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 RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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I am the kind of person that 99.9% of the time advocates freedom and enlightened concepts.
However, when it comes to the survival, defense, and retribution of my nation, I view any actions as being pretty much acceptable. For example, I think that Khalid Sheik Mohammed (Al Qaeda's 2nd in command who planned 9/11 and is currently in U.S. custody) should be released into Times Square in New York City where the city residents can do whatever they want to him. I think that confirmed members of Al Qaeda should be horrendously tortured. I would slather them in pig grease and put them in a cage with mean hungry dogs and then I would probably slice off their limbs with chainsaws. I would send the videotape to Al Jazeera for the sole purpose of scaring all of the Arabs and Muslims that were watching. I would approach this "War on Terror" completely differently than most people would. I would admit the U.S.'s mistakes and interferences in the Middle East. I would stop doing all of the things that piss Muslims off and I would apologize. But at the same time I would flat out threaten them. I would say, "You have no reason to be mad at us anymore. I don't trust any of you and I don't trust your religion. Any Muslim that raises his hand against the U.S. from now on will be mercilessly tortured and killed. If you do not currently fear us, you will fear us." Is this bad? Is it weird to have non-interventionist ideals and yet advocate merciless actions in the pursuit of defense and retribution?
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Psychoactive1984 PositiveCynicist  Registered: 02/06/05 Posts: 3,546 Loc: California, Mont |
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Stick to one stance, and ride it... flip-floppers don't fair that well in America.
 http://www.politicalcompass.org/ They are doing what they think is right... and so are we... We are their terrorists, and they ours. http://www.iep.utm.edu/j/justwar We could of course lower ourselves, and place ourselves in the same framework of the infidels/terrorists/freedom fighters/martyrs...(take your pick) -------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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AhronZombi AhronZombi  Registered: 04/06/04 Posts: 1,265 |
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why are muslims responsible for 9/11 . cause the news said so. i dont know whats going on in the world, i just know if the news pushes it its lies and propiganda and i wont trust it. the media is too controlled. we need to get away from governments and religion all together and embrace love ans spirituality and unconditional forgivness. then we will fix most of outr problems
Edited by AhronZombi (04/06/05 02:09 AM)
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: Um.....because they were. It seems to be quite common for extremist Muslims to engage in violent actions against civilians (remember the school hostage situation near Chechnya recently?).
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Psychoactive1984 PositiveCynicist Registered: 02/06/05 Posts: 3,546 Loc: California, Mont |
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Well, we want to spread democracy cough*resource allocation*cough...
And they want to terrorize us cough*want USA to get the fuck out of their country and want the resources for themselves*cough... Who's more justified? Those that win, and write the history of course! -------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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AhronZombi AhronZombi Registered: 04/06/04 Posts: 1,265 |
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Yeah but where did you see that my freind. Where did you get the info on all this muslim exstrmists. The media. i dont think ill sway you, but i wont trust it. The media is all about money not freedom like it once was, and money is controlled by government wich is controlled by criminals and lies and sins. Im not saying muslims arent involved, im just saying its slanted, the few muslims that are involved in this are mearly pupets of the big governments and criminals of the world. The media forces you to think its all about the extremests or muslims and pay no attention to the true source of these crime. this will really brain was you as it does most. the key is to learn to love and forgive unconditionally. its addictive and once it spreads we wont have to worry about who killed who or who is telling the truth
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 zahudulallah Sexual Heretic  Registered: 10/20/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 18 years, 10 months |
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Fortunately if you ever run for office, someone will expose your psychiatric past in the middle of the campaign
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AhronZombi AhronZombi Registered: 04/06/04 Posts: 1,265 |
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running for office is a bad idea for anyone. you cant change the system from wiithin, and once your in the system the only thing that changes is you
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: Well, if I was in charge I would stop all aid to Israel and unpopular Arab regimes. I would apologize for past mistakes and meddlings. I would apologize for the WMD debacle. I would also say that we owe it to the Iraqi people to stay until things were stable and prosperous. I would stress that we had absolutely no interest in imperialism, colonialism, or puppet government building (and I would prove it by our actions). I would try to get the hell out of the Middle East as fast as possible. I say we let it rot like the festering pile of dogshit that it is. I would basically be declaring a truce with the Arabs/Muslims. I would also make it clear that the gloves were off from then on though if there were any Arab/Muslim attacks against the U.S.
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: Psychiatric past? Did I write about that here? I only got on a few meds for a while. I don't think that disqualifies me from being dictator of the United States.
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Psychoactive1984 PositiveCynicist Registered: 02/06/05 Posts: 3,546 Loc: California, Mont |
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And our economy, and the resulting loss of power within that region would be obtained by another country to do just as what we are doing...
As good as it sounds, it's necessary to our way of life. People in America bitch about the gas prices now... imagine the dissention that would occur as a result from our withdraw, and further the destabilization of the region. Power struggles through the countries within the region, as well as outside... -------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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Psychoactive1984 PositiveCynicist Registered: 02/06/05 Posts: 3,546 Loc: California, Mont |
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Quote: 
-------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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zahudulallah Sexual Heretic Registered: 10/20/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 18 years, 10 months |
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Seriously weak. You remind me of Eric Cartman in a Hitler get up. Law abiding Muslims, be they Deepak Chopra liberals, moderates or terrorist cheer leaders, don't owe anyone diddly squat. Who would you declare a truce with? Who's the leader of the Muslims?
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: The only reason anybody is interested in the Middle East is because of oil. As long as there is a reasonable amount of stability on top of all of that sand, the oil continues to flow. That's all anybody cares about. So, if the U.S. stopped giving aid to some of those countries, it is possible that some other country would move in to give military aid to the various governments there and thus insure stability. I don't think that the U.S. gains any power by propping up governments over there. We get only heat and condemnation from the rest of the world. We take all of the heat to ensure that the oil continues to flow for all of the world's consumers. Edited by RandalFlagg (04/06/05 03:00 AM)
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AhronZombi AhronZombi Registered: 04/06/04 Posts: 1,265 |
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Quote:hitler was a speed baller, it didnt stop him
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AhronZombi AhronZombi Registered: 04/06/04 Posts: 1,265 |
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i think the only reson anyone cares about the middle east is because the government and media tells them to.
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: Respect my Author-it-y!! Quote: I know they don't. I never said they did. In fact I said how America owes them an apology for the ample meddling that has taken place. However, I still think that once this apology and change of behavior takes place, a blunt message of fearsome retaliation should be given if there were to be any further aggressions by Muslim extremists. Quote: The entire Arab and Muslim world.
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Psychoactive1984 PositiveCynicist Registered: 02/06/05 Posts: 3,546 Loc: California, Mont |
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Quote:  I thought we wanted to spread democracy and to take a genuine interest in helping out mankind. Well by propping up the governments, and supporting them indirectly, we support our stake and claim, and our image. If we were to just go in their, get what we wanted, and move out with little regard to how our actions our seen.... it wouldn't fly so well. The USA is afraid of another country gaining power in the region and further monopolizing the oil. It doesn't matter if the region is stable or not, we want it stable under our hand, why we get the cheapest prices in the world (short of the source countries). We gain a lot of power, we directly influence relations with other countries, by giving other countries the ability to govern themselves with little interaction and consequence to us, provided they scratch our backs equally. Saddam stopped scratching  he dealt with the consequences.
-------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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AhronZombi AhronZombi Registered: 04/06/04 Posts: 1,265 |
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why must we spread any kind of government at all. democracy now a days equals capitalism which destroys integrity
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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I thought we wanted to spread democracy and to take a genuine interest in helping out mankind. I think that is part of the plan with the Iraq invasion. I really think the Bush administration wants to spread democracy throughout the Middle East so that the Arabs/Muslims are free. If they are free they won't be so pissy anymore. If they aren't pissy anymore, they won't want to blow us up anymore. I think that this is a part of the administration's strategy. The USA is afraid of another country gaining power in the region and further monopolizing the oil. It doesn't matter if the region is stable or not, we want it stable under our hand, why we get the cheapest prices in the world (short of the source countries). I was under the assumption that everybody paid the same price for oil. The only reason that gas is more expensive in Europe is because they tax it heavily over there.
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zahudulallah Sexual Heretic Registered: 10/20/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 18 years, 10 months |
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You see, you cant call a "truce" via indiscriminate apprehension of the "Muslim world". The "Muslim world" consists of an array of nations, cultures, and races - people who's only interest is quality of life; the substance of their life being their adored historical religion. It doesn't take a rocket scientist for a third worlder to figure out that U.S. foreign policy is evidently selective. And people who go about their daily lives in nation states like Egypt or Saudi Arabia can only ponder further with rational thought when they see the U.S. talking about "liberation". The art of spin masks the rising ocean.
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: There seems to be an undercurrent of hatred or suspicion in the entire Arab and Muslim world towards the U.S. (or so I have seen in my readings). Muslims from Pakistan to Indonesia to Saudi Arabia to England and even to the U.S. have been exposed as having extremist leanings. Muslims have engaged in many terrorist actions during the past twenty years and there seems to be somewhat of an amount of sympathy and support in the Muslim world for this type of stuff. Because of these things, I don't think it is out of line to give a warning to the entire Arab and Muslim world.
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zahudulallah Sexual Heretic Registered: 10/20/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 18 years, 10 months |
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Their religion doesn't have anything to do with it. You're just isolating the majority of muslims further with blatant neo-McCarthyism towards people under the banner of Islamic faith.
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butterflydawn lucid dreamer   Registered: 01/25/04 Posts: 1,921 Loc: lost at sea Last seen: 24 days, 16 hours |
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Quote: big paradox here firstly. you say 'I am the kind of person that 99.9% of the time advocates freedom and enlightened concepts.' and then you say 'example, I think that Khalid Sheik Mohammed (Al Qaeda's 2nd in command who planned 9/11 and is currently in U.S. custody) should be released into Times Square in New York City where the city residents can do whatever they want to him.' your offer is just simply stupid and nothing to do about enlightment. pure violence. secondly, americam media has effected you like what they did nearly to your whole country. 9/11 subject is not that simple. its not a bout one person,its not about one nation. -------------------- lucidal expansion
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newuser1492 Registered: 06/12/03 Posts: 3,104 |
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Imagine a husband and wife are in an abusive relationship. The husband continually taunts the wife and often beats her. As some point he realizes the mistake of his actions and quits. At the same time he states, "I won't beat you anymore but don't mess with me or I'll kill you."
Sounds pretty fucking stupid doesn't it.
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Psychoactive1984 PositiveCynicist Registered: 02/06/05 Posts: 3,546 Loc: California, Mont |
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Quote: 1) perhaps.2) It depends, beyond taxing, I think it's also a higher price altogether (in some cases). http://www.mees.com/postedarticl -Just something interesting to note, shortly before we invaded Iraq Saddam Hussein was talking of (perhaps he did, don't recall) about switching to the Euro for payment versus the dollar. How expensive is gas though compared to other products? http://www.vpcga.com/i4a/pages/i -------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: Really? Then why are most of the terrorist actions in this world perpetrated by Muslim extremists? Quote: I guess you could say that I am. But, I don't really care about isolating people as I am an isolationist. Extremism is so rampant in the general Muslim and Arab population that I don't trust them.
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: Quote: I know and admit this. Quote: I don't think it is stupid, I know it isn't enlightened, and I know it is about pure violence. Quote: Trust me, the "American Media" hasn't brainwashed me.
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: You forgot to include in your analogy that the wife stabbed the husband.
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Psychoactive1984 PositiveCynicist Registered: 02/06/05 Posts: 3,546 Loc: California, Mont |
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Quote: Same way in the media, and in certain political spectrums associated with America that justifies our every action, and finds no flaw in our resolution, even if it contained a false premise to begin with. Example: Iraq had no WMD's>>Turned to an issue of humanitarian aid>> evidence is slowly being accumulated that Iraq's former WMD's have been shipped to another country>> We attack another country to find out where they shipped their weapons off to next ir order to keep the world safe and free the resulting country of the potential terrorist threat they pose. P.S I love that coined term... makes it seem like it's a hell of a lot worse then it actually is.... we're the country with the most "WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION"... let's hope another country isn't so anal as to attempt to derail us as we potentially pose a threat to the Earth as we know it as a whole. -------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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stefan work in progress  Registered: 04/11/01 Posts: 8,932 Loc: The Netherlands Last seen: 3 years, 6 months |
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Quote: I beg to differ... Everything you've said sounded extremely media ispired + personal hate/revenge issues. Also you don't seem to have good arguments for the way you're feeling, but mostly just opinions. Also please educate yourself more on this matter before saying you want people tortured to death etc. Quote: 
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: Yes, the things I have mentioned are revenge inspired. I believe in revenge and force. Quote: Yes, this particular post is opinion based. So what? I am giving my opinions on what I would do if I were in charge. Am I not allowed to express my opinion? Quote: I am educated. The people that America faces are zealots. They cut people's heads off, kidnap innocent civilians, and intentionally blow up innocent people. I think the only way to deal with people like this is to meet them with the exact same type of actions. The only way to deal with barbarians is to be barbarous to them.
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Psychoactive1984 PositiveCynicist Registered: 02/06/05 Posts: 3,546 Loc: California, Mont |
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Quote: Thereby making us barbarous... which in turn would have everyone categorize US by a few decisions made at the top... With that line of reasoning, we'll inevitably end up being dealt with in a manner similar to that, in those that inflict said action, will get the same. ~A paradox with no end accept the end of us all. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. I recall many event throughout my youth where I've seen others engage in similar behavior... It's why we have gangs, they just don't know when to stop as it's never justified until the opposing group is eliminated. Once achieved, they look to their form of retriblution as an ends to a mean, and it doesn't get any better. You're more then entitled to your views, I'm just attempting to understand them. -------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: Yes, it would be barbarous. And, because of that I guess we could be labeled barbarous. Quote: It will be difficult. I am strange.
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Psychoactive1984 PositiveCynicist Registered: 02/06/05 Posts: 3,546 Loc: California, Mont |
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Good... a bit tired of all these "normal" views.
-------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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newuser1492 Registered: 06/12/03 Posts: 3,104 |
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"I found one day in school a boy of medium size ill-treating a smaller boy. I expostulated, but he replied: 'The bigs hit me, so I hit the babies; that's fair.' In these words he epitomized the history of the human race." - Bertrand Russell
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zahudulallah Sexual Heretic Registered: 10/20/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 18 years, 10 months |
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You're benightedly burning bridges here, Randal. You hate Muslims, pure and simple. It doesn't matter who they are or what walk of life they hail from, as long as their parents raised them to be faithful to Allah and Prophet Muhammad, you feel justified to yourself to believe that they are potential terrorists.
The reason so many terrorists are Muslims has nothing to do with religion, but rather how Muslims as a whole are treated by the foreign policies of others. Terrorists are simply products of the same religio centric, American fanaticism that has oppressed Muslims for decades. People like you will be proven wrong by the likes of history itself - just as the McCarthyist inquisition of communists was, the Neo-McCarthyism in regard to Muslims and Arabs of today will go down in the books as another hysterical, puritan move on the part of Americans. With all the "watch lists", unreported arrests of Arabs and Muslims under the patriot act, one has to go back to the days of Roman Inquistion to find a comparable situation. --------------------
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newuser1492 Registered: 06/12/03 Posts: 3,104 |
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You forgot to include in your analogy that the wife stabbed the husband.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2002/10/26/MN201774.DTL Quote:
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: I don't hate all of them. I hate the extremist ones and I distrust the intentions, sympathies, and motivations of the general population. Quote: As can be evidenced by the ample terrorist actions undertaken by Muslims from all over the world, they are all potential terrorists in my opinion. Quote: There is truth to that. That is why I would immediately halt all of those meddling and innappropriate foreign policy actions by the U.S. Quote: I never said they didn't have a legitimate reason to be mad. Quote: We shall see. I am merely giving my opinion. Quote: McCarthy was a grand-standing dishonest scumbag, but he was pretty accurate in his portrayal of the communist threat. Quote: They are a threat, plain and simple. Many Muslims hate my country. Many of them live quietly in my country while holding a seething hatred of it. I don't trust them. How many articles have I read of Muslims who lived in the U.S., had lots of friends, and "loved this country" only to run over to Iraq to become suicide bombers or something like that? I remember when a Muslim U.S. Army soldier threw a grenade into a U.S. Army tent killing and injuring some U.S. soldiers. I am on my guard against Muslims. I will not foolishly hold out my arms to people who want to destroy me and my country.
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: And would it be wrong for the husband to stop abusing his wife and also keep a wary eye on his her.....for he knows what she is capable of?
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zahudulallah Sexual Heretic Registered: 10/20/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 18 years, 10 months |
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I don't hate all of them. I hate the extremist ones and I distrust the intentions, sympathies, and motivations of the general population.
I.e. Islamophobia. At least you don't try to mask your blatant bigotry -- unlike most people, you seem to be proud of your ignorance. As can be evidenced by the ample terrorist actions undertaken by Muslims from all over the world, they are all potential terrorists in my opinion. You're getting a 1 shroom rating for that. There is truth to that. That is why I would immediately halt all of those meddling and innappropriate foreign policy actions by the U.S. I cannot stress the word "benighted" enough. Please, look it up Randal. I never said they didn't have a legitimate reason to be mad. You seem to believe that just because a Muslim hates the United States that he represents a security threat. Such blatantly stupid, phobic mentalities are what creates inquisitions through history. Will you learn? Probably not. We shall see. I am merely giving my opinion. Like the confederates and slave traders, your opinion will be proven stupid, ignorant, and wrong. McCarthy was a grand-standing dishonest scumbag, but he was pretty accurate in his portrayal of the communist threat. As if he was "on the mark" on the blatant harassment and oppression of Americans who leaned far too left of center for his comfort. In the 1600's it was Witches and Pagans. In the 1900's it was communists. In the 21st century it's now Muslims. Why is it Randal, that the Right has to always have a declared enemy to support itself? Sounds like junk science and war economics to me. They are a threat, plain and simple. Many Muslims hate my country. Many of them live quietly in my country while holding a seething hatred of it. I don't trust them. I'm a Muslim, Randal. I despise the United States, its government, and half its culture. Am I "threat", Randall? How many articles have I read of Muslims who lived in the U.S., had lots of friends, and "loved this country" only to run over to Iraq to become suicide bombers or something like that? I don't know, how many? Do please post the links. I remember when a Muslim U.S. Army soldier threw a grenade into a U.S. Army tent killing and injuring some U.S. soldiers. Link? I am on my guard against Muslims. I will not foolishly hold out my arms to people who want to destroy me and my country. On guard? What does that mean? So you eye up Muslims in the grocery store? Are you even polite to Muslims? It's only a matter of time before you give some Arab American who listens to Rap music a cock-eyed look and get a left hook in the face. And knowing you, that would probably make you cry. --------------------
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Ravus Not an EggshellWalker  Registered: 07/18/03 Posts: 7,991 Loc: Cave of the Patr |
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Look at history. Has discrimination ever worked? Does keeping a massive religion, political viewpoint or race down ever work? Maybe the small ones that can be easily wiped out, but you're talking about over 1,500,000,000 people here. Torturing a few of them to try to threaten the other ones to roll over with their legs up will only backfire.
It surely wouldn't discourage terrorists; you think someone willing to strap a bomb to themselves and blow themselves up will be discouraged by a small possibility of capture and torture? Doubtful. It wouldn't stop new terrorists; if anything, it would just add to the numbers of terrorists, as they campaign to the angry Muslims around the world that America is torturing Muslims. So what's the point of this detrimental action? Pure blood-loving? That sounds about all you'd get out of it, just another crucifixion for the Jews to gather around and cheer at while the soldiers play dice. The U.S. has done far worse things to the terrorists and Muslims than they could ever do the U.S. Many more have died, many have been tortured, innocent civilians have had their houses blown up and family killed. If all the Muslims of the world took your violent discriminatory attitude, there would be no Americans left. Luckily, terrorism is an extremely miniscule fraction of Islam, just as it is in Christianity and other religions. We like to capitalize more on Islamic terrorism because we're actually getting retribution for our past actions and so try to stereotype a whole massive race and religion. -------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: I consider it realism, not bigotry. Quote: Look up the following occurrences: 1. Bali bombing - 202 killed (Oct. 1, 2002) 2. Luxor shooting - over 70 killed (Nov. 17, 1997) 3. Chechnya school shooting - 344 killed (Sep. 3, 2004) 4. Madrid bombing - 191 killed (Mar. 11, 2004) 5. African Embassy attacks - 288 killed (Aug. 7, 1998) Notice a pattern at all? Quote: I am benighted because I want to end U.S. interference in the Middle East? I thought you would agree with me on that assertion. Quote: Yes, you are a threat. You belong to a religion that has ample members who engage in or sympathize with violent actions against civilians and who hate my country. And on top of that you admit your hatred of my country, the government, and my culture. That is a bold statement and it is threatening. I have seen you demonstrate ample sympathy for Muslim extremists who have killed people. People who exhibit these opinions are threats. The second somebody decides to act on these opinions, they become even bigger threats. Quote: Like I said...McCarthy was a scumbag. That doesn't change the fact that the communists were active, were a threat, and were dedicated to the destruction of America. When somebody holds allegiances to an ideology that preaches your destruction...you should be wary and concerned. Quote: I am not picking Muslims as an "enemy" to have something to rail against. I am merely examining the reality that a lot of the Islamic world seems to be fomenting violence and extremism. Quote: http://www.natashatynes.org/newswire/2005/04/raed_albanna_a_.html Quote: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/03/24/MN17824.DTL Quote: I am wary of them and their intentions. Quote: I don't give people funny looks. And, I don't cry.
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: If a certain group of people wants to destroy you or sympathizes with people who want to destroy you, then you discriminate against them if you want to survive. Quote: Maybe.
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zahudulallah Sexual Heretic Registered: 10/20/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 18 years, 10 months |
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I consider it realism, not bigotry.
Just about every bigot and witch hunter tells themself that. Look up the following occurrences: 1. Bali bombing - 202 killed (Oct. 1, 2002) 2. Luxor shooting - over 70 killed (Nov. 17, 1997) 3. Chechnya school shooting - 344 killed (Sep. 3, 2004) 4. Madrid bombing - 191 killed (Mar. 11, 2004) 5. African Embassy attacks - 288 killed (Aug. 7, 1998) Notice a pattern at all? And how many Muslims and Arabs have been killed by the U.S. occupation of Iraq? How many Chechens have been killed by Russia's dual invasions of Chechnya? Furthermore, only ONE of those attacks was on an American target. I need not even mention all the acts of terror and murder that have been carried out by Christians. I am benighted because I want to end U.S. interference in the Middle East? I thought you would agree with me on that assertion. You're benighted because while you supposedly acknowledge "U.S. interference", you continue to contribute to a clashing of cultures. Yes, you are a threat. You belong to a religion that has ample members who engage in or sympathize with violent actions against civilians and who hate my country. And on top of that you admit your hatred of my country, the government, and my culture. That is a bold statement and it is threatening. I have seen you demonstrate ample sympathy for Muslim extremists who have killed people. People who exhibit these opinions are threats. The second somebody decides to act on these opinions, they become even bigger threats. If I'm a threat to you, you're probably a threat to Dutch Libertarians. Like I said...McCarthy was a scumbag. That doesn't change the fact that the communists were active, were a threat, and were dedicated to the destruction of America. When somebody holds allegiances to an ideology that preaches your destruction...you should be wary and concerned. Dedicated to the destruction of America? First, the McCarthyist witch hunt was one directed towards members of Communist Party USA. Are you saying that the basic constitutional rights of people to believe whatever they want to believe politically were a threat to American security? From '48 to '56, America suffered a major lapse in civil liberties. And last but not least, what proof do you have that Communist ideology is specifically dedicated to the destruction of America? I am not picking Muslims as an "enemy" to have something to rail against. I am merely examining the reality that a lot of the Islamic world seems to be fomenting violence and extremism. Aw, so what happened to the Commie threat, Randy? There's still Cuba, North Korea.. and *drum roll* China http://www.natashatynes.org/new Where is this story in the mainstream press? http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/a "Apparently Muslim" Why cant you link these incidents to more mainstream media?I am wary of them and their intentions. And just what are the intentions of the average Muslim? I don't give people funny looks. And, I don't cry. Lies --------------------
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Kalix 'Head  Registered: 03/20/05 Posts: 1,504 Last seen: 18 years, 4 months |
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You are a fascist...
-------------------- My Unitarian Jihad Name is: The Shotgun of Sweet Reason
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Phred Fred's son  Registered: 10/18/00 Posts: 12,949 Loc: Dominican Republ Last seen: 9 years, 3 months |
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Quote: It was everywhere at the time it occurred. This was all over the news for days at the very beginning of the Iraq invasion. The Lefties were having a field day with it, claiming variously that -- the US military couldn't even protect its troops from their own kind so how could they defeat the dreaded Republican Guard armed with biochem weapons -- this showed that even American Muslims didn't want to see the most prolific killer of Muslims in the last century deposed -- the invasion was another "Viet Nam" ... look, the fragging has started already! The guy who fragged the tents -- murdering two and wounding a dozen others -- isn't an "alleged" Muslim, he's a self-admitted Muslim. Read his statements. If you want something more up to date than the link Randall provided, go here and browse for hours. Reports in Yahoo, MSNBC, ABC, AP, WaPo, Washington Times and many many more about the upcoming trial and his confessions, his defense team's proposed defense.... click and ye shall be rewarded. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...amp;btnG=Search Phred -------------------- 
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shroommachine Stranger Registered: 01/03/05 Posts: 1,202 Loc: Florida Last seen: 9 years, 9 months |
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Off topic, but I'm
our political compass Economic Left/Right: -5.63 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.62 -------------------- And I said, I don't care if they lay me off either, because I told, I told Bill that if they move my desk one more time, then, then I'm, I'm quitting, I'm going to quit. And, and I told Don too, because they've moved my desk ...four times already this year and I used to be over by the window and I could see the squirrels, and they were merry, but then, they switched from the Swingline to the Boston stapler, but I kept my Swingline stapler because it didn't bind up as much and I kept the staples for the Swingline stapler and its not okay because if they take my stapler then I'll set the building on fire.
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: I have seen estimates ranging from 10,000 to 50,000. It could be argued that by getting rid of Saddam the sanctions could be lifted and therefore lives would be saved in the long run. While it is terrible that it appears as if that many people have died, the tactics used by both sides are completely different. When an innocent Muslim dies because of U.S. actions, it is a mistake. During many instances when a Muslim decides to go on a holy martyrdom mission, he intentionally targets innocent people. How a supposedly pious individual can intentionally kill young children and women with bullets or bombs is beyond me. I can understand the attacks against U.S. troops (I don't condone them however). I can understand attacks against legitimate military targets and officials. I can't understand blatant and intentional attacks against civilians. It is despicable and it is a common tactic of Muslim extremists. Quote: I don't know. Did you see any Russians setting up bombs around little children and shooting them as they fled? Oh that's right......the Chechyn Muslims did that. Quote: You missed my point. I intentionally listed terror attacks that occurred in many areas and against many different people as proof that Muslim extremism is very widespread and consistently targets innocent people. Quote: If I had lived during 1000 AD and I saw the Christians going nuts, I would have called them on it too. Today it is the Muslims that are going nuts. So, I am going to call them on it. Quote: I contribute to the "clash of cultures"? What about you?....and I quote: I'm a Muslim, Randal. I despise the United States, its government, and half its culture. You certainly seem to be more vitriolic and full of hate than I am. You are just as guilty, if not more guilty, than me when it comes to contributing to the "clash of cultures". You yell at me for expressing wariness of a culture, a religion, and a people, yet you condemn my entire country and my people. You and your Muslim brothers are allowed to seethe with hatred and I am not? Don't you think that is a tad bit of a double standard? Let me guess....you think it is OK for Muslim clerics to call for jihad against America, for virulent anti-American views to be spewed in the Arab press, and for many Arabs and Muslims to outright detest America. Yet us Americans are not allowed to be concerned about this at all? I constantly hear Muslims bitch and moan about "discrimination" and "bigotry". Yet, do you hear them cry for the victims in Madrid or in Bali? Fucking disgusting. If you belong to a group that is responsible for most of the terroristic acts against civilians during the past thirty years, you better get ready for some extra scrutiny. So....it is OK for Muslims to defend themselves, to be wary of the U.S., and to outright hate the U.S.? Yet when an American reciprocates we are labeled "ignorant", "bigots", and "full of hate"? How pathetically hypocritical. Quote: The members of the U.S. Communist Party were loyal to the USSR. The USSR was hostile to the U.S. These members were also loyal to the tenets of Communism, which quite bluntly call for the overthrow of all capitalist economies and non-Communist governments. Lenin quite clearly said that reformers were just as bad as the "ruling class". He thought only total revolution would cure society. Therefore, these people were serious threats. Do I think they should have been thrown in jail or silenced? No. Do I think they should have been watched? Hell yes. Quote: It has been extinguished for the most part (Thank God). Cuba is a non-factor, North Korea is a freaky zombie state (although with nukes it appears), and China is apparently moving towards more market and personal freedoms. Quote: I just read it in the April 4, 2005 issue of "Time". Is that mainstream enough for you? Quote: NBC News has reported that Sgt. Akbar was ?opposed to the killing of Muslims and opposed to the war in Iraq.? Reuters news agency quoted a military official as saying Sgt. Akbar was ?a Muslim, and it seems he was just against the war.? The Los Angeles Times, quoting a source close to Sgt. Akbar?s family, also reported that the soldier called his ex-wife?s family a day before the grenade attack and asked them to say ?final prayers? for him. Quote: I don't know. But, I know I will keep my eye on them. Edited by RandalFlagg (04/08/05 01:39 AM)
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zahudulallah Sexual Heretic Registered: 10/20/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 18 years, 10 months |
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How so?
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zahudulallah Sexual Heretic Registered: 10/20/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 18 years, 10 months |
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Alright, so it happened. I must have been occupied with something else during the time and didn't catch the blurb. However railing on "Lefties" over an isolated incident is not eloquent in the slightest. And the last point - well, needless to say Iraq is another Vietnam; however, with slight modifications to the modern situation at hand. NFL insurgents were far more prepared for their situation.
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zahudulallah Sexual Heretic Registered: 10/20/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 18 years, 10 months |
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I have seen estimates ranging from 10,000 to 50,000. It could be argued that by getting rid of Saddam the sanctions could be lifted and therefore lives would be saved in the long run.
I smell a straw man. While it is terrible that it appears as if that many people have died, the tactics used by both sides are completely different. When an innocent Muslim dies because of U.S. actions, it is a mistake. During many instances when a Muslim decides to go on a holy martyrdom mission, he intentionally targets innocent people. How a supposedly pious individual can intentionally kill young children and women with bullets or bombs is beyond me. Who's to say insurgents intentionally target civilians? Just because women and children die in suicide bombings doesn't mean they were intentionally targetted. In such cases where innocent people die in insurgent attacks, it is normally attacks on American-backed Iraqi police. I can understand the attacks against U.S. troops (I don't condone them however). I can understand attacks against legitimate military targets and officials. I can't understand blatant and intentional attacks against civilians. It is despicable and it is a common tactic of Muslim extremists. Both American and Iraqi fighters use the same ass-backwards logic to justify death for a "greater good". The American fighter believes that those who are innocent that die in an American bombing are collateral damage because the American was after all trying to kill insurgents. The Iraqi insurgent uses the same logic when he detonates a car bomb outside a coalition-backed police station. I don't know. Did you see any Russians setting up bombs around little children and shooting them as they fled? Oh that's right......the Chechyn Muslims did that. Russians are not living under brutal invasive military occupation by a foreign source, so it's only natural to assume that Russians are not the ones being driven to desperation. Attacks like Beslan highlight the desperation that violent occupation can drive some people to. Furthermore, most Russians go about their daily business - Chechens on the otherhand, not one of them has been uneffected by the actions of the Kremlin. You missed my point. I intentionally listed terror attacks that occurred in many areas and against many different people as proof that Muslim extremism is very widespread and consistently targets innocent people. So, at the height of religious terrorism in Northern Ireland, where was the wary mentality towards Christians? Or how about the array of terrorist attacks against Women's clinics in the US in the 1990's? There would have been a blatant outrage if a prominent Liberal called on people to "suspect" Protestants. If I had lived during 1000 AD and I saw the Christians going nuts, I would have called them on it too. Today it is the Muslims that are going nuts. So, I am going to call them on it. Christians are still going nuts, they just avoid getting their hands dirty. Hence the frustration of oppressive foreign policy. I contribute to the "clash of cultures"? What about you?....and I quote: I'm a Muslim, Randal. I despise the United States, its government, and half its culture. You certainly seem to be more vitriolic and full of hate than I am. You are just as guilty, if not more guilty, than me when it comes to contributing to the "clash of cultures". You yell at me for expressing wariness of a culture, a religion, and a people, yet you condemn my entire country and my people. You and your Muslim brothers are allowed to seethe with hatred and I am not? Don't you think that is a tad bit of a double standard? What I am seeing you say is that it is OK for Muslims to defend themselves, it is OK for Muslims to be wary of the U.S., and it is OK for Muslims to hate the U.S. Yet when an American reciprocates we are labeled "ignorant", "bigots", and "full of hate"? How pathetically hypocritical. Is it OK when multiple and prominent Muslim clerics call for a jihad against America? Is it OK when virulent anti-American views get spewed in the Arab press? Is it OK for many Arabs and Muslims to idolize Osama Bin Laden? Is it OK for a significant part of the Arab and Muslim populations to have these views? And yet at the same time whenever an American expresses concern or wariness about the intentions of some of these people, we are the bigots. We have Muslims like you ignore the sickness of your own homeland and scream about terrible we are. You rail about how oppressive it is for a Muslim living in America because they might be scrutinized slightly, yet I don't hear you crying for those tourists murdered in Bali. Double standard? Because I despise your government, and the fundamentalist bloc of conservative mentality that rules that government with an iron fist does not make me a bigot. I don't indiscriminately distrust Americans, or Protestants for that matter. It's one thing to distrust a country's government. It's another to insult an entire religion based on irrational phobia.My reasons to despise the American government is political, not personal; like your "distrust" of 1/5 of the entire human race. I am strongly opposed to the American government, both Republican and Democratic parties. The members of the U.S. Communist Party were loyal to the USSR. Source? The USSR was hostile to the U.S. See above the tenets of Communism, which quite bluntly call for the overthrow of all capitalist economies and non-Communist governments. Need I say more... link? It has been extinguished for the most part (Thank God). Cuba is a non-factor, North Korea is a freaky zombie state (although with nukes it appears), and China is apparently moving towards more market and personal freedoms. So, North Korea has nukes and it's not a problem?  And as for China, la de da it's permitting economic freedom... currently China is on the verge of throwing the world into further instability with a potential all out martial rule of Taiwan.I don't know. But, I know I will keep my eye on them. And thanks to cats like you, they in return feel the need to keep an eye you... "Clash of Cultures" Randal... think about it; nevermind, that's asking for too much. I'm not saying you don't have the right to be a bigot. I'm a Left Libertarian, I believe people have the right to say whatever they want, including the incitation of violence, other crimes, and hate speech. I'm just calling out ignorance when I see it. And you're chalk full of that my friend. --------------------
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: http://www.thecouriermail.news.c FORTY-seven Iraqis were killed and more than 80 wounded in a suicide bombing at a Shiite funeral in Mosul overnight, hospitals said, as the frontrunners in last month's elections raced to finalise a deal on a new governing coalition. And, I was not only referring to Iraq. I was also referring to the multitude of Islamic terrorist actions in other areas of the world that intentionally and viciously targeted innocent people. Quote: I don?t give a shit how desperate they are. You don?t shoot little kids in the back as they run in terror. If they would have shot soldiers or officials, then I would not have a problem with it. Quote: Did you see the IRA hacking people?s heads off and murdering young children? Do you see the IRA operating on every continent? The Ireland situation is in one area. Muslim extremists are in MANY areas, they are numerous, they perform many terrorist acts, and they kill many people. Quote: You have the gall to compare a tiny little number of nutballs who did a few attacks on Women?s Clinics to the thousands upon thousands of active and well-funded Muslim extremists in the world and their thousands (if not millions) of sympathizers? Muslim extremism is a MUCH bigger problem.Quote: America is ruled with an iron fist..? It?s more like every Arab and Muslim country is ruled with an iron fist.Quote: I remember reading several of your posts where you openly praised the 9/11 attacks. If you (and a lot of your fellow Muslims) are openly agreeing with, sympathizing with, or praising actions like this, it is quite possible that your community could spawn people who are looking to murder my countrymen or provide support to those who do. What is wrong with recognizing this and being wary? It is not bigotry. It is common sense. My reason to distrust Muslims and their intentions is not personal. It is a valid response to a group of people that seem to be hostile to my people and my country. I merely examine reality and respond accordingly. Quote: It is not an irrational phobia to distrust a group of people that consistently produces terrorists, extremism, and people who vow your destruction. Quote: During the period of Stalinist domination of world communism (1929-1953), communist parties across the globe fell more and more under the influence of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and its leader, Joseph Stalin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Com Quote: That the breakdown of relations was a direct result of Stalin's violation of the Yalta accords, the imposition of Soviet-dominated governments on an unwilling Eastern Europe, Soviet intransigence, and aggressive Soviet expansionism. This view is generally shared by historians from the Soviet-occupied Eastern Europe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Col Quote: ?We'll ask the man, where do you stand on the question of the revolution? Are you for it or against it? If he's against it, we'll stand him up against a wall.? - V.I. Lenin http://www.chagala.com/ibaffairs Quote: Yes, it is a problem. I never said it wasn?t. Quote: What do I have to think about? There are a lot of Muslims out there who hate my country and my culture. Some of them are actively trying to kill me. Many Muslims are sympathetic to this. That is the simple truth and you know it. What is terrible about being concerned about this? Should I ignore my self-defense in order to appear ?enlightened? and ?progressive?? Fuck that. This is where you and I differ: I am willing to examine my government?s actions and admit mistakes. You seem incapable of examining the rampant extremism present in your religion and you seem incapable of criticizing your more murderous brothers. Quote: Go ahead and keep an eye on us. Do you see American civilians orchestrating intentional mass murder of civilians? Do you see Americans cutting people?s heads off and screaming, ?God is Great?? Do you see American zealots killing themselves in order to perpetrate attacks on civilians? Do you see Americans taking people off of buses and gunning them down on the side of the road? Do you see Americans kidnapping and murdering children? Do you see Americans invading compounds and going from room to room murdering Muslims? These are all things that extremist Muslims have done. I have every right to be appalled and worried about behavior like that. Go ahead and keep an eye on us. We have much more to fear from the extremist ilk of your religion than you have to fear from us.
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zahudulallah Sexual Heretic Registered: 10/20/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 18 years, 10 months |
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http://www.thecouriermail.news.c
FORTY-seven Iraqis were killed and more than 80 wounded in a suicide bombing at a Shiite funeral in Mosul overnight, hospitals said, as the frontrunners in last month's elections raced to finalise a deal on a new governing coalition. And, I was not only referring to Iraq. I was also referring to the multitude of Islamic terrorist actions in other areas of the world that intentionally and viciously targeted innocent people. How is this any different from Protestant/Catholic violence? Oh wait, there is none. (See dictionary: ignorance) I don?t give a shit how desperate they are. You don?t shoot little kids in the back as they run in terror. If they would have shot soldiers or officials, then I would not have a problem with it. Who cares, the terrorists who carried out the Beslan attack are now dead. If anyone tried to guilt trip me in person about Beslan and my religion, I would spit in his face. Did you see the IRA hacking people?s heads off and murdering young children? Do you see the IRA operating on every continent? The Ireland situation is in one area. Muslim extremists are in MANY areas, they are numerous, they perform many terrorist acts, and they kill many people. Actually, several children were killed in IRA attacks over the years. You have the gall to compare a tiny little number of nutballs who did a few attacks on Women?s Clinics to the thousands upon thousands of active and well-funded Muslim extremists in the world and their thousands (if not millions) of sympathizers? Muslim extremism is a MUCH bigger problem. If Islamic extremism is such a big problem, when and where was the last American civilian killed by a terrorist? I... Ir... Ira.... America is ruled with an iron fist..? It?s more like every Arab and Muslim country is ruled with an iron fist. And they're backed by the good ole U.S. of A. I remember reading several of your posts where you openly praised the 9/11 attacks. If you (and a lot of your fellow Muslims) are openly agreeing with, sympathizing with, or praising actions like this, it is quite possible that your community could spawn people who are looking to murder my countrymen or provide support to those who do. What is wrong with recognizing this and being wary? It is not bigotry. It is common sense. My reason to distrust Muslims and their intentions is not personal. It is a valid response to a group of people that seem to be hostile to my people and my country. I merely examine reality and respond accordingly. What's real insulting is that you associate people like me, and other peace loving Muslims with fucking CHILD KILLERS. What the fuck is wrong with you? It is not an irrational phobia to distrust a group of people that consistently produces terrorists, extremism, and people who vow your destruction. How is this different from murderous western diatribes that interfere with geopolitics? Oh wait, it isn't different. You're just on the side with the bomb. What's troubling is that you probably couldn't even manage a friendship with a Muslim, because your benighted cultural pride disguised in 'security' would be too apparent. Oh Muslims Here is where you come into the picture, Randal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mor During the period of Stalinist domination of world communism (1929-1953), communist parties across the globe fell more and more under the influence of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and its leader, Joseph Stalin. http://en.wikiped Does Communist Party USA have the right to exist in your eyes, or not? Yes, it is a problem. I never said it wasn?t. Perhaps you would like to enlighten us why Iraq was invaded, who was only suspected of being illegally armed, and not North Korea, which has openly admitted it is illegally armed by the standards of the international community. What do I have to think about? There are a lot of Muslims out there who hate my country and my culture. Some of them are actively trying to kill me. Many Muslims are sympathetic to this. That is the simple truth and you know it. What is terrible about being concerned about this? Should I ignore my self-defense in order to appear ?enlightened? and ?progressive?? Fuck that. How vain can you be? How benighted can you be? You sound like an old lady in the middle of Nowhere, Idaho ranting on how so and so "might be a terrorist". It has to be the most dumbfounding phenomena among Americans since they were taught to hide under desks during a nuclear bomb attack. My reason to distrust Muslims and their intentions is not personal. It is a valid response to a group of people that seem to be hostile to my people and my country. I merely examine reality and respond accordingly. Your country is the Meth tweaker of the world, hence witch hunting to the point where the Peace Train man himself can't enter the country. This is where you and I differ: I am willing to examine my government?s actions and admit mistakes. You seem incapable of examining the rampant extremism present in your religion and you seem incapable of criticizing your more murderous brothers. Why do you call them my "brothers"? I have nothing in common with Muslim orthodoxy. Go ahead and keep an eye on us. Do you see American civilians orchestrating intentional mass murder of civilians? Do you see Americans cutting people?s heads off and screaming, ?God is Great?? Do you see American zealots killing themselves in order to perpetrate attacks on civilians? Do you see Americans taking people off of buses and gunning them down on the side of the road? Do you see Americans kidnapping and murdering children? Do you see Americans invading compounds and going from room to room murdering Muslims? These are all things that extremist Muslims have done. I have every right to be appalled and worried about behavior like that. You clearly have no concept whatsoever of geopolitics. America is not being occupied. America wasn't invaded. America isn't being bombed on a weekly basis. Americans are not being subjected to a war torn country, and lastly Americans have little to complain about as they were also in the business of stealing land. In the world of "Culture Clashing" Randal, the mentality that many Americans have to "Support our troops," is comparable to the Muslims who offer their moral support to the young men who are fighting as insurgents. Go ahead and keep an eye on us. We have much more to fear from the extremist ilk of your religion than you have to fear from us. Grow up, you self righteous American. --------------------
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: It is more of a concern because Islamic extremists are more numerous and much more active than Christian extremists are. Also, Christians are not trying to attack my country and kill my fellow citizens. Extremist Muslims are. Quote: It is yet one more example (among many) of the militancy of many Muslims. Quote: My concern is not only for Americans, but also other people. Extremist Muslims have intentionally targeted and killed many civilians around the world. The last time an American civilian was killed by an Islamic extremist? I?m not too sure. Maybe it was on May 12, 2003 when this happened: (CBS) Attackers shot their way into three housing compounds in synchronized strikes in the Saudi capital and then set off multiple suicide car bombs, killing at least 91 people, including seven Americans, officials reported Tuesday. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/05/13/world/main553649.shtml Quote: Syria isn?t backed by the U.S. Iran isn?t backed by the U.S. They are still dictatorships. I have little hope for Arabs and Muslims to get their societies and governments in order. I certainly hope I am wrong. Yes, the U.S. government does give money and weapons to a significant amount of Muslim and Arab governments. I don?t think it should do that. I think we should let that part of the world rot like the cesspool that it seems to be. Quote: I associate you with them because you seem to have sympathy for them, you barely chastise them when they commit blatant murder, and you have a lot of the same vitriol and hatreds that they do. You and 99% of your fellow Muslims might have never set off a bomb or shot an ?infidel? civilian, but I see ample support (direct and indirect) for these people. By the way, if you are "peace-loving" why do you seem to exhibit sympathy or flat-out support for terrorist attacks on the U.S. (as can be evidenced by your past support of 9/11)? Quote: I can understand Muslim wariness about the U.S. government and its intentions. Why can?t you understand my wariness about a group of people that consistently produces terrorists and support for terrorists? You and your fellow Muslims have every right to keep an eye on us. And we have every right to keep an eye on you. Quote: Thank God I am on the side of the bomb. I shudder to think of a Middle Eastern theocracy or dictatorship with nuclear weapons. Quote: Cultural pride? How dare you accuse me of cultural pride when you are an obvious extremist apologist who said earlier in the thread ?I hate most of American culture?. Is that the pot calling the kettle black? Quote: It has the right to exist. You can say and think whatever you want in this country. But, if your affiliations and beliefs indicate you support the murder of civilians and destruction of the social order, then you should be watched. Quote: Why I think Iraq was invaded: 1. Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD). The intelligence agencies (domestic and foreign) thought Saddam had them. It appears as if he did not. The intelligence community fucked up. 2. To reduce our reliance on troublesome Saudi Arabia. If we could establish a friendly government in Iraq, we would not have to be close allies with the Saudis. 3. To alleviate the suffering of the Iraqi people. As long as Saddam was in power, he would not obey the resolutions levied against him which means the sanctions would have stayed in effect indefinitely. As long as the sanctions were in effect, Iraqis would have continued to starve and die. 4. To get troops on the borders of Iran and Syria as a warning. Both of these countries blatantly support Islamic extremists. 5. To help build and spread democracy throughout the Middle East. If the Arabs could become free, they would not be as mad anymore. If they are not as mad they will be less likely to adopt militant attitudes and therefore would be less likely to engage in terrorist acts. 6. To save Iraq?s oil fields. Because of the sanctions, the Iraqis could not get the proper equipment to maintain their oil fields. If oil fields are not maintained, the oil that can be retrieved from them decreases until they are ruined. Every day that went by, Iraq was losing national wealth because of that. If the oil fields can be properly maintained, the wealth will still be there for the Iraqis and it will also stabilize world oil supplies. 7. With Saddam gone the U.S. government can pull troops out of Saudi Arabia without looking wimpy. Having American troops in Saudi Arabia (which houses the holiest sites of Islam) is one of the main reasons that Muslims hate the U.S. 8. The Middle East is notorious for inspiring cultures that respect power. By taking out a blatantly hostile leader, we send a message to the Middle East in general??Don?t mess with us?. Why I think North Korea is not being invaded: 1. The North Koreans have artillery aimed at Seoul. Hundreds of thousands of civilians would be killed instantly if North Korea let loose with these guns. Quote: It is a ?dumbfounding phenomena?? You still refuse to acknowledge that there are many Muslims in the world who hate the U.S. You refuse to acknowledge that some of these Muslims make efforts to kill American citizens. Not only is 9/11 an obvious example, but there are more examples: The Los Angeles International Airport bombing plot A man named Ahmed Ressam, an Algerian living in Canada, planned to bomb Los Angeles International Airport in Los Angeles, California, United States. He was arrested at the United States-Canada border in Port Angeles, Washington after crossing by ferry on December 14, 1999. Customs officials then found nitroglycerin and four timing devices concealed in a spare tire well of his automobile. He and three other Algerians stood trial for the crime. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_millennium_attack_plots 1993 World Trade Center Bombing A Kuwaiti man named Ramzi Yousef began in 1991 to plan a bombing attack within the United States. Six people were killed. At least 1,040 others were injured. However, the towers were not destroyed as Yousef envisioned. Yousef escaped to Pakistan several hours later. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_bombing Quote: Because you express sympathy and support for them. You seem to have many of the same basic beliefs. You also seem to be an apologist that refuses to even seriously examine or condemn the rampant extremism that is prevalent amongst Arabs and Muslims. Quote: What?s wrong? Can?t debate intelligently and you need to resort to insults?
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Asante Omnicyclion prophet  Registered: 02/06/02 Posts: 87,330 |
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Quote: You're not a fascist. You are misled by the media  You have never met those people. Never spoken a word with them. Yet you want to horribly torture them into death because of the image you have that was imposed on you by a propaganda campaign. If you were to discuss international politics with Bin Laden over a hamburger at McDonalds (I'm going for full political incorrectness now  ) you would likely be strongly impressed by his capacity to reason and the logic and perfect sense in his point of view. If you were to do the same with Bush (or, well, his advisor ) you would come away equally impressed.I've seen a subtitled speech by Sassam Hussein and I'm sorry to say but in many aspects he came across as a reasonable and pretty intelligent person. I like to think Bush is alot smarter than he looks. But somehow these bright charismatic people incite people to radicalize and kill eachother. They strive for power and wealth and have little problems with the fact that many die for them on either side. Now look at your anger: Quote: You are calling for a lynching mob. Quote: You want to legalize the practices of Guantanamo and Al Graib (?) Quote: You get violent fantasies to personally mentally and physically torture them to the death. You're pretty frustrated about it all, so frustrated that if you were a president of a mideast country.. you would be Saddam, Uday and Osama all rolled into one. Your crimes would abolish democracy. Think about it. Disarm your mind. Don't let the radicals win. Stop hating and start thinking. 
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zahudulallah Sexual Heretic Registered: 10/20/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 18 years, 10 months |
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It is more of a concern because Islamic extremists are more numerous and much more active than Christian extremists are. Also, Christians are not trying to attack my country and kill my fellow citizens. Extremist Muslims are.
How many Islamic extremists are there, Mr. Statician? It is yet one more example (among many) of the militancy of many Muslims. It has to do with the militancy of human beings in certain certain situations. It has nothing to do with Islam anymore than poverty has something to do with being black. My concern is not only for Americans, but also other people. Extremist Muslims have intentionally targeted and killed many civilians around the world. The last time an American civilian was killed by an Islamic extremist? I?m not too sure. Maybe it was on May 12, 2003 when this happened: (CBS) Attackers shot their way into three housing compounds in synchronized strikes in the Saudi capital and then set off multiple suicide car bombs, killing at least 91 people, including seven Americans, officials reported Tuesday. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/05/13/world/main553649.shtml Why do most people in other countries that have been hit by Al Qaeda don't share your views? Look at Spain for example. Syria isn?t backed by the U.S. Iran isn?t backed by the U.S. They are still dictatorships. I have little hope for Arabs and Muslims to get their societies and governments in order. I certainly hope I am wrong. Yes, the U.S. government does give money and weapons to a significant amount of Muslim and Arab governments. I don?t think it should do that. I think we should let that part of the world rot like the cesspool that it seems to be. And what does Syria, a wild card dictatorship like many others outside the Muslim world - have to do with the Muslim religion per say? Need I not mention the U.S. backed KINGDOM of SAUDI ARABIA?! I associate you with them because you seem to have sympathy for them, you barely chastise them when they commit blatant murder, and you have a lot of the same vitriol and hatreds that they do. You and 99% of your fellow Muslims might have never set off a bomb or shot an ?infidel? civilian, but I see ample support (direct and indirect) for these people. By the way, if you are "peace-loving" why do you seem to exhibit sympathy or flat-out support for terrorist attacks on the U.S. (as can be evidenced by your past support of 9/11)? This is your damn problem: I try to seperate the Muslim religion from acts of terror and murder, and you try to accuse me of having sympathy for them? How does this make sense, Randal? I can understand Muslim wariness about the U.S. government and its intentions. Why can?t you understand my wariness about a group of people that consistently produces terrorists and support for terrorists? You and your fellow Muslims have every right to keep an eye on us. And we have every right to keep an eye on you. Are you saying that Muslims somehow "create" terrorists? Who is doing the creating here? Are you saying terrorists have no free will because their culture/religion created them? Huh? What was that? Did you say something, Randal? Thank God I am on the side of the bomb. I shudder to think of a Middle Eastern theocracy or dictatorship with nuclear weapons. You don't have the bomb, Randal. You're a citizen in a country whose government has the bomb - a government which you blindly revere as a spearhead in your own personal opinions. Cultural pride? How dare you accuse me of cultural pride when you are an obvious extremist apologist who said earlier in the thread ?I hate most of American culture?. Is that the pot calling the kettle black? The only pride I have is faggot pride. Whassup ma Nizzle? It has the right to exist. You can say and think whatever you want in this country. But, if your affiliations and beliefs indicate you support the murder of civilians and destruction of the social order, then you should be watched. "Watching" was hardly what McCarthyism was about. 1. Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD). The intelligence agencies (domestic and foreign) thought Saddam had them. It appears as if he did not. The intelligence community fucked up. Some of that intelligence was a downright fraud - i.e., the uranium claim regarding Niger. 2. To reduce our reliance on troublesome Saudi Arabia. If we could establish a friendly government in Iraq, we would not have to be close allies with the Saudis. Please remind me again Randal, why the United States has such a strong reliance on Saudi Arabia? 3. To alleviate the suffering of the Iraqi people. As long as Saddam was in power, he would not obey the resolutions levied against him which means the sanctions would have stayed in effect indefinitely. As long as the sanctions were in effect, Iraqis would have continued to starve and die. Ah I see. Punish the people for their ruler. 5. To help build and spread democracy throughout the Middle East. If the Arabs could become free, they would not be as mad anymore. If they are not as mad they will be less likely to adopt militant attitudes and therefore would be less likely to engage in terrorist acts. Then why invade the dozen other dictatorships around the world. Oh wait, they don't have anything resourceful to offer... 6. To save Iraq?s oil fields. Because of the sanctions, the Iraqis could not get the proper equipment to maintain their oil fields. If oil fields are not maintained, the oil that can be retrieved from them decreases until they are ruined. Every day that went by, Iraq was losing national wealth because of that. If the oil fields can be properly maintained, the wealth will still be there for the Iraqis and it will also stabilize world oil supplies. Did you just say "oil"? Gee, I wonder what use third worlders could have for that. 7. With Saddam gone the U.S. government can pull troops out of Saudi Arabia without looking wimpy. Having American troops in Saudi Arabia (which houses the holiest sites of Islam) is one of the main reasons that Muslims hate the U.S. What you're saying is that 3,000 people died because the U.S. government didn't want to look wimpy. Good one, Randal! 8. The Middle East is notorious for inspiring cultures that respect power. By taking out a blatantly hostile leader, we send a message to the Middle East in general??Don?t mess with us?. Even Babel Fish couldn't dilute the imperialism of such a statement. 1. The North Koreans have artillery aimed at Seoul. Hundreds of thousands of civilians would be killed instantly if North Korea let loose with these guns. Oh it's alot more economic than that, Randal... It is a ?dumbfounding phenomena?? You still refuse to acknowledge that there are many Muslims in the world who hate the U.S. You refuse to acknowledge that some of these Muslims make efforts to kill American citizens. Not only is 9/11 an obvious example, but there are more examples: The Los Angeles International Airport bombing plot A man named Ahmed Ressam, an Algerian living in Canada, planned to bomb Los Angeles International Airport in Los Angeles, California, United States. He was arrested at the United States-Canada border in Port Angeles, Washington after crossing by ferry on December 14, 1999. Customs officials then found nitroglycerin and four timing devices concealed in a spare tire well of his automobile. He and three other Algerians stood trial for the crime. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_millennium_attack_plots 1993 World Trade Center Bombing A Kuwaiti man named Ramzi Yousef began in 1991 to plan a bombing attack within the United States. Six people were killed. At least 1,040 others were injured. However, the towers were not destroyed as Yousef envisioned. Yousef escaped to Pakistan several hours later. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_bombing Alot of people hate America, Randal. The vast majority of Europeans, libertarians, liberals, etc. scattered through out the world hate the United States of America. Much of the planet is definately not ont he side of the United States. Are they with the terrorists, Randal? Because you express sympathy and support for them. You seem to have many of the same basic beliefs. You also seem to be an apologist that refuses to even seriously examine or condemn the rampant extremism that is prevalent amongst Arabs and Muslims. I do not express sympathy and support for them. They are frankly just as rigid and stupid as the Christian fundamentalists who cheerlead the invasion of Iraq. I am a Libertarian. I believe the rights of the individual. I believe that law abiding Muslims and Arabs owe shit all to whatever state they live in. Furthermore, you foolishly mentioned "Arabs" in that statement. Do you what people are called who attempt to link a criminal problem to a race? Racists, Randal!!! Nice Freudian slip. What?s wrong? Can?t debate intelligently and you need to resort to insults? People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Randal. --------------------
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Phred Fred's son Registered: 10/18/00 Posts: 12,949 Loc: Dominican Republ Last seen: 9 years, 3 months |
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While you two are going at it hammer and tongs, let me toss in a few comments:
Zahid writes: How many Islamic extremists are there, Mr. Statician? More than enough to make Muslim countries the largest current producers of murdering terrorists by at least an order of magnitude. Why do most people in other countries that have been hit by Al Qaeda don't share your views? Perhaps because most of the people in those other countries (Spain excluded) are Muslims themselves? And what does Syria, a wild card dictatorship like many others outside the Muslim world - have to do with the Muslim religion per say? Why do you call it a "wild card"? Name for us the Muslim countries run by elected leaders (and no, Iran doesn't count), then compare that number to the number of Muslim countries run by unelected leaders. If it is the norm, it can't simultaneously be a "wild card". Are you saying that Muslims somehow "create" terrorists? Who is doing the creating here? Are you saying terrorists have no free will because their culture/religion created them? I can't speak for Randall, but I will say Muslims do indeed create terrorists. Bi0 agrees with me on that one as well -- probably the only thing we do agree on. Some of that intelligence was a downright fraud - i.e., the uranium claim regarding Niger. So sorry, Zahid, but the uranium claim turned out to be true after all. Both the US Senate Intelligence Report and the English Commission looking into the same thing found that Joe Wilson's claims were in fact the fraudulent ones. Iraqi agents had bought uranium ore from Niger pre-Gulf War I (which no one disputed) and did attempt to buy it again. Look it up. Ah I see. Punish the people for their ruler. No... liberate them from that ruler. Then why invade the dozen other dictatorships around the world. I presume you meant to ask, "Why not invade the dozen other dictatorships around the world." Are you advocating the invasion of every (there isn't a dozen, there are several dozen) dictatorship in the world by a coalition of nations, then? If so, why are you upset that Iraq was the first on the list? If not, what's your point? What you're saying is that 3,000 people died because the U.S. government didn't want to look wimpy. No, 3,000 Americans died because Islamic murderers exhibited poor impulse control. Alot of people hate America, Randal. The vast majority of Europeans, libertarians, liberals, etc. scattered through out the world hate the United States of America. This is true. And (again speaking for myself rather than Randall) I literally couldn't give two shits that they do. Let them hate all they want. It's when they start acting out that hate through murdering civilians that I have a problem. The ones doing that are overwhelmingly Muslim. I do not express sympathy and support for them. Not this week, no. You have in the past. Nor have you condemned them. If you want people to believe you are actually neutral on the issue you'll have to do some long distance hypnosis of the readers of your posts. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Randal. I haven't seen Randall insult you in this thread. I have seen you insult him. You've been here long enough to know that's against forum rules. Clean up your act or stop posting in this thread, please. Next flame I see -- from anyone in this thread -- will result in a ban. Phred --------------------
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zappaisgod horrid asshole  Registered: 02/11/04 Posts: 81,741 Loc: Fractallife's gy Last seen: 7 years, 10 months |
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Quote: April 8, 2005 http://abcnews.go.com/Internatio Quote: Meth tweaker???? What the fuck are you going on about? Fuck Yusuf anyway. He left under his own volition and had nothing good to say about the nation that made him wealthy. He has no "right of return" and if you and he don't like it, well, I don't give a shit. He can spend the rest of his days anywhere he is welcome. That isn't here. He has renounced his citizenship and I say to him and any others who choose to do so, "Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out." I don't think we need anybody else who fucks animals here either. We have enough perverts already. -------------------- 
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BanJankri FreefallerUpward  Registered: 07/27/04 Posts: 1,392 Last seen: 16 years, 16 days |
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yes you are.
-------------------- Just let everything flow, just flow right to the center of everything. You gotta turn off your mind and relax, and then just float downstream...
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newuser1492 Registered: 06/12/03 Posts: 3,104 |
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Quote: Quote: Certainly looks like a flame to me.
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zappaisgod horrid asshole Registered: 02/11/04 Posts: 81,741 Loc: Fractallife's gy Last seen: 7 years, 10 months |
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Doesn't look like a flame to me. Why do you feel the need to be a snitch? Or is that a flame too?
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SWEDEN Miracle of Science  Registered: 10/25/04 Posts: 2,577 Loc: PNW Last seen: 6 years, 10 months |
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short and to the point, and bitingly sarcastic... just like his deity
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: How has the media misled me? These ample terrorist attacks by Muslims did happen. This causes me to be concerned. How is that being misled? Quote: I only want to torture people who involve themselves in the planning or execution of terrorist attacks against civilians. They deserve it. Quote: What propaganda campaign? Extremist Muslims HAVE committed numerous and bloody attacks against civilians. This is the blatant truth. Extremism and sympathy for extremism is prevalent in the ranks of Muslims. This is the blatant truth. It is not propaganda. Do you want to see propaganda? Go look at the Arab press. Quote: I?m sure he is quite intelligent and informed. That doesn?t change the fact that he has vowed to attack my country and my fellow citizens. Quote: Yes, I am. Quote: When it comes to terrorists who have killed or planned to kill innocent people, I think much worse things should happen to them than what happened at Abu Graihb and Guantanamo. Quote: I would not abolish democracy. I would not abolish the right for American citizens to vote or to have civil rights. However, I would abolish human rights for terrorists.
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: I have no clue. There are obviously a lot considering the ample people who went through Al Qaeda camps and the multitudes of Islamic extremist terrorist attacks that have occurred around the world in recent years. Quote: I have no clue. I don?t give a shit what they think. I care about what I think. If they are not concerned or angry at all that extremist Muslims intentionally slaughtered several hundred of their fellow innocent civilians (in the Madrid train bombing), then that is their business. Quote: Syria is full of Muslims and the Syrian government supports Hezbollah (an Islamic terrorist organization). Quote: How can you separate them? Every major attack on Americans in recent years has been by Muslims. Extremist Muslims have committed intentional attacks on civilians all over the world with a high frequency. And I accuse you of having sympathy for them because you do and it is obvious. Quote: They seem to. Quote: You obviously have not paid very close attention to my post history. I don?t blindly revere my government. I criticize it all of the time and I disagree with most of the things that it does. Quote: I never said I wanted all of the tenets of McCarthyism enacted. I think Muslims should be watched. I think the more extreme Muslims should be very closely scrutinized. And, I think that Muslims who have planned or acted out violence against innocent American civilians should be tortured and killed. Quote: Because Saudi Arabia has a bunch of oil. Quote: Because the possible geo-political payoffs for an Iraq invasion were much higher. Quote: That is part of my hypothesis. I never said I agreed with it. Quote: It?s not the Europeans, the libertarians, and the liberals who are scheming to kill American civilians. It is the extremist Muslims. These other groups may hate the U.S., but it is the Muslims who seem to be more vitriolic and apt to engage in terrorism. Quote: Arabs are for the most part Muslim and they are the most prevalent race in the Middle East.
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newuser1492 Registered: 06/12/03 Posts: 3,104 |
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Ample?
I only want to torture people who involve themselves in the planning or execution of terrorist attacks against civilians. They deserve it. So why do you consistently use Muslims and Arabs? That dosen?t change the fact that he has vowed to attack my country and my fellow citizens. As of 1999 when had he affirmed that vow? I think much worse things should happen to them than what happened at Abu Graihb and Guantanamo. Do you believe you would feel satisfied if that occurred?
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Psychoactive1984 PositiveCynicist Registered: 02/06/05 Posts: 3,546 Loc: California, Mont |
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RandalFlagg , I have skimmed through most of this thread, so you might've already addressed this question;
What do you define a terrorist as? I'm nearly certain that however you define it, it will be more then applicable to some of the USA's actions, especially in respects to the many actions that we have violated in accordance with the Geneva convention. I'm not anti-us or anything.. but really, we aren't exactly innocent. (Yes, I'm a U.S. citizen, in case you're concerned with someone of foreign birth being critical about your governments actions) -------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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BanJankri FreefallerUpward Registered: 07/27/04 Posts: 1,392 Last seen: 16 years, 16 days |
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your a typical stereotyped U.S citizen showing ignorance all throughout this thread. I would have expected more. open your eyes and read some stuff other than Huntington is the only advice I can give you. just so you know, there are many interpretations of Islam and yes there is islamist extremists advocating the use of violence against the injustices that is in this group. by saying i don't trust any of you or your religion isn't a very constructive approach.
-------------------- Just let everything flow, just flow right to the center of everything. You gotta turn off your mind and relax, and then just float downstream... Edited by BanJankri (04/10/05 07:33 PM)
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Psychoactive1984 PositiveCynicist Registered: 02/06/05 Posts: 3,546 Loc: California, Mont |
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Whoooaa!!!Let's not stereotype people... you don't hear us talking about typical Canadian's (with the exception of OTD of course).
Their isn't more a sense of a typical American, then their is a sense of a typical Canadian. That's not exactly a very constructive approach either. -------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: Because they seem to be the ones most likely to engage in terrorist attacks. Because they seem to spawn so many terrorists, I think it is acceptable to be wary of the Muslim religion and the Arab ethnic group. Quote: Yes.
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: Somebody who intentionally targets innocent civilians. Quote: If you had read the thread more closely you would have seen that I criticize American foreign policy. That doesn't change the simple and obvious fact that there are Muslims out there trying to kill American citizens and I have every right to be on guard against them.
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: I disagree. I view myself as a non-interventionist but wary American citizen who realizes the threats that my country faces. Quote: I don't care if it is constructive or not. It is how I view things.
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newuser1492 Registered: 06/12/03 Posts: 3,104 |
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Because they seem to be the ones most likely to engage in terrorist attacks. Because they seem to spawn so many terrorists, I think it is acceptable to be wary of the Muslim religion and the Arab ethnic group.
So by that rational can I say Jew CEO whenever I talk about US owned media organizations? Genetics do not determine a person's personality. Yes. At exactly what extent of torture would you feel satisfied. Would that remain the same throughout all the terrorists tortured? Would you feel as satisfied with the first person tortured as the last person tortured. How does that rectify the situation? Is torture constructive?
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Psychoactive1984 PositiveCynicist Registered: 02/06/05 Posts: 3,546 Loc: California, Mont |
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Quote: 1) Abu Ghraib... don't hold the collective belief on a country/minority/group in respects to it's whole. I can post numerous other examples, but I'm sure you're aware of them. 2) Yeah, I have since read more of this thread. You've every right to be cautious and to be on gaurd against them... as do they us for similar reasons. Their is another simple fact as well... Americans are attempting to kill muslims, who aren't even "terrorists" they have every right equally to fear us. -------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: The proclivity for Jewish people to head corporations doesn't concern me. It doesn't affect me. The fact that the vast majority of terrorist attacks against civilians are perpetrated by Muslims (especially Arab Muslims) does concern me. This does affect me because they are trying to kill Americans. Quote: When they experience horrific pain and suffering. Quote: It punishes those that have transgressed and it deters others from acting in the same way.
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newuser1492 Registered: 06/12/03 Posts: 3,104 |
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You've every right to be cautious and to be on gaurd against them...
Hmm you do however government has not right to legislate against any group.
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Psychoactive1984 PositiveCynicist Registered: 02/06/05 Posts: 3,546 Loc: California, Mont |
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Wasn't suggesting anything to the contrary.
-------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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Psychoactive1984 PositiveCynicist Registered: 02/06/05 Posts: 3,546 Loc: California, Mont |
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Quote: 1) Extreme opinion.2) So does martial law, I dunno if you feel that it is justified though. -------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: If the people abused and tortured at Abu Ghraib deserved it, then I don't feel bad. If they didn't deserve it, then the American soldiers that committed the abuse should be punished severely. Quote: Thank you! That's all I wanted to get across. I have every right to be wary of them and they definately have a right to be wary of the U.S.
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: Huh?
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newuser1492 Registered: 06/12/03 Posts: 3,104 |
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Thank you! That's all I wanted to get across.
No it's not since you affirm mob action against Muslims. I completely support your advocation of increased awareness of Muslims. I don't agree with it but I support it, as long as it doesn't differentiate legally between Caucasian American's and any other race. I honestly observe Black's more carefully when they're around me but I'll be damned if I'll support any legislation against their entire race.
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Psychoactive1984 PositiveCynicist Registered: 02/06/05 Posts: 3,546 Loc: California, Mont |
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I wonder who will give their collective apology first... USA, or the Muslims (terrorists)
I doubt either will as their both as right as they're wrong. Let the bloodbath continue. -------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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Psychoactive1984 PositiveCynicist Registered: 02/06/05 Posts: 3,546 Loc: California, Mont |
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Quote: My point is.... that nobody deserves this, nor would suggest that this is good policy, (unless you buy the whole story fed to us, by the same powers that be that mislead us into this stupid ass war to begin with) as it's only going to further exacerbate the situation. It's all profit oriented, and on the basis of allocation of resources, we can turn this into an ideological battle, as it sounds good with the regional demographics... but it is anything but. -------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: I affirm mob action against terrible scumbags who murder innocent people. I don't care what religion or ethnicity they are. It's just that most of the people doing it happen to be Muslims.
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newuser1492 Registered: 06/12/03 Posts: 3,104 |
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Quote: Thus by your post you assume most Muslims to be scumbags who murder innocent people. It's important to understand that every human needs to be judged independently.
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Psychoactive1984 PositiveCynicist Registered: 02/06/05 Posts: 3,546 Loc: California, Mont |
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Quote: 
-------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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BanJankri FreefallerUpward Registered: 07/27/04 Posts: 1,392 Last seen: 16 years, 16 days |
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Quote: I didnt stereotype, I'm just pointing out that the views expressed are those of a stereotyped american. theres a difference. I'm not a canadian(actually I also am a citizen of the U.S) but coming from a european and middle eastern background. anyways my simple point was there was too much ignorence going on in this thread, and i'm currently shocked at the defense of torture 
-------------------- Just let everything flow, just flow right to the center of everything. You gotta turn off your mind and relax, and then just float downstream...
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looner2 ABBA fan  Registered: 06/20/04 Posts: 3,849 |
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Finally someone that acknowledges the power struggle that humanity will ALWAYS be in and embraces the means to come out on top. I am with you Randleflagg, although using the word "facist" is just setting up your ideas to be shot down.
Hitler had one thing correct, he had a vision of securing the world for his nation and protecting his people for as long as possible. A noble goal and he should be honored for attempting it. -------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth 
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BanJankri FreefallerUpward Registered: 07/27/04 Posts: 1,392 Last seen: 16 years, 16 days |
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-------------------- Just let everything flow, just flow right to the center of everything. You gotta turn off your mind and relax, and then just float downstream...
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Psychoactive1984 PositiveCynicist Registered: 02/06/05 Posts: 3,546 Loc: California, Mont |
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Aye looner2!!! All nations should attempt to obliterate one another and seek planetary domination!
That will better the situation, truly a noble goal worth pursuing... Do you have a bumpersticker on your car that says "I support war", that doesn't make reference to any particular war, as long as it's war for ones country? Yeah... don't forget how necessary eliminating all the jews were to his nations security  ... Hitler was a genius with stupid ass beliefs, that contributed to not only his demise, but his countries... I see a possible parallel in the making.. however, I won't make it.
-------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: You are not listening to me. I don't think most Muslims are scumbags. However, I think there is enough extremism in the ranks of Islam that it makes me concerned about Muslims in general.
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looner2 ABBA fan Registered: 06/20/04 Posts: 3,849 |
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All nations should attempt to obliterate one another and seek planetary domination!
Ones that have the opportunity to, yes. I wouldn't suggest Nigeria to attempt such an action. That will better the situation, truly a noble goal worth pursuing... Do you have a bumpersticker on your car that says "I support war", that doesn't make reference to any particular war, as long as it's war for ones country? I don't support the Iraq war because I think its counter-effective to real enemies out there that could do much greater harm. I am pro-war when the situation warrants it, like 99% of people living in reality. Yeah... don't forget how necessary eliminating all the jews were to his nations security ... Hitler was a genius with stupid ass beliefs, that contributed to not only his demise, but his countries... I see a possible parallel in the making.. however, I won't make it. I never said one thing about the jews. I said Hitler had ONE thing correct. Go back to my old post to read what that one thing was. -------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: Stereotyped American? I think you mean "stereotypical American". Quote: Because I am wary of a religion and a group of people....that means I am full of ignorance? I disagree. Quote: I am of the opinion that when you deal with savages, you have to be savage.
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Psychoactive1984 PositiveCynicist Registered: 02/06/05 Posts: 3,546 Loc: California, Mont |
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Quote: 1) funny, either way, I don't agree with you.2) What real enemies? We're at the top, nothing poses a threat to America in any form... we can pretend it does if believing the hype that we're under attack and dominate or be dominated salestactic works for you... but in all seriousness, their is no threat whatsoever, A vast majority of the population is relatively unaffected by all the "terrorists" attempting to thwart our government, and kill our babies and all that jazz... Now, go to Iraq and look how those people live... Do a little bit of roleplaying, If you were an Iraqi citizen, are mislead by a group of individuals, an armed force is inhabiting your country, and they've beat and raped some individuals that weren't guilty of jack shit to name a few how would you feel about being occupied? Apply that to the USA, and your current lifestyle, it's not an easy transition, their handling the situation very well if you're ask me. All and all their is no real threat with the exception of wearing out coined terminology, and making the population bored of certain colors in way of our national color coding threat system. You can say it is a result of our tougher stance on security and all that shit... but in reality, we aren't any safer then we were before the act, our stricter laws only makes it seem that way. It's relatively easy to sell fear, Hitler did the same thing in regards to Jewish prominance in his society, and the fear that they were out to destroy the motherland. 3) You implied it, that was one of his methods in which he conned a nation into believing his power-driven ideology. Further, it helped him to secure his nation. -------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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Psychoactive1984 PositiveCynicist Registered: 02/06/05 Posts: 3,546 Loc: California, Mont |
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Quote: Making you (as a country) savages, to be dealt with savagely by savages who will be dealt with by savages savagely.... need I continue? That leads nowhere. -------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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zahudulallah Sexual Heretic Registered: 10/20/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 18 years, 10 months |
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You've been on my back ever since I started posting in PAL again - who are you anyway? I have no idea who you are, and yet you are calling me by Zahid, my maiden name so to speak.
I have not flamed Randal ONCE. Speaking to someone in a condescending and arrogant tone is not flaming. If it was, our old friend LDS would have faced many hardships in expressing himself  If I had flamed him, pinky would have been on my arse like white on rice. Just relax
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Edited by zahudulallah (04/11/05 01:58 AM)
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: He is Pinky. He changed his name. Quote: 
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zahudulallah Sexual Heretic Registered: 10/20/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 18 years, 10 months |
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Ah, ok.
I hope you enjoyed our spirited sword fight with words. You're still wrong though, because narrow-inquisition style mentalities are always proven wrong by history. 
--------------------
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BanJankri FreefallerUpward Registered: 07/27/04 Posts: 1,392 Last seen: 16 years, 16 days |
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Yep I guess your right thats what I meant, excuse my english, it isnt all that good.
I am calling you ignorent because: Quote: why are you necesarily torturing and killing muslims that raises their hands up the U.S? Should the others have the right to torture and kill the Americans if it continues its policies in the middle east? I dont see anyone other than the extremist muslims you talk about saying that. Your putting yourself in the same shoes as them. Also remember the curusades? remember the millions of people killing and forcefully converted? so is it only common for extremist muslims to engage in violance? I am in the opinion that if you think you are so much different from them, and a country that is pressing for human rights, you dont have the right to be savage with the savages. you dont have the right to put members of al qaeda in the middle of new york for them to get beaten to death, you dont have the right to torture the prisoners, regardless of whether they had links to a terrorist organization or not. remember you are not a terrorist organization, you are a state. International relations have developed so much since the dark ages and what your suggesting is a return to those times, with states being barbarous against the "barbarians". nationalism generally leads people to irrationality and you are letting your emotions get in front of logic. as much as you say you dont hate all and only the extremist ones, you are then saying I'm on my guard against muslims, that muslims are all potential terrorists. you certainly have islamphobia, plain and simple. zahudulallah has generally pointed out your flaws about the muslim issue so I'm not going to repeat the debate once more. -------------------- Just let everything flow, just flow right to the center of everything. You gotta turn off your mind and relax, and then just float downstream...
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butterflydawn lucid dreamer Registered: 01/25/04 Posts: 1,921 Loc: lost at sea Last seen: 24 days, 16 hours |
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Quote: what the...
-------------------- lucidal expansion
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Asante Omnicyclion prophet Registered: 02/06/02 Posts: 87,330 |
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Quote: You started the thread with: Am I a Fascist? I can't discern that because I lack a few statements characteristic of the definition of Fascism, even though the rest of the criteria are firmly established. Are you a racist? Even though you are of the opinion that there is such a thing as an Arab Race (would that be black or asian?) technically they mostly belong to the white race and since you extend it to others who are not of middle-eastern descent, there are many things in your thread that are arguably racist-extremist, but I can not apply that term positively. Are you a psychopath/sociopath as defined by DSM IV? Probably not. Some of your statements in other threads pretty much rule that out. Then what are you? Dangerous. If a leader of a nation held and acted upon the convictions you just vented, then by your own definitions he should be put to gruesome death. Suppose you swapped the words in your posting. Suppose every time you said "American" we swap that for Middle-Eastern and vice versa, and let's suppose we live in Iraq and consider the US invasion as "trespassing on private property for the purpose of killing scores of thousands of men, women and children and city-bombing" Let's say that you, as that simple Iraqi farmer who has seen the torn-off limbs of his loved ones rotting all around the place, consider that war a terrorist act which killed scores of thousands of civilians who were not government officials. If you swapped the notion of who is the terrorist, then you are a political extremist, a "Capitalist fundamentalist" who unfolds his plans for murder, indiscriminate xenophobic violence and torture in a public place gripped by the delusion that he is Justified to such an extent that he cannot imagine to be wrong. If you want to see a fundamentalist extremist, take a long hard look at your post. If a nation is led by a person who has that degree of radicalism in his rethoric and policy then it is arguably the duty of the people of that nation to remove that leader from office themselves by any means effective, preferably through nonviolent means. That should've been done to Saddam in the first place. The army and people of Iraq should've removed Saddam from power and then scores of thousands of people would not have been killed. In fact: the US could've selectively taken Saddam out, by dropping a MOAB on his beanie when his satellite-visible 100 man escort was taking him from A to B. But.. they chose to kill scores of thousands of people who were not active part of the regime. Randalflagg, you can supply statements such as "I think much worse things should happen to them than what happened at Abu Graihb and Guantanamo." and justify them with a thousand statements like: "I don?t give a shit what they think. I care about what I think." but you have made up your mind and will not be swayed by discussion to the contrary. We don't -have- to argue with you. All we have to do as human beings and/or americans is to make sure you never become president, and if you do, to remove you from office by any means effective, preferably nonviolent. .
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: I don?t think it is racist to examine a certain group that has proclivities for certain behaviors and then modify your own behavior accordingly. Quote: I?ll agree with that. Quote: And I have said a million times that I can understand why Muslims and Arabs hate the U.S. The U.S. has done some shitty things in that part of the world. I realize that a lot of them are angry at us and some of them want to kill us. What is wrong with acknowledging that and taking precautions? Quote: I?ll admit my stance is extreme. I only advocate such horrific punishments for people who are obviously guilty of engaging in despicable acts. For example, when a convicted child molester is released into the general population of a prison and he is raped and killed, I will shed no tears for him. Quote: True. Quote: Don?t worry. My past is not stellar enough to qualify me for the presidency. I have about 50 times more skeletons in my closet than G. W. Bush ever had. Imagine how nuts the press would go if they found out I post on the Shroomery.
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: I think anybody that engages in despicable acts should face terrible punishment?whether they are Muslim or not. In this day and age, Muslims are the ones that are most likely to engage in terrorist attacks against civilians. Quote: No. But American soldiers and officials are fair game. Quote: A thousand years ago there was rampant Christian extremism. Today there is rampant Islamic extremism. I am not concerned about the past. I am concerned about the present. Quote: You can?t have ?relations? and conversations with people who operate in the shadows and who have vowed to attack and destroy you. Quote: I think I am operating with logic. I think it is logical to punish people who do terrible things to you. Quote: I have a heightened state of awareness when it comes to Muslims and the Muslim world in general. This wariness is based upon things I have already listed. And when Zahudulallah says, ?I hate a lot of American culture? do you think he has ?Americaphobia??
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zahudulallah Sexual Heretic Registered: 10/20/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 18 years, 10 months |
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Anti-Americanism is a euphemism is Anti-Right wing extremism
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stefan work in progress Registered: 04/11/01 Posts: 8,932 Loc: The Netherlands Last seen: 3 years, 6 months |
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Quote:There are waaay more innocent civilian people killed in the US because people have the right to own guns, and therefor also happen to use them, than because of muslim/other group terrorist actions. That is probably the biggest threat to 'your fellow citizens'.
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Phred Fred's son Registered: 10/18/00 Posts: 12,949 Loc: Dominican Republ Last seen: 9 years, 3 months |
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And there are way more innocent civilian people killed in the US because Americans are allowed to own knives. And pantyhose. And cars, for that matter. What's your point?
This thread isn't about which weapons individual Americans choose to use when they decide to murder each other, it's about the proper attitude to hold towards Islamic terrorists. Phred --------------------
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zahudulallah Sexual Heretic Registered: 10/20/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 18 years, 10 months |
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What about Chechen terrorists
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stefan work in progress Registered: 04/11/01 Posts: 8,932 Loc: The Netherlands Last seen: 3 years, 6 months |
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Quote: smartass so you're trying to say here that americans murder each other a lot regardless if they have guns or not? don't think so. This is a debate that no one wins though; like we have seen in other threads so lets not bring it up again. My mistake for bringing it up. I know what this thread is about, it's not just about islamic terrorists, but also about killing innocent people and the threat that they face.
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Asante Omnicyclion prophet Registered: 02/06/02 Posts: 87,330 |
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Quote: I thought it was about determining whether Randalflagg was a racist. MOD FIGHT! The proper attitude to hold towards Islamic terrorists. Hmm, lessee.. Cooperating with the UN/international community is mandatory ofcourse, just like it is with all other UN members. Capture the terrorists and put them through the justice system just as you would with any terrorist, lessay like it was done with the Oklahoma City Bombing. (except the part where the entire US was hunting Arabs when in fact it was a white supremacist who was responsible) There's no need to bend the law away from democracy, the law always has been just fine as long as it is being enforced. Cooperate with the UN in regard to interventions in international affairs. If the rest of the world is opposed to one nation invading another, the rest of the world will probably have good reasons for that The Islamic part has nothing to do with the terrorism. Terrorism is terrorism. By putting heavy emphasis on the Islamic part you alienate muslims and if you then barge into your country... They might just attach a fuse to one of your unexploded munitions, bury it in the middle of the road and patiently await anything American to set it off under. And there you have yet another "terrorist attack". That's what we Europeans did with the Germans in WW II. If Iraq invaded the US then that's what you as a US citizen would want to do too. Imagine this scenario: Saddam's presidential escort is halted in the middle of the desert and by dropping a smart bomb from high altitude to their left and right are intimidated to surrender. You then seize Saddam, put him to justice (life in a supermax prison) and dismantle the Iraqi military apparatus using the strategy of intimidation in favor of indiscriminately dropping kilotons of BLUs from airplanes. The people of Iraq would breakdance and do the moonwalk in the streets for having the dictatorship lifted without civilian casualties. Iraqi soldiers and terrorist suicide bombers are minions, you have to realize that. It's the leaders you're after not the peons. Once the people of Iraq see the US is not the raging all-devouring bloodthirty hog Saddam's propaganda machine made the US to look, they'll merrily liberate their own country and allow a bit of international meddling in their affairs. As a result the oppressed people of other Middle East nations would wake up & smell the coffee and liberate their own country, aided by UN hardware like England supplied hardware to La R?sistance in WW2 France. But the US has proven itself to be just as bloodthirsty as Saddam's propaganda claimed. They have torn the country to shreds like Saddam said they would. And now all sorts of warlords (who would STFU if they saw a massive people's revolution backed by UN hardware) are coming out of the woodwork and you've got a Vietnam-like political shambles, putting them from a dictatorship into a Civil War that kicked off with scores of 1000s of casualties. The way to topple dictatorships is, as an international community, to disarm the enemy's propaganda and show them the better life they can live. Work towards a revolution and back it with hardware. If the Iraqi resistance needs a bridge destroyed to gain leverage over the army, do a flyby to clear it and then a second to drop a smart bomb. And get real on Israel. There should be action to ensure Iran or like regimes do not gain nuclear capability. Not that they would ever use it against the US like the stateless Bin Laden would. Iran has ten major cities that will be flattened on the day they use the bomb on a US city. Bin Laden has no such vulnerable sitting-duck targets. How do you flush out terrorist orgs like Al Quaida? Easy as pie! You make them *really* unpopular with the local population, and you do that in the same way and in fact the same operation, that topples the extremist regimes with unprecedented defense of the population, who are more hostages of their dictator then the rest of the world is. How did Gandhi win India's independance? Through the goodness and inherent Justness of his actions. America should adopt the charming ways of Gandhi, not the blitzkrieg brute force of Hitler. Call me a pussy, but charming the local populations whilst being highly persuasive in removing the rogue leaders is the ONLY way to win in the battle against Middle-Eastern terrorism. You can't fight fire with fire, bombs with bombers, or radicals with radicalism, what you want to achieve is that the local Imam spits out his mint tea and screams: "They did WHAT?!" in amused disbelief rather then thundering outrage which in his local, nonpolitical point of view probably is justified. The people of the Middle East and the US should be made aware that they are the brotherhood of man, duped by the powers that be. The Iraqi (or any) people are.. People. They (or you) ere not the Devil! Young Americans and Iraqis can hang out together, go to the park to smoke some primo hydro and hasheesh, teaching eachother the workings of gravity bongs and hookahs! You can actually chill together , discuss stuff and bitch about your governments, and both sides will have alot to bitch about. The biggest mistake here and everywhere is that the PEOPLE of the US and Iraq were at war: They were the REGIMES, using propaganda to anger and excite the people. If the Iraqi's of a given village knew you were cool you could hang out there, sip mint tea and hookah away over a laid-back political debate (a long standing tradition in the Arabic world, that combination) and help some less fortunate of them to put the roofs back on their houses. People are people, Christian, Islamic OR atheist! . Edited by Asante (04/12/05 05:12 AM)
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: The biggest killer of American citizens is heart disease. Guns are third or fourth on the list I believe. Guns actually serve a purpose though. I am willing to put up with the deaths of some people if it means that these valuable tools remain legal. I am also willing to put up with the deaths caused by automobiles (which are many) if it means that they remain legal to use. Guns and automobiles have redeeming qualities. Terrorists do not. Also, the possible death toll from a terrorist attack could be massive.
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Asante Omnicyclion prophet Registered: 02/06/02 Posts: 87,330 |
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Quote: Some time ago the following happened: A couple of terrorists broke into the Peoples Registry of Amsterdam. They took all the files and folders and threw them on a big heap. Then they put a timed firebomb on top of it and left. At night the Peoples Registry burned to the ground and there was a huge organisational mess which led to near insurmountable problems in the relocation of illegal citizens. This terrorist firebomb hit at the heart of Dutch government. Guess what: they're national heroes. The "Dutch Government" was overtaken by the Nazis. The "relocation of illegal citizens" were Jew deportations to Auschwitz. The "Terrorists" as the nazis called them were Freedom Fighters, at least that's how we Dutch see it. In the same manner many people of Iraq have viewed the US Army as an invasion army, like nazi's out to kill and steal their land/oil. What makes a terrorist? Were the Japanese Kamikaze pilots terrorists? They were suicide bombers, but locally regarded as heroes giving their life for the fatherland. It's not so simple as you put it. You are willing to put up with the death of many for what you think is right, like you said throughout this thread, but are you susceptible to the notion that violence births violence? If you, to literally quote you, "smear (guilty) muslims with pig's grease, put them in a cage to be torn by dogs, then dismember them with a chainsaw and send the videotapes of it to Al Jazeera" you will not instill fear but outrage. You would send swarms of new terrorists (who would be farmers had your madness not angered them into radicalism) directly to the USA for the porpose of unhinging your nation. Then what? Nuke their major cities? Oook, now the whole Arab World is breathing fallout and invades Europe, making France and England launch a nuclear counterstrike. Now what? Oh right, the terrorists use nervegas on public gatherings foreign and domestic and farters will be shot on sight. CONGRATULATIONS! You have set the world on fire! Terrorists are everywhere, you've got several megadeath of casualties and nuclear fallout raining down on the world from the Jetstream, the Middle East is at war, all out HOLY war, with the West, Europe is DIRELY pissed off because half of Europe is occupied by armies and the other half is bombed to shite by terrorists, and all because you thought it appropriate to "smear (guilty) muslims with pig's grease, put them in a cage to be torn by dogs, then dismember them with a chainsaw and send the videotapes of it to Al Jazeera". If you are pissed off it's great to bitch and say the most horrible things, but you're doing it on the Internet and playing every bit the "uncivilized american swine" the propaganda claims Americans to be. Your post may be cut & pasted into some fundamentalist forum to aggrevate their anger. The Internet is a public place so you may actually add to the problem. Quote: If you get your way the number of terrorist attacks and death toll WILL be massive. If a martian came to planet earth and charged you with a baseballbat you would give him a facefull of buckshot to defend yourself. You do NOT go to Mars to create one enormous gorefest of carnage and bloodshed to prevent the likelyiness that they one day might come to earth to harm you. It's the same with thugs in the neigborhood. It's the same with terrorist organisations and your country. A country is a sitting duck. Go the Gandhi way. Meeting violence with violence only works if you drive it to the point of genociding all who disagree off of this earth. Now I know you don't want to go that far so please reconsider your thought that violence is the answer. The people of the Middle East need a hug, not a bomb The dictators and terrorists however need a hefty kick in the nuts and to be hauled off to the international peace court of The Hague, or to Washington if they committed terrorism on US soil. Violence never was the answer. You've got Jesus and.. well that guy that convicted him. You've got Gandhi and.. well whoever was in charge of England. See?
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: Burning some files and a building is not terrorism. Killing innocent civilians is. Quote: Attacking soldiers is acceptable. Targeting civilians is not. When an American soldier is killed, I am saddened. But at the same time, they are soldiers and should expect violence to be directed towards them. Quote: Somebody who intentionally targets innocent civilians. Quote: Guns serve a purpose. A terrorist killing women and children serves no purpose. Quote: I think it would instill more fear than outrage. Quote: They are already radical and I think extreme torture would dissuade them. Quote: No. Too many innocents would be killed in such an action. Quote: You call me uncivilized for wanting to punish people who intentionally try to kill innocent civilians? What about the terrorists themselves? Are they uncivilized? I only advocate torture for obviously guilty people. Quote: Who ever said I "wanted to go to Mars"? I have said repeatedly that the U.S. should disengage from the Middle East. As far as "giving the invading Martian a facefull of buckshot", that's exactly what I want to do. Quote: Well, at least you think that.
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zahudulallah Sexual Heretic Registered: 10/20/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 18 years, 10 months |
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You have an inquisitor's mentality Randal, which is what people in this thread are taking issue with.
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Asante Omnicyclion prophet Registered: 02/06/02 Posts: 87,330 |
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Quote: Isn't torture supposed to be a way to find out if someone is guilty? Oh well I guess it can be a form of punishment too if you abandon all civilization. Quote: How about indiscriminately dropping 2.000 lbs Dumb Bombs (BLUs) on residential areas of Baghdad? would that be terrorism? It levels an entire city block like a truck bomb would. How would you react to a nation who has dropped tens of thousands of truckbombs onto residential areas of Iraqi cities and who developed 20.000 lbs bombs to search for weapons of mass destruction? Bush has killed scores of thousands of innocent civilians, yet you are not going to say he should have a tweezer sac epilation for that. No sirree, killing tens of thousdands of civilians indiscriminately is no terrorism when Bush does it! Then it's "preventive war" Imagine Saddam dropping tens of thousands of bombs on New York City, levelling manhattan, in a preventive war to prevent US attack? Precisely what the US did, but reversed. That doesnt instill fear but hate, doesnt it? Can you please detail what you will do to terrorists some more please? I'm feeling like I've got a free front row seat at Jerry Springer
Edited by Asante (04/12/05 11:14 AM)
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: I advocate torture as punishment for reprehensible people, not as a normal interrogation technique. I think very low level coercion (sleep deprivation, bad food, sensory deprivation, etc..) can be used against suspects if the case is serious (a terrorist plot to kill innocent civilians for example). Quote: I have never heard of the U.S. military having a policy of indiscriminately doing anything. If some U.S. official or soldier advocated intentionally killing innocent people, I would be clamoring for his head. Quote: I think Bush should be taken to a hostile Arab country and dropped off in the downtown of a city (much like I think should happen to Khalid Sheik Mohammed). He has done much damage to the U.S., to foreign people, and to American soldiers.
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Asante Omnicyclion prophet Registered: 02/06/02 Posts: 87,330 |
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Quote: Quote: If you are dropping Dumb Bombs on restidential areas then killing innocent civilians is policy. Bombs blast structures apart and rip people to shreds at a given distance from the point where they drop. That's indiscriminate. In fact children rip apart more readily then adults. A Dumb Bomb is thrown and falls in a certain radius which is rather large. If you are dropping Dumb Bombs on residential areas then you are indiscriminately killing civilians, innocent civilians in fact easier than the guilty ones, because the guilty ones got concrete bunkers while the innocent barely have nothing sturdy to hide under. Bomb fragments, especially of the big BLUs, are lethal at one mile distance, making a BLU potentially lethal in a two mile radius. Flyrock (think cubic feet of cemented bricks) easily flies 1/2 mile as lethal projectiles, that's a 1 mile radius. The USA has dropped 10.000s of those in Iraqi cities. And I'm not even touching the topic of cluster bombs, which are among the main munitions used. Visit the Federation of American Scientists to familiarize yourself with the effects of weapons of war and you'll get some idea about what went down on Bush's orders. It wasn't advocated, it was carried out deliberately though. Quote: Removing him from office and delivering him to international justice would suffice. There's no need for street justice in international affairs. He is a greater enemy of your freedom than any terrorist could ever be. And to pull open a can of terrorism: NORAD stood down for almost 2 hours on sept 11, 2001. They intercepted anything perfectly in their history, but all the hijacked planes were allowed to fly, even hitting *the pentagon*. Conspiracy nut or not, what is up with a slow-flying known hijacked airliner flying to, reaching and crashing into the Pentagon? A fuckup of that magnitude is near impossible if the US Armed Forces could have carried out their tasks unobstructed. We are all opposed to terrorism, we just differ in the way we believe it should be handled. I believe in being a shining light of moral justness, you believe in casting a pitch black shadow of being the most cruel of all countries. I don't think we can resolve this. .
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Phred Fred's son Registered: 10/18/00 Posts: 12,949 Loc: Dominican Republ Last seen: 9 years, 3 months |
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Wiccan_Seeker writes:
Quote: You first claimed it was done indiscriminately. I would like to see a credible source showing how many dumb bombs were dropped on Baghdad in 2003. I would then like to see a credible source showing the few (if any) which were dropped were dropped at random. Quote: Credible source, please. And by the way, this has nothing to do with the topic of the thread. Phred --------------------
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zahudulallah Sexual Heretic Registered: 10/20/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 18 years, 10 months |
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What source do you have insurgents target indiscriminately
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zappaisgod horrid asshole Registered: 02/11/04 Posts: 81,741 Loc: Fractallife's gy Last seen: 7 years, 10 months |
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You're right. They are not indiscriminate. They deliberately target schools and hospitals.
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zappaisgod horrid asshole Registered: 02/11/04 Posts: 81,741 Loc: Fractallife's gy Last seen: 7 years, 10 months |
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The more you stick up for these people the more you put the lie to your assertion that you are merely a peaceloving Muslim dog fucker.
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: Do you not remember the link I posted that detailed a Shiite funeral procession being bombed? I think over 80 people were killed.
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Silversoul Rhizome  Registered: 01/01/05 Posts: 23,576 Loc: The Barricades |
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Quote: Were the perpetrators Shiites? -------------------- 
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Were the perpetrators Shiites? Doubtful. I think Zarqawi's group took credit for it.
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Silversoul Rhizome Registered: 01/01/05 Posts: 23,576 Loc: The Barricades |
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Quote: Then I wouldn't call that targeting indiscriminately. Just because they're not targeting Americans doesn't make it indiscriminate. --------------------
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RandalFlagg Stranger Registered: 06/15/02 Posts: 15,608 |
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Quote: Ok, let me rephrase that. They targeted innocent civilians. I have heard of some indiscriminate attacks as well (some market bombings and such). Edited by RandalFlagg (04/12/05 09:04 PM)
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zahudulallah Sexual Heretic Registered: 10/20/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 18 years, 10 months |
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When have Iraqi insurgents ever targetted schools or hospitals?
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zahudulallah Sexual Heretic Registered: 10/20/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 18 years, 10 months |
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Quote: See: PAL Forum Rules --------------------
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zahudulallah Sexual Heretic Registered: 10/20/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 18 years, 10 months |
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If a Shiite funeral was bombed, that means the attack was discriminate
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zappaisgod horrid asshole Registered: 02/11/04 Posts: 81,741 Loc: Fractallife's gy Last seen: 7 years, 10 months |
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Quote: See thread "should people have the right to have sex with animals" You said repeatedly and specificly that you fucked a dog. I might've kept that particular little bit of indiscretion under my hat if I had been you. Never mind. Calling you a dog fucker is no more of a flame than calling you a Muslim. (OOOOOOH that felt good, I mean real good). --------------------
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zahudulallah Sexual Heretic Registered: 10/20/04 Posts: 10,579 Loc: Tokyo, Japan Last seen: 18 years, 10 months |
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I prefer the term "Dog Lover"
GRR --------------------
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