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 dorkus
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
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 Question for those who believe in astrology. *DELETED* 
#4034769 - 04/09/05 03:46 PM (19 years, 11 days ago) |
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Post deleted by dorkus
Reason for deletion: .
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 alsey
meet me in thedreamtimewater...
Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 1,203
Last seen: 15 years, 21 days
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 Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: dorkus]
#4034776 - 04/09/05 03:50 PM (19 years, 11 days ago) |
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personally i think astrology is a pile of shit, but i think the idea is that the time/position of your birth in relation to celestial bodies influences your personality, rather than determines it.
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"Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana
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egghead1
Nakedly Open
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Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: dorkus]
#4034778 - 04/09/05 03:52 PM (19 years, 11 days ago) |
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I met a woman who was born at exactly the same time as me on exactly the same day i the exact same hospital. We were very close for a long time, like brother and sister. Its strange that you should mention this becuase i was thinking about her yesturday. We were actually quite similar people, but i asked my mother and she was pretty sure she only gave birth to one child that day 
Sadly ive lost contact with this woman, but i think about here very now and again. 
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All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!
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the_phoenix
Stranger
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: egghead1]
#4034801 - 04/09/05 04:03 PM (19 years, 11 days ago) |
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Think of the planets like signal conductors for universal energies/frequencies. But there's more to a person's character than his astrological traits like alsey said. I've only recently looked into astrology and it seems immensely promising.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: the_phoenix]
#4034829 - 04/09/05 04:11 PM (19 years, 11 days ago) |
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...it seems immensely promising...
Every test of astrology has fallen flat. Tests of murderers, elite athletes, world leaders, etc. shows no patterning whatsoever.
Astrology is based upon NOTHING. Even astrologers cannot tell you where the idea came from that a sun in Mercury means that someone will be more aggressive. It is a total fabrication. Astrologers don't even agree with each other because there is no foundation.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: Swami]
#4034839 - 04/09/05 04:14 PM (19 years, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:
Astrology is based upon NOTHING. Even astrologers cannot tell you where the idea came from that a sun in Mercury means that someone will be more aggressive. It is a total fabrication. Astrologers don't even agree with each other because there is no foundation.
Not only that, but the signs that correspond with given periods of time no longer even match up with that period of time, as there is a type of spin that the Earth goes through that was unaccounted for when this system was "devised"...
 
Peace. 
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
 
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: dorkus]
#4034910 - 04/09/05 04:31 PM (19 years, 11 days ago) |
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Assuming you believe it to be true, due to spatial considerations, they'd have slight variances, as no 2 beings can be in the exact space at one time (although, astrology as a pseudo-science doesn't have the ability to be that precise in it's determinant of our nature, thus they would ultimately end up being one in the same in respects to natal charts). Their have been some times as with electrical phenomena having a slight influence onto the child at birth, however, nor correlation in respects to celestial mechanics has been proven that corresponds to a particular persona.
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
Edited by Psychoactive1984 (04/09/05 04:37 PM)
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: Psychoactive1984]
#4038466 - 04/10/05 07:48 PM (19 years, 10 days ago) |
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--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
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eMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....
Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
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 Swami and Astrology.... [Re: Swami]
#4038967 - 04/10/05 10:06 PM (19 years, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:
Astrology is based upon NOTHING. Even astrologers cannot tell you where the ****idea**** came from that a sun in Mercury means that someone will be more aggressive. It is a total fabrication. Astrologers don't even agree with each other because there is no foundation.
.
You say it is based on "NOTHING", then say it comes from "ideas".... Ideas don't have to agree, just as you pointed out....
.
.
An "idea" IS.... A "fabrication" of "foundation" from "nothing" and/or "nowhere"....  
.
.
Clever you are to use words in a way to *seem* like you are coming off as conflicting on the surface,
but the meaning of your words *seem* to support the "idea" itself - unless I have misread your intended meaning.... 
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Uni-VersALL  MasterPeace
eMotive  Divinity NowThere Infinity eMelody
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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*I think it would the sun in Mars, irrelevant though*
Regardless of it's truth, Astrology asserts a degree of accurateness in it's proposed knowledge of what affects an individual's nature...
However, Astrology doesn't make alterations in terms of planets getting hit by asteroids, throwing the path off a little, and other such celestial phenomena such as outside bodies entering the system and exerting a gravitational effect on said static bodies (in terms of how astrology is applied)...
In which case, by the fact of the dynamic nature of our solar system, and how astrology relies on the interactions of our solar system our signs should be dynamic, as well as the interpretations of, as new objects comming in alter planetary interactions. However, it's a relatively static scince, and doesn't use all the variables that would be necessary to provide as much accuracy as would be necessary to qualify it as a real science.
It's founded on generalizations, and such that nothing can prove it's absolute affects beyond what is suggested. I can talk in terms of the universe as a cake that isn't yet fully baked, and make many general abstractions that will relate to phenomena such as it rising and hence the universal growth known to exist... however, I hope we can all agree that the universe, indeed isn't a cake.
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
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eMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....
Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
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I really don't "know" to much about Astrology....
.
But I can say that the Universe is an Idea, an Idea full of endless ideas....
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Uni-VersALL MasterPeace
eMotive Divinity NowThere Infinity eMelody
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Swami and Astrology.... [Re: dorkus]
#4039263 - 04/10/05 11:17 PM (19 years, 10 days ago) |
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I'm of the opinion that the time at which someone is born is one of many factors influencing their personality. I don't, however, attribute it to any sort of planetary alignment, but merely seasonal, social, cultural, and historical factors.
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: dorkus]
#4040045 - 04/11/05 05:37 AM (19 years, 10 days ago) |
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If your interested in astrology then the next stage is to start researching 'cold reading'.
Then you can learn how easy it is to manipulate with words.
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vampirism
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: dorkus]
#4040147 - 04/11/05 07:44 AM (19 years, 10 days ago) |
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believe what you will. I looked into most astrology and found it to be worthless bull. Mayan Astrology I'm not so sure about. Actually, I'm damn sure it's on target. How can you test it? Youd need the birthDATE of a million people and their occupation to start, but you'd need to find some ingenious way to separate action/reaction elements. Few people get a job because they love it, but it's precisely those who love it that are important to test.
As for me I find it kind of strange how mayan astrology just so happens to list what my key strengths are, what I do when I'm down, what question I've always and constantly asked myself, and also targets immediate relations around me.
Is it testable? well I don't think so. But I suspect that's a flaw in testing. Every single system ever in existence has had a major flaw.
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vampirism
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: dorkus]
#4040150 - 04/11/05 07:45 AM (19 years, 10 days ago) |
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oh, and I pose you this question: have you ever met someone who was born on the same exact day you were?
I haven't. Don't knock something down because you think it sounds ridiculous. Those people are extremely rare.
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slaphappy
Its just me
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Loc: Norway, Eidsvoll, RÃ¥holt...
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: vampirism]
#4040293 - 04/11/05 09:01 AM (19 years, 10 days ago) |
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It works for me.
Argue that, if you like.
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The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.
 
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Help on the Way
Slipknot420
Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 2,893
Loc: Another World
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: vampirism]
#4040401 - 04/11/05 09:38 AM (19 years, 10 days ago) |
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i know a couple girls who were born on the same day as me
its fucking crazy how alike we are and how many weird parallels our lives had.......................???
--------------------
 *Divine Moments of Truth*
"Limitless undying love which shines around me like a million suns - it calls me on and on across the universe" ~ John Lennon
"Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right" ~The Grateful Dead
"Religionists, with their guaranteed eventual paradise, of which they know nothing, taking it all on 'faith,' can't be expected to understand or sympathize with those with a yen to storm the Gate of Heaven and see for themselves what all the praying's about!" ~Robert Hunter
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: slaphappy]
#4041419 - 04/11/05 02:39 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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It "works", meaning what exactly?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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question_for_joo
i'm left. youall can bite me
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 1,591
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: Swami]
#4042236 - 04/11/05 05:43 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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It "works" for me too.
Works meaning the astrological prediction of me seem to be accurate.
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youi was a pig informatnt so you can go fuckyoruselfs
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: question_for_joo]
#4042267 - 04/11/05 05:54 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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If you believed that, you would be willing to make a wager on it. To date some 87 astrological believers have backed down (because EVEN THEY have no real faith in it). Might as well make it one more. 
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The proof is in the pudding.
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question_for_joo
i'm left. youall can bite me
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 1,591
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: Swami]
#4042302 - 04/11/05 06:06 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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What's the question?
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youi was a pig informatnt so you can go fuckyoruselfs
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question_for_joo
i'm left. youall can bite me
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 1,591
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: question_for_joo]
#4042336 - 04/11/05 06:17 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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I mean if the challenge is something like "ok I will give you a famous person and you tell me his sign" that's very difficult because Astrology has lots of different areas to describe people.... like the way personalities have lots of different aspects... a person's communication style, a person's friendship style, a person's Oh Caroline No style, a person's Jimmy was Jesus Christ and he tried to retard my mental development through ripping off parts of the pope with his teeth and chewing up the popes corpse is against religion.
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youi was a pig informatnt so you can go fuckyoruselfs
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: question_for_joo]
#4042341 - 04/11/05 06:18 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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You tell me what SPECIFICALLY that astrology can predict about your life.
Note: Astrologically proponents can amazingly match up a reading with their sign about 8.5% of the time.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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eMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....
Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: Swami]
#4042342 - 04/11/05 06:20 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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It can predict your birth.... (in a past tense)
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Uni-VersALL MasterPeace
eMotive Divinity NowThere Infinity eMelody
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question_for_joo
i'm left. youall can bite me
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 1,591
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: Swami]
#4042360 - 04/11/05 06:24 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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It can specifically predict that I concern myself with home matters and my immediate family. How's that?
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youi was a pig informatnt so you can go fuckyoruselfs
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: question_for_joo]
#4042387 - 04/11/05 06:30 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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That is totally fucking unbelievable.  Does it also "predict" that you will get hungry, horny and tired?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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question_for_joo
i'm left. youall can bite me
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 1,591
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: Swami]
#4042400 - 04/11/05 06:32 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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hey don't swear!
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youi was a pig informatnt so you can go fuckyoruselfs
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: question_for_joo]
#4042410 - 04/11/05 06:34 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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*hangs head in shame*
I didn't mean to say "predict"...
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The proof is in the pudding.
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question_for_joo
i'm left. youall can bite me
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 1,591
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: Swami]
#4042425 - 04/11/05 06:37 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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Well, I don't know.....alright well let me say that just about everything it says is more or less right...and it says specific things, things that certainly don't apply to everyone. And what's more interesting is that in cookie-cutter readings the things that it says that are wrong are where there's something unusual going on, like a conjunction of two planets right on top of each other.
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youi was a pig informatnt so you can go fuckyoruselfs
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: question_for_joo]
#4042453 - 04/11/05 06:44 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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You just gotta love a belief with a built-in escape clause as to why it doesn't work. 
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The proof is in the pudding.
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question_for_joo
i'm left. youall can bite me
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 1,591
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: Swami]
#4042475 - 04/11/05 06:48 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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It's not that in those cases astrology isn't working it's that one influence is distorting or dominating the other. Just like in genetics when the dominant gene appears and the recessive gene is hidden. We wouldn't say that heredity is broken if two dark haired people had a blonde child because we know it's a complicated system.
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youi was a pig informatnt so you can go fuckyoruselfs
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question_for_joo
i'm left. youall can bite me
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 1,591
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: question_for_joo]
#4042570 - 04/11/05 07:14 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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ok I guess I won that argument.
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youi was a pig informatnt so you can go fuckyoruselfs
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
#4042876 - 04/11/05 08:33 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: Swami]
#4042888 - 04/11/05 08:37 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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"Astrology is not a valid form of magical divination because it assumes a causal relationship between events which are linked only very weakly if at all. If the relationship were strong , then astrology would be an ordinary secular science. As the relationship is very weak, astrology owes whatever success it has to the natural prescience of its practitioners and obscures its failures with imprecision, evasiveness and ambiguity." Liber Null & Psychonaut.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: dorkus]
#4043589 - 04/11/05 11:40 PM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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I do find that I get a certain vibe off of people born under certain signs before I get any confirmation. It's not something I can quantify, or describe in words, but I feel like my intuition picks up on it sometimes. No, it's not something I'm willing to make a wager on, because I wouldn't even know how to go about proving something like that, nor am I in any way certain that it's anything more than coincidence, but it's enough to prevent me from dismissing it outright.
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Delusion_of_Self
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/05
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: Silversoul]
#4044390 - 04/12/05 04:47 AM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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Autobiography of a Yogi
by Paramahansa Yogananda
Quote:
"Mukunda, why don't you get an astrological armlet?"
"Should I, Master? I don't believe in astrology."
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief.
"Charlatans have brought the stellar science to its present state of disrepute. Astrology is too vast, both mathematically and philosophically, to be rightly grasped except by men of profound understanding. If ignoramuses misread the heavens, and see there a scrawl instead of a script, that is to be expected in this imperfect world. One should not dismiss the wisdom with the 'wise.'
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"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar
Edited by Delusion_of_Self (04/12/05 04:48 AM)
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Delusion_of_Self
Stranger
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Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: Swami]
#4044398 - 04/12/05 04:54 AM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:
You tell me what SPECIFICALLY that astrology can predict about your life.
Note: Astrologically proponents can amazingly match up a reading with their sign about 8.5% of the time.
In the autobiography says also....
Quote:
"The message boldly blazoned across the heavens at the moment of birth is not meant to emphasize fate?the result of past good and evil?but to arouse man's will to escape from his universal thralldom. What he has done, he can undo. None other than himself was the instigator of the causes of whatever effects are now prevalent in his life. He can overcome any limitation, because he created it by his own actions in the first place, and because he has spiritual resources which are not subject to planetary pressure.
"Superstitious awe of astrology makes one an automaton, slavishly dependent on mechanical guidance. The wise man defeats his planets?which is to say, his past?by transferring his allegiance from the creation to the Creator. The more he realizes his unity with Spirit, the less he can be dominated by matter. The soul is ever-free; it is deathless because birthless. It cannot be regimented by stars.
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"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar
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moog
Stranger
Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1,296
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Re: Question for those who believe in astrology. [Re: dorkus]
#4045144 - 04/12/05 10:38 AM (19 years, 9 days ago) |
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Astrology may determine some character traits for a person, but you have to remember that genetics play a much larger role, which form the archetypal personalities like Myers-Briggs or however you want to classify them. It isn't wrong to say that there might be something to this astrology stuff. What is wrong though is to think someone's personality can be attributed entirely to their sun sign, as well as to use this assumption in any sort of testing of astrology.
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