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OfflineHoof_Hearted
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Registered: 08/09/01
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5-Hydroxytryptophan
    #403469 - 09/25/01 11:55 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Noticed some threads in the past re: using 5-HTP for substrate enrichment. However, did not find any relevant follow-ups. Most responses had to do with people orally ingesting 5-HTP which is not what I refer to. THEORY: 5-HTP might be used as a metabolic precursor (in the mushroom) to enhance magic potency. The idea would be to test 5-HTP (in the substrate) as a potential precursor for the "magic stuff", NOT to ingest 5-HTP as a precursor for endogenous serotonin...Any one have any clinical observations regarding this theory?



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OfflineBeppoMarx
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Re: 5-Hydroxytryptophan [Re: Hoof_Hearted]
    #403494 - 09/25/01 12:28 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I also have been looking for some relevant info on this also, not that exact compound but tryptamines in general. from what ive read, adding small amounts (1 to 3%) of a tryptamine (it didnt give a specific one) to a substrate has repordedly increased psilocybin by up to 3x original. i believe it is very possible as it has been documented in cases but if it has been done by anyone here i could not say. ive researched and researched on mycology, so i have a good general idea of all this but i am still a newbie waiting for his first flush of cubies. soon as i get some success ill start with experimenting; this stuff is hella interesting to me. i think im having at least as much fun growing as i do tripin :). then again i havent tripped off my own flushes yet so that may change in a few wks.



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Holy shit people; COMMON SENSE! we were all born with it where did it go?
maybe theres a tek out there to explain how to use it!
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OfflineChemical_Smile
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Re: 5-Hydroxytryptophan [Re: BeppoMarx]
    #404615 - 09/26/01 10:21 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I have also searched for info but come up short. Please keep us posted if you experiment!

"For democracy any man would give his only begotten son"


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OfflineMs_Brown
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Re: 5-Hydroxytryptophan [Re: Chemical_Smile]
    #404683 - 09/26/01 11:54 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I think Gatz tried this and found that it had no influence on "magic" production. I don't remember where I saw it, but I think it was here somewhere. Check in pharmacology.

" It's hard to be free. But, when it works, it sure is worth it !" J. Joplin


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" It's hard to be free. But, when it works, it sure is worth it !" J. Joplin


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Offlinehongus
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Re: 5-Hydroxytryptophan [Re: Hoof_Hearted]
    #404713 - 09/26/01 12:40 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

the thing to have in mind is, to know if the mycelium uses the 5-http to make the alkaloid, or if it uses any other raw material and what encymes trigger their production...

my lucky guess

He somehow manages to breathe in his sepia, wounded-tea, liquid ambiance suspension.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: 5-Hydroxytryptophan [Re: Ms_Brown]
    #405947 - 09/27/01 09:23 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Actually Jochan Gartz in 1989 found that by raising the trytamine levels in rice and dung substrates by 25 millimolars had a direc effect on the potency of Ps. Cubensis - raising psilocin levels from .09% to 3.3%!!! although this also slightly depressing psilocybin levels. And yes, I am aware that i have nearly completely quoted from Stamets!!:-)



www.shaman-australis.com/shroom/


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OfflineBeppoMarx
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Re: 5-Hydroxytryptophan [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #406009 - 09/27/01 11:32 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

yes the .9% to 3.3% is what i saw also. i have not read Staments or Gartz at all, and i was unaware of teh slight (if any) decrease in psilocybin. to further note what i do know though, through much discussion in the advanced forum and other readings (web based) that it is not the psilocin that causes the altered neural transmission 'trip', but it is the alkaloid psilocybin that does most of the work. upon entering the body most of the psilocin is extracted by the liver and excreted as waste. the fun comes from the body's reaction of breaking down the psilocybin into the psilocin state and that psilocin is what interrupts the brain. i am not 100% sure why the original psilocin would be deemed so inactive, im no expert by far but this is what i read and hear time again. if anyoe has any more comments on this i would appreciate it.

Edited by BeppoMarx on 09/27/01 10:35 AM.



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Holy shit people; COMMON SENSE! we were all born with it where did it go?
maybe theres a tek out there to explain how to use it!
BUCKETS BRIGADE left hand man!!!


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OfflineMs_Brown
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Re: 5-Hydroxytryptophan [Re: BeppoMarx]
    #406767 - 09/27/01 10:15 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I was talking about the addition of 5-hydroxytryptophan (serotonin). I found the article where I read it. It was actualy tryptophan that was tried, with poor results. Tryptamine will certainly boost production of magic.

Psilocin is actualy more potent than is psilocybin, mole per mole. Psilocin, as far as I know, is what makes fresh mushies hit so fast. Psilocybin must be dephosphoralated in the body by an enzyme (alkaline dephosphorylase). This process takes a while, which is why dried shrooms take longer to hit. (the reason for this is because psilocin degrades much more rapidly than does psilocybin. So, in dried shrooms there is much less psilcin) I'm, not sure I've stated this in the clearest way. But, I try.

" It's hard to be free. But, when it works, it sure is worth it !" J. Joplin


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" It's hard to be free. But, when it works, it sure is worth it !" J. Joplin


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: 5-Hydroxytryptophan [Re: Ms_Brown]
    #406807 - 09/27/01 10:33 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

From my understanding - psilocin is a more active compound. Enzymes in your body quickly breakdown psilocybin into the indole psilocin which is the active component of mushrooms. An example would be a highly blue-staining strain - proof of a high level of psilocin that is being oxidised after bruising - this mushroom will be rendered far less potent as its stem stains bluer... Also if you freeze mushrooms, their inner cells will burst, oxidising most of the psilocin and rendering the specimen far less potent.
Liberty Caps have a high level of psilocybin and almost non-existent levels of psilocin - this accounts for their minimal bluing reaction and also the fact that they stay very potent when dried as psilocybin is far more stable...
There are a myriad of other active alkaloids such as baeocystin, nor-baeocystin and aeruginacine that are all indoles..
However, the point about psilocybin and its conversion seems interesting when you compare Psilo. Cubensis and Psilo. Cyanescens. Cubensis levels on average of psilocin are nearly as high as its levels of psilocybin - 0.63% and 0.60% respectively - Ps. Cyanescens has a markedly higher level of psilocybin 0.85% and a lower psilocin 0.36%
That level of psilocybin is higher, but the level of psilocin is lower per specimen - yet no one can say that these species compare in activity...
I have found one dried or fresh specimen of psilo Cyanescens to literally blow my mind, yet 5-6 dried or fresh specimens of cubensis to not compare



www.shaman-australis.com/shroom/


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OfflineHoodz
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Re: 5-Hydroxytryptophan [Re: Hoof_Hearted]
    #5531615 - 04/19/06 12:47 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

From what I've read the mushrooms do convert added precursors into Psilocybin, the actual % being variable. So by adding tryptophan, 5-htp, or even better-tryptamine or dimethltryptamine will definitely raise the potency of your shrooms. I would also like to hear from people who have attempted this[i have read about GARTZ. experiment]so as to know the best methods of adding the precursors. The adding of tryptophan powder to a substrate before inoculating, would this cause mold? To inject into fruiting cakes via ready made injection sites seems viable to me. Or maybe simply added to the casing layer, such as to the Horse poo/pasteurized straw mix would be safest. Someone with 'real' practice in this, please fill us in. :mushroom2:


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OfflineSnaggletooth
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Re: 5-Hydroxytryptophan [Re: Hoodz]
    #5531636 - 04/19/06 12:51 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Check the date man....no need to raise the dead...lol :crazy2:


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OfflineHoodz
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Re: 5-Hydroxytryptophan [Re: Snaggletooth]
    #5535968 - 04/20/06 01:05 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Cheers Buddy-I once was blind, but now I see! :blush:


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