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InvisibleGijith
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Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: Racism in the US [Re: exclusive58]
    #4041477 - 04/11/05 04:51 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

When I was growing up, my parents would have a foreign exchange student stay with us most summers. Usually from France or Germany. The German kids were, of course, way cooler. But some of the French kids were also very interesting. All very nice and polite. And our relationships were always mutually respectful. In fact, they could have easily passed for Americans. It was a very refreshing... Then, one spring, I flew over to Rennes for a few weeks, where I finally encountered French adults. Very different. Almost all of them treated me as 1) a poor ignorant American to be pitied, or 2) a dangerous ignorant American to be ridiculed. They wanted to know if I enjoyed being 'shocked', if I owned a gun, and why I wasn't fat. Lots of jaded views toward America (yet, if I turned on the radio, television or walked past a movie theater, I felt like I was back home).

Maybe there's some common factor that spurs racist thoughts as we get older. This has all resurfaced lately as I've started to notice some new racist tendencies in my thinking. I've lived in mixed neighborhoods before. Black, white, hispanic, whatever. I was always fiercely open minded and cool with everybody... For the last year, I've been living in a complex that's about 80% asian. Chinese and Korean mostly. And now, at the age of 23, I can't help myself from hating these asians. I think it kinda boils down to one thing: I'm very threatened by them. They're beyond me in numbers and intelligence. And I have to compete against them academically.

And I think that same fear is the usual force behind racism the world over. It just happens to be perpetual in American society, as we are such a melting pot. But I think that America, as a country, has come a very long way and will continue to do so... I think I can accurately say that the vast vast majority of Americans don't want to be racist. It's not something that we consciously pursue. It's simply that sometimes circumstance and ignorance get the better of us.

Now, exclusive, I'm forced to turn the tables. Despite my poor French, I picked up on many conversations where Muslims were being harshly insulted during my trip. Even as far north as Rennes. Is this not a problem across the pond?


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
    #4041480 - 04/11/05 04:52 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:

Americans are race-nuts.




ya see that's what i was thinking, i just wasn't too sure and wanted confirmation.

Quote:

And after over 100 years the Ku Klux Klan is still legal and even has a TV station.




Are you serious!  :eek: that's crazy.

Quote:

The heart of the matter in my view are the position of the media and their puppeteers, the Government, who made fear politics and "divide and conquer" into standard domestic and international politics.

But in a nutshell: I believe it's as strong as it was, but in all shapes and guises. Currently the focus of hate and fear lies on the middle east. Guantanamo Bay is nothing less then a Concentration Camp. A place that violates just about any international law in the book. And what is one of it's restrictions? Ah right: only non-Americans can end up there. Nuff said.




:thumbup:


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Gijith]
    #4041538 - 04/11/05 05:14 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Gijith said:
And I think that same fear is the usual force behind racism the world over. It just happens to be perpetual in American society, as we are such a melting pot. But I think that America, as a country, has come a very long way and will continue to do so... I think I can accurately say that the vast vast majority of Americans don't want to be racist. It's not something that we consciously pursue. It's simply that sometimes circumstance and ignorance get the better of us.




Yes, i agree with you. And this is where "Bowling for Columbine" is a nice witness to what you are saying. Because people don't really want to be racist, its more like they are conditioned to. The media plays a huge role in this, its the main circumstance that you're talking about. But at the same time you can't put all the blame on the media, cuz the fact is that people are ignorant. So yes, when you say "It's simply that sometimes circumstance and ignorance get the better of us", i totally agree with you, and its something that is rather sad to see.

Quote:


Now, exclusive, I'm forced to turn the tables. Despite my poor French, I picked up on many conversations where Muslims were being harshly insulted during my trip. Even as far north as Rennes. Is this not a problem across the pond?




Actually, about 10 miles from where i live, the police discovered a house where lots of weapons and ammunitions, as well as lots old Nazi objects, weapons, books (multiple copies of Mein Kampf were found) etc.. They even talked about this on the evening news. Where i live, there's a majority of old retired folks and the extreme right party (fascists) usually gets a high score when its time to vote (an average of 15%). And its funny because around here there are practically only white people, and in big cities where there are lots of blacks asians and muslims, the extreme-right party gets practically no score, like 2%.  :grin:

So yes, its a big problem in france as well, French people do have a problem with strangers, France has a history of xenophobicism, but i think there's a slight difference between being xenophobic and being racist. But both have the same root; fear. And it depends where you find yourself in France, just like for the US.


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Racism in the US [Re: Phluck]
    #4041555 - 04/11/05 05:19 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)



Logical conclusion? Could you explain that to me?


If it is not a race's fault for their own failure, then the only possible explanation for their failure is racism against them. The subject of ambition or intelligence cannot be discussed, because modern society insists we are "all equal". But the facts are we are not. You can list mind boggling statistics about different races in jails and their income levels, and it is ALL attributed to racism against them.


Uh, thanks to the ways genes spread, and the massive mixing of cultures due to advances in communication and transportation, the races are becoming closer, if anything.


Besides a select few, blacks marry blacks, asians marry asians, and mexicans marry mexicans, and whites marry whites. The disproportionate amount of blacks in jails and at the poverty level of society does not seem to be changing even remotely enough to say we are becoming "closer".


--------------------
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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: looner2]
    #4041598 - 04/11/05 05:26 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

You can list mind boggling statistics about different races in jails and their income levels, and it is ALL attributed to racism against them.




That is because, if you allow yourself to do some complex thinking about the current situation and it's ramifications, the "mind boggling difference" is to the full extent of it's significance, brought about by racism.


--------------------
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Invisiblelooner2
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
    #4041614 - 04/11/05 05:30 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

"Affirmative Action" is bitterly fought. Now you may agree or disagree with what comprises contemporary "affirmative action" but the average "outspoken" white American will basically fight any advance of his non-white countrymen, if that means a temporary setback for themselves. Objectivity is lost.

An advancement of "non-white countrymen" is not to implement state sponsored racism.

That seems to be the prevalent liberal thought nowadays. It is "ok" to be racist against whites, but not against blacks.

A couple months ago a black leader named, shabazz or something visited the University of Pittsburgh. While here he made some interesting statements...

A white student asked shabazz if he hated him because he was white. Shabazz said he presumed he was a racist, and refused to shake his hand.

During the speech the lights accidently went out for about 20 seconds. He said, and I quote, "They want us to get scared and leave", he then started a chant of "black power" as the audience joined in.

He later said, " we are the orginal people of this planet, we produced the white man".

The cool thing about this was the coverage in the paper the next day. You would think and hope the wonderful liberal newspaper would speak out against his racism, but no... he got front page and not a single negative thing said about him. No letters sent to the paper in the following weeks denouncing him either... nothing.

Racism is accepted in liberal minds these days, as long as its against the whites.


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4041632 - 04/11/05 05:33 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
  In fact, I'm willing to bet the asshole ratio in France matches the asshole ratio in America.




hehe, i've actually thought about this one before, and although its true that there are many assholes in france, i think that the american asshole ratio is far greater than the french one  :wink:

Quote:

I will also agree with you that the "anti-French" thing in America seems to have gone a bit far.  I think a lot of it has to do with the "attitude" that Americans perceive from French people.  I can't nail down any specifics, but I get the feeling that a lot of French people have this "I am an enlightened European and you are a neaderthal American" attitude.




i'm just guessing, but maybe it has to do with the fact that americans just let themselves be lead by their government like little sheeps. you guys are so easily manipulated. us french people, when we're not happy with what's going on, we let the whole world know! we go marchin' in the streets, we go on strike, basically, we just use our power! but you guys just submit to the power. you don't let your voice be heard. so from the outside, it seems like the voice of the population of America is the voice of Bush, the governemnt. And although we're not as stupid as to think that all americans agree with Bush, that's what it seems like!

but that's just me rambling... :smirk:


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: looner2]
    #4041655 - 04/11/05 05:38 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

WICCAN_SEEKER said:
.
"Affirmative Action" is bitterly fought. Now you may agree or disagree with what comprises contemporary "affirmative action" but the average "outspoken" white American will basically fight any advance of his non-white countrymen, if that means a temporary setback for themselves. Objectivity is lost.




Quote:

LOONER2 said:
.
An advancement of "non-white countrymen" is not to implement state sponsored racism.

That seems to be the prevalent liberal thought nowadays. It is "ok" to be racist against whites, but not against blacks.




Quote:

WICCAN_SEEKER repeats:
.
Objectivity is lost.




State sponsored racism against whites? The USA? You call yourself looner, I call you a nutter.


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
    #4041696 - 04/11/05 05:45 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)


That is because, if you allow yourself to do some complex thinking about the current situation and it's ramifications, the "mind boggling difference" is to the full extent of it's significance, brought about by racism.



Thank you for proving my point.

Homicide Offense Rate by Race (1976-2000):

White 5.1 per 100,000
Blacks 39.3 per 100,000
Others: 5.2 per 100,000


Racist fucking white pieces of shit, look how many blacks they forced into MURDERING someone. Down with the white man.


--------------------
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Edited by looner2 (04/11/05 05:47 PM)


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: exclusive58]
    #4041728 - 04/11/05 05:53 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

you guys are so easily manipulated.




Now you're stirring up a riot! Get real, you don't want that said about your country, ei? Chauvinism is a French word.

Democracy is also a French word. In the US it's just one of two political parties, and the others have the ball now.
FOUR MORE YEARS!

Quote:

us french people, when we're not happy with what's going on, we let the whole world know! we go marchin' in the streets, we go on strike, basically, we just use our power!




Ah but here you're wrong! The Americans do that too. But you underestimate the fact that the US is a totalitarian regime led by a dictor. When there were anti-Iraq war protests ("Not In My Name", you must've heard that) the authorities merrily turned some old building that was polluted weith chemicals into a mini Concentration Camp with 1000s of inmates in the New York harbour!

It's just like in France, or Holland, or Pakistan.
THE MASSES ARE ASSES.
The Shroomery would never have condoned the Iraq war. But every country is misled by their leaders and if millions of sheep start the stampede in one direction, you can't go another way.

The opposition in the US is *LOUD* but they are swept under the rug by the media.

Quote:

so from the outside, it seems like the voice of the population of America is the voice of Bush, the governemnt.




Thats because you know most of em through the media, the same media that supress the voices of protest. Only 1:1 contact with Americans, real or online, will paint you the true picture. Please note the Internet community is the intellectual elite though!
If the Shroomery was the true world, the world would be a better place. It's a special place we got here. :heart:


--------------------
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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: looner2]
    #4041741 - 04/11/05 05:56 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Looner:

Transcend your closed-mindedness. You repeat yourself like I did not understand you, but my answers to the things you repeat are all over my earlier posts. Please address those.

Homicide rates among whites in Vietnam during the war were rather high too. You got to look at the whole situation, not a dumb statistic. NOTHING PROMOTES MURDER LIKE ENVIROMENT. WHO WOULD COLLECTIVELY CHOOSE LIVE IN CONDITIONS THAT PROMOTE HOMICIDAL BEHAVIOR?


--------------------
YE OLDE CLICK-O-RAMA FEST :fairy: ASANTE'S PREPAREDNESS 101
Get 1 month's supplies in case of illness or calamity and help loved ones.
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Edited by Asante (04/11/05 05:59 PM)


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
    #4041875 - 04/11/05 06:29 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)


State sponsored racism against whites? The USA? You call yourself looner, I call you a nutter.


True or False

1.) A white applying for a job has a greater chance of being turned down based on color with respect to government instituted laws and regulations.

2.) A black applying for a job has a greater chance of being hired based on his color with respect to government instituted laws and regulations.


I'll give a hint, they are both true. This is an example of state-sponsored racism.


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
    #4041922 - 04/11/05 06:36 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Homicide rates among whites in Vietnam during the war were rather high too. You got to look at the whole situation, not a dumb statistic. NOTHING PROMOTES MURDER LIKE ENVIROMENT. WHO WOULD COLLECTIVELY CHOOSE LIVE IN CONDITIONS THAT PROMOTE HOMICIDAL BEHAVIOR?

It is a dumb statistic that blacks are 8 times more likely to kill someone than a white? Sounds horrible to me, but then again, murdering is wrong in my book. It is not one of those liberal "gray" areas that you seem fond of speaking of.

Murder is the killing of a human being. It transcends environment and neighborhood, it goes beyond having a "bad" influence and not getting a new CD every christmas. It shows a severe lack of moral development, and a profound inability to look past ones own ego. In one word, it describes a savage.

Blacks do this 8 times more often than anyone else. That tells me something.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: exclusive58]
    #4042010 - 04/11/05 06:50 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not racist or anything... but really a lot of minorities have more benefits in USA then if you were white...

I can't get a scholorship on the basis of my ethnicity, and if they were to have an all white college, I'm sure the double standard wouldn't hold up. African Americans can have BET, if they were to announce a WET... shit would hit the fan, (not talking in regards to media/television as it is dominantly white) as for some reason having an all white channel more then likely wouldn't go over so well.

Regardless of that, the youth are dumb over where I am. Gangs, the blood/crypt deal, qualification of people and if they are "shady" or not on the basis of their ethnicity is rampant. People bitching about filthy Mexicans stealing all the jobs, people bitching that black people (often they refer to them as Niggers) are all theifs and drug addicts. :shrug: Ultimately it's not really an issue, as ignorance has always been around, the greater issue is the ignorant people.

So, with the bias of scholastic achievements among other things, and giving those of certain races better treatement in certain situations, what else should we expect? We openly promote racial distinction, such that the obvious result is racial descrimination.


--------------------
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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: looner2]
    #4042077 - 04/11/05 07:08 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

You're dazzled by numbers.

Quote:

Murder is the killing of a human being. It transcends environment and neighborhood.




No it does not. If I place you in the Vietnam war and some guy storms you with a hissing grenade, you shoot him without thinking. Without regard if he's a yellow Viet Cong or a white, yellow, red or black platoonmember who's gone wild.
Thats enviroment for you.

Murder? A bit of premeditation, the pull of the trigger in a state of unrealness by reflex or psychological withdrawal and then a lifetime of regret.. or nothing at all. The sad truth is that we all are readily brought into a killing mindset. Hey, we're apes, no better than any Hominid before or after humanity in that aspect.
Take a close look at war situation: To not kill people is little more then an agreement amongst ourselves. A madman who shoots 20 people at the post office gets shot or the chair. A soldier who shoots 20 enemies gets a purple heart (and PTSD but thats after the fact)

So the murder capability statistic is

99.000/100.000

20.000/100.000 is the actual number of combat soldiers who do kill

and you're talking about a mere marginal one or two digits? That is just about ENTIRELY caused by the enviroment the people live in, which for blacks in many places resembles an empoverished war zone more then for whites. Who would want to voluntarily live in a war zone? Have you ever had the thought people don't want to live in a ghetto-like enviroment, but are trapped there by economic factors?

Please produce a statistic on the wealth distribution in the US across racial lines. Poverty is correlated with desperation and desperation is associated with violence and murder.

Quote:

In one word, it describes a savage.




Now that sounds a bit like the good ole fashion racism.

Quote:

That tells me something.




What your line of reasoning tells me is that you see what you want to see and restrict your thought to affirming what you think to know.

20.000/100.000 soldiers kill in a combat situation.

20.000 is pretty far removed from 32.

And how many black soldiers did you count committing the atrocities in that Iraqi prison? A bit less than the number of black soldiers in the Army. That was a white racist game. Those were white creampuffs, pampered by a racist culture, who were as evil as Saddam's own, after having been out of America for mere weeks.
Yeeeeee-haww! You don't see European soldiers doing that. You don't see black American soldiers doing that.


--------------------
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Edited by Asante (04/11/05 07:11 PM)


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
    #4042109 - 04/11/05 07:16 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

My friend was hospitalized a few months ago after being nearly beaten to death because he was white. He was just walking home from my house and minding his own business when a group of people started calling him names and jumped him.

Of course, I live in chicago so i guess thats the risk you take walking around here.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Catalysis]
    #4042198 - 04/11/05 07:34 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

My friend was hospitalized a few months ago after being nearly beaten to death because he was white. He was just walking home from my house and minding his own business when a group of people started calling him names and jumped him.




That's a horrible story. I hope he'll be ok. The way you tell it is was a racist attack. It would be no reason to start hating the ethnic group to which those criminals belong to. (I know you're not saying that) The ones who did this, if your version is correct, committed a racist attack and should be ran through the penile system for that.

I have great understanding for the likeliness of human violence, but those who commit it out of anything but clear defense are by no means excused from bearing the consequences of it.

If you victimize, you pay the price. I hope your friend will be allright.


--------------------
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InvisibleDirtMcgirt
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Re: Racism in the US [Re: Catalysis]
    #4042397 - 04/11/05 08:31 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Racism against whites is more tolerated in general than racism from whites.  In the media this is due, in my opinion, to white guilt(of numerous past atrocities and a current domination economically, culturally, and politically) allowing such things to happen.  This also affirms stupid racist rhetoric from whites in believing whatever they want as they start to see themselves as victims in our society which is hardly the case.  I find nothing wrong with black solidarirty or white solidarity or la raza or whatever but blaming the "white man" the "niggers" or the "mexicans" for your own or your countries problems is obtuse at best.  This is getting better though but as it stands it is still very prevailent.


Also, the economic and social trends here affirm racist leanings (blacks are criminals and whites are rice, racist, elitists etc.) Just read looner's rants in this thread for a better description of this. 



Racism is just as prevalent among all races here.  It doesn't only exist as your stereotypical suburban white person assuming every latino is a gardener.  I live in LA  (not in the white-bred western part either) and I (white-boy) encounter racist BS daily.  It used to get to me but I've come to the realization that it all comes in full circle and I imagine a black man living in South Dakota feels the same way.  If somebody dislikes me because I'm white fuck 'em and if they try and rob me assuming I have money they will be in for a sorry suprise in the form of an empty wallet and buck knife in their belly.


Whats all this lead to?  Well, racism breeds racism out of bitterness and self-victimization.  You can't force onto people a belief system but a start would be to remove racist policies in our government (affirmative action on one end & unequal public school funding on the other  etc, ect, etc...) and representation in our media (like racist double standards, demonizing stereotypes, and removing unequal access to our media sources [media consolidation:thumbdown:]) only then will the race problem grow from its plateau its been at since the civil rights movement of the 60s.  After that assimilation and acceptance can only follow in time.


--------------------
"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Racism in the US [Re: Catalysis]
    #4042468 - 04/11/05 08:46 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

.


Edited by DieCommie (11/21/16 03:45 PM)


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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: Racism in the US [Re: Asante]
    #4042487 - 04/11/05 08:51 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Quote:

My friend was hospitalized a few months ago after being nearly beaten to death because he was white. He was just walking home from my house and minding his own business when a group of people started calling him names and jumped him.




That's a horrible story. I hope he'll be ok. The way you tell it is was a racist attack. It would be no reason to start hating the ethnic group to which those criminals belong to. (I know you're not saying that) The ones who did this, if your version is correct, committed a racist attack and should be ran through the penile system for that.

I have great understanding for the likeliness of human violence, but those who commit it out of anything but clear defense are by no means excused from bearing the consequences of it.

If you victimize, you pay the price. I hope your friend will be allright.




Yeah he will be ok. He had a bruised kidney and 2 cracked ribs, mostly from kicks to the torso but thankfully someone called the police and he was taken to the hospital right away.

Of course I realize that many blacks face the same stuff when going through white neigborhoods. Its just that now i am honestly scared when i walk to the L train and i see black people down my street. Does that make me racist? I have always considered myself very open to everyone of all genders, races, and creeds. I don't really know what to think at this point.


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