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Offlinescatmanrav
Brainy Smurf

Registered: 05/08/04
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How scatman does grain. * 2
    #4024831 - 04/07/05 02:30 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Heres what I do for grain prep. Work in progress..let me know if you see something odd or have any questions?

This is a combo of things I?ve taken from all over, but most of this I learned from Magash and then tweaked with some things from RodgerRabbit, myself, and others. Hope it helps

First thing for grain prep is deciding if you?re going to be spawning with it, or fruiting with it. If you?re fruiting with it, then I would suggest the soak/simmer method. Spawning works better when the grains are a bit drier though so a soak is enough. This write up is to deal with grain prep for fruiting. Skip to the notes if your spawning with it.

First thing to do is get the grains soaking. Rye/WBS combo is the best to use IMO. It gives the shrooms more nutes that they wouldn?t have had otherwise. Rye is also the better of the two grains when fruiting off of it IME, so this is why I do what I do. You can do as much or as little as you want, make the choice depending on how much you need and how much time you have. I have a scooper that I know, after time using it, that it makes about 2 quarts, and it holds slightly less then a pound of rye. My PC holds 10 quarts (and a pint) at a time, so I base my numbers off of this and how much time to do runs I?ll have. Generally I?ll figure 3 PC runs for 30 quarts from 15 scoops which is about 13 pounds of grain, total. This also needs to account for some verm added in later so I make it more like 13 scoops.

As I said before, I believe rye is a better grain to fruit from, which is why I use mostly rye. For 13 scoops, I?d put about 10 scoops rye into a pot that will hold 4 times the amount of dry grain as you put in (don?t put more grain in a pot than it takes to go ? way up). Then in a bowl throw in 3 scoops of WBS. Fill both with water and after 24 hours it should look something like this (these are different amounts so it will vary):


It will get pretty bubbly and pretty sour stinky smelling. That?s the whole reason for the soak, is to germinate the spores/endospores within the substrate to make them easier to kill when you PC them. You want to be careful that you don?t soak for to little, or to long. 12-24 hours is fine, I like 24 the best. In that time, the grain needs to stay FULLY submerged or it may germinate. It may anyways, and at that point you?ll need to cut back on soak time. Partially germinated grain can be used, but if it?s to much, it?s better to just toss it and take the loss then spend your time and spores.

I find that simmering my rye, and just leaving the WBS after the 24 hour soak is best. Simmering WBS can lead to too many burst kernels and after a 24 hour soak, its got a good amount of moisture in it. Don?t worry, there will be plenty of moisture in everything else! Rye will get a ton of moisture. It expands to about 3 times its dry size when it has fully absorbed all the water it can. I do not drain anything yet! At this point, I have not drained, or rinsed anything, I never bother. Add some more water to make sure the grains fully covered with an inch or two over it. You may need to add more as it cooks, absorbs, and swells. Throw it on high until it starts bubbling then turn it down to medium to keep it bubbling. Check on it every so often and keep it fully submerged, bubbling VERY lightly, until you start to see a couple burst kernels. As soon as you do, turn the water off and let it sit on the burner for about 10 minutes.

As soon as you start the rye simmering, dump the WBS into a strainer. I use 4 PVC pieces attached with corner pieces with metal screen stretched over it attached with zip ties and left with slack for stuff to sit and strain:


Strain well (small strainer multiple times into a bucket or bowl or something works, just takes way longer..large strainers are available cheap too that are smaller then mine at Wal-Mart) by spreading it out over the strainer (or if using a small one, strain for a good amount of time) and letting it drip while the rye simmers. I really suggest a large strainer if your going to be doing bulk fruiting of grain!

Now, once the rye has been simmered to perfection (see description above), dump it out, right on top of the WBS, on the strainer (again small strainer works, but sucks) and DO NOT RINSE! The steam is important! A lot of people have a hard time getting water content right and it needs to be full of moisture (which you know it is because its now 3 times its size) but look dry on the outside. If you rinse it you have to wait an hour for it to drain and people get impatient and start loading up wet kernels. So just let it steam.


Grab a spoon (it?ll be slimy and greasy and nasty) and start mixing it around or start tossing it around if you and your strainer can take the weight being tossed around. I mix it around letting it all steam off and mixing in the WBS and rye really well. It takes about 5-10 minutes to mix it all in well and all that time its straining and steaming getting rid of excess water. Try and keep it spread out as much as possible and don?t mix to quickly..mix then allow it to steam until it stops, then mix more..give it a chance to steam and drain.

Now after about 10 minutes of mixing and steaming to add in verm to make up the rest of the substrate. You only want to add about 1-2 (or 3 or 4 if you want) quarts of DRY verm. I don?t measure it, I just pour until the mix looks right. It should look kind of dry..but you don?t want a bunch of dry verm in there so pour and mix and add a little at a time..you can always add more but its hard to remove some. Once all mixed up (still steaming a bit and draining a bit):


You can load it into jars at this point and PC for at least 60 minutes at 15 PSI. I do 60 minutes but my PC is usually running about 17-18 PSI. Some people do 90 minutes though just to be sure. If you?re doing lots of this stuff, it would be beneficial to try 60 minutes on a batch and go with it if contams aren?t a problem, you?ll save yourself lots of time.

Jar lids are simple. Two small holes poked in the top. I just stab the tops of the jars with a Phillips head screwdriver. No need for huge swings, just get a pointy screw driver and drive it in quick, straight and firm. It does leave edges below the lid so if your concerned with that and want to take the time, you can pick up a punch set that will punch the holes or drill them. I never had a problem with edges since I just put the tyvek over the lid.


Going to walmart and finding the perfect spoon to fit into jars is a benefit (if you don?t already have one). I made sure it would fit regular mouthed jars too just because I bought my town out of wide mouth jars and so I have a number of regular mouthed quarts that I had to buy. You can see it in the picture with the steaming grain. Scoop and load the jars up with grain, leaving room to shake. The harder you think it is for you to shake things well, the more room you should leave yourself. I can shake the hell out of something so I load mine pretty close to the top, especially considering I usually do grain to grain transfers (adds a bit more to the jar, always take that into account if it applies to you). Then goes the lid with the two holes, a square piece of tyvek, the ring (band) and then screw on firm, but not to tight..it?ll help getting them off later if they aren?t tight when you PC them.


While the first run of jars is PCing you can continue loading up the jars for the next two runs. After you have PCed them for 60 minutes at 15 PSI (the 60 minutes only counts when the PC is at 15 PSI or over), turn off the stove and remove the PC from the burner. Don?t force cool it, just go sit and chill and smoke a bone or something. Once the pressure has dropped below 5 PSI you can open whatever valve you have and then open the PC..that usually takes about 30 minutes. Remove the jars and shake them up well USING MITS and tighten the band down (no need to prove how tight you can get it, just make sure its on good). They will look kind of slimey and a little wet, don?t worry about it unless you have standing water, which if you followed this, I don?t see how you could. Set the jars off to the side to cool till tomorrow. If you decide to force cool things at these steps, be warned that it may result in failure! Following directions exactly will get you more assured results. This doesn?t mean it doesn?t work, its just not good practices. In the long run doing huge runs like this, force cooling or not waiting long enough will hurt you more then help you.

Inoculate the next day. If you did everything right, the jars can be kept for weeks or months before use, though its best to use as quickly as possible. Then you incubate them until fully colonized and case them. You can fruit these as cakes (if made in ? pints or pints), but it doesn?t work SO hot.


NOTES
If you want to use straight WBS to fruit with, it will work fine. I suggest the 24 hour soak and strain the same way. After straining spread out well in the strainer, mix in verm until the kernels look dry-ish as described and shown above. You could also simmer it for about 10 minutes before straining and treat it as rye above.

If you are unsure of a contaminated syringe or if you get contaminations and you aren?t sure if it?s the way you make the jars, or something your doing after you PC them, keep a jar or few without putting anything in them. If its your jar preparation, these control jars will contaminate. If they don?t, then it was either your inoculation procedures, contaminated syringe (or whatever), or incubation practices (this is a rare one if the jars were made and sealed correctly during inoculation).

TYVEK is not a paper material. It is a plastic that will withstand the PC process. It will not allow contams to pass through it, but gases can. We use them to allow GAS exchange (not air exchange which is introducing fresh air during fruiting). Gas exchange is the release of excess gases that mycelium releases. No form of air flow is needed during incubation, other then these holes to be clear to allow gases to escape. Tyvek can be found free at your post office or here and they deliver for free too.

If you are just spawning to bulk, the process is much easier. I use straight WBS, soaked for 24 hours. Strain well and mix with verm if the outsides of the kernels still look a little wet. Then load into jars and PC as described above.

New note: I like to add a bit of worm castings..maybe 1-5%? Not much?but add it during the soak, don?t drain it off for the simmer (like normal in the tek), and then when you do finally drain it off, a lot of the castings and color gets into it. Speeds up colonization and adds nutes for fruiting directly off the grain. Any poo or poo water would help.

Some pictures of what rye can do:





--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Edited by scatmanrav (05/10/05 02:50 PM)


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Offlinemushroommark
Earning mybluethumb

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 359
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4024920 - 04/07/05 03:18 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Good shit!  Looks great scat...I was hoping you'd post this soon, it was an immense help for me. You've been busy as of late, keep it up :thumbup:

mark


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OfflineXTCollection
Stranger

Registered: 02/23/05
Posts: 340
Last seen: 17 years, 26 days
Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: mushroommark]
    #4025216 - 04/07/05 07:59 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

scat knows his shit... I wish he was mod, I think he has a lot to offer like road.


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Offlinethenewguy05
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: XTCollection]
    #4025241 - 04/07/05 08:09 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

thanx for the info bro!


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InvisibleRoadkillM
Retired Shroomery Mod
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Posts: 22,674
Loc: Montana
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: XTCollection]
    #4025281 - 04/07/05 08:23 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

XTCollection said:

scat knows his shit... I wish he was mod, I think he has a lot to offer like road.




Thanks XT!~
:smile:

---

I'd like to see Scat and Diver become Mods someday. :smile:
They are very helpful with helping others here in the Mush Cult.
And I think highly of both of them.

When an opening comes up...there will be a nomination thread posted here in the Mush Cult.
Members will nominate candidates and then the mods and admins will talk it over about who the new mods should be.
And then Admins will think it over and decide.

So keep an eye out for a nomination thread...and rock the vote!~

:smile:


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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InvisibleHolydiver
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: Roadkill]
    #4025422 - 04/07/05 08:50 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Roadkill said:
And I think highly of both of them.





Thanks, and likewise. :mushroom2: :laugh:

Nice writeup here.


--------------------
To find a place to live between the negatives and positives.


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OfflineUnderhillmaster
The LemonProphet

Registered: 02/09/05
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: Holydiver]
    #4026334 - 04/07/05 01:12 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

What do you see as the weakness of wbs for fruiting? Is it the lower nutritional value and poor water retention ability? Only reason I ask is that I can get wbs at a few locations locally, but rye will take a couple hour drive or order online.


--------------------
If you cut off my head, what would I say? Me and my head, or me and my body?


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InvisiblePawPaw
Picktish TexasStyle....

Registered: 12/20/04
Posts: 8,243
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4026659 - 04/07/05 02:16 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Nice pics Scat...Ill damn shure vote for you to be a mod :thumbup:


--------------------
Come to Paw Paws place there will be no sleeping tonight

Eric just wants to catch reds ..
Don?t look back, don?t look back
He?s right on your trail
Don?t look back, don?t look back
He?s just a step away from hell
WDYWFM?


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Offlinescatmanrav
Brainy Smurf

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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: PawPaw]
    #4030061 - 04/08/05 08:47 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I'll vote for Diver  :stoned: :grin: Thanks guys :smile:

WBS...I'm not really sure the problem honestly...I think a big one is water...WBS doesnt hold as much as rye. Rye soaked and simmered FULLY will expand to 3 times its size...WBS kernals start bursting by the time they expand to about double their size. Adding verm helps alot, especially adding moist sterile verm when you case (look up "rez effect", make up 1 quart of birdseed, then when you case, mix the quart with 1 quart of moist sterile verm, then add your casing layer). I was able to get decent fruits from the WBS. Still though, fruits were smaller then Rye and yeild was a bit less...so I think nutes play a role. However I think some WBS nutes do good too and the mix from above, has performed very well for me. Especially adding in a cup off worm poo into the mix on the soak and simmer.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlinetermanex
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Registered: 05/09/05
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4156118 - 05/10/05 02:30 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

what the hell is WSB?


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Offlinetermanex
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4156119 - 05/10/05 02:31 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

what is WSB?


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OfflineHippieChick
Chicks can do it too!
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: termanex]
    #4156143 - 05/10/05 02:45 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

It's WBS, and it's Wild Bird Seed.
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony.
:heart: Hippie Chick  :mushroom2:


--------------------
Peace,Love and Happiness
:heart: HC :mushroom2:

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............

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OfflineCLUTCH
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4156310 - 05/10/05 04:31 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

good job scatman.  :thumbup:

Looking forward to trying this on my next grow. :tongue:


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Offlinecoolman256
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: CLUTCH]
    #4156409 - 05/10/05 06:48 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Hey scatman, is the verm mainly to soak up any excess water that may be on/cook out of the grains?  Also, have you tried out popcorn as a grain substrate? I'm interested in knowing your opinion on it in comparison to rye/wbs, as I use popcorn exclusively and have had great success with it (although, adding verm to the grains before loading up the jars is intriguing, as ive had a jar or two of corn with a puddle of water at the bottom :frown:).  I find the volumetric expansion of popcorn when wet to be pretty significant, although i have never worked with rye so I don't know exactly how it compares.  I think next fall I will definitely try out adding some verm into the grains! def a +5.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: coolman256]
    #4157979 - 05/10/05 02:47 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

>is the verm mainly to soak up any excess water that may be on/cook out of the grains?

Correct. A big problem people seem to have when starting out is letting the grain drain properly. If you do it this way, not much has to drain off. Alot of the water steams off, while its draining, and the rest of the water is soaked up by the dry verm which can then be used later in the jars, instead of pooling up at the bottom of the jar causing colonization problems and bacterial risk. Its not needed, but I find it helps, especially those who are impatient. The verm I think also helps in the fruiting process, and if you like to dunk grain casings, colonized grain doesnt rehydrate well...so the verm would help it.

>have you tried out popcorn as a grain substrate?

I have not. I have not felt the need to. I know based on many many opinions that rye is better. I worked with rye and I absolutly dont think popcorn could be better. And I know it lacks certain things (B vitamins, triptophans) that rye does not. I've read a few thousand growlogs of cubies on grain alone, of all sorts of grain and every kind. The two most consistant have been rye and millet (main ingredient in WBS, wild bird seed). Not that I havnt seen popcorn flushes that are nice, but often they complain of potency if so. Eitherway, its hit or miss and WBS is much more stable (or millet if you can find straight millet) and cheap as all hell (get the cheap stuff as long as its mostly millet and milo). Give rye a try...it swells to three times its sized when fully hydrated, giving it way better water potential over other grains.

All that aside though. You want to really get serious, spawn WBS (or whatever, popcorn, rye, anything) to horse poo. Then you get some POTENT MOFUCKING mushrooms.



I also just added some rye pictures to the top post at the bottom, so you can see some of what rye can do.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Edited by scatmanrav (05/10/05 03:04 PM)


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Offlinedrugsaregood
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4158484 - 05/10/05 05:10 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I like the top right picture in the big group. A little spare tire on Scatman in boxer shorts... SEXY!!


--------------------
For "incoherent dribble" (drivel) try www.dictionary.com

Everybody seems to think I'm lazy
I don't mind, I think they're crazy
Running everywhere at such a speed
Till they find there's no need


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Invisibleralphster44
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: Holydiver]
    #4158490 - 05/10/05 05:12 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Me too!!!


--------------------
www.RalphstersSpores.com

WE SHIP TO CANADA FROM WITHIN CANADA :smile:

For your safety and security, we have a Secure Website.
Also for your security, we will not take your credit card number.
Your security and safety is of utmost importance to us.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: drugsaregood]
    #4158592 - 05/10/05 05:35 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

drugsaregood said:
I like the top right picture in the big group.  A little spare tire on Scatman in boxer shorts...  SEXY!!




Thats my crazy russian roommate :smile: He sits around like that all the time, even with company over  :crazy:


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineUnderhillmaster
The LemonProphet

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 414
Loc: Parts Unknown
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4158639 - 05/10/05 05:48 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

By your original post you made it sound like you use your jar sized spoon to spoon your mix into your jar. Do you have a canning funnel? hehe, It's the best $2 you can ever spend if you do a lot of jars. You have helped me so much Scat with your knowledge, thought I might be able to give you a tip lol. I freaking love my sink sized strainer I made thanks to your idea. It strains so evenly and I can do over 5 lbs. of WBS dry per run now.


--------------------
If you cut off my head, what would I say? Me and my head, or me and my body?


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Offlinescatmanrav
Brainy Smurf

Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: Underhillmaster]
    #4158686 - 05/10/05 05:59 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I've seen those, but I just dont see it really saving me time. Using the black spoon here:


^^Thats about 12-15 dry pounds (20-30 wet) of Rye/WBS straining at a time BTW^^

It fits into widemouth, and regular mouth jars easy. I spoon 6 or so spoonfuls real quick into a jar, and each jar only takes 5-10 seconds (probably closer to 5) to fill using the spoon. Even with a funnel, I'd still have to spoon it into the funnel and let it fall through. Like on the video clips pinned to the top of the forum (the crazy guy with the sunglasses), he uses one of them and spends more time tapping the funnel to get the grain through then it takes me to fill a jar. Thanks for the suggestion though :smile: It is a good one for some people, I just happened upon this which works for me :smile:


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Edited by scatmanrav (05/10/05 06:22 PM)


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InvisibleMrMaddHatter
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4158737 - 05/10/05 06:11 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Nice write-up. Love the pics. :thumbup: :thumbup:

:cool:


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Offlinedrugsaregood
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: MrMaddHatter]
    #4158900 - 05/10/05 06:52 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I have a good question for someone... say I had 6 pint jars of rye colonized. As I've never tried casing before, would I be better off to split that into 6 small containers instead of 1-2 larger ones??


--------------------
For "incoherent dribble" (drivel) try www.dictionary.com

Everybody seems to think I'm lazy
I don't mind, I think they're crazy
Running everywhere at such a speed
Till they find there's no need


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Invisibleagar
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: drugsaregood]
    #4158914 - 05/10/05 06:57 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Try 3 containers. Bigger subs, get you bigger shrooms.


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Offlinedrugsaregood
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: agar]
    #4158923 - 05/10/05 06:59 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I knew that thicker is better for substrate, but I thought the chances of success might be better if they were separate. This is a first attempt so I'm skeptical.


Edited by drugsaregood (05/10/05 07:00 PM)


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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: drugsaregood]
    #4158937 - 05/10/05 07:02 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

In reality, spawn to bulk will do far better than rye as a sub.

As in 10X


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Offlinedrugsaregood
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: agar]
    #4158962 - 05/10/05 07:10 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

baby steps here


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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: drugsaregood]
    #4159127 - 05/10/05 07:42 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Your PVC ring over your stainless steel sink reminded me of something I discovered years ago. Many older porcelain kitchen sinks are sized just right so an oven rack fits perfectly in them, catching on the top lip just right. In these sinks if you place the oven rack over it and then get some screen material ($4 at Walmart for a big roll), cut it to size, and place the screen over the oven rack, you have a huge colander without messing with a PVC ring! It works really well if you have that kind of sink.


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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: agar]
    #4159157 - 05/10/05 07:47 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

agar said:

As in 10X




Lol  :smirk:

I second that!

-Gnostic


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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4159605 - 05/10/05 09:26 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Blue Helix said:
Your PVC ring over your stainless steel sink reminded me of something I discovered years ago.  Many older porcelain kitchen sinks are sized just  right so an oven rack fits perfectly in them, catching on the top lip just right.  In these sinks if you place the oven rack over it and then get some screen material ($4 at Walmart for a big roll), cut it to size,  and place the screen over the oven rack, you have a huge colander without messing with a PVC ring!  It works really well if you have that kind of sink.




This doesnt allow it to sink in. The rye straining on the screen, is about 4-5 inches deep, sagging to almost touch the drain in the bottom of the sink. Holds more at a time then a flat strainer. But for those doing less, a flat strainer is quicker and your suggestion would work out well :smile:

Once cakes, or spawn, is colonized, your chances of success are pretty much just as good with 2, 3 or 6 casings. Either all of it will be done right, or it will be done wrong. Its tough to lose a poo casing to contams when you spawn it, let alone 3. If you did 6, that would only be 1 cake as spawn, which isnt very much (enough to mix with 1 quart of poo). I'd go with agars suggestion and make 3 casings and use two cakes in each, with 2-3 quarts of pasteurized horse poo per casing.


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Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4159614 - 05/10/05 09:31 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, I agree. I was draining only 16 pounds wet, and the flat oven rack strainer was maxed out. Having a nice dip in the middle would be good to add another 20 pounds or so and would make it easier to drain it better.


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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4159905 - 05/10/05 10:52 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

actually popcorn and rye both have b-6 and lack in b-12, Rye does have a much higher tryptophan content than popcorn though. According to information I've seen, though, tryptamine HCl rich substrates increase the psilocin content (and reduce the psilocybin content)... But the difference we're talking about here is in tryptophan, which people have experimented with and have had mixed results, as a forum search of tryptophan will reveal. IMO popcorn mushies will knock your socks off just like any other grain. Only subjective side by side comparison can really say, so I guess ill try both out sometime and post my results about it then. And even then... I really think it'd take some mondo expensive lab equipment (mass spectrometer perhaps?) to say what grows more potent shrooms.

Info for the food content found here
search for "rye" and for "corn grain" and select 100g serving to see for yourself. Maybe someone else knows better, and maybe tryptophan does have something to do with potency, i dunno.. but popcorn works, flushes well, and I don't see why so many people knock what is probably the easiest and cheapest grain to obtain.


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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: coolman256]
    #4160468 - 05/11/05 01:31 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

>but popcorn works, flushes well, and I don't see why so many people knock what is probably the easiest and cheapest grain to obtain.

Look man...say what you want...I've read just about every post thats come along in this, advanced, and grow log forums in the last year. Probably 90% of them. I've seen alot of popcorn grows, millet grows, WBS grows, rye grows, a tons of other things, or any mixture of them. Popcorn has worked out quite well for some others:



But there are probably half who report multiple failures with it. Then they switch to another grain, WBS or rye usually, and have much better results. Whatever problems they were having could very well be their fault, in not preping it properly. Thats not the point. The point is, when people start of with rye or WBS, theirs more like a 25% failure rate for people. Generally switching to the other that they werent using solves this. I have only heard of 1 case where someone tried WBS and rye and failed, then tried popcorn and succeeded. Statistics are against popcorn. That doesnt mean it cant work! Thats just why we dont suggest it first off. It generally causes fewer people to come back and go "hey whyd you tell me to use this crap".

And cheapest? Around here WBS is 40 pounds for 10 bucks. I think popcorn is more like 50 cents a pound. Rye is 50 cents a pound as well...

You can use whatever grain you please for this though...the point is just one way you can do grain, its not a rye/wbs is better argument. Thats just what I prefer to use. It's preformed quite well for me fruited straight off the grains. Its also preformed excellently as spawn.


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Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4160522 - 05/11/05 01:49 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I've read a lot of Scatman's post, and posts of which he's talking about, i'm with em on the rye....

Popcorn works...But Rye Owns...

:thumbup:


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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #4160924 - 05/11/05 07:44 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

popcorn is difficult to master getting the moisture content down, but if you read the original popcorn thread (which is very very long and the process progresses as the thread goes on (and on and on and on and on))
Popcorn is 50 cents a pound if you buy 2 lb bags.  You're unfairly comparing it to other grains bought in bulk.  I once purchased 50lb of popcorn for 6$. I don't soak my popcorn.  Load it up and PC for 45 minutes, take it out, strain for 30, load it up again, and PC for another 60-90 minutes (I like 75).  A good soak wouldn't hurt though...  Like I said moisture content is a bitch but I think popcorn is a grain that is unfairly knocked.  You can't account for statistical anomolies such as begginers more likely trying popcorn because it's the easiest to obtain (thus giving a higher failure rate).  Statistics are statistics, they don't lie but the truth is often hidden within them. I'm done with this thread though, it's really a moot point, just can't have people saying that "popcorn doesn't work as well" cause that's BS. I'm sure you'd fight me to the death on this one though scat  :tongue2:


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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: coolman256]
    #4494544 - 08/04/05 11:04 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

*bump* fucking great work, scatman!


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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: HB]
    #4494581 - 08/04/05 11:11 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

TY, I wish you and I could trade some of our great work, I'd love to be able to do the great work you do..green thumb doesnt come natural to me though and its tough trying to learn it all...its much more in depth and complicated then getting good mushrooms.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineFungi_x
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: Underhillmaster]
    #4495165 - 08/04/05 12:59 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Underhillmaster said:
Do you have a canning funnel? hehe,  It's the best $2 you can ever spend if you do a lot of jars.




I agree :thumbup: You really won't have to wait for the grain to fall in as the whole is almost as wide as the jar mouth. You will be able to use a bigger spoon and be less careful when loading. just hold the little handle and sorta keep it shaking gently and all the grain will fall into the jar. I bet you could load jars over twice as fast :wink:



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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: Fungi_x]
    #4495209 - 08/04/05 01:07 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

You can get big soda bottles or fabric conditioner etc. with handles that will do the same job


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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: blackout]
    #4495893 - 08/04/05 04:09 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I'm sure it would work fine, but do you know how much crap I have around this little aparment? LOL I've got more rubbermaids and tubberware then all your grandmothers put together..I dont need another thing just to make loading jars a 3 minute job instead of 6 LOL. Someday I'll bother with one, but I'm so sick of clutter (we wont even talk about heaters and bubblewands and lights and humidifiers that are all usless laying around).


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4495929 - 08/04/05 04:21 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Hehe my wife says the same thing, I have 3 closests full of culivation supplies such as any type of uncommon grain I find, humidifiers, all stored in tubs, not to mention jar storage and washing. Shes allways bitchen Lol.


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Edited by djsage420 (08/04/05 04:22 PM)


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OfflineTheLightIsOn
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4602643 - 08/31/05 06:37 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Is the rye the same thing as Organic Rye Grass Seed?

-PEACE


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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: TheLightIsOn]
    #4602795 - 08/31/05 08:17 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

TheLightIsOn said:
Is the rye the same thing as Organic Rye Grass Seed?

-PEACE



No. they are talking about rye grain/kernels/berries.
RG seed is expensive, doesnt hold moisture well but is suited to hard to grow strains.


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OfflineTheLightIsOn
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: blackout]
    #4602910 - 08/31/05 09:04 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

oh gocha

-peace


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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #5087642 - 12/20/05 10:18 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

scatmanrav said:
>but popcorn works, flushes well, and I don't see why so many people knock what is probably the easiest and cheapest grain to obtain.

Look man...say what you want...I've read just about every post thats come along in this, advanced, and grow log forums in the last year. Probably 90% of them. I've seen alot of popcorn grows, millet grows, WBS grows, rye grows, a tons of other things, or any mixture of them. Popcorn has worked out quite well for some others:



But there are probably half who report multiple failures with it. Then they switch to another grain, WBS or rye usually, and have much better results. Whatever problems they were having could very well be their fault, in not preping it properly. Thats not the point. The point is, when people start of with rye or WBS, theirs more like a 25% failure rate for people. Generally switching to the other that they werent using solves this. I have only heard of 1 case where someone tried WBS and rye and failed, then tried popcorn and succeeded. Statistics are against popcorn. That doesnt mean it cant work! Thats just why we dont suggest it first off. It generally causes fewer people to come back and go "hey whyd you tell me to use this crap".

And cheapest? Around here WBS is 40 pounds for 10 bucks. I think popcorn is more like 50 cents a pound. Rye is 50 cents a pound as well...

You can use whatever grain you please for this though...the point is just one way you can do grain, its not a rye/wbs is better argument. Thats just what I prefer to use. It's preformed quite well for me fruited straight off the grains. Its also preformed excellently as spawn.




i am a begginer who has tried a few experiments so far each ennding up with there own problems but i finally got a pressure cooker and i put ten jars through 6 of them rye and 4 popcorn. of the ten 5 of the rye were contaminated and only 1 of the popcorn. also i noticed that the popcorn colonized considerably faster than the rye. so i think popcorn is more contam resistant and faster colonization. i also find it pretty easy to get the right moisture through overnite soak then simmer. it just goes to show u everyones different. if ur really serious about this as a hobby ur gunna get it right eventually


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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #5087800 - 12/20/05 10:50 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Nice pictorial!  :thumbup:


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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: Tippinthru]
    #5087811 - 12/20/05 10:53 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

myconaught..........you get the necromancy of the day award :headbanger:


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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: Snaggletooth]
    #5087840 - 12/20/05 10:59 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

This is actually a thread thats ok to bring up from the dead!! 

Myconaught- Glad to hear you've had success with popcorn, many dont, in fact out of all of the grains popcorn is the toughest to work with.  I personally think you can't get any easier then WBS, 1/2 hr simmer, 1hr1/2 in the pc, overnight cool, and you're set!  Keep up the good work tho man, drop by with some pictures in the future :smile:


--------------------
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: coda]
    #5087937 - 12/20/05 11:25 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

but... popcorn does not fruit as well. actually, i have not tried and have not seen any pictures of anyone fruiting popcorn? by itself....

it's used for spawn, but does anyone have or seen any pics of just fruiting it?


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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: Oatman2000]
    #5087974 - 12/20/05 11:34 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Well....yah, that's kind of what i was getting at with the "popcorn is the hardest grain to work with" comment. :smile:  Popcorn is just a bitch to work with, but, if you can get it to work consistently go for it i say.  Whatever floats your boat and puts mushrooms in your hands! :smile:


--------------------
To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . .

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Offlinekingofthemtn151
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: coda]
    #5094238 - 12/22/05 02:50 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

so where shall one obtain Rye, grocery store? health food?


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Offlinecoda
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: kingofthemtn151]
    #5094278 - 12/22/05 03:00 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

health food stores carry rye grains but will most likely charge you out the ass for it. Anytime you see the word organic in front of a food product you know its gonna cost you. Go to a feed store, they have bulk grains for relatively cheap. You can get 20-50 lb bags for 20-40 dollars.


--------------------
To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . .

-JG

i really am glad you came back to us instead of taking the other path. *hug*

-A_S (RIP your final words to me will never be forgotten)



Don't fuck with the laughing jesus.


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Anonymous

Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: coda]
    #5094492 - 12/22/05 03:50 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah. At a health food store, your going to pay alot for just a little. Feed stores and such should be okay.

Damn this got brought up from a while ago. Where is scat anyways? Haven't seen any posts from him....:sad:


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Offlinein_laymans_terms
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: Anonymous]
    #5094516 - 12/22/05 03:59 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

i like to mix popcorn and rye/birdseed jars when i case. it fruits amazingly. i think by having two seperate substrates mixed u get the best nutrient base. i put down a layer of wet vermiculite, 1 colonized jar of 2 parts rye one part birdseed(or just rye) and then a jar of popcorn on top of that. cover with another layer of verm and ur good to go. this is all done in cake pans in a perlite chamber and the jars are quart size. Id post pictures if i could but i got no camera. maybe ill get lucky and get one for chrismas. cheers everyone


Edited by myconaught (12/22/05 04:01 PM)


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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: in_laymans_terms]
    #5094551 - 12/22/05 04:08 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

i get organic rye from the health food store for like 80cents per pound. that meets or beats coda's figure for the feed store. so theres no rule that the health store is going to rape you on rye like they do with all of their other products. check the feed store and the health store and then see which is cheaper and which is more convenient.

still, it doesnt look as weird getting 30lbs of rye from a feed store, but the health food people always look at me weird when i empty the rye bin.


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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: kilgore_trout]
    #5094702 - 12/22/05 04:54 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

.80 cents a pound is insanely too much! Good grief! lol! Damn! You can hit up a feed store for a 50lb. bag in the $12 range...


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OfflineShroomArtist84
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: Hotnuts]
    #5095085 - 12/22/05 06:32 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

GREAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT write up, i will try soon enough :wink:


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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: ShroomArtist84]
    #5161203 - 01/10/06 01:03 AM (18 years, 22 days ago)

i pay $11.50 for 20 pounds of Rye Berries. Special ordered from my local health food store.


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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: TheStudent]
    #5161302 - 01/10/06 01:41 AM (18 years, 22 days ago)

At my local market they have lots of bulk food items in big containers. I bought 5 pounds of rye for 3 bucks or so. I think it was 74 cents a pound. Look around for bulk food suppliers.


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Offlinemogur
regnartS

Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 322
Loc: Puget Sound
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: Hotnuts]
    #5161907 - 01/10/06 09:16 AM (18 years, 21 days ago)

People never cease to amaze me, hotnutz.  :crazy2:


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OfflineOatman2000
-=Outa Space=-
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Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2,877
Loc: Planetary Nebula
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: mogur]
    #5162091 - 01/10/06 10:27 AM (18 years, 21 days ago)

old thread, but when i buy rye berries from the health food store, they all contam.

seems liek they have some sort of chemical, or have been sprayed or something... even soaking/washing doesn't work.

I stick to WBS.  it works for me!

(PS. i love the eggcrate pic scat! but there is NO WAY that hammer pic is real! i've noticed that i can't see the end of the hammer.... makes a great pic anyway! you got awesome fruits! )

(Pss. Scat please come back! haven't seen ya in a while! :frown:


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Spawning to COIR
:thumbup:  My Chocolate Recipe
WBS QUART SPAWN JAR PREPERATION
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4-PO-DMT; 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethltryptamine


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OfflineDr_Demented
Shape Shifter

Registered: 10/23/04
Posts: 144
Loc: At the other end
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: Oatman2000]
    #5162635 - 01/10/06 01:01 PM (18 years, 21 days ago)

I tried popcorn as an substrate alone. Soaked 24h, then simmered till some popcorns cracked open. let them dry off and the PC for an hour or so. cased with 50/50 layer.

then i had to go away during Christmas and new years so it were left unattended for 2 weeks with no FAE and no misting.

as you can see they all were over matured and no even pinning. the ones who didn't grow tall aborted halfway. mainly because of no FAE and lack of moisture.
underneath the casing layer, hundreds of primordia had developed.

I will try again with popcorn and hopefully I will be around to check the progress...

/Dr.


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-It all makes sence if you think about it for a while.

All you need to success in growing!


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Offlinegkbellend
student
Male
Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 28
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: mushroommark]
    #11229352 - 10/11/09 08:36 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Hello...first timer here the grain method i would use is the one in this video. It's around 45-55 minutes into it...hopefully you have seen it already....but if you didn't maybe you have the time to.
 
Anyway i was just wondering would i get good yields from this method?

here's the video....
#


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GKbellend


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Invisiblefeelfunny
I am you
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Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 8,747
Loc: South
Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: gkbellend]
    #11229366 - 10/11/09 08:38 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

http://www.mushroomvideos.com/

you need to stick with this, it what most here started with


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IF A CAT AND DOG CAN GET ALONG WHY CANT EVERYONE ELSE?
If the sky is falling, don't look up!  :abduction:

Feel Family Founder. :pm: me if you are tired of hearing, "Use the search function".


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Offlinegkbellend
student
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Registered: 10/11/09
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Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #11229399 - 10/11/09 08:44 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Hello beginner here....i read your thread on grain, the method i would use is in this video...it's about 45-55 minutes into it...just wondering if i would get good yields off of it...if you have time thanx



#


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GKbellend


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Invisiblefeelfunny
I am you
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Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 8,747
Loc: South
Re: How scatman does grain. [Re: feelfunny]
    #11229433 - 10/11/09 08:49 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

feelfunny said:
http://www.mushroomvideos.com/

you need to stick with this, it what most here started with




--------------------
IF A CAT AND DOG CAN GET ALONG WHY CANT EVERYONE ELSE?
If the sky is falling, don't look up!  :abduction:

Feel Family Founder. :pm: me if you are tired of hearing, "Use the search function".


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