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OfflineFrappy
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Registered: 09/17/04
Posts: 1,280
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Privatization of Social Security Pros and Cons
    #4019829 - 04/06/05 01:55 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I have to do an argumentative speech for class on the benefits of Bush's plan to privatize social security. I'm not very well informed on the topic, (too busy with school and work for the news) but feel free to discuss it so I can learn a little bit and maybe it will give me ideas on what aspects of the debate I should be looking for research on. I'm intereted in hearing both sides, but I have to speak about the Pros of Privatization of Social Security.

So, what do you think?


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
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Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
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Re: Privatization of Social Security Pros and Cons [Re: Frappy]
    #4020105 - 04/06/05 03:29 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

~do your own homework. :tongue:

Bring up something you have concerns with, and which way your leaning, and I'll help you slant it.

Is the basis on you opinion; if not, do you choose to make it? Or is it for pure argumentative/debate purposes?

Give us some insights about your thoughts, might be a good starting point, however general they are. I could write the paper for you... but I'll stick to the old tedious/pretentious adages about how fullfilling it is to do something on your on.

http://www.aarp.org/sk/ss2.html

http://www.nasi.org/publications3901/publications_list.htm?cat_id=77

http://www.sscommonsense.org/

http://www.arkansasleader.com/2005/03/editorial-second-unit-pushes-social.html

http://www.socsec.org/publications.asp

These should be more then adequate, cut and paste.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineFrappy
Strange

Registered: 09/17/04
Posts: 1,280
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Privatization of Social Security Pros and Cons [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4020214 - 04/06/05 04:09 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I'm not asking anyone to do my homework for me. The assignment is to do a speech purely for argumentative/debate purposes for a college speech class. In fact, I don't think anyone really could do the work for me. All I will be able to use is a basic outline, then speak about the topic using the outline only to keep myself on track. We're being graded on delivery, not content, but I need a little information before I can get started. Obviously I didn't pick the topic, one that I know little about.

I did some googling before I made the post and most of what I found was way too technical. I'm trying to avoid using a lot of big words and acronyms since they won't hold the class' attention long.

Mainly I'm looking for some points of interest to cover. Some reasons why Bush's plan for Privatization of SS is a good idea.

I was hoping that people would have a debate here, which would give me an idea of where the speech may be headed so I can prepare my rebuttal, etc.. Thanks in advance.


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OfflineAhronZombi
AhronZombi

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 1,265
Loc: NY
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
Re: Privatization of Social Security Pros and Cons [Re: Frappy]
    #4020225 - 04/06/05 04:14 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Lets for get arguments over politics and government all together. lets unite and stop government and religion all together and rely on spirituality to sustane us. stop using the main stream and government as a security blanket and reson to argue. love fuck and be merry


--------------------
[url=http://kratom.tcotu.net Low Priced, High Quality Kratom[/url]


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Privatization of Social Security Pros and Cons [Re: AhronZombi]
    #4020244 - 04/06/05 04:23 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

... Yeah, loving and fucking and being marry helped get us into this situation into the SS situation in the first place. That and a poor infrastructure who's funding wasn't allocated and closed off from other programs... (Baby boomers and SS)


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineFrappy
Strange

Registered: 09/17/04
Posts: 1,280
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Privatization of Social Security Pros and Cons [Re: Frappy]
    #4020248 - 04/06/05 04:25 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Basically what I've learned so far is that Privatization of Social Security is a plan that will allow you to invest your social security, hopefully allowing you to earn a higher return than the 1% interest people are earning now.

This would pump a huge amount of money into our stock market, strengthening the economy and possibly create new jobs etc..

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I remember reading that privatization will be optional, so the opponents of the new social security plan would be able to stick with the current social security plan... which is failing miserably.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
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Re: Privatization of Social Security Pros and Cons [Re: Frappy]
    #4020253 - 04/06/05 04:27 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

:yesnod:

Questions:

1) how long is the speech supposed to be?
2) how versed in the subject is your audience?
3) How broken down do you want it?
4) Going to need to use some of those links anyhow, speech teachers are anal and want "authority" to back up your suggestions.
5) Anything else I'd need to know regarding the framework?
6) might want to take a sensus asking some general questions of your class members provided you have the time so you don't have to bore them with what they already know, and ask some questions regarding political affiliation to gather what your audience is more inclined to do (if you want to, it'll earn you brownie points :tongue:)


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAhronZombi
AhronZombi

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 1,265
Loc: NY
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
Re: Privatization of Social Security Pros and Cons [Re: Frappy]
    #4020257 - 04/06/05 04:30 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

money = controll not wealth
stock market = crooks
forget SS and government all together
we dont need it, the only people that need government are the fat cats at the top that depend on it to contol us

it was the new deal now bush it turning it into the sour deal. privatizeing only makes rich people gain money. money is controlled by government anyway, if they want the market to crash it will. if they want SS to fail it will. thanks to the Fedral reserve america went broke a long time ago


--------------------
[url=http://kratom.tcotu.net Low Priced, High Quality Kratom[/url]


Edited by AhronZombi (04/06/05 04:33 AM)


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Privatization of Social Security Pros and Cons [Re: Frappy]
    #4020259 - 04/06/05 04:31 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I asked how you feel about it because... anything can be slanted one way or the other... all depends on your inclination.

If you want an easy report with little in way of our help... go to some elected representatives websites and/or party sites and take their little shpeel, and throw in a touch of authority, everyone will be none the wiser. All depends on if you do it for the grade, or if you give the speech on your opinion.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Privatization of Social Security Pros and Cons [Re: Frappy]
    #4020261 - 04/06/05 04:32 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I'll give you a quick run down:

Social Security is a program that gives a check every month to retirees, disabled people, and survivors. Every person who works has a certain percentage taken out of their paycheck up until about $80,000 or so. Any money earned over that amount is not taxed for Social Security.

Social Security collects about $600 billion a year. So far, Social Security has been running surpluses, i.e. it takes in more money than it pays out. The surpluses will end in 2017 or 2018. After that, the expenses will be more than the revenues. The only way that Social Security can continue to pay out all of its promised payments is if it cashes in its assets and spends that money. Unfortunately, all of Social Security's assets are in U.S. federal government bonds. A federal government bond is when you give the federal government money and the government promises to pay you back plus interest. The government then takes your money and spends it.

So, all of Social Security's assets are a bunch of IOU's with no actual cash backing them up. If the already deeply in debt federal government manages to pay back all of those bonds, Social Security will run out of money in 2042. In that year, Social Security will go from being able to pay 100% of promised benefits to 70 some percent (again...this is only if the federal government pays Social Security back).

So, the younger generation is going to get screwed if Social Security stays as it is. We will pay the normal payroll taxes, we will pay the federal income taxes that will go towards paying back all of the IOU's, and we will not get full Social Security benefits because the most of the money will be spent by the time we retire. The Democrats are pretending there is no problem when there is.

Bush is proposing privatization. His plan basically calls for younger workers being able to divert some of their Social Security payroll taxes into private accounts. However, the federal government will have to borrow even more money to make up for less money going into the main Social Security account. When the younger workers retire, they will get to have access to all of the money accumulated in that private account. But, at the same time we will receive less in the normal Social Security benefits. Bush's plan is going to be very expensive and it might not work that well.

There it is in a nutshell. Basically....no matter what happens, we are fucked.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Privatization of Social Security Pros and Cons [Re: AhronZombi]
    #4020262 - 04/06/05 04:33 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Go live in Antartica for a week with no Government and let me know how you fair.

no money, no crooks, no SS, and sure as hell no governnment their for you... let pure and complete and utter anarchy reign...

Get back to me when you've come to your senses.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineAhronZombi
AhronZombi

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 1,265
Loc: NY
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
Re: Privatization of Social Security Pros and Cons [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4020263 - 04/06/05 04:34 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

No matter what happens its all gonna be OK, because love will save us all


--------------------
[url=http://kratom.tcotu.net Low Priced, High Quality Kratom[/url]


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OfflineAhronZombi
AhronZombi

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 1,265
Loc: NY
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
Re: Privatization of Social Security Pros and Cons [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4020265 - 04/06/05 04:36 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

No government would be great. all we need is love and familys. and i dont support anarchy. Anarchists are groups setup by the government to make a better way of life look like chaos


--------------------
[url=http://kratom.tcotu.net Low Priced, High Quality Kratom[/url]


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
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Re: Privatization of Social Security Pros and Cons [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4020270 - 04/06/05 04:40 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Throw in some ad lib, some conjecture against the mainstream proposal. Don't keep it so dry, gesture, smile, use open body language, don't pace, and further what you should do is maintain eye contact...

I recently got out of a speech class didn't take my own advice and got a good grade :shrug:

The content of the speech is more important then the physicality associated with conveying it.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Privatization of Social Security Pros and Cons [Re: AhronZombi]
    #4020274 - 04/06/05 04:41 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Start a new thread on the glory of the love government...

Love didn't save us from WW1, didn't save us from WW2, nor shall it save us from WW3....

Management of a country, and control of those that would mislead will save us... not love.

Start a new thread detailing your beliefs and the benefits of it, talking about love and SS certainly isn't going to write his paper.

He could of course tell everyone that all SS needs is a little bit of love... somehow I doubt his teacher will appreciate that.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAhronZombi
AhronZombi

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 1,265
Loc: NY
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
Re: Privatization of Social Security Pros and Cons [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4020287 - 04/06/05 04:47 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

love is saving many of us every day, but unfortunitly for most if its not focused on in the news its not happening


--------------------
[url=http://kratom.tcotu.net Low Priced, High Quality Kratom[/url]


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OfflineFrappy
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Re: Privatization of Social Security Pros and Cons [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4020290 - 04/06/05 04:50 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
:yesnod:

Questions:

1) how long is the speech supposed to be?
2) how versed in the subject is your audience?
3) How broken down do you want it?
4) Going to need to use some of those links anyhow, speech teachers are anal and want "authority" to back up your suggestions.
5) Anything else I'd need to know regarding the framework?
6) might want to take a sensus asking some general questions of your class members provided you have the time so you don't have to bore them with what they already know, and ask some questions regarding political affiliation to gather what your audience is more inclined to do (if you want to, it'll earn you brownie points :tongue:)




1. Each part is like 3-5 minutes?  Something like that, not very long. See number 5.

2. The audience is mostly as clueless or more clueless as me on this subject.  The teacher however probably knows the topic inside and out sice he picked it.

3. It needs to be pretty general considering the time frame.  Like I said, we're getting graded mostly on how well we deliver the speech. Broken down to maybe 3-5 key points, but we also have to be prepred to respond to the other groups rebuttals.

4. Yes, we need to cite sources in our speech to build credibility.

5. Yeah, this is the important part.  This is actually a group project.  I'm in a group of 5 (not so bright) students.  We have to argue the issue with another group of 5 other students.  The format is something like this (i don't have my notes with me, this is from memory.  I can fix it tomorrow)

Group 1 is Pro-Privatization
Group 2 is Against Privatization

Group 1 - open
Group 2 - open
Group 1 - argumentation
Group 2 - rebuttal
Group 2 - argumentation
Group 1 - rebuttal
Group 1 - close
Group 2 - close

Each group member gets a part. For example 1 person does the opening for the Pro-Privatization. There may be another rebuttal/argumentation in there to account for each group member getting a part.  We have not yet decided who gets which part as most of our group was absent today.  Speech isn't due for 2 weeks.

6. There won't be time to ask the audience much more than a rhetorical question, however our teacher likes us to open with an "Attention Getter" which could be a 1) question 2) emotional story 3) startling fact or statistic 4) something similar that would get your attention from the start.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Privatization of Social Security Pros and Cons [Re: AhronZombi]
    #4020298 - 04/06/05 04:55 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Love is subjective... I love coffee, and I love smokes... now why would I love something that can kill me? What's the logic?

It's the feeling I associate with it, tobacco caries numerous negative connotations for others :shrug:.

Love hasn't worked, go to S&P, it's great in theory, but not in actuality.

Perhaps all our president needs to do is to love the other countries of the world, and we all need to embrace each other and not to fight over limited resources like animals do...

Perhaps you need to realize that we are in fact animals, except we are better at achiving our results.

Something needs to be done, alternatives to energy among one of the most prominant things, as food isn't really an issue in a developed country with how much we squander.

But, love in this case... is not the answer.

Perhaps unity, and all attempting to achieve the same end result... but technology, and more so greed is holding us back in that respect... if you can explain, and devise a method for its dispersal; in which love can conquer the notion that one man is more important then another, and more to the point that a nation of people is higher then another, then we're still chasing our tails.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineAhronZombi
AhronZombi

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 1,265
Loc: NY
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
Re: Privatization of Social Security Pros and Cons [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4020303 - 04/06/05 04:57 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

you simplifiy love too much. and if you love somthing so much it kills you, whys it matter? you were happy. and once your dead so is your mind, and the mind is the only thing that fears death. so their is really truely no reson to avoid death, the only thing that will die is your contious mind. you will live on through love


--------------------
[url=http://kratom.tcotu.net Low Priced, High Quality Kratom[/url]


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Privatization of Social Security Pros and Cons [Re: Frappy]
    #4020308 - 04/06/05 04:58 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Attention getter: Your all fucked when your older, continue to watch MTV and not focus on issues that will affect you when your older.
(cut and paste it so it works with the tone of your message of course)

Post more on the specifics tomorrow/later-today. I'm going to go watch a movie, 2am now.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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