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InvisibleDirtMcgirt
in a pinch
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Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
Re: Racism in the US [Re: DieCommie]
    #4042546 - 04/11/05 09:07 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Most racism in the US is against whites.
There is also state approved racism in the form of quotas for universities and government jobs.




This is coming from a white man's perspective and is exactly what I'm talking about. This shit annoys me too but it doesn't amount to more racism against whites than other race. You experience racism against whites but you don't experience racism against Blacks or Latinos or whatever. If you asked a Latino or a Black or Native who has the worst of it your going to get a different answer every time I suspect. In the the end it all amounts to self-victimization.


There is an equal amount or government sponsered racism against other races as well not only racial quotas at schools.


--------------------
"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Racism in the US [Re: exclusive58]
    #4042560 - 04/11/05 09:11 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
IMO, the french bashing is a result of the anti-french propaganda (because of the Iraq war)




That definately contributed to it. However, in my opinion there has always been a slight anti-French sentiment amongst a lot of Americans. I think it is mainly because of the "French people are snobs" stereotype.

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
i was more wondering about the actual state of racism of blacks in the US.




It is definately present in America. But in my opinion, black racism towards white people is just as prevalent and much more socially acceptable than white racism towards black people.

Let's just be honest....every group seems to have a gripe about every other group.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Racism in the US [Re: DirtMcgirt]
    #4042567 - 04/11/05 09:13 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DirtMcgirt said:
There is an equal amount or government sponsered racism against other races as well not only racial quotas at schools.


Example?


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InvisibleShroomOmatic
Ethno Apprentice
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Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 2,373
Loc: Sailing the Seas of Chees...
Re: Racism in the US [Re: exclusive58]
    #4042579 - 04/11/05 09:17 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

There is alwase gonna be racist no matter where you go as far as government goes there might be some racism but not as bad as it was in the 60's and 70's.


--------------------


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
    #4042602 - 04/11/05 09:28 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
If you observe Americans :evil: you notice a strong tendency to categorize and condemn.




Everybody categorizes and condemns.  I have heard Europeans bash Americans.  I have heard Muslims bash Americans.  Recently, I have even heard of anti-Muslim sentiment amongst Europeans.

Ever hear of how African tribes go nuts and start hacking each other with machetes?  Racism, xenophobia, categorization, ethnic tension, and distrust are not things that Americans have a monopoly on.  It is a human trait, not an American trait.

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Americans are race-nuts.




That is an unsubstantiated stereotype.

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
the average "outspoken" white American will basically fight any advance of his non-white countrymen

And after over 100 years the Ku Klux Klan is still legal and even has a TV station.




Of course the KKK is legal.  They are a group of individuals who hold certain beliefs.  Organizing and holding outspoken beliefs is allowed in the U.S.

However, the actual power of the KKK is pathetic.  What does the KKK or any white racist group do nowadays?  Once a year or so, they manage to get 15 or 20 people to stand on courthouse steps in robes and yell "nigger".  And they have a TV station that is probably watched by 30 or 40 people.  They DON'T have any respectability, authority, or power.  These people are universally ridiculed and condemned.  They are not to be taken seriously.

Yet, when a black radical comes to speak at a college, hundreds can show up and angrily shake their heads in agreement when he engages in obviously anti-white statements and victimization pandering.  Officials will kiss his ass.  The press will kiss his ass.  He has legitimacy and power.

Black racism towards whites is acceptable.  White racism towards blacks is not acceptable.  It is political correctness run amok.

Quote:

Wiccan Seeker said:
the Government, who made fear politics and "divide and conquer" into standard domestic and international politics.




These weird Left-Wing conspiracy theories baffle me.  What exactly are you trying to say here?  That the U.S. government causes racism?  No, it doesn't.  People do that on their own.


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InvisibleDirtMcgirt
in a pinch
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Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
Re: Racism in the US [Re: DieCommie]
    #4042619 - 04/11/05 09:34 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Well there is that whole Indian reservation thing (we gave you casinos, what more do you want!) Just as males are prejudiced against in child custody battles the whole judicial system is prejudiced against blacks and latinos in criminal cases and there are stats to prove it(please don't make me dig up a source for that, it should be common knowledge by now)--I'd say that trumps any university quota system.


--------------------
"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Racism in the US [Re: exclusive58]
    #4042623 - 04/11/05 09:35 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
All the blacks get together and live in the same neighborhood, all the whites move to the suburbs, etc... I don't think this shows that these different "races" are comfortable with each other! They're actually avoiding each other it seems.

Doesn't this point towards the fact that racism is still alive and kicking in the US?




There is uneasiness in being around people who are "not your kind". When I say "not your kind", I don't mean just race, I also mean people who live different lifestyles than you (different beliefs or cultural backgrounds for example).

The main reason that white people move to the suburbs and away from black people is because in America, black people are much more likely to commit crimes than white people. This means that black neighborhoods are much more likely to have high crime rates. A lot of white people don't want to live in an environment like that, so they move.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Racism in the US [Re: exclusive58]
    #4042639 - 04/11/05 09:40 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
americans just let themselves be lead by their government like little sheeps. you guys are so easily manipulated. us french people, when we're not happy with what's going on, we let the whole world know! we go marchin' in the streets, we go on strike, basically, we just use our power! but you guys just submit to the power.




I live in America and I don't know a single person who approves of the Iraq war and how it appears to have gone down.

We're not all sheep.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Racism in the US [Re: DirtMcgirt]
    #4042671 - 04/11/05 09:46 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DirtMcgirt said:
Well there is that whole Indian reservation thing (we gave you casinos, what more do you want!)


They are allowed to move to "US territory" if they want. There was state racism against them in the past sure, but that is simply not the case now. There are tons of Navajo here in Phoenix. Are you saying because they are allowed to have semi-sovereignty from the federal government that is somehow racist against them? Seems like racism for them.(keeping in mind they are not forced to stay there like they were a hundred years ago.)
Quote:

DirtMcgirt said: Just as males are prejudiced against in child custody battles


Males are not a race.
Quote:

DirtMcgirt said: the whole judicial system is prejudiced against blacks and latinos in criminal cases


Thats not true at all. And if it does happen it is clearly illegal according to US law.


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OfflineBanJankri
FreefallerUpwards

Registered: 07/27/04
Posts: 1,392
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Re: Racism in the US [Re: exclusive58]
    #4042737 - 04/11/05 10:02 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Read one of the recent articles by Samuel Huntington : the hispanic challange. Its simply hilarious. He's just so full of b.s. I still wonder how he gets his work published in the foreign policy journal.  :rolleyes:


--------------------
Just let everything flow, just flow right to the center of everything. You gotta turn off your mind and relax, and then just float downstream...


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
    #4042797 - 04/11/05 10:13 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Affirmative Action has the effect of simultaneously being racist towards whites, fostering racism towards minorities, and hiding the real social problems facing those minorities.


--------------------


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Racism in the US [Re: Silversoul]
    #4042824 - 04/11/05 10:18 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Affirmative Action has the effect of simultaneously being racist towards whites, fostering racism towards minorities, and hiding the real social problems facing those minorities.


Well put! I have to remeber that statement.

I think it is also worthwhile to note, the majority of those that "benefit" from affirmative action are against it. Many surveys of minorities show they are categorically against it. And when the issue hits the polls (if it hits the polls) it is almost always voted down.


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InvisibleDirtMcgirt
in a pinch
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Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
Re: Racism in the US [Re: Silversoul]
    #4042941 - 04/11/05 10:51 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Thats not true at all. And if it does happen it is clearly illegal according to US law.




Here are some statistics and articles for you:

like in NJ an black man is 10 times more likely that a white man to get the death penalty

http://www.uncp.edu/home/vanderhoof/dp-news/nj-race.html

If you want more here are other articles on criminal justice and race inequality.

http://racerelations.about.com/od/raceandcriminaljustice/


It is illegal but does and has existed and wouldn't a black man take that as racism from his judicial system---a government institution?

Or the fact that Natives, Latinos, and blacks are disproportionately represented in state and federal governments? Wouldn't you feel discriminated against? Does this amount to less or more racism in relation to whites by the government? Who are you or I to say?


Quote:

Males are not a race.




Thanks you for clearing that up. I was making an analogy. Do you believe males are discriminated against in child custody battles? If you do (you should, btw) how can you say it doesn't happen against blacks in criminal cases--there is that pesky self-victimization thing...


All I'm saying is that the government is racist against all races in all sorts of ways and to claim it is moreso against whites solely based on university quotas is weak.


--------------------
"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."


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InvisibleDirtMcgirt
in a pinch
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Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
Re: Racism in the US [Re: DirtMcgirt]
    #4042954 - 04/11/05 10:54 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)



--------------------
"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Racism in the US [Re: DirtMcgirt]
    #4042979 - 04/11/05 11:02 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

About the male discrimination... Yes i believe there is discrimination against males in that case, but im ok with it. I think females should win *most* custody battles, because i think they are better at raising the kid. There is inherent difference between the sexes, but not the races.

I understand you position on race with the death penalty issue. I used to feel that way, and still do to a point. I do however think there is more to it than racism, including but not limited to, the horrid state of the average black family (or lack there of), lack of strong positive male role models, which leads to brutal offenses. A good way to end this so called racism on the death penalty issue would be to execute all murderers and rapists.


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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: Racism in the US [Re: DirtMcgirt]
    #4042993 - 04/11/05 11:06 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DirtMcgirt said:
more death penalty stats:


http://racerelations.about.com/gi/dynami...e%2Fdeath03.htm




You have to accept the fact that blacks are proportionately commiting more crimes than other races. Try living in an urban black area and tell me that the number of black convictions is due to a racist court system. There are problems, but its not the courts.


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Invisiblenewuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Re: Racism in the US [Re: DieCommie]
    #4043044 - 04/11/05 11:20 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Thats not true at all.
http://www.ussc.gov/crack/APPNDXB.HTM

Quote:

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) urged the Sentencing Commission to request Congress to eliminate the penalty provisions that distinguish crack cocaine from powder cocaine. In its written submission, the ACLU presented many of the findings of a panel of experts that participated in its 1993 national symposium, "Racial Bias in Cocaine Laws." The ACLU stated, "the overwhelming testimony of the expert's (sic) panel was that the mandatory minimum sentences for crack cocaine are not medically, scientifically or socially supportable, are highly inequitable against African Americans, and represent a national drug policy tinged with racism."




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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Racism in the US [Re: newuser1492]
    #4043139 - 04/11/05 11:46 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

So because the sentences are more harsh for crack use, that is somehow racist?  Crack is not a race.  And even if blacks are more likely to use crack, that does not in any way mean there is state sponsored racism against them.

Did it ever occur to you that crack is a heinous drug that makes people crazy and this is why it scares those who make laws?  I smoked it for a while when i was 17 (btw im not black) and it is nothing like pot or shrooms (or even powder coke).  Crack does make people more dangerous.

Plus that statement is from the ACLU  :rolleyes:  They will perpetuate the idea of racism forever, or until there is only one race.


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Invisiblenewuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Re: Racism in the US [Re: DieCommie]
    #4043341 - 04/12/05 12:35 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Did you even read that link? There are many more groups of people than just the ACLU that consider the crack/cocaine drug laws to be racially motivated. You should know that crack is just freebase cocaine.

3. Federal Public and Community Defenders

The Federal Defenders support elimination of the distinction between powder cocaine and crack cocaine. They cite disparate treatment, stating that crack cocaine offenses are committed overwhelmingly more by Blacks and that powder cocaine offenses are committed primarily by Whites. They also note a lack of scientific data confirming that crack cocaine is more dangerous than powder cocaine.

5. U.S. District Court Judges

Two U.S. District Court judges wrote of their concern about the 100-to-1 quantity ratio. One said, "[t]he ratio is irrational and leads to unfair sentences. Quantity based sentencing involving crack cocaine produces sentences, in many cases, that are harsh, have no deterrent impact and are grossly disproportionate." The second judge urged the Commission to ask Congress to eliminate the existing quantity ratio, stating that "[t]he Draconian sentences required for crack offenders are unconscionable."

11. Comments from an Assistant U.S. Attorney

An assistant U.S. attorney generally stated that the 100-to-1 quantity ratio was excessive. The prosecutor added two observations. First, he argued that the 100-to-1 ratio did not affect those Congress intended to target. He wrote, "in very few cases have the prosecutions in this district risen above the mid-level management level." Second, he noted that he could not identify any "deterrent impact, or positive social benefit resulting from federal prosecutions under the present penalty scheme."


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Racism in the US [Re: newuser1492]
    #4043430 - 04/12/05 12:54 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

No i did not read the link.  I have heard the argument before and i simply dont buy it.  :shrug:  And yes i know crack is just freebase coke, i have done both multiple times (unfortunately).  The fact of the matter is crack is more dangerous, not to the user, but to other members of society.  I always thought the idea that black people use crack was a bit over rated anyway.  Most black drug users i know just smoke real expensive weed. :bongload:


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