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OfflineTrippinNinjaBuddha
ShroominSamurai
Registered: 04/11/04
Posts: 279
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Who is the winner?
    #4022849 - 04/06/05 08:32 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

My mom, when she and I were discussing my drug use in high school, would often say to me, 'I just hope you don't end up as one of those people who does drugs all the time and never does anything else with their lives.'

Well, that didn't happen. BUT I was thinking about this the other night.

Say we have two men. One man is working his way up the corporate chain, making more and more money per year, big house, hot wife, etc. He is a normal guy, not depressed all the time, but not happy all the time. He is never content with what he has, always desiring more, better things. The other man works at Quik-E-mart, lives in an apartment by himself and smokes pot all the time, as well as using many other drugs. He is totally content in his life.

Who is the winner of the game of Life?


--------------------
Jumped in a river, what did I see?
Black eyed angels swimming with me
Moon full of stars and astral cars, all the figures I used to see
All my lovers were there with me
All my past and all my futures
We went to heaven in a little rowboat
There was nothing to fear and nothing to doubt


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Who is the winner? [Re: TrippinNinjaBuddha]
    #4022878 - 04/06/05 08:39 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Easy, contentment


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
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Re: Who is the winner? [Re: TrippinNinjaBuddha]
    #4022898 - 04/06/05 08:42 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Both win, if that is what they are looking for....  I would pick the life of the "Qwik-E-Mart" for myself....  :smile:  :heart:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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Offlinefreddurgan
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Re: Who is the winner? [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4023248 - 04/06/05 09:40 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah I'd pick the Qwik-E-Mart one myself as long as I could add

a.) a wife
b.) enough income from the Qwik-E-Mart to afford teh p0t

Cause I mean..yeah if I had a wife and I was content with my life that would be great, but I'm sure I'd have high hours, and probably not a lot of leisure time.

I'm not a buddha. I can't sit in a dark room sober for 20 years and be cool with it. I need my spending money


--------------------
Ishmael
http://www.ishmael.org

Ron Paul 2008!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Who is the winner? [Re: TrippinNinjaBuddha]
    #4023461 - 04/06/05 10:37 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

"The other man works at Quik-E-mart, lives in an apartment by himself and smokes pot all the time, as well as using many other drugs. He is totally content in his life."

That never happens. The Quick-E-Mart guy doesn't even make enough money to live...let alone support his habit. So, he either starts to deal a little on the side, gets mixed up with the wrong crowd and ends up getting capped or jailed...or he stays at the mart and realizes that he can never have a real life or a lasting relationship due to the fact that he can't afford one and his potential girlfriends don't want to end up in living in his parents basement, gets terminally depressed and ends his own suffering.
It is possible to make a good living without selling out...do what you love people, and be damn good at it...the opportunities will open up. Being stoned and lazy all of the time leads to unhappiness. Listen to your Mom on this one.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
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Re: Who is the winner? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4023540 - 04/06/05 10:56 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
"The other man works at Quik-E-mart, lives in an apartment by himself and smokes pot all the time, as well as using many other drugs. He is totally content in his life."
.
That never happens. The Quick-E-Mart guy doesn't even make enough money to live...let alone support his habit. So, he either starts to deal a little on the side, gets mixed up with the wrong crowd and ends up getting capped or jailed...or he stays at the mart and realizes that he can never have a real life or a lasting relationship due to the fact that he can't afford one and his potential girlfriends don't want to end up in living in his parents basement, gets terminally depressed and ends his own suffering.
It is possible to make a good living without selling out...do what you love people, and be damn good at it...the opportunities will open up. Being stoned and lazy all of the time leads to unhappiness. Listen to your Mom on this one.



.
WoW, can we say "assumptions".....!    :tongue:  :heart:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Who is the winner? [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4023581 - 04/06/05 11:10 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I know several of the "Quick-E-Mart" guys...and I used to be one. It was unfullfilling. I was decided to go to college and get a life. I assume very little here.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
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Re: Who is the winner? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4023647 - 04/06/05 11:27 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

List of your presented assumptions (as I see them)....
.
1)  That never happens.
.
2+3)  The Quick-E-Mart guy doesn't even make enough money to live...let alone support his habit.
.
4)  So, he either starts to deal a little on the side,
.
5)  gets mixed up with the wrong crowd
.
6+6.5)  and ends up getting capped or jailed...
.
7+7.5)  or he stays at the mart and realizes that he can never have a real life
.
8)  or a lasting relationship
.
9)  due to the fact that he can't afford one
.
10)  and his potential girlfriends don't want to end up in living in his parents basement,
.
11+11.5)  gets terminally depressed and ends his own suffering.
.
12)  Being stoned and lazy all of the time leads to unhappiness.
.
13)  Listen to your Mom on this one.
.
I know several of the "Quick-E-Mart" guys...and I used to be one. It was unfullfilling. I was decided to go to college and get a life. I assume very little here.
.
So, can I assume that what is right for you is right for everyone....?  And can I assume that all mom's are always "right"....?    :wink:  :heart: 
.
.
.
.
I lived going to tech school with 2 other roomates by working at a low paying "high class" resteraunt making a low wage for 2.5 years....  I was happy, smoked every single night, worked out 3 times a week, got ALL "A's", and had perfect attendance....  And that is not an assumption....  I lived, I smoked, I was motivated, I was dirt poor, and I was happy....  This was all a "stepping stone" to my future....  It doesn't matter the situation, being a "winner" or "happy" is a state in the mind....  :sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Who is the winner? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4023654 - 04/06/05 11:29 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I went by what she posted. She said he was "totally content with his life". That seems better than the other guy who was only happy part of the time. :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Who is the winner? [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4023789 - 04/06/05 11:57 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

"I lived going to tech school with 2 other roomates by working at a low paying "high class" resteraunt making a low wage for 2.5 years.... I was happy, smoked every single night, worked out 3 times a week, got ALL "A's", and had perfect attendance.... And that is not an assumption.... I lived, I smoked, I was motivated, I was dirt poor, and I was happy.... This was all a "stepping stone" to my future.... It doesn't matter the situation, being a "winner" or "happy" is a state in the mind.... "


So you do NOT work a minimum wage job and only did it while in college. This was not a permanent way of life for you. You were on the road to improving yourself in school...you obviously weren't laying up stoned all of the time. I supported (or tried to) a wife and 3 kids at one point on minimum wage ($3.50 hour) for about 5 years...I was not happy, and had I not bettered myself the wife would have left. My assumptions stand as I have truly been there...not just part time as a spoiled student. I know what poverty is because I truly experienced it...so quit romantasizing it...it is not fun.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


Edited by Huehuecoyotl (04/07/05 12:05 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Who is the winner? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4023809 - 04/07/05 12:02 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

:heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Who is the winner? [Re: TrippinNinjaBuddha]
    #4023873 - 04/07/05 12:15 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

The man who is content with his life will be better to himself than the man that is miserable, but the man that is miserable but contributes scientific/ aristic contributions to the world is viewed by society as better than the content man who just works at Kwik-E-Mart and gets high.

He should grow his own also, that way there's no debate about whether he can afford his "habit." Grow your own for personal use and it's much cheaper than the black market.

In the end, though, you cannot let society tell you who is a better person, it is up to the individual to judge his own life, and the individual who is content with the life he is living is the one with a better life, even if he gets less money and less materialistic possessions.

Notice most of the prophets did not have money, good jobs, prestigious positions at corporations, etc. Jesus was a simple carpenter, and Buddha? He was homeless, penniless and yet, according to legend, more content than any king or high priest that walked by him with disdain. The winner is not determined by what is outside of him, for that can be taken away in his lifetime and leave him with nothing but misery. Those who have peace inside them can be granted anything and have it taken away, and always have that inner contention and peace with the world.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
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Registered: 02/28/05
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Re: Who is the winner? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4023958 - 04/07/05 12:29 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
So you do NOT work a minimum wage job and only did it while in college. This was not a permanent way of life for you. You were on the road to improving yourself in school...you obviously weren't laying up stoned all of the time. I supported (or tried to) a wife and 3 kids at one point on minimum wage ($3.50 hour) for about 5 years...I was not happy, and had I not bettered myself the wife would have left. My assumptions stand as I have truly been there...not just part time as a spoiled student. I know what poverty is because I truly experienced it...so quit romantasizing it...it is not fun.



.
I only had myself to support....  It was permanent at the time, as I did not know what the future would hold....  And, I got stoned in what I considered a responsible manner, for me....  Call me a romatisizing spoiled student all you would like....!  I have no "job" now....  Either way, I was happy then, and I am happy now, and I am having the time of my life, just as I did back then - LIVING....  :shrug:  Sorry you had such a rough time in your life trying to support your family....    I truly am glad you found a way to be happy - but your happiness is not everyone's means to happiness....    :heart:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Who is the winner? [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4024154 - 04/07/05 01:16 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Abraham Maslow, the father of the Humanist school of psychology, had a criteria for self actualisation. He proposed that before any spiritual or self realizing goal could be met one had to first secure thier material survival, then secure their physical security, social acceptance, and self esteem. I think that this is a good model. Without money one cannot even acheive their survival needs of food, shelter, and water. If one has to struggle to meet these needs one cannot progress towards self actualization. I realize that my happiness is not everyone's happiness, but you oversimplify grossly with that statement. If one cannot meet basic needs one cannot be happy...fact. Minimum wage barely allows this. I don't want your pity for my hard times...you can keep it...that is just patronizing to even say that to me. I am proud of what I have accomplished in my life. I cherish the hard times as learning experiences in order to more carefully plan my future. The myth of the non-materialistic hippy living off of God's love leads many young people down the wrong path. An adult who promotes (but does not practice) it is performing an a disservice to others.
Note: I am not being jaded, just realistic.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


Edited by Huehuecoyotl (04/07/05 01:23 AM)


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Invisiblefearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
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Re: Who is the winner? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4024321 - 04/07/05 02:00 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

right now im in college. i work around 17-20 hours a week and can support all my own utilities, gas, rent, food and drugs. I am more or less content. I don't really feel the need to have more money. despite the learning factor (which i love to learn) i don't see the need for college unless you really want lots of money, and even then, college isn't a sure thing for getting you money.

i really do look forward to it being over with though.

i could see myself living on the drag with all the bums. most people would consider that a failed or wasted life, but if you are happy and don't want anything else, then whats wrong? It would be a really interesting life no doubt.

if theres one thing i don't want my life to be, is predictable. I don't want to know what i'm going to do tommorow, or have a daily schedule, or a palm pocket.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Who is the winner? [Re: fearfect]
    #4024438 - 04/07/05 02:33 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

You don't need college to get a job, of course, you need college to get the job you enjoy and find rewarding. I admit that one should do what makes them happy. If you develop a skill set because you love it, then the money will follow. It is foolish to get all that education just to hop onto the treadmill at random. Choose your place in life by deciding where your talents and competance lie, and then exploiting that. A job you hate is nothing more than a grind...a job you enjoy is easy...like play. Don't think being a bum is an easy, enjoyable life. Most of those guys got hard luck stories you don't even want to know about. Just my opinion.

"All paths are the same: they lead nowhere. However, a path without a heart is never enjoyable. On the other hand, a path with heart is easy?it does not make a warrior work at liking it; it makes for a joyful journey; as long as a man follows it, he is one with it."
C.C.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisiblefearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
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Re: Who is the winner? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4024497 - 04/07/05 02:44 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I know you don't need college to get a job; and the fact of the matter is, i don't necessarily want a job or loads of money... i don't want "things". I'd rather experience life outside of the 9-5 schedule. I would like to explore my creative side more..

I don't think of a bum life as being easy either; i think of it as being a huge fucking shock; something totally different then i've ever experienced before, which would be very insightful regardless of the pleasures or displeasures it brings.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Who is the winner? [Re: fearfect]
    #4024510 - 04/07/05 02:48 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Well, I guess if you brush up on some wilderness survival skills you could live in the woods. Otherwise you need money. If someone is not earning their own money then they are getting it from someone else...who does work. There is no alternative. That is reality. I acheive personal freedom by choosing my path...not allowing others to choose it for me. In any case if you don't care about success in life why are you in college? You seem to be wasting your time.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
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Re: Who is the winner? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4024887 - 04/07/05 04:54 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
1)  Abraham Maslow, the father of the Humanist school of psychology, had a criteria for self actualisation. He proposed that before any spiritual or self realizing goal could be met one had to first secure thier material survival, then secure their physical security, social acceptance, and self esteem. I think that this is a good model. 2)  Without money one cannot even acheive their survival needs of food, shelter, and water.  If one has to struggle to meet these needs one cannot progress towards self actualization. I realize that my happiness is not everyone's happiness, but 3)  you oversimplify grossly with that statement. If one cannot meet basic needs one cannot be happy...fact. Minimum wage barely allows this. 4)  I don't want your pity for my hard times...you can keep it...that is just patronizing to even say that to me. I am proud of what I have accomplished in my life. I cherish the hard times as learning experiences in order to more carefully plan my future. The myth of the non-materialistic hippy living off of God's love leads many young people down the wrong path. An adult who promotes (but does not practice) it is performing an a disservice to others.
Note: I am not being jaded, just realistic.



.
.
1)  By Abraham Maslow's model, how would a person in a wheelchair fit into this....?  What is "material survival"....?  Who is ever physically "secure"...?    And who in the world has 100% "social acceptance"....?    The only thing I see to be of relevence in his "proposed model" is the self esteem item....  But, this is just my opinion of how I see things and how they work for me - sharing my thoughts, not demeaning the way in which you have found to work for you....  It just doesn't have to be like that for everyone, that is all I was saying....
.
.
2)  So, how did/do the Indians do it....?    As I understand, they didn't have money, nor any material posessions that were really "worth" anything, and they were very spiritual as a people....?    Perhaps the one posession they had was the knowledge of how to live off the land, but that is not really a posession I don't think....?    Spiritaul survival does not mean you have to have anything but the "knowledge" of how to be spiritual....  In my humble opinion....
.
.
3)  I stand corrected....?
.
.
4)  You don't want me to have a sympathetic understanding to what you consider to be a tough time in your life that you have openly shared here....?  I was not at all meaning to offend, sorry you took it that way....  :smirk:  :tongue:    Perhaps my sympathy towards your suffering was freely given, from me, from my heart....  If you don't want my understanding to your problems, you are fully capable of not accepting any of my words in my understanding to your problems/challenges, as you did regect my thoughts in a seemingly offensively regecting manner....?  Which would also indicate that I may not have social acceptance, to which I may not possibly have "self actualisation"....?  :heart:
.
.
.
You don't think I have gone thru my own trials in life....?  :shrug:    To be honest, my trials were of a different nature - almost the opposite of yours....  Mine were of physical pain due to an injury(s), low self esteem, (I never found value in "social acceptance" because I never really had it), and thru honestly EARNING the money I needed to buy the material "things" I thought would make me "happy", with working my job....    Then I got to a point where I had everything I could want to buy, and I wasn't any happier than what I was when I started, and still in much physical pain....  Then, thru MUCH soul searching, I finally realized the material "stuff" I have collected is WORTHLESS in finding true "happiness", and now I am happy....  And in the wake of my happiness, my physical pain is becoming less of an overpowering/overwhelming distraction in my life.... 
.
.
Everyone has their own ways of finding what they call happiness.... 
That is my whole point to everything I have written here.... 
Take it or leave it, these are my thoughts....  :heart:
.
Huehue, you can call me a "spoiled romantisizing hippy" all you want, I feel that I have ALWAYS worked hard for what I "have" physicaly and spiritualy....  And your descriptive "tag" words towards me are never gonna~ change a thing about that....  Fire away, no offense will be taken....!  :grin:  :shrug:
.
Much LOVE to YOU and YOURS, from ME, for FREE....    :heartpump:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Who is the winner? [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4024989 - 04/07/05 07:01 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I don't like writing really long responses especially to explain something as well documented as Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Here is a web link that explains it.
http://www.deepermind.com/20maslow.htm
2: What Indians are you discussing? American Indians or THE INDIANS. If you are discussing Native Americans I can answer you. The American Indians had a society with a different economic structure than ours. All members of this communal society were expected to pull their weight. Women were expected to engage in domestic chores such as tanning hides and cooking. Men were expected to engage in warfare and hunt. If you refused to contribute you would not be tolerated for long. In this way these people ensured their material survival, security, social needs, and ego needs were met. As far as the people in India...I think most of them work.
No successful society has ever tolerated members who did not contribute. In my opinion it is our moral obligation to the society in which we live to contribute our creative best to it's betterment. To do this we often need education. Working at the Quick-E_Mart with an IQ of 150 don't cut it. That is clearly NOT doing one's creative best.
"You don't want me to have a sympathetic understanding to what you consider to be a tough time in your life that you have openly shared here....?"
I am not trying to be an asshole here, but you don't know me. I don't consider any hardship I have overcome to be a reason for pity. I don't pity myself and I don't want it from others. My hard economic times were due to my jumping into a marriage ill prepared for it's responsibilities....my stupidity....I corrected that. I tell the story to make a point only.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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