don't want to live in a ghetto-like enviroment, but are trapped there by economic factors?
Please produce a statistic on the wealth distribution in the US across racial lines. Poverty is correlated with desperation and desperation is associated with violence and murder.
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In one word, it describes a savage.
Now that sounds a bit like the good ole fashion racism.
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That tells me something.
What your line of reasoning tells me is that you see what you want to see and restrict your thought to affirming what you think to know.
20.000/100.000 soldiers kill in a combat situation.
20.000 is pretty far removed from 32.
And how many black soldiers did you count committing the atrocities in that Iraqi prison? A bit less than the number of black soldiers in the Army. That was a white racist game. Those were white creampuffs, pampered by a racist culture, who were as evil as Saddam's own, after having been out of America for mere weeks. Yeeeeee-haww! You don't see European soldiers doing that. You don't see black American soldiers doing that.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
Edited by Asante (04/11/05 05:11 PM)
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Catalysis
EtherealEngineer
Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4042109 - 04/11/05 05:16 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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My friend was hospitalized a few months ago after being nearly beaten to death because he was white. He was just walking home from my house and minding his own business when a group of people started calling him names and jumped him.
Of course, I live in chicago so i guess thats the risk you take walking around here.
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Catalysis]
#4042198 - 04/11/05 05:34 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
My friend was hospitalized a few months ago after being nearly beaten to death because he was white. He was just walking home from my house and minding his own business when a group of people started calling him names and jumped him.
That's a horrible story. I hope he'll be ok. The way you tell it is was a racist attack. It would be no reason to start hating the ethnic group to which those criminals belong to. (I know you're not saying that) The ones who did this, if your version is correct, committed a racist attack and should be ran through the penile system for that.
I have great understanding for the likeliness of human violence, but those who commit it out of anything but clear defense are by no means excused from bearing the consequences of it.
If you victimize, you pay the price. I hope your friend will be allright.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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DirtMcgirt
in a pinch
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Catalysis]
#4042397 - 04/11/05 06:31 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Racism against whites is more tolerated in general than racism from whites. In the media this is due, in my opinion, to white guilt(of numerous past atrocities and a current domination economically, culturally, and politically) allowing such things to happen. This also affirms stupid racist rhetoric from whites in believing whatever they want as they start to see themselves as victims in our society which is hardly the case. I find nothing wrong with black solidarirty or white solidarity or la raza or whatever but blaming the "white man" the "niggers" or the "mexicans" for your own or your countries problems is obtuse at best. This is getting better though but as it stands it is still very prevailent.
Also, the economic and social trends here affirm racist leanings (blacks are criminals and whites are rice, racist, elitists etc.) Just read looner's rants in this thread for a better description of this.
Racism is just as prevalent among all races here. It doesn't only exist as your stereotypical suburban white person assuming every latino is a gardener. I live in LA (not in the white-bred western part either) and I (white-boy) encounter racist BS daily. It used to get to me but I've come to the realization that it all comes in full circle and I imagine a black man living in South Dakota feels the same way. If somebody dislikes me because I'm white fuck 'em and if they try and rob me assuming I have money they will be in for a sorry suprise in the form of an empty wallet and buck knife in their belly.
Whats all this lead to? Well, racism breeds racism out of bitterness and self-victimization. You can't force onto people a belief system but a start would be to remove racist policies in our government (affirmative action on one end & unequal public school funding on the other etc, ect, etc...) and representation in our media (like racist double standards, demonizing stereotypes, and removing unequal access to our media sources [media consolidation]) only then will the race problem grow from its plateau its been at since the civil rights movement of the 60s. After that assimilation and acceptance can only follow in time.
-------------------- "And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Catalysis]
#4042468 - 04/11/05 06:46 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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.
Edited by DieCommie (11/21/16 01:45 PM)
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Catalysis
EtherealEngineer
Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4042487 - 04/11/05 06:51 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
Quote:
My friend was hospitalized a few months ago after being nearly beaten to death because he was white. He was just walking home from my house and minding his own business when a group of people started calling him names and jumped him.
That's a horrible story. I hope he'll be ok. The way you tell it is was a racist attack. It would be no reason to start hating the ethnic group to which those criminals belong to. (I know you're not saying that) The ones who did this, if your version is correct, committed a racist attack and should be ran through the penile system for that.
I have great understanding for the likeliness of human violence, but those who commit it out of anything but clear defense are by no means excused from bearing the consequences of it.
If you victimize, you pay the price. I hope your friend will be allright.
Yeah he will be ok. He had a bruised kidney and 2 cracked ribs, mostly from kicks to the torso but thankfully someone called the police and he was taken to the hospital right away.
Of course I realize that many blacks face the same stuff when going through white neigborhoods. Its just that now i am honestly scared when i walk to the L train and i see black people down my street. Does that make me racist? I have always considered myself very open to everyone of all genders, races, and creeds. I don't really know what to think at this point.
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DirtMcgirt
in a pinch
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: DieCommie]
#4042546 - 04/11/05 07:07 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Most racism in the US is against whites. There is also state approved racism in the form of quotas for universities and government jobs.
This is coming from a white man's perspective and is exactly what I'm talking about. This shit annoys me too but it doesn't amount to more racism against whites than other race. You experience racism against whites but you don't experience racism against Blacks or Latinos or whatever. If you asked a Latino or a Black or Native who has the worst of it your going to get a different answer every time I suspect. In the the end it all amounts to self-victimization.
There is an equal amount or government sponsered racism against other races as well not only racial quotas at schools.
-------------------- "And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Quote:
exclusive58 said: IMO, the french bashing is a result of the anti-french propaganda (because of the Iraq war)
That definately contributed to it. However, in my opinion there has always been a slight anti-French sentiment amongst a lot of Americans. I think it is mainly because of the "French people are snobs" stereotype.
Quote:
exclusive58 said: i was more wondering about the actual state of racism of blacks in the US.
It is definately present in America. But in my opinion, black racism towards white people is just as prevalent and much more socially acceptable than white racism towards black people.
Let's just be honest....every group seems to have a gripe about every other group.
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: DirtMcgirt]
#4042567 - 04/11/05 07:13 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
DirtMcgirt said: There is an equal amount or government sponsered racism against other races as well not only racial quotas at schools.
Example?
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ShroomOmatic
Ethno Apprentice
Registered: 10/14/04
Posts: 2,373
Loc: Sailing the Seas of Chees...
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There is alwase gonna be racist no matter where you go as far as government goes there might be some racism but not as bad as it was in the 60's and 70's.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4042602 - 04/11/05 07:28 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said: If you observe Americans you notice a strong tendency to categorize and condemn.
Everybody categorizes and condemns. I have heard Europeans bash Americans. I have heard Muslims bash Americans. Recently, I have even heard of anti-Muslim sentiment amongst Europeans.
Ever hear of how African tribes go nuts and start hacking each other with machetes? Racism, xenophobia, categorization, ethnic tension, and distrust are not things that Americans have a monopoly on. It is a human trait, not an American trait.
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Wiccan_Seeker said: Americans are race-nuts.
That is an unsubstantiated stereotype.
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Wiccan_Seeker said: the average "outspoken" white American will basically fight any advance of his non-white countrymen
And after over 100 years the Ku Klux Klan is still legal and even has a TV station.
Of course the KKK is legal. They are a group of individuals who hold certain beliefs. Organizing and holding outspoken beliefs is allowed in the U.S.
However, the actual power of the KKK is pathetic. What does the KKK or any white racist group do nowadays? Once a year or so, they manage to get 15 or 20 people to stand on courthouse steps in robes and yell "nigger". And they have a TV station that is probably watched by 30 or 40 people. They DON'T have any respectability, authority, or power. These people are universally ridiculed and condemned. They are not to be taken seriously.
Yet, when a black radical comes to speak at a college, hundreds can show up and angrily shake their heads in agreement when he engages in obviously anti-white statements and victimization pandering. Officials will kiss his ass. The press will kiss his ass. He has legitimacy and power.
Black racism towards whites is acceptable. White racism towards blacks is not acceptable. It is political correctness run amok.
Quote:
Wiccan Seeker said: the Government, who made fear politics and "divide and conquer" into standard domestic and international politics.
These weird Left-Wing conspiracy theories baffle me. What exactly are you trying to say here? That the U.S. government causes racism? No, it doesn't. People do that on their own.
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DirtMcgirt
in a pinch
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: DieCommie]
#4042619 - 04/11/05 07:34 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well there is that whole Indian reservation thing (we gave you casinos, what more do you want!) Just as males are prejudiced against in child custody battles the whole judicial system is prejudiced against blacks and latinos in criminal cases and there are stats to prove it(please don't make me dig up a source for that, it should be common knowledge by now)--I'd say that trumps any university quota system.
-------------------- "And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Quote:
exclusive58 said: All the blacks get together and live in the same neighborhood, all the whites move to the suburbs, etc... I don't think this shows that these different "races" are comfortable with each other! They're actually avoiding each other it seems.
Doesn't this point towards the fact that racism is still alive and kicking in the US?
There is uneasiness in being around people who are "not your kind". When I say "not your kind", I don't mean just race, I also mean people who live different lifestyles than you (different beliefs or cultural backgrounds for example).
The main reason that white people move to the suburbs and away from black people is because in America, black people are much more likely to commit crimes than white people. This means that black neighborhoods are much more likely to have high crime rates. A lot of white people don't want to live in an environment like that, so they move.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Quote:
exclusive58 said: americans just let themselves be lead by their government like little sheeps. you guys are so easily manipulated. us french people, when we're not happy with what's going on, we let the whole world know! we go marchin' in the streets, we go on strike, basically, we just use our power! but you guys just submit to the power.
I live in America and I don't know a single person who approves of the Iraq war and how it appears to have gone down.
We're not all sheep.
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: DirtMcgirt]
#4042671 - 04/11/05 07:46 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
DirtMcgirt said: Well there is that whole Indian reservation thing (we gave you casinos, what more do you want!)
They are allowed to move to "US territory" if they want. There was state racism against them in the past sure, but that is simply not the case now. There are tons of Navajo here in Phoenix. Are you saying because they are allowed to have semi-sovereignty from the federal government that is somehow racist against them? Seems like racism for them.(keeping in mind they are not forced to stay there like they were a hundred years ago.)
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DirtMcgirt said: Just as males are prejudiced against in child custody battles
Males are not a race.
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DirtMcgirt said: the whole judicial system is prejudiced against blacks and latinos in criminal cases
Thats not true at all. And if it does happen it is clearly illegal according to US law.
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BanJankri
FreefallerUpwards
Registered: 07/27/04
Posts: 1,392
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
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Read one of the recent articles by Samuel Huntington : the hispanic challange. Its simply hilarious. He's just so full of b.s. I still wonder how he gets his work published in the foreign policy journal.
-------------------- Just let everything flow, just flow right to the center of everything. You gotta turn off your mind and relax, and then just float downstream...
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4042797 - 04/11/05 08:13 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Affirmative Action has the effect of simultaneously being racist towards whites, fostering racism towards minorities, and hiding the real social problems facing those minorities.
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Silversoul]
#4042824 - 04/11/05 08:18 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said: Affirmative Action has the effect of simultaneously being racist towards whites, fostering racism towards minorities, and hiding the real social problems facing those minorities.
Well put! I have to remeber that statement.
I think it is also worthwhile to note, the majority of those that "benefit" from affirmative action are against it. Many surveys of minorities show they are categorically against it. And when the issue hits the polls (if it hits the polls) it is almost always voted down.
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DirtMcgirt
in a pinch
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Silversoul]
#4042941 - 04/11/05 08:51 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thats not true at all. And if it does happen it is clearly illegal according to US law.
Here are some statistics and articles for you:
like in NJ an black man is 10 times more likely that a white man to get the death penalty
http://www.uncp.edu/home/vanderhoof/dp-news/nj-race.html
If you want more here are other articles on criminal justice and race inequality.
http://racerelations.about.com/od/raceandcriminaljustice/
It is illegal but does and has existed and wouldn't a black man take that as racism from his judicial system---a government institution?
Or the fact that Natives, Latinos, and blacks are disproportionately represented in state and federal governments? Wouldn't you feel discriminated against? Does this amount to less or more racism in relation to whites by the government? Who are you or I to say?
Quote:
Males are not a race.
Thanks you for clearing that up. I was making an analogy. Do you believe males are discriminated against in child custody battles? If you do (you should, btw) how can you say it doesn't happen against blacks in criminal cases--there is that pesky self-victimization thing...
All I'm saying is that the government is racist against all races in all sorts of ways and to claim it is moreso against whites solely based on university quotas is weak.
-------------------- "And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."
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DirtMcgirt
in a pinch
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: DirtMcgirt]
#4042954 - 04/11/05 08:54 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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-------------------- "And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: DirtMcgirt]
#4042979 - 04/11/05 09:02 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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About the male discrimination... Yes i believe there is discrimination against males in that case, but im ok with it. I think females should win *most* custody battles, because i think they are better at raising the kid. There is inherent difference between the sexes, but not the races.
I understand you position on race with the death penalty issue. I used to feel that way, and still do to a point. I do however think there is more to it than racism, including but not limited to, the horrid state of the average black family (or lack there of), lack of strong positive male role models, which leads to brutal offenses. A good way to end this so called racism on the death penalty issue would be to execute all murderers and rapists.
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Catalysis
EtherealEngineer
Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: DirtMcgirt]
#4042993 - 04/11/05 09:06 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
DirtMcgirt said: more death penalty stats:
http://racerelations.about.com/gi/dynami...e%2Fdeath03.htm
You have to accept the fact that blacks are proportionately commiting more crimes than other races. Try living in an urban black area and tell me that the number of black convictions is due to a racist court system. There are problems, but its not the courts.
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newuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: DieCommie]
#4043044 - 04/11/05 09:20 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Thats not true at all. http://www.ussc.gov/crack/APPNDXB.HTM
Quote:
The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) urged the Sentencing Commission to request Congress to eliminate the penalty provisions that distinguish crack cocaine from powder cocaine. In its written submission, the ACLU presented many of the findings of a panel of experts that participated in its 1993 national symposium, "Racial Bias in Cocaine Laws." The ACLU stated, "the overwhelming testimony of the expert's (sic) panel was that the mandatory minimum sentences for crack cocaine are not medically, scientifically or socially supportable, are highly inequitable against African Americans, and represent a national drug policy tinged with racism."
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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So because the sentences are more harsh for crack use, that is somehow racist? Crack is not a race. And even if blacks are more likely to use crack, that does not in any way mean there is state sponsored racism against them.
Did it ever occur to you that crack is a heinous drug that makes people crazy and this is why it scares those who make laws? I smoked it for a while when i was 17 (btw im not black) and it is nothing like pot or shrooms (or even powder coke). Crack does make people more dangerous.
Plus that statement is from the ACLU They will perpetuate the idea of racism forever, or until there is only one race.
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newuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: DieCommie]
#4043341 - 04/11/05 10:35 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Did you even read that link? There are many more groups of people than just the ACLU that consider the crack/cocaine drug laws to be racially motivated. You should know that crack is just freebase cocaine.
3. Federal Public and Community Defenders
The Federal Defenders support elimination of the distinction between powder cocaine and crack cocaine. They cite disparate treatment, stating that crack cocaine offenses are committed overwhelmingly more by Blacks and that powder cocaine offenses are committed primarily by Whites. They also note a lack of scientific data confirming that crack cocaine is more dangerous than powder cocaine.
5. U.S. District Court Judges
Two U.S. District Court judges wrote of their concern about the 100-to-1 quantity ratio. One said, "[t]he ratio is irrational and leads to unfair sentences. Quantity based sentencing involving crack cocaine produces sentences, in many cases, that are harsh, have no deterrent impact and are grossly disproportionate." The second judge urged the Commission to ask Congress to eliminate the existing quantity ratio, stating that "[t]he Draconian sentences required for crack offenders are unconscionable."
11. Comments from an Assistant U.S. Attorney
An assistant U.S. attorney generally stated that the 100-to-1 quantity ratio was excessive. The prosecutor added two observations. First, he argued that the 100-to-1 ratio did not affect those Congress intended to target. He wrote, "in very few cases have the prosecutions in this district risen above the mid-level management level." Second, he noted that he could not identify any "deterrent impact, or positive social benefit resulting from federal prosecutions under the present penalty scheme."
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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No i did not read the link. I have heard the argument before and i simply dont buy it. And yes i know crack is just freebase coke, i have done both multiple times (unfortunately). The fact of the matter is crack is more dangerous, not to the user, but to other members of society. I always thought the idea that black people use crack was a bit over rated anyway. Most black drug users i know just smoke real expensive weed.
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4043621 - 04/11/05 11:51 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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No it does not. If I place you in the Vietnam war and some guy storms you with a hissing grenade, you shoot him without thinking. Without regard if he's a yellow Viet Cong or a white, yellow, red or black platoonmember who's gone wild. Thats enviroment for you.
You need to stay on topic. If you want to talk about morality and war then start a new thread, if you want to talk about murder as it pertains to race, then do so.
Murder? A bit of premeditation, the pull of the trigger in a state of unrealness by reflex or psychological withdrawal and then a lifetime of regret.. or nothing at all. The sad truth is that we all are readily brought into a killing mindset. Hey, we're apes, no better than any Hominid before or after humanity in that aspect.
That's all it takes for you? A "pull of the trigger in a state of unrealness". Thats golden. No wonder you liberals are so afraid of guns, your unable to control whatever impulse comes your way and can't even hold back from murder. I sure hope I don't cross a liberal with a gun when he is in a state of "unrealness".
Your ape comment makes no sense also. An ape does not have the ability to deduce morality. I don't think I need to go further.
Now that sounds a bit like the good ole fashion racism.
Or good ole fashion inability to read a post. Read what I said a savage was, ok?
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: DieCommie]
#4043684 - 04/12/05 12:20 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Most black drug users i know just smoke real expensive weed.
I dont know a single black person that smokes expensive weed. All the ones i know smoke the shitty shwag that i wont even touch.
-------------------- ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey. There is such emotion in the distortion.
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: looner2]
#4043827 - 04/12/05 01:22 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Looner: you are not addressing the issues I am raising. That is because you are incapable to, at least that's what shows in your responses.
Well, Exclusive58, throughout the thread you got the quality of US race debate once more. Whites are discriminated against far more then blacks by both the people and the government, and perhaps racism occurs in some faraway state but i've never seen it here. Of course the KKK is legal
Many are just as naive to the real issues to racism as if they never spent a straight thought on the matter. And I think that is true. If you are raised in a racism-based culture you can only later in life develop objectivity, but it is a harsh battle. Many just go with the flow and never start the process.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: looner2]
#4043868 - 04/12/05 01:34 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Didn't you say in another thread that Hitler was just "securing his nation and people" by trying to impose fascist dictatorship on Europe?
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tomk
King of OTD
Registered: 09/22/04
Posts: 1,559
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4043957 - 04/12/05 02:05 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Dude, you are seriously deluded if you think "Whites are discriminated against far more then blacks by both the people and the government"
That is laughable. Look at what happens in prisons. Even if every white person who applied for a job with a black applicant got turned down because of affirmative action, blacks would still be more oppressed then whites just because of what happens with stuff like tulia, texas, and prisons and parole and the military.
You are smarter then that. I've seen you make some really smart posts, but this is so stupid. Get your head out of your ass man.
-------------------- "I am eternally free"
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: tomk]
#4044337 - 04/12/05 04:05 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Well, Exclusive58, throughout the thread you got the quality of US race debate once more. Whites are discriminated against far more then blacks by both the people and the government, and perhaps racism occurs in some faraway state but i've never seen it here. Of course the KKK is legal
Quote:
TOMK said: . I've seen you make some really smart posts, but this is so stupid. Get your head out of your ass man.
Thanks a lot for that! I was merely reciting things said in this very thread, to illustrate the deplorable state the racism debate was in. I agree that people who write this kind if stuff should take a good long look at themselves and how they percieve the world they live in. I'm glad you consider that garbage uncharacteristic of my posting standard and that you firmly dismiss me for it. It's a sign you judge somebodys stance on their post, not their post history.
Contrary to the suggestion made before I am not a liberal. To put american politics in the world perspective: The Democrats/Liberals are a rightwing party and the Republicans are a reactionary party at the far end of the rightwing spectrum.
The most rightwing mainstream parties in Holland are the Christian DEMOCRATS (CDA) and the LIBERALS. (VVD)
The other of the top three mainstream parties is the Dutch Labour Party (PvdA) which is amorphous/socialist, and other main players are the Democrats 1966 (D66) which are comparable to the progressive American Democrats, you've got the Green Left (GroenLinks) being enviromentalists, the Socialist Party (Socialistische Partij) being non-communist true leftists, you've got the Dutch bible belt parties (RPF/protestants, SGP/reformists) and List Fortuyn+Leefbaar Nederland (the reactionaries, who got their leader's brain splattered across the pavement by a Vegan gunman ) and as the cherry on the cake the Ouderenpartij (Senior Citizen's Party) and we await a Dutch Muslim Party to emerge within the good tradition of European Democracy.
All in all you can say we have 16 national political parties for 16 million people on a piece of land the size of a US state. Then we have a myriad of regional and city-parties for local politics.
That is the true face of Democracy: a myriad of parties who can almost exclusively govern the country to following COALITIONS with likeminded parties. This is a great safeguard against dictators.
The US on the other hand is a totalitarian regime. They START wars against countries and against the UN/world community's rulings. They've got a concentration camp where human rights are violated routinely called guantanamo, despite international outrage. They've got Echelon to spy on the world like the soviets tried to, but never could. The DEA is a paramilitary organisation that is self-funding by jailing people and selling off their posessions (as was the Holocaust) and (like the Holocaust) they almost exclusively PATROL and thus TARGET non-white citizens. Martial Maw. Face it, America: you are a *rogue nation* as defined by international law, which has been the standard to determine this since World War Two, where you by the way mass-firebombed Tokyo, used the Atomic Bomb twice and shoved all Japanese Americans into concentration camps. While the American Nazi Party had great popularity until the war atrocities and the Holocaust became appearant. While blacks had no vote, had their *genitals cut off* and being lynched in the countryside. And the KKK is still legal. Yup.
American politics is rightwing and totalitarian, Republicans OR Democrats. Radicalism is favored and encouraged. This explains the disproportional number of race/political radicals among Americans, like in many other "rogue nations", but ofcourse in no way justifies it.
Suppose Bush threw a dart at the wold map and dropped an atomic bomb on the nation hit by his dart, he will have this justified and accepted by the bulk of his population within one month. Not the ones who will protest this, they will be met with tanks, sound weapons and unprecedentedly large clouds of tear gases. We've seen what happened with large "leftist" protests before.
Remember the helicopter crew that gunned crawling wounded unarmed Iraqis with a 20mm armor piercing gun, using night vision, at long distance? No prob. Four more years.
The atrocities at that Iraqi prison I keep mispronouncing? No prob. Four more years.
Bush's statement that they will invade Holland to free ANY american soldier that is tried for WARCRIMES at the International Peace Court of The Hague, NO MATTER WHAT HE HAD DONE? No prob. Four more years.
Debate in Congress to use tactical nuclear weapons in FUTURE armed conflicts? No prob. Four more years.
Violating international treaties, the Geneva convention, international human rights? no prob. Four more years.
Americans are living in, and are used to, a dictatorship/police state since before WW II. It is perfectly understandable that this clouds perception of things such as race issues. You're bread to be a slave and only through hard work can you become free. Free your mind.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4044344 - 04/12/05 04:12 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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I believe the KKK has a right to exist
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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If they completely sever the connection with their racist-terrorist past and publicly come clean and sincerely apologize for the crimes against the American People in the past and change course to an entirely non hate-inciting political stance of their choosing, they can exist as far as i care.
If they keep on the path of a racist, anti-democratic organisation proud of a racist violence and terrorism then they are a danger to national security and stability and should be disbanded or persecuted as a terrorist organisation.
They did liven up Jerry Springer shows though... man these guys are fucked up.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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question_for_joo
i'm left. youall can bite me
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 1,591
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4044518 - 04/12/05 06:03 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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My experience with black and hispanic people has been a confirmation of the stereotypes that are heard. They have usually been loud, aggressive, ignorant, criminally-minded, all that stuff... I'm not saying all of the blacks I've met, but a high high percent of them. I think that's why there's racism, cause the races are really different from one another.
-------------------- youi was a pig informatnt so you can go fuckyoruselfs
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4044869 - 04/12/05 09:02 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Looner: you are not addressing the issues I am raising. That is because you are incapable to, at least that's what shows in your responses.
I've enjoyed your snide remarks at the beginning of every post for this entire thread, but you really need to get a grasp of our conversation before you say that I'm "incapable" of answering your question.
Let's do this together.
Read what I wrote about your LONG diatribe about war and murder.
Now do me a favor and realize that there is a difference between killing in war and killing in society.
If you don't think there is a difference, then maybe we should argue that in another thread because it simply goes far beyond what we have been discussing.
If you think there is a difference, then you acknowledge that it is not a good example to base race and murder statistics on.
Either way, make a point through a different avenue, because the one you choose isn't relevant, nor make sense to the discussion at hand.
Soon we'll see who is "incapable" of carrying on our discourse.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: looner2]
#4044909 - 04/12/05 09:23 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Now do me a favor and realize that there is a difference between killing in war and killing in society.
Basically killing is killing, the rest is enviroment. People can feel exactly the same in peacetime like in wartime. Just as cornered, just as threatened, just as hunted and just as faced with "only one option" and then the killing starts.
It can be war in your head and even though you act like a soldier there is no war outside of you so you're a peacetime murderer.
Enviroment brings people in certain mindsets. I argue that the enviroment the average black person is in favors the act of killing more then the enviroment the average white person is in. If you look at empoverished whites who live in ghettos their murder rate is significantly higher too.
It is the desperation induced by the enviroment (war or peace, ghetto or beverly hills) that favors violent reactions, and an enviroment of violence triggers even more violence.
You are arguing that if you've got black people in ANY siruation that they are 8 times more likely to kill, which is BS.
The four letter word R.A.C.E answers all your questions and appearantly discourages you to venture beyond your point of view.
What will you accept as evidence that you are wrong? If you follow my line of reasoning you see your answer is unacceptable. If I follow your line of reasoning mine is unacceptable. What could I say, do or produce that would change your mind?
It looks to me like you are playing the game of formal debate for the game and not to test your own insights.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4045026 - 04/12/05 10:06 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Wiccan_Seeker said: The US on the other hand is a totalitarian regime. They START wars against countries and against the UN/world community's rulings.
Because the U.S. does not subjugate its will to the UN means that it is a "totalitarian regime"? In my opinion, the UN is a worthless organization that is not worth listening to. But, at the same time I disagree with the Bush administration on Iraq and pretty much everything else.
Wiccan_Seeker said: They've got a concentration camp where human rights are violated routinely called guantanamo, despite international outrage.
How are human rights violated there? I keep hearing about how this is so, yet I have heard of no examples. All I have heard is that people are held at Guantanamo while they await a military tribunal. How is that violating human rights?
You think human rights are being violated now? Just wait till I am in charge!
But seriously, I find it weird that people continually harp upon the fact that some people are being held in a prison.......and these same people don't mention how in a significant amount of other countries, much worse things happen.
Wiccan_Seeker said: They've got Echelon to spy on the world like the soviets tried to, but never could.
Everybody spies on everybody. It has been that way since the beginning of time. So what?
Wiccan_Seeker said: The DEA is a paramilitary organisation that is self-funding by jailing people and selling off their posessions
Drugs are illegal in every country. If you think American drug laws are draconian, go to Saudi Arabia where you will have your head cut off if you are caught with drugs.
Wiccan_Seeker said: they almost exclusively PATROL and thus TARGET non-white citizens.
Racial profiling is illegal in America.
Wiccan_Seeker said: Face it, America: you are a *rogue nation* as defined by international law
Wiccan_Seeker said: which has been the standard to determine this since World War Two, where you by the way mass-firebombed Tokyo used the Atomic Bomb twice
Since you are bringing up stuff that happened sixty years ago....is Germany a rogue nation because it bombed London to the ground?
Wiccan_Seeker said: While the American Nazi Party had great popularity until the war atrocities and the Holocaust became appearant. And the Nazi Party had great popularity in Germany, yet I don't see you harping on them. Racism existed in many countries and still does exist in many countries. Tribes in Africa hate each other. The Chinese and the Japanese hate each other. The North Koreans hate everybody. The Arabs hate the Jews. The Poles are distrustful of the Russians.
Oh that's right......America is the only racist and evil nation on earth.
Wiccan_Seeker said: While blacks had no vote, had their *genitals cut off* and being lynched in the countryside. How things have changed. Did you know that in recent decades, far more blacks have killed whites than whites have killed blacks? In fact, in America black males are eight times more likely to commit homicide than white males.
Wiccan_Seeker said: And the KKK is still legal. Yes, they are. And why should they be made illegal? Should we outlaw organizations because they are not "progressive" enough? I think the white supremacists should be watched....much like the extremist Muslims should be watched.
The KKK is a pathetic organization that has no power, while the NAACP has massive amounts of power. Isn't it weird how an organization dedicated to the advancement of black people is much more powerful than all of the organizations dedicated to the advancement of white people? America is infected with politically correct "progressiveness" more than you think.
Admittedly, America is a weird amalgamation of extremes. We have hopeless Lefties and wacko Righties.
Wiccan_Seeker said: the disproportional number of race/political radicals Every country has political radicals.
Wiccan_Seeker said: Suppose Bush threw a dart at the wold map and dropped an atomic bomb on the nation hit by his dart, he will have this justified and accepted by the bulk of his population within one month.
The bulk of the American population would not support that. Just because Bush got reelected doesn't mean that most Americans are happy about Iraq. It means that Kerry was an even worse choice than Bush (if you can believe that). And Kerry still got almost half of the votes in the election.
Wiccan_Seeker said: Not the ones who will protest this, they will be met with tanks, sound weapons and unprecedentedly large clouds of tear gases. We've seen what happened with large "leftist" protests before. You're thinking of communist countries. Protesters in those nations were met with tanks.
When Leftist groups protest peacefully, they are allowed to demonstrate. When Leftist groups rampage, they get tear gas shot at them. So what?
Wiccan_Seeker said: Remember the helicopter crew that gunned crawling wounded unarmed Iraqis with a 20mm armor piercing gun, using night vision, at long distance? Watch the whole video. The men were obviously engaged in some shenanigans. And what do the split-second actions of a few soldiers have to do with the Bush administration as a whole? If the soldiers acted innapropriately, they would have been prosecuted.
Wiccan_Seeker said: The atrocities at that Iraqi prison I keep mispronouncing? The soldiers that were involved in the abuse are being prosecuted. The Bush administration did not OK this behavior.
Wiccan_Seeker said: Debate in Congress to use tactical nuclear weapons in FUTURE armed conflicts? War is hell. So what?
Wiccan_Seeker said: Violating international treaties, the Geneva convention, international human rights? no prob. Four more years. Could you give some examples?
Wiccan_Seeker said: Americans are living in, and are used to, a dictatorship/police state since before WW II. It is perfectly understandable that this clouds perception of things such as race issues. Yes, our thoughts are "clouded" and we need "progressive" Europeans to "show us the light".
Wiccan_Seeker said: Free your mind. And become a hopelessly brainwashed Lefty? No thanks. I don't like the Bush administration, but I don't buy into all of the anti-Bush propaganda spewed by the Left.
Edited by RandalFlagg (04/12/05 10:10 AM)
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Quote:
The KKK is a pathetic organization that has no power, while the NAACP has massive amounts of power. Isn't it weird how an organization dedicated to the advancement of black people is much more powerful than all of the organizations dedicated to the advancement of white people?
Are you seriously putting the KKK and the NAACP into one category?
Quote:
You think human rights are being violated now? Just wait till I am in charge!
Then better not parade past my book depository
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4045231 - 04/12/05 10:57 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Wiccan_Seeker said: If they completely sever the connection with their racist-terrorist past and publicly come clean and sincerely apologize for the crimes against the American People in the past and change course to an entirely non hate-inciting political stance of their choosing, they can exist as far as i care.
If they keep on the path of a racist, anti-democratic organisation proud of a racist violence and terrorism then they are a danger to national security and stability and should be disbanded or persecuted as a terrorist organisation.
HA! And you have the nerve to call us totalitarian. See, in the US, we have this crazy concept called "freedom of speech." I know it sounds wierd to you foreign types, but it means that people are actually entitled to their own opinion. Crazy concept, I know.
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Silversoul]
#4045406 - 04/12/05 11:27 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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See, in the US, we have this crazy concept called "freedom of speech." I know it sounds wierd to you foreign types, but it means that people are actually entitled to their own opinion. Crazy concept, I know.
It is so crazy in fact that we foreign types INVENTED it. Oh right and we INVENTED Democracy. And because some people liked the idea of "democracy" they started the Democrat Party: to get this alien concept of "democracy" started in the US, reducing the GOP to a mere political party.
In America freedom of speech is bullshit. In America freedom of speech means "freedom to spew antisocial rhethoric". Its always the Klan and the Aryan Nation and the shiftier millitia that yell Freedom of Speech isn't it? It's always the bullies shouting that. But guess what: if you are in a US Library or Internet Cafe then look around and you'll see a warning by the management that Big Brother is Watching You.
Freedom of speech = The Right To Spew Bigotry. That is what FoS has become in America. Europe has got FoS too, but our bigots are a small antisocial minority. They don't get TV stations like the Klan
The bullies have got their freedom of speech. In no first-world country are the weak so powerless as in the USA.
Well Exclusive58, aren't you glad you started a thread on Racism in the US? Americans can be caught saying things are "Unamerican".. well, there fortunately are also things Un-European
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newuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4045572 - 04/12/05 12:03 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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In America freedom of speech is bullshit. In America freedom of speech means "freedom to spew antisocial rhethoric".
So what? Isn't that exactly what freedom of speech allows? You may very well disagree with the message but those are the messages freedom of speech is specifically designed to protect.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4045815 - 04/12/05 12:48 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Wiccan_Seeker said: In America freedom of speech is bullshit.
If freedom of speech is "bullshit" in America, why am I allowed to mercilessly criticize President Bush? I say whatever I want to. I have never been censored or told to shut up.
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Wiccan_Seeker said: In America freedom of speech means "freedom to spew antisocial rhethoric". Its always the Klan and the Aryan Nation and the shiftier millitia that yell Freedom of Speech isn't it? It's always the bullies shouting that.
Huh? What the hell are you talking about?
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Wiccan_Seeker said: But guess what: if you are in a US Library or Internet Cafe then look around and you'll see a warning by the management that Big Brother is Watching You.
From what I have gathered, the U.S. government does mass analyzing of information on the internet. There are many governments out there doing the same thing I'll bet. I don't agree with this.
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Wiccan_Seeker said: Freedom of speech = The Right To Spew Bigotry.
Freedom of speech = The right to say whatever you want to, including bigotry.
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Wiccan_Seeker said: That is what FoS has become in America. Europe has got FoS too, but our bigots are a small antisocial minority. They don't get TV stations like the Klan
Oh please..... You keep harping upon this TV station that the Klan runs. Who the fuck cares? I'll bet five people watch it. Anybody is allowed to give their opinion in the U.S., including the idiots. And the idiots are the ones who get the attention.
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Wiccan_Seeker said: The bullies have got their freedom of speech. In no first-world country are the weak so powerless as in the USA.
The "weak" sure do have it bad in America. When they get a free place to live (HUD), free food every month, free education for their children, and free medical care (Medicaid), they have it so bad.
Edited by RandalFlagg (04/12/05 07:13 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Wiccan Seeker has gone so far beyond reason and has produced zero backup for its nonsense that I nominate it for trollhood. Do I hear a second?
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Catalysis
EtherealEngineer
Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: zappaisgod]
#4047182 - 04/12/05 05:58 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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zappaisgod said: Wiccan Seeker has gone so far beyond reason and has produced zero backup for its nonsense that I nominate it for trollhood. Do I hear a second?
I think he just actually doesn't know that the "clan" and the "aryan nation" are just fringe minority groups with no power in the US.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4047214 - 04/12/05 06:05 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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In America freedom of speech is bullshit. In America freedom of speech means "freedom to spew antisocial rhethoric".
Yes, you do have the freedom to spew bullshit rhetoric like you've been doing. What of it?
Quote:
Its always the Klan and the Aryan Nation and the shiftier millitia that yell Freedom of Speech isn't it? It's always the bullies shouting that. But guess what: if you are in a US Library or Internet Cafe then look around and you'll see a warning by the management that Big Brother is Watching You.
Is Big Brother limiting what you can say?
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Freedom of speech = The Right To Spew Bigotry.
As any free society should have. Freedom of speech means nothing if it doesn't include the freedom to express unpopular views. If your country does not have that freedom, then it does not have freedom of speech.
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That is what FoS has become in America. Europe has got FoS too, but our bigots are a small antisocial minority. They don't get TV stations like the Klan
WHAT? I've lived in America my whole life, and NEVER have I seen or heard of the Klan having their own TV station.
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The bullies have got their freedom of speech. In no first-world country are the weak so powerless as in the USA.
Unless those weak people hold unpopular views, such as the KKK.
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DirtMcgirt
in a pinch
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Catalysis]
#4047848 - 04/12/05 09:07 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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You have to accept the fact that blacks are proportionately commiting more crimes than other races. Try living in an urban black area and tell me that the number of black convictions is due to a racist court system. There are problems, but its not the courts.
lol. I have and currently DO live in an urban area that contains a high percentage of blacks (there are more latinos here actually--Perhaps you've heard of it...Los Angeles). Needless to say I'll pass a white face walking to the liquor store maybe 1 out a 100 times.
My point is:
It is my guess along with a very large amount of other people too who believe (its impossible say for sure either way, even with a mountain of stats) if a black man and a white man were committed for the same crime with the same background and the same damn lawyer there is a percentage of liklihood that the black man would get a worse sentence. Not necessarily so, but I personally believe that it is a fact as well as many many black people do too. Its not an aryan conspiracy, just human fallacy. It IS due to the fact so many black people commit crimes but judges are supposed to be above such generalizations. We need a more diverse judiciary (not through some quota garbage either, its just disproportionate to population...I don't have asnwers, I just bitch. )
Sure, a certain % of Blacks overstate the racism in our government just as a % of whites do too.
My whole point in all this is that by claiming that any one race is being the most abused by our government's laws and actions is ridiculous. I think this whole thread was started under the European assumption that there are still lychings and segragation in the US probably becasue most Europeans (like Wiccan) have no idea what its like over here beyond their own 2 week vacation to NYC and anti-american generalizations within their culture.
Fact is, race relations in the US are horrible (as viewed in this thread) and are very slowly getting better.
-------------------- "And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."
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exclusive58
illegal alien
Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 6 years, 11 days
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4049061 - 04/13/05 03:56 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
Well, Exclusive58, throughout the thread you got the quality of US race debate once more. Whites are discriminated against far more then blacks by both the people and the government, and perhaps racism occurs in some faraway state but i've never seen it here. Of course the KKK is legal
Many are just as naive to the real issues to racism as if they never spent a straight thought on the matter. And I think that is true. If you are raised in a racism-based culture you can only later in life develop objectivity, but it is a harsh battle. Many just go with the flow and never start the process.
Ya it feels like this thread stirred shit up, and boy does it smell bad.
I think that there are still many many problems that America has to resolve concerning the race issue. And no i don't believe that there are still lots of lynchings and physical abuses done in the name of racism, i think that the problem today is first of all a psychological one.
And i agree to some point that america still has an inherent racist-based culture, which is a form of conditionning that is hard to get rid off, because them kids that get raised in such an environment will grow up to have the same mentality and will end up raising their kids in the same environment as well.
The kid who lives in a white neighborhood and who goes to a school where there aren't any black kids, that in itself is a form of conditionning. In such conditions, the diversity of society, which is essential for its right progression, cannot be put in place. There'll always be those psychological barriers.
But what i'm trying to get across here is much more complicated than it seems, and its not something i'm good at expressing.
I don't blame Americans though, its more a feeling of pity that i have. Because its not really YOUR fault, its more your history's fault and the fault of how your society came to be. How can you blame someone that's been conditioned? its easy to say "well look, you've been conditionned to think like that, but its really not like that", but the fact of the matter is that it's a real challenge go beyond your own limits. And its something I challenge all of you take!
I'll come back here in ten years and ask the same question and see how things have evolved
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Quote:
exclusive58 said: The kid who lives in a white neighborhood and who goes to a school where there aren't any black kids, that in itself is a form of conditionning. In such conditions, the diversity of society, which is essential for its right progression, cannot be put in place. There'll always be those psychological barriers.
I grew up in that very situation. All white school/neighborhood. I am not nor have I ever been racist.
IME people who are the MOST racist are the ones who grew up in a city with a large diverse community.
My wife grew up in a city with a high percentage of blacks......she is one of the MOST racist/prejudice people I know.
According to your statment...shouldnt I be a racist instead of her?
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4049102 - 04/13/05 04:42 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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If you look at the development of this thread you see it becoming increasingly intense until you arrive at a situation where both sides have dug trenches and are throwing stones and the frontline, the debate, moves not an inch. So to take a snapshot:
SIDE 1: America has got a serious problem with racism against minorities. This problem is caused by certain groups cultivating a culture of intolerance to reap benefits thereof.
SIDE 2: America has got no problem with racism against minorities. The minorities are genetically and socially inferior. It is their factual inferiority that is the problem, not racism.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. The question raised was about the extent of racism in the US. Since the tread is now dominated by SIDE 2 people I have come to the personal conclusion this very thread shows all too clear the extent of the problem and that is being made into a trench warfare that will lead nowhere. This is yet another issue where America will eat itself with the rest of the world picking up the pieces afterwards.
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4049294 - 04/13/05 06:16 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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What is most surprising to me is, people who dont live in America are telling Americans "how/why" their is racism in America.
Until your have spent more than a few weeks here.....you have NO IDEA what drives "American racism".
In order to truly understand racism here you will have to live here for a few years. Then you will get a feel for "how/why" their are still racist people in America.
I promise you it isnt as "cut and dry" as you think it is.
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: niteowl]
#4049430 - 04/13/05 07:26 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
I promise you it isnt as "cut and dry" as you think it is.
When you post, you simplify things, or you end up writing 10.000 words and get 10 back in one question about the first thing you said.
Quote:
Until your have spent more than a few weeks here.....you have NO IDEA what drives "American racism".
In order to truly understand racism here you will have to live here for a few years. Then you will get a feel for "how/why" their are still racist people in America.
Yes and no. You can live your whole life in America and have not a fleeting clue about what causes or drives it, just like you can drive your car all your life without knowing the workings of an internal combustion engine, driving around with a huge gasoline-sucking Bermuda Triangle under your hood
In order to understand racism in ANY country, you have to lay down hundreds of hours studying the phenomenon of racism before you can have an informed opinion. There's a lot of soulsearching involved, and alot of scrutiny of culture and media. You have to dismantle the barriers racist conditioning has put up within yourself. Can't do it in a year.
Once you know it's mechanisms you can readily identify it where ever it shows itself. You recognise the archetypes. The logic systems involved. And if you are familiar with a culture you recognise the patterning, because racism is a worldwide phenomenon.
Particularly media are rather powerful instruments of conditioning. A friend, vacationing in China, discovered an ingrained strong dislike of black people. These people have never seen or interacted with a single black person. They do watch Hollywood movies that feature them though. And they reproduced exactly the same stereotypes based on underlying racist archetypes that permeate western cultures. "Eat Mc Donalds: it's American! Hate black people: it's American!" a very odd message, but it's what comes across.
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Then you will get a feel for "how/why" their are still racist people in America.
In any western culture you are bred to be a racist, so you are racist by default until you've dismantled the racism instilled into you from kindergarten onward. And that's a long and painful process which 9/10 people find too much hassle to do.
Racism in the US is often very *blatant* and that goes against the grain of many Europeans, where racism is usually more subtle, but present nontheless.
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you have NO IDEA what drives "American racism".
Perhaps. Can you tell me what drives American racism? If I learn something new that stands, I'll take it with me from this day onward
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: zappaisgod]
#4049485 - 04/13/05 08:02 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Wiccan Seeker has gone so far beyond reason and has produced zero backup for its nonsense that I nominate it for trollhood. Do I hear a second?
seconded.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4049506 - 04/13/05 08:12 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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In America their really is not that many racists. They do exist but they are few and far between.
In America you have rampant prejudice which is different than racism
Many people get these two terms confused.
Being a racist means that you believe your race is better than all the other races. Their are not very many people (that I have met) that fall into this category, and I live in southern USA where the KKK thrives.
Being prejudice means that you make a instant judgment about a person. This is rampant not only in America but all over the planet. (E.U. included)
If a person says "get a job you lazy nigger" does that make them a racist?
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4049608 - 04/13/05 08:55 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said: SIDE 1: America has got a serious problem with racism against minorities. This problem is caused by certain groups cultivating a culture of intolerance to reap benefits thereof.
SIDE 2: America has got no problem with racism against minorities. The minorities are genetically and socially inferior. It is their factual inferiority that is the problem, not racism.
I swear, it never ceases to amaze me what utter bullshit you keep spewing. Who the fuck is saying minorities are genetically inferior? Sure, some may point out the fact that certain minorities don't perform as well in school, or are statistically more likely to commit crimes, but this is not racism. It is fact. One may speculate and theorize all day about the reason why this is, but it is not racist to state these statistical facts, nor is it racist to point out racism against whites.
Frankly, I'm getting pretty fed up with your arrogance. You don't live here, nor has anyone in this thread(that I've seen so far) made any claims of one race being inherently superior to others. Get over yourself and grow the fuck up. Your prejudice towards Americans is more blatant than any comments in this thread which you construe as "racism." Good day to you, sir!
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4049712 - 04/13/05 09:54 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said: If you look at the development of this thread you see it becoming increasingly intense until you arrive at a situation where both sides have dug trenches
SIDE 1: America has got a serious problem with racism against minorities. This problem is caused by certain groups cultivating a culture of intolerance to reap benefits thereof.
Why are you singling out America? Racism, prejudice, and xenophobia exist everywhere. I have listed mutliple examples of nations and ethnicities that dislike each other. What about the Serbs and the Croats? What about the Sunnis and the Shiites? What about the Arabs and the Kurds? There is tension between different ethnic and racial groups all over this world. If Europe is so enlightened, why do I keep hearing of tension between native Europeans and immigrating Muslims?
What groups are cultivating intolerance to reap benefits? What are you talking about? The only group that I can think of that is doing that is the NAACP. They support affirmative action which is legalized racism against white people.
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Wiccan_Seeker said: SIDE 2: America has got no problem with racism against minorities. The minorities are genetically and socially inferior. It is their factual inferiority that is the problem, not racism.
That is a complete lie. Nobody here has said blacks are genetically or socially inferior. Looner is the only person in the thread who has exhibited racist tendencies. I and several other people merely brought up the fact that American black people statistically commit more crimes than white people, they do more poorly in academic environments than white people, and they exhibit a lot of racism towards white people (which is allowed by society more than white racism towards blacks is allowed). From these statements you might think I hate black people or something. I don't. I have nothing against white people, but I don't like white scumbags (there are a lot of them). I have nothing against black people, but I don't like black scumbags (there are a lot of them).
You don't live in America. You don't know what it is like. You seem to think that every white person is racist and organizing a lynch mob. Come to this country and you will see a super anti-racist media (preachy TV shows and movies that extol the virtues of anti-racism), you will see affirmative action (black people getting jobs and college spots over white people because of their color), and you will see black people openly ridiculing white people.
Yes, racism does exist in America. It is more prevalent in some areas than others. But, it isn't just some white people hating "minorities". I have seen ample instances of black people expressing disdain for white people. I have seen ample instances of oriental people expressing disdain for black people. If all of the various groups in your country get along like some harmonious utopia, then I applaud your country. But, there can be natural suspicions and distrusts between different ethnic groups in America. Mild prejudice is rampant in America in my opinion. Racism is not.
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Show me where I exhibited racist tendancies.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4049733 - 04/13/05 10:06 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Niteowl said: Until your have spent more than a few weeks here.....you have NO IDEA what drives "American racism".
In order to truly understand racism here you will have to live here for a few years. Then you will get a feel for "how/why" their are still racist people in America.
Wiccan_Seeker said: You can live your whole life in America and have not a fleeting clue about what causes or drives it
I am absolutely floored that people who do not live in this country dare to pontificate on the exact nature of our daily behavior and problems. How fucking arrogant can you get? You've been spoonfed distorted lies about America and its culture.
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Wiccan_Seeker said: Racism in the US is often very *blatant* and that goes against the grain of many Europeans, where racism is usually more subtle, but present nontheless.
racism is a worldwide phenomenon.
Thank God you recognize that. Oh that's right....you secular Europeans don't believe in God....I hope I didn't offend you. See....it is annoying when people making assumptions about you without any true knowledge.
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Wiccan Seeker In any western culture you are bred to be a racist
That is a very bold and unsubstantiated statement.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: looner2]
#4049739 - 04/13/05 10:08 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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looner2 said: Show me where I exhibited racist tendancies.
Well, maybe it was when you did a little praising of Hitler. Some people (especially our enlightened European posters) might have been offended by that.
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Silversoul]
#4049759 - 04/13/05 10:17 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Who the fuck is saying minorities are genetically inferior?
People who say that the cause of these percieved flaws are because of their race. And some people here are saying that.
But if you would say "genetically inferior" it would be racist and that is taboo, isn't it?
Well, let's look up the definition of racism, shall we?
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rac?ism n.
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. 2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
So if you say that people are more likely to kill BECAUSE of their race, or whatever inequaltity you want to bestow, laying emphasis on things that discriminate between races and all that happens to coincide with excisting racial prejudice, then you are spewing racism.
This thread is about racism. And there is much racism in this thread.
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Sure, some may point out the fact that certain minorities don't perform as well in school, or are statistically more likely to commit crimes, but this is not racism.
It *IS* racism if you attribute that to their race. RACE-ism. And if you consistently state that other races perform less well than whites than you are making racial comparisons pointing towards white *supremacy*
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supreme adj 1: final or last in your life or progress; "the supreme sacrifice"; "the supreme judgment" 2: greatest in status or authority or power; "a supreme tribunal" [syn: sovereign] 3: highest in excellence or achievement; "supreme among musicians"; "a supreme endeavor"; "supreme courage" 4: greatest or maximal in degree; extreme; "supreme folly"
Play your word games until you are blue in the face for all I care, Paradigm. You act as if things cannot be implied, yet you see things in my posts that aren't even there.
>>If somebody fails/performs less well then that would be inferior to the person that succeeds or performs better.
>>Race is a genetic trait.
>>Attributing comparatively better or worse behavior or character to race is called racism and racism implies genetic inferiority.
It itches if I call it racism, doesn't it? You don't like me to use that word like that. But it IS racism, you can't bend that out of proportion but I'm sure you will try.
Yes. There is blatant racism in this thread.
Good day to you, Paradigm.
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Quote:
Randalflagg said: . Mild prejudice is rampant in America in my opinion. Racism is not.
You can hide behind a play of words to not say racism but:
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rac?ism n.
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. 2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
Prejudice baced on race is racism by definition So what you are saying, Randalflagg, is that mild racism is rampant in America. Thank you for agreeing with me, even though our words differ we are saying the exact same thing.
Prejudice baced on race = a way to avoid the word RACISM.
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Why are you singling out America? Racism, prejudice, and xenophobia exist everywhere.
I said that if you read my posts, but this thread is about racism in America and I am debating in this thread. But as you yourself even quoted I did say that its a worldwide problem. I even mentioned native Chinese.
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You seem to think that every white person is racist and organizing a lynch mob.
Nope then you get me wrong. I just use the hard words. I don't use the sugarcoating Prejudice when it comes to race, but I say RACISM, cause that's what it IS no matter how you sugarcoat or glaze it.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
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Posts: 15,608
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4049804 - 04/13/05 10:33 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Wiccan_Seeker said: People who say that the cause of these percieved flaws are because of their race. And some people here are saying that.
Nobody said that. I don't know why American black people seem to statistically have more social problems than white people. It could be poverty (black people have less wealth than white people). It could be a lot of stuff. Sociologists have been trying to answer some of these questions for years.
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Wiccan Seeker said: So if you say that people are more likely to kill BECAUSE of their race, or whatever inequaltity you want to bestow, laying emphasis on things that discriminate between races
This thread is about racism. And there is much racism in this thread.
Oh please. There is nothing wrong with examining fact and bringing it to a person's attention. It is fact that American black people are more likely to commit homicide than American white people. I don't even know how that little fact got brought up in the first place, but it is true nonetheless.
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Wiccan Seeker said: It *IS* racism if you attribute that to their race. RACE-ism. And if you consistently state that other races perform less well than whites than you are making racial comparisons pointing towards white *supremacy*
I disagree. I am using those statistics not as a tool of racism, but to show that there are a lot of problems in the black community. You make it seem like blacks experience rampant racism and they are downtrodden because of this. In my opinion, a lot of their problems are self-inflicted.
Edited by RandalFlagg (04/13/05 10:36 AM)
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Quote:
Thank God you recognize that. Oh that's right....you secular Europeans don't believe in God...
We invented God and you guys took him to America with you
Geez man you're playing a game of debating! But I'll try to distance myself from the topic too.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4049841 - 04/13/05 10:40 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said: Prejudice baced on race is racism by definition
So what you are saying, Randalflagg, is that mild racism is rampant in America. Thank you for agreeing with me, even though our words differ we are saying the exact same thing.
Prejudice baced on race = a way to avoid the word RACISM.
I view racism as a deep hatred, revulsion, or steretyping of a certain race.
I view prejudice as a natural wariness that anybody gets when interacting with people that are unlike themselves. My definition might not match the dictionary's definition, but it is how I view things.
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exclusive58
illegal alien
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Last seen: 6 years, 11 days
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: niteowl]
#4049850 - 04/13/05 10:42 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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niteowl said: In America their really is not that many racists. They do exist but they are few and far between.
In America you have rampant prejudice which is different than racism
Many people get these two terms confused.
Being a racist means that you believe your race is better than all the other races. Their are not very many people (that I have met) that fall into this category, and I live in southern USA where the KKK thrives.
Being prejudice means that you make a instant judgment about a person. This is rampant not only in America but all over the planet. (E.U. included)
I admit i might have been confusing the two terms, and you're right about pointing out the difference between them. thanx
It goes along with what i said earlier, that most people really don't want to be racist, also because it isn't something that is socially acceptable to be racist like back in the time, when all the "cool" kids were convinced that black people were inferior to them and such.
And it also goes along with how i said racism has become more of a psychological problem. Racial Prejudices are something like mental reflexes, like words or feeling that arise when one sees a black person. And sometimes that person could be ashamed to think what he's thinking. I wonder how shrinks deal with this kind of stuff?
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Quote:
I am using those statistics not as a tool of racism, but to show that there are a lot of problems in the black community.
Those statistics are racial. But if you consider RACE to be the CAUSE of the racial difference then that is racist.
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You make it seem like blacks experience rampant racism
Let me put it this way: the black people experience many problems because the people who hold most of the wealth and power treat them with the same "racial prejudice" you say is rampant in the united states. And since the official definition of Racism is "race-based prejudice" it means that we both agree on the same thing, only I say racism and you say "rampant prejudice towards their race".
Prejudice regarding hamsters is hamsterism Prejudice regarding race is racism
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In my opinion, a lot of their problems are self-inflicted.
Now we are getting somewhere, I hope. Yes. A lot of these problems are brought about by their own community but the cause of this lies not in their RACE but in external factors, being enviroment, culture etc. What I'm saying is that if you give 1000 blacks and 1000 whites a fair shake that they will do to full extent of significance perform equally. Others say that can not happen because of racial differences. And -THAT- is racism. And because Freedom of Speech includes the word Racism I ought to be able to call something racist when, according to its textbook definition, it IS.
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exclusive58
illegal alien
Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 6 years, 11 days
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Quote:
RandalFlagg said:
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exclusive58 said: All the blacks get together and live in the same neighborhood, all the whites move to the suburbs, etc... I don't think this shows that these different "races" are comfortable with each other! They're actually avoiding each other it seems.
Doesn't this point towards the fact that racism is still alive and kicking in the US?
There is uneasiness in being around people who are "not your kind". When I say "not your kind", I don't mean just race, I also mean people who live different lifestyles than you (different beliefs or cultural backgrounds for example).
The main reason that white people move to the suburbs and away from black people is because in America, black people are much more likely to commit crimes than white people. This means that black neighborhoods are much more likely to have high crime rates. A lot of white people don't want to live in an environment like that, so they move.
Let me get back to this: You know how, in general, crime rates have decreased by something like 2% over the last ten years (in the US), yet media coverage of crimes has increased of something like 200%?
So wouldn't you agree that the media plays a big role in the feeling of "uneasiness" that white people feel towards black people?
And shouldn't everyone have aproximately the same cultural backround, since everyone lives in the same country? I mean were talking about the american culture right? There does exist such a thing, since foreigners are so scared of it because its invading all the other cultures and replacing them. Shouldn't this be a unification factor? But from what i can tell there are many more factors of differenciation than of unification.
See, i used to live in an all-white neighborhood in the US, except this one house where there was a black family. One night, when i was driving back home with another friend, i ended driving behind the black guy's car, and i assume he got scared of seeing two cars behind him at night since he pulled over and waited for us to pass. A few weeks later the family moved away.
So it seems that even black people are scared of white people. I think this guy felt that he wasn't welcome and that's what made him leave.
So you're right, what we're really talking about is some kind of general "uneasiness". Sometimes this feeling can get perverted and turn into obvious racism though. And sometimes its a feeling that one tries not to show.
I think these are the leftovers you get from having such a history of racism.
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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I specifically highlighted one aspect of Hitler to be praised, and it didn't have anything to do with race.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4049947 - 04/13/05 11:13 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan Seeker said: And since the official definition of Racism is "race-based prejudice" it means that we both agree on the same thing, only I say racism and you say "rampant prejudice towards their race".
Look at my definitions of "racism" and "prejudice".
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RandalFlagg said: In my opinion, a lot of their problems are self-inflicted.
Wiccan Seeker said: Now we are getting somewhere, I hope. Yes. A lot of these problems are brought about by their own community but the cause of this lies not in their RACE but in external factors, being enviroment, culture etc.
To be honest, I don't know why these problems and disparities exist. Nobody does. Sociologists make studies on such things and it is such a vast and complicated problem that an answer might never be found.
I guess you and I have a different viewpoint when it comes to a very basic premise:
I think it is acceptable and natural for people to gather together in groups (whether they be religious, racial, cultural, ideological, etc..). I think it is natural for groups to be somewhat wary and distrustful of other groups. I view this whole process as natural and inevitable, while people of your mindset seem to attempt to stifle any differences or thoughts of differences.
Edited by RandalFlagg (04/13/05 11:14 AM)
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4049963 - 04/13/05 11:17 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Your bullshit never ceases to amaze me. I have not seen anyone here attribute differences among racial groups to race itself. Rather, they have merely pointed out that these differences exist. Being a sociology major, I have done extensive reading into theories as to why they exist, yet no one has called any of these texts racist. It is YOU who have shown consistent bigotry towards Americans, and display a seemingly deliberate ignorance of the facts.
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But it IS racism, you can't bend that out of proportion but I'm sure you will try.
You're the last person that should be talking about others "bending things out of proportion."
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Quote:
Randalflagg said: . I view racism as a deep hatred, revulsion, or steretyping of a certain race.
I view prejudice as a natural wariness that anybody gets when interacting with people that are unlike themselves. My definition might not match the dictionary's definition, but it is how I view things.
Look, then we're having a battle of definitions, where I adhere to the textbook definition and you stray from that.
Still, we can debate before we get to the kissing & cuddling part
I believe, and much that I have read reflects that, that most of that wariness is brought about by CULTURE, not NATURE.
If you stumble upon a native tribesman who never saw a white man before he will approach you to investigate if you in fact are human. Once he decides you are not some monkey from a tree he will do a risk assessment. If you appear friendly enough to give him a sense of security the wariness is over.
Now we in the 21th century know that people of another race are humans just like us. So if you are not a racist, "species" is "same". Then there is the matter of risk assessment.
Risk asessment is an individual matter. But western culture subconsciously teaches that race is a risk factor. If you look at color you see statistics differences. If you look at degree of wealth you see a difference of risk too. The poor man gets into your wallet with a crowbar and the rich man with a tax law
Once you start avoiding/shunning/blaming/fearing/hating a RACE of people, meaning that anyone of that color you meet is at a disadvantage compared to people you meet of another color then that is a RACIST thing. It doesnt mean that you are a deliberate racist however. And my stance is that our western culture instils a state of unconscious racism (which you might call prejudice) in everyone living there by default.
A racist can be some idiot running around with a rope but it can also be somebody who gets a slight cringe of fear whenever he sees a black man. (or Arab, or whoever) Racism isn't a matter of GUILT, it is a matter of BEHAVIOR and THOUGHT.
If you are a bit more wary of Arabs than of white man if you are flying on an airplane then that is a RACIST FEAR. You in fact are the victim of the RACISM the media put into you, and the Arab is uncomfortable with your visible unrest too.
It does not matter one bit whether Osama or George orchestrated 9/11, but your exposure to american society has caused you to experience racist fear when you are on a plane and three Arabs with beards are talking a bit in Arabic.
Racial prejudice is racism. The word racism shouldn't be such a taboo that it is avoided even if it applies.
If you are mortally afraid when you're in an elevator and three young black men walk in, more so than with three white young men, then you are the victim of your own RACIST fear. You are the racist, but you are the victim of it. If you take racist ACTION you are a racist too, but then you victimize others by racist action. In both cases the racism/racial prejudice makes people feel bad.
Definitions, Randalflagg.
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: looner2]
#4049984 - 04/13/05 11:24 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
I specifically highlighted one aspect of Hitler to be praised, and it didn't have anything to do with race.
Now that is true and it was immediately appearant it was not the racism looner2 praised. Respect for somebody's well-trimmed moustache does not make you ar racist, even though it feels a bit awkward to many to praise Hitler on anything.
Let's not get overly sensitive
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4049994 - 04/13/05 11:26 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Wiccan_Seeker writes:
Quote:
If you are mortally afraid when you're in an elevator and three young black men walk in, more so than with three white young men, then you are the victim of your own RACIST fear.
That doesn't make you a racist in many parts of the US, that makes you a realist. Anyone who doesn't put their guard up when a trio of black youths dressed like gangbangers come pimp-strutting into a closed space with them is a fool.
And before you get on my case about this, let me assure you that I have had this exact same sentiment expressed to me in even more harsh terms by just about every black person I know who lives in urban America.
Phred
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Quote:
exclusive58 said: You know how, in general, crime rates have decreased by something like 2% over the last ten years (in the US), yet media coverage of crimes has increased of something like 200%?
So wouldn't you agree that the media plays a big role in the feeling of "uneasiness" that white people feel towards black people?
It is possible. However, my firsthand experiences of how things are in a lot of black communities was not shaped by the media. It was shaped by my viewing of factual statistics, talking to black people, and driving through black neighborhoods where bars were all over the windows and somebody got shot there the night before.
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exclusive58 said: And shouldn't everyone have aproximately the same cultural backround, since everyone lives in the same country?
Shouldn't this be a unification factor?
Not all American culture is the same. There are many branches of it. Differences do seperate people and cause wariness and distrust. There are differences in how certain people live, think, and exist in America.
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exclusive58 said: So you're right, what we're really talking about is some kind of general "uneasiness". Sometimes this feeling can get perverted and turn into obvious racism though. And sometimes its a feeling that one tries not to show.
I see where you are coming from and I agree. However, I view differences and prejudices as natural and inevitable. Have you ever watched or read "A Clockwork Orange"? The message that Anthony Burgess was trying to get across was as follows:
There are certain inherent impulses in Man. Some of them are destructive. We can attempt to control or punish these impulses with force and coercion. But, is the force and coercion worse than the bad impulses? If you impose that kind of control upon a person, does it stifle their humanity? Do they become a "Clockwork Orange" (a mechanical and controlled living thing)?
These are interesting questions that are very profound.
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exclusive58
illegal alien
Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 6 years, 11 days
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4050001 - 04/13/05 11:28 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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well said
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4050008 - 04/13/05 11:29 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Now that is true and it was immediately appearant it was not the racism looner2 praised. Respect for somebody's well-trimmed moustache does not make you ar racist, even though it feels a bit awkward to many to praise Hitler on anything.
Let's not get overly sensitive
Although its in very poor english and hard to read, I think you are trying to say something without even knowing the context in which it was said. Dig up my quote and then make a comment, otherwise, just stick to making nonsensical points so the rest of the board can continue to laugh at you.
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Quote:
people of your mindset seem to attempt to stifle any differences or thoughts of differences.
"seem to" = key. You've got me confused with somebody else. I am not denying that statistic or any other difference. But if race is assumed to be the reason for the difference then that is RACISM.
Racism is a WORD, people. We are talking about racism in America.
I am saying that in America there is much prejudice regarding race and that this causes many problems. Does anyone disagree with that?
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Quote:
exclusive58 said: And shouldn't everyone have aproximately the same cultural backround, since everyone lives in the same country? I mean were talking about the american culture right?
The funny thing about "American culture" is that their are many different cultures living in America.
As stated before each "race" tends to live in their own "neighborhood" so there is not much mixing of cultures in America. Their is more of a "live and let live" attitude in America that isnt found in most other countries. We dont have "race wars" or "genocide killings" here in America that is seen in many European and African countries.
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There does exist such a thing, since foreigners are so scared of it because its invading all the other cultures and replacing them.
I think what your referring to is "Americanism". Which is mainly our movies and capitalistic attitudes that are being seen in many European countries. Is that a "culture" ??? I dont know.
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,228
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: looner2]
#4050036 - 04/13/05 11:36 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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The context was your remark in the thread "am I a fascist?" by Randalflagg. I know you were not talking about what's under hitler's nose, but i guess that anything beyond a literal description is beyond you, since you despite being a native english speaker have trouble understanding me.
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just stick to making nonsensical points so the rest of the board can continue to laugh at you.
It is nonsensical only because you can't make sense of it. Luckily the world does not revolve around your ability to make sense of things.
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4050211 - 04/13/05 12:18 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said: rac?ism n.
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. 2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
The main definition of racism is that a particular race is superior to others.
Most Americans believe in this definition of "racism". That is if you believe that "your race" is better than all other races.....your a "racist". The KKK falls into this category of "racist"
Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said: If you are mortally afraid when you're in an elevator and three young black men walk in, more so than with three white young men, then you are the victim of your own RACIST fear. You are the racist, but you are the victim of it. If you take racist ACTION you are a racist too, but then you victimize others by racist action.
That statement is only partially true.
If the 3 black men were dressed in business suits, most people would not be afraid.
If the 3 black men were dressed in gangster clothing, most people (including blacks) will be afraid.
How can a black person be racist against his own race?
Their fear came not from the fact that they are black....but in how they were dressed. The same fear would come if it were ANY race (mexican, asian, black or white) dressed in gangster clothing.
Being afraid of the 3 black gangsters is NOT racist.
It is prejudice. _
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Gijith
Daisy Chain Eater
Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4050279 - 04/13/05 12:35 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said: If you are mortally afraid when you're in an elevator and three young black men walk in, more so than with three white young men, then you are the victim of your own RACIST fear. You are the racist, but you are the victim of it. If you take racist ACTION you are a racist too, but then you victimize others by racist action. In both cases the racism/racial prejudice makes people feel bad.
This caught my eye, because I remember discussing this exact scenario with a black roommate I had my sophomore year. I remember him saying that he can smell the fear off the white people when he walks into an elevator with them. But later on, he also said that he feels uncomfortable when he's in an elevator with a group of very straight looking white people. I don't really remember what else was said, so I'll leave it like that.
I know I've lived through this elevator example hundreds of times. I'm not the kind of person who goes stiff, because it just doesn't make much sense to me, regardless of race. If I'm gonna get mugged in that elevator, I'm gonna get mugged. Getting scared just makes the situation even more risky. I'll be pissed, but I won't be scared because some asshole wants the $20 in my pocket. I've never met a black person in my life who would kill someone during a mugging. And I've known fucked up black people.
I've had the misfortune of being mugged 3 times - once in the Queens, once in Philly, and one really weird incident in Buffalo. Yes, all three times by black guys. All three times on the street (er, the Buffalo one started on the street). All three times, just out of bad luck and not knowing my surroundings. One of my friends, who I'd classify as a borderline racist, let the Buffalo thing take his prejudice to new heights (he now no longer goes to McDonalds because he feels, based on their ad campaigns, that they don't want his white patronage). I don't blame him for feeling the way he does. But I can't bring myself to go down the same road. I've probably had tens of thousands of encounters with black people. I'm not gonna let three incidents radically change how I feel about the race. It would be a pain in my ass and it would also be a disservice to a black person who happens to be in the same elevator as me. Groups of people aren't gonna have room to improve themselves if I'm gonna lay down judgment within 3 seconds.
Now, Wiccan, I'm not saying I agree with you on this. In fact, I disagree with the vast majority of what you've said in this thread... I don't think having a knee-jerk fear reaction to black youth qualifies someone as a flat out racist. It probably makes them a little jumpy and prejudiced (or just a geezer who's never lived in America). I think it's what someone does with that fear and prejudice that makes them a racist.
-------------------- what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?
Edited by Gijith (04/13/05 03:35 PM)
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Gijith]
#4050364 - 04/13/05 12:53 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gijith said: Now, Wiccan, I'm not saying I agree with you on this. In fact, I disagree with the vast majority of what you've said in this thread... I don't think having a knee-jerk fear reaction to black youth qualifies someone as a flat out racist. It probably makes them a a little jumpy and prejudiced (or just a geezer who's never lived in America). I think it's what someone does with that fear and prejudice that makes them a racist.
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exclusive58
illegal alien
Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 6 years, 11 days
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Gijith]
#4053463 - 04/14/05 04:16 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gijith said:
I've had the misfortune of being mugged 3 times - once in the Queens, once in Philly, and one really weird incident in Buffalo. Yes, all three times by black guys. All three times on the street (er, the Buffalo one started on the street). All three times, just out of bad luck and not knowing my surroundings. One of my friends, who I'd classify as a borderline racist, let the Buffalo thing take his prejudice to new heights (he now no longer goes to McDonalds because he feels, based on their ad campaigns, that they don't want his white patronage). I don't blame him for feeling the way he does. But I can't bring myself to go down the same road. I've probably had tens of thousands of encounters with black people. I'm not gonna let three incidents radically change how I feel about the race. It would be a pain in my ass and it would also be a disservice to a black person who happens to be in the same elevator as me. Groups of people aren't gonna have room to improve themselves if I'm gonna lay down judgment within 3 seconds.
Now, Wiccan, I'm not saying I agree with you on this. In fact, I disagree with the vast majority of what you've said in this thread... I don't think having a knee-jerk fear reaction to black youth qualifies someone as a flat out racist. It probably makes them a little jumpy and prejudiced (or just a geezer who's never lived in America). I think it's what someone does with that fear and prejudice that makes them a racist.
I think that's a nice summary of what the real problem today is: how do people psychologically deal with the feeling of fear they may have towards a person that is potentially dangerous?
Well, you can either deal with fear, and realize that its a useless emotion that can only make things worse for you (like Gijith said he did), or you can let yourself be driven by your emotions, and in the name of safety, try to prevent any future muggling by mentally pre-tagging the potential criminals that may be out to "get you" with the sticker "danger, avoid avoid, that way you know when to get on the other sidewalk so you can avoid the danger. I guess that's a natural way for the ego to preserve itself or something.
In that last outcome, classifying the dangerosity of someone by skin color is where the prejudice comes from, and it can sometimes turn into blatant racism.
I've been muggled three times as well. All three times by black people, except one when there were also whites and arabs. I've been aggressed and punched three time face in the metro by three big black guys and stolen 80euros and my cellphone. From this experience, i don't hate the black guys for what they did, but most of all i have a disgust for masses, because there were plenty of people in the metro wagon, but no one said a thing as i got beaten up. No one even looked.
damn, i don't know what i'm trying to say ( ) but i think that now the problem could better be discussed in the S&P forum, because its not a problem that politics can do much about, they can easily aggravate it by telling you how to think, but they can't fix it. That's something each of us has to do on our own.
We've all got psychological problems to deal with anyway. Its sad that so many people give up so early though.
Quote:
I remember him saying that he can smell the fear off the white people when he walks into an elevator with them.
ya fearful people are pretty obvious. And i think that when one sees that another person is getting scared just because of one's skin color, then one is more inclined to beat the hell out of that person just becuase it can piss one off to see such foolness.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Quote:
exclusive58 said: Well, you can either deal with fear, and realize that its a useless emotion that can only make things worse for you (like Gijith said he did), or you can let yourself be driven by your emotions, and in the name of safety, try to prevent any future muggling by mentally pre-tagging the potential criminals that may be out to "get you" with the sticker "danger, avoid avoid, that way you know when to get on the other sidewalk so you can avoid the danger. I guess that's a natural way for the ego to preserve itself or something.
More like a natural way for the body to preserve itself. I was once out riding my bike when a bunch of young Mexican hoodlums started riding up near me. Being the naive young liberal that I was at the time, I didn't want to be "racist" in assuming that they meant to harm me, so I kept on riding. They then surrounded me and jumped me for my bike. Sometimes you get that gut feeling for a reason, ya know.
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exclusive58
illegal alien
Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 6 years, 11 days
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Silversoul]
#4054283 - 04/14/05 10:54 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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>Being the naive young liberal that I was at the time..
haha, that seemed kinda funny for a sec. At what age did you officially declare yourself a liberal?
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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I grew up liberal, raised by liberal parents. It wasn't until the past year or so that I got a woke up to libertarianism.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4054512 - 04/14/05 11:45 AM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Randalflagg said: I view racism as a deep hatred, revulsion, or stereotyping of a certain race.
I view prejudice as a natural wariness that anybody gets when interacting with people that are unlike themselves. My definition might not match the dictionary's definition, but it is how I view things.
Wiccan Seeker said: Look, then we're having a battle of definitions, where I adhere to the textbook definition and you stray from that.
Maybe I do stray from the definition. But, it is how I define things.
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Wiccan Seeker said: I believe, and much that I have read reflects that, that most of that wariness is brought about by CULTURE, not NATURE.
If it is not natural, why does it exist in every society on earth? Why has it always existed? Culture does definitely influence opinions and attitudes, but I think it is natural to be wary of different things and people. I think nature influences culture.
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Wiccan Seeker said: Risk asessment is an individual matter. But western culture subconsciously teaches that race is a risk factor.
There are many facets to a ?culture?. In America, there are many individual cultures that exist. There are Asian communities in New York and San Francisco. There is a large Arab community in Dearborn, Michigan. There are big city folks, small town folks, and suburban dwellers. There are multitudes of American movies and TV shows that say, ?Racism is terrible. Can?t we all just get along??. There are some parents that tell their kids that ?niggers are bad?. There are some parents (the majority) that tell their kids that racism is bad. There is no homogenous ?Western? or ?American? culture, which is what you seem to be insinuating.
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Wiccan Seeker said: And my stance is that our western culture instills a state of unconscious racism (which you might call prejudice) in everyone living there by default.
You are missing my two main points:
#1. Western culture has a lot of different ideas and opinions flying around in it. Some are racist and some are very anti-racist.
#2. Prejudice and racism exist everywhere in this world (not just in ?Western Culture?). It has existed since the beginning of time. When Hannibal was attacking the Roman empire, how do you think the Romans felt about the people of Carthage? How do you think the Middle Eastern Arabs feel about the Jews or the U.S.? Conflict is inevitable in this world. Distrust, wariness, and even outright hatred is inevitable in this world. Racism is a virulent form of despising another race. Prejudice is a wariness of another group or race. I don?t think prejudice is bad. I think it is a natural reaction among humans that cannot and should not be stifled.
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Wiccan Seeker said: Racism isn't a matter of GUILT, it is a matter of BEHAVIOR and THOUGHT.
It matters what those thoughts and behaviors are. If you react a certain way because your instincts are telling you to, I think that is OK. If you go out of your way to demonize and attack a certain race, then you are definitely a racist.
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Wiccan Seeker said: If you are a bit more wary of Arabs than of white man if you are flying on an airplane then that is a RACIST FEAR.
I consider that a reasonable prejudicial fear. I don?t consider it racism.
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Wiccan Seeker said: You in fact are the victim of the RACISM the media put into you
The Media didn?t kill 3,000 people on 9/11. The Media didn?t hack several American citizens heads off. The Media doesn?t kill innocent civilians. The media didn?t force eight times as many black males to go commit homicide when compared to white males.
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Wiccan Seeker said: but your exposure to american society has caused you to experience racist fear when you are on a plane and three Arabs with beards are talking a bit in Arabic.
You?re wrong. My exposure to American society has nothing to do with the fact that I would be wary of Arabs on a plane with me. It has to do with the fact that 19 Arabs murdered 3,000 of my fellow citizens by using several airplanes.
Quote:
Wiccan Seeker said: If you are mortally afraid when you're in an elevator and three young black men walk in, more so than with three white young men, then you are the victim of your own RACIST fear. You are the racist, but you are the victim of it. If you take racist ACTION you are a racist too, but then you victimize others by racist action.
In that situation, I would zero in more on how the three individuals were acting than the color of their skin. Were they acting all shady and eyeing me up? I trust my instincts. If my instincts tell me something then I listen. If my instincts come across as a little racist, I really don?t give a shit.
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist
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Last seen: 7 hours, 36 minutes
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
#4054583 - 04/14/05 12:03 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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1.Yes, there is racism in America.
2. No, it isn't any worse here than it is anywhere else. In fact it's better than most places.
3. Yes there is government institutionallized racism in America; overtly against whites, and covertly (mostly unconciously) against everybody else.
4. Hindu lookin motherfuckers can't make sandwiches. I don't know if it's genetic or not.
5. There is nothing preventing a Non-White person from being just as successfull as any white person in America. If you "act black" then that may or may not inhibit your ability to succede depending on (a) who you're dealing with, and (b) what your idea of "acting black" might be. If your idea of "acting white" is to dress and talk like a pirate, that could have an impact as well, yarrr. If you are black, or have long hair, or act effeminately, or are openly homosexual, or you like the Redsox and the judge knows it, and hates the Redsox for some reason, then chances are you may not recieve absolutely fair treatment in a courtroom. I'm sure that only happens in America tho.
6. Anti-American predujice is approximately as justified in European countries as anti-French sentiment is in America. Except in America it is taken lightly, like a joke, whereas anti-American sentiment seems more rabid and mouth-frothy.
7. Your words seem to indicate that you see things that happened in Europe prior to the creation of America as things that "you" (or your people) have done and that the decendents of those people who moved to another country (European-Americans) should be somehow differently credited with the accomplishments of their ancestors than those who stayed in the same geographic region. This is an obvious case of geographicism. The government of your country should not allow this behavior to continue, and you should be jailed immediately.
8. America has been genocide free longer than France.
9. The most devestating form of racism in America as far as holding back minorities is the belief that the white man is holding then down. Nobody is holding them down but themselves. Most of the poor minorities (and whites) are poor because they don't understand that they don't have to be. They either aren't willing to do the work it takes to educate themselves, or the believe themselves to be incapable of learning.
10. There is a culture of loathing of knowledge in America. Being a good student can be stigmatic here. This taboo is magnified by the perception that "the system" wants to subjugate, controll and own you. This perception is held almost entorely by poor people. In the case of poor minorities, their feelings toward "the system" are influenced by their perception of it being a white system.
11. Racism does more damage from the inside than the outside in America.
-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Silversoul]
#4055239 - 04/14/05 02:58 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Very nice job. Everybody who lives outside America should give a great deal of credence to what BH wrote. I think it's right on the mark.
I think a lot of people confusedly believe that discrimination is inherently racist. I can discriminate the difference between an apple and an orange and I like oranges better. I can discriminate that if I'm at 154th and Lex and a bunch of young black gentlemen with boom boxes and 40s come down the street I might want to consider escape routes. Just in case. I'll be in the store. Likewise, I might, if I were black, insist that the real estate agent show me everything that's come on the market in her area and do it in writing. Just in case. I'll check with some others agents too.
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Gijith
Daisy Chain Eater
Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
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-------------------- what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Silversoul]
#4055753 - 04/14/05 04:57 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said: I was once out riding my bike when a bunch of young Mexican hoodlums started riding up near me. They then surrounded me and jumped me for my bike.
"Hey Holmes, gimme yo motherfuckin' bike!"
Edited by RandalFlagg (04/14/05 04:59 PM)
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SoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst
Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 1,690
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Quote:
RandalFlagg said:
Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said: People who say that the cause of these percieved flaws are because of their race. And some people here are saying that.
Nobody said that. I don't know why American black people seem to statistically have more social problems than white people. It could be poverty (black people have less wealth than white people). It could be a lot of stuff. Sociologists have been trying to answer some of these questions for years.
Noone addresses why American Indians do so much better on standardized tests than blacks either. I'm sure it's because 50 years of slavery was oh so much harder than centuries of near-genocide.
-------------------- Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: SoopaX]
#4056484 - 04/14/05 09:05 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Be careful SoopX, truth is not sought, nor encouraged when it comes to discussing race. Everyone is equal and exactly the same to think or question otherwise is ignorant.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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Catalysis
EtherealEngineer
Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Quote:
10. There is a culture of loathing of knowledge in America. Being a good student can be stigmatic here. This taboo is magnified by the perception that "the system" wants to subjugate, controll and own you. This perception is held almost entorely by poor people. In the case of poor minorities, their feelings toward "the system" are influenced by their perception of it being a white system.
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: SoopaX]
#4056822 - 04/14/05 10:27 PM (18 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
SoopaX said: Noone addresses why American Indians do so much better on standardized tests
'cause standardized tests dont really prove anything. (IMO)
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Catalysis]
#4065377 - 04/17/05 11:37 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Mini race riot breaks out on basketball court
Brooklyn Skyline
"A gang of up to 30 black teens attacked four white girls in Marine Park in what police are saying is not a bias crime... According to witnesses and parents of the victims, four young girls from St. Edmund's had the day off from school due to Easter recess. They were playing basketball during dismissal from nearby Marine Park Junior High School, when several Marine Park students demanded to use the court. After adults intervened and asked them to wait their turn, the teens left - but returned in a pack of up to 30, both boys and girls, and stormed into the park. Witnesses say the attackers were all black and called their victims 'white crackers' during the bloody melee, which raged for almost 20 minutes."
http://www.brooklynskyline.com/news_article.asp?c=ne&na=1486
Yeah......white racism towards black people is such a big problem in America isn't it? What about black racism towards white people? If the roles were reversed in this situation(white gangs attacking a small group of black kids) the outrage would have been nationwide. Jesse Jackson would be preening in front of cameras bellowing about the "undercurrent and legacy of white racism in this country", the FBI would have opened a very public "hate crimes" investigation, and black community leaders would be "outraged".
It's political correctness run amok...
All of those rampaging kids should be prosecuted. People should start acknowledging blatant black racism towards white people. Why the double standard when dealing with racism? Why is black racism downplayed and accepted while white racism is vilified and trumpeted?
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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I wish I was one of the white people on that court. I guarantee I would have 30 black scalps hanging on my belt right now.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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pleco
Astralnaut
Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 203
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: looner2]
#4065632 - 04/17/05 01:30 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
looner2 said: I wish I was one of the white people on that court. I guarantee I would have 30 black scalps hanging on my belt right now.
Now that's just the wrong reason to become a black belt... and as much as we'd love to imagine you trying to scalp 30 boys and girls, who cares?
The questions here are more along the lines of why didn't the kids wait their turn, who were the adults who told them to do so and how did the NYPD determine that this wasn't a hate crime?
More questions than answers in that article...
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: pleco]
#4065665 - 04/17/05 01:41 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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The questions here are more along the lines of why didn't the kids wait their turn
What kind of question is that!?? I can understand if it was kindergarden class and kids were butting in line for the monkey bars.
but....
A group of black kids formed a large mob and attacked, kicked, and stomped white kids in a park like a savage war party while yelling racial obscenities!!
No one cares if it should be a HATE CRIME. Who gives a shit?
This is a prime example of black children being brainwashed by their deadbeat parents. No child understands racial issues at a young age, and to intiate violence on top of it tells me society or parents are teaching these kids some pretty shitty values.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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SoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst
Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 1,690
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: looner2]
#4065817 - 04/17/05 03:25 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
looner2 said: Be careful SoopX, truth is not sought, nor encouraged when it comes to discussing race. Everyone is equal and exactly the same to think or question otherwise is ignorant.
Forgive me! I hope that the thought police don't kick my door in. "everyone is biophysically the same" Ten thousand times a day on MTV for 14 years, then it's a truth, right?
-------------------- Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man
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SoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst
Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 1,690
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I've said it before and Ill say it again. Whites and blacks don't live together well. I think that n*gger males that attack/rape white women should be tortured to death. Maybe just toss them out in Alabama in the middle of a KKK rally. Those guys knew how to keep some knee-grows under control.
-------------------- Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: SoopaX]
#4066087 - 04/17/05 05:28 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
SoopaX said: Maybe just toss them out in Alabama in the middle of a KKK rally. Those guys knew how to keep some knee-grows under control.
Just because some darkies get a little out of control is no reason to advocate KKK solutions. Just kidding.
But seriously, I suggest that you calm down your more racist tendencies. It detracts from your posts (which are sometimes pretty good).
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pleco
Astralnaut
Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 203
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: looner2]
#4066153 - 04/17/05 05:54 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
looner2 said: No one cares if it should be a HATE CRIME. Who gives a shit?
Isn't that what RandalFlagg was getting at? I'm sure a lot of people care... the kids are lucky it's not or they'd be in deep shit. They care. The white kids probably care, because those kids who got arrested aren't going to jail. They're going back to school on Monday.
But anyway, I don't really understand what you're rambling about... are you just trying to make it clear that you don't like blacks and would like to scalp their kids? If so there are a bunch of people out there who would love to have you in their company... check out www.nazi.org. if that's not your type of crowd, www.stormfront.org has about 50,000 citizens who'd love share all of their problems with minorities in America, with you. Then you can have even more... issues... to deal with.
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,625
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 7 hours, 36 minutes
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Any chronically violent child should be put to death regardles of race. This includes anyone in a gang.
The end.
-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: pleco]
#4066469 - 04/17/05 07:58 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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But anyway, I don't really understand what you're rambling about... are you just trying to make it clear that you don't like blacks and would like to scalp their kids? If so there are a bunch of people out there who would love to have you in their company... check out www.nazi.org. if that's not your type of crowd, www.stormfront.org has about 50,000 citizens who'd love share all of their problems with minorities in America, with you. Then you can have even more... issues... to deal with.
*yawn*
What part of discussing race relations, in a thread, aptly titled "Racism in the U.S", is called "rambling"?
Very predictable with the nazi and stomfront crap... don't say anything negative about the blacks and support them when they go on war parties through our parks, and your a good, kind-hearted liberal.
You remind me of an hermaphrodite friend of mine who lived in this giant tree out in california. He loved that tree dearly and wouldn't come down when the loggers needed to gather wood. His name was "whisper".
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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SoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst
Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 1,690
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Quote:
Baby_Hitler said: Any chronically violent child should be put to death regardles of race. This includes anyone in a gang.
The end.
Touche
-------------------- Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man
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Rose
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: zappaisgod]
#4066678 - 04/17/05 09:06 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Wiccan Seeker has gone so far beyond reason and has produced zero backup for its nonsense that I nominate it for trollhood. Do I hear a second?
Actually Zap, your post qualifies as trolling.
If I hear a second, you will hear your ban.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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pleco
Astralnaut
Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 203
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Rose]
#4067012 - 04/17/05 11:06 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Looking back at your last three posts, Looner, I am convinced that you were raised by parents with a combined IQ of 90. Still, it's your own fault that you can't have an intelligent conversation. I suggest you find a library, or a book... something. Until you're suited with the basic skills to discuss something with someone who may disagree with you, I'm going to leave you, along with the loons who raised you, on my list of idiots.
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DonnaDoo87
Stranger
Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 1
Last seen: 18 years, 10 months
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: mps]
#4067134 - 04/17/05 11:41 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
mps said: Then it was against the Mexicans. That one has always been around, but it's getting more prevalent now, and it's completely irrational.
When you look at history and what's happened throughout it here, you'll see that Mexicans were never accepted, yes. I believe someone mentioned that it's because they didn't adopt our ways. It's not theirs to adopt, because the majority of Mexicans are of a Native American decent, so it's just that they paid more attention to their own ways, and didn't assimilate as much as the Native Americans who lived in the areas that the British and French landed in.
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Rose
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: pleco]
#4067157 - 04/17/05 11:52 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
pleco said: Looking back at your last three posts, Looner, I am convinced that you were raised by parents with a combined IQ of 90. Still, it's your own fault that you can't have an intelligent conversation. I suggest you find a library, or a book... something. Until you're suited with the basic skills to discuss something with someone who may disagree with you, I'm going to leave you, along with the loons who raised you, on my list of idiots.
You get a warning for flaming, pleco. Flame any more, and you will be banned.
Don't worry, it isn't the end of the world.
People have the right to their opinions in this forum.
We argue with our opinions about THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD, not about our opinions of particular posters. There are other Forums better equipt to handle flaming.
In here, flaming kills the discussion.
This is a thread about RACISM, without a coulple racists, how could we have this discussion?
If you wish to share your opinion of other Shroomery mambers, please keep it in PM or rating form. You can also try your hand in OTD or the supporter Forums.
I hope you see why this Forum has to work by these rules.
Oh yeah... and racism sucks!
I'm an equal oppertunity racist. I hate everyone equally.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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