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Invisibleflowstone
blustering

Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 6,485
Loc: precious
sway or nay
    #4015726 - 04/05/05 04:33 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Do you as a harness-er of consciousness, have the power to sway things one way or back? Does your active mental input effect things such as luck, courage, or healing?
For example: Perhaps prayer works sometimes because one or a million people all contribute positive thought for whatever the cause is and the recipient is open to positive outside energy, 'hearing the blessings' of sorts, and reaping the benefits.
And what of the man who prays not to die as he takes his last breath?
This brings up the question of personal sway: the amount of positive or negative vibes and global exponential consciousness awareness they posses.

So can it go both ways? Can outside negative influence affect a person the same way a positive one can?

For example: Perhaps malice works sometimes because one or a million people wish ill in their mind towards a cause, person, or thing. These types of thoughts create a force just as 'real' as the positive kind, and can be seemingly forced on others or yourself if the sway is strong enough.


Why do I classify things as either good or bad? Because that is all I can see.
Surrounding and basking in positive only leads to more good things and more developed mindset able to weed out and overcome said negative forces, making you less open to the negative vibes and bringing about an aura of positive sway.
Surrounding and basking in negative only leads to more malice and a mind more easily succumbed to the ways of evil and the passive degrading of self and others, bringing about an aura of negative sway.

The way I see it, the more I harness and understand the universal capability of my mind, body and soul in its positive manner, the more I will reap the benefits. The more I lurk in the shadows, giving way to harmful habits and time wasted, the more I will reap of the same.


--------------------
these long agonizing months without you...have been long and agonizing..
"War Doesn't Decide Who's Right... It Only Decides Who's Left."


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Offlinenubious
1up on the rest

Registered: 10/20/02
Posts: 534
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
Re: sway or nay [Re: flowstone]
    #4015858 - 04/05/05 05:50 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Do you as a harness-er of consciousness, have the power to sway things one way or back? Does your active mental input effect things such as luck, courage, or healing?




Absolutely would be the answer the first part of your 4 part question. As a harness-er of consciousness, human beings affect their surroundings on an infinitely complex level causing butterfly effects throughout all of existance. If you perceive thought as the "harnessing" of consciousness, and you believe that we have the ability to choose (free will), then yes - we definately have the power to sway things one way or another.
As for 'active mental input' affecting things like luck, courage, or healing - let me answer that in 3 parts:

"Luck" - more of a label to explain a fortunate event happening to ones self - a result of any number of factors ending up in a certain point in time where one might be feeling more than normal joy, happiness, excitement, or any other desirable emotion / thought pattern/process which would be favorable to normal daily routines.

"Courage" - I see courage as more of a frame of mind - it's more of how you look at a situation. There will always be subconciouss uncontrollable fears which we may not fully understand or may just plain have valid reason for. Only when you understand your fears can you overcome them. I child may be afraid of the dark, but is it because there are monsters under bed or is it subconciously monsters mean bad things and bad things mean pain because at that age the only real bad thing you can udnerstand is pain, and so even though the monsters aren't real, the memory of pain (the only real "bad" thing to associate at that age) is very present. When the same child is older, dark hasn't formed into something less scary. It's simply the childs outlook and understanding of 'dark' that changes.

Healing in terms of biological regeneration I believe is completely controlled by the subconcious. It's been proven over and over that the placebo factor is real. I believe that if we could truly fool ourselves into believing in our ability to heal ourselves it would be that simple. The problem is how many of us can really give into the magic of it all and really believe.


Can it go both ways? Well, some may disagree, but don't neccessarily believe that you can directly use your inner self to negatively affect someone without first projecting your thoughts in some form of communication - be it body language, vocalization, rude gestures, or informational media. When it comes down to it, we only perceive ourselves through our thoughts and our 5 senses - so if you can't sense someones scent or see them or hear what they have to say, then really they can't effect you negatively. I'm not saying an underlying connection DOESN'T exist, but I don't believe it at this point.


As for a million people wishing ill for reasons unjust, it's like a snowball. People respond to things they can relate to, so when 10 people are in a room and have one thing in common, and that one thing is something bad, they feed off each other because that one thing brings them together and gives them a purpose - something seeked in negative situations - a means to justify the wrong one is having to undergo. How does that relate to a snowball? Well it doesn't I guess - but it's generally referred to as the snowball effect - if you can explain that by all means.


If all you can see is good and evil, don't fret - that's the beauty of having morals. Knowing what's right and wrong is something we may have different opinions of, but deep down we can generally agree what's "right" and "wrong" in the overall picture. What makes it difficult in terms of human perception - especially with as many people on the planet as we do, is that when person A gets impacted by a decison person B made 3 months previous (back to that butterfly effect thing) - Person A may respond with what he thinks is right, and he may be right in terms of what he can perceive, but that's the thing - right and wrong are neither true nor false - they're both products of the human mind as a means to explain something we all share and yet don't fully understand.

The bottom line is if you make someone feel good, they'll want to make you feel good. It snowballs into a butterfly effect of positivity that exponentially increases. Do someone harm, and they'll feel the need to do harm to you. It's when you can realise that their harm is just misconception of the truth that you can forgive and give in to the love of that which is real. I know it sounds all mushy and gospel and new age spirituality christian preached "Keep up the good work Jimmy" motto-ish, but it's friggin true!


A SWEET movie to watch if you want to delve into the quantum physics side of intention and positive thinking is that new "What the Bleep do we know" (I think that's what it's called - it may be something close, like "What the bleep...". If you rent / download / go to the theatre and see ONE movie this year (that goes for EVERYone reading this) - make it that movie. (Disclaimer: It's got some super cheasy over the top 3d animated sexual inuendo scenes, but overall it's a well done flick with some interesting takes on reality)



Anyways, I hope that answers your (rhetorical?) questions.

-nub


--------------------
No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: sway or nay [Re: nubious]
    #4018902 - 04/05/05 09:54 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

nothing to add to that. Beatiful. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: sway or nay [Re: flowstone]
    #4019467 - 04/06/05 12:13 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

flowstone said:
1) Do you as a harness-er of consciousness, have the power to sway things one way or back?

2) Does your active mental input effect things such as luck, courage, or healing?

3) And what of the man who prays not to die as he takes his last breath?

4) So can it go both ways? Can outside negative influence affect a person the same way a positive one can?

5) Why do I classify things as either good or bad? Because that is all I can see.





1) I call it motivation.

2) Psychosamatic influence. Yes, mind over matter and one's position on an occurence certainly affect the outcome. That as well as an individual's motivation.

Luck? I wouldn't know, I don't believe in it as a phenomena... rather as result of uncertainty.

Courage? ~Subjective, defined, and determined by the individual who is seen as having such. It could just be everyday normal shit to the person, and thus, not actual abe courage as it were.

3) What of him? Either way he'll be dead. We've no proof other then our faith that we'll be rewarded for being kiss asses in this life and observing practices seen as moral and "correct" in terms of society. I have faith that I'll die and have 72 virgins to shag me all day in heaven....

What of that belief... versus another, either way, both unfounded and based on the heights of idealism... We all experience this when we are younger, talk to a kid, and talk about how they percieve the world and their own future... talk to them when they grow up and if they haven't stagnated... they'll be a bit more weathered in terms of their mentality through the aging process.

4) It can always go both ways... just like people :lol:. But :shrug: some people only see it one way, some see more... that doesn't justify the correctness of it one way or the other.

You'd have to clarify what a negative and a positive influence is before we could dwelve any deeper... beliefs, and influences aren't all perceived the same way.

5) Some people think drugs are evil... some don't... some go schizo as a result of their use... some are infected with greater clarity. It's not the same for everyone.

:shrug: Life is a mindfuck of a game, nothing is right, nothing is wrong, it all just is.

What's moral, and what isn't moral? Their will always be the concept of "SIN" (Strength in numbers) and the majority influences what is determined moral or not... that still doesn't make it correct... It's all subjective.

Is my post in this thread good? Is it bad? Or is it just a post?

Yes.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Offlinenubious
1up on the rest

Registered: 10/20/02
Posts: 534
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
Re: sway or nay [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4020508 - 04/06/05 07:47 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Luck? I wouldn't know, I don't believe in it as a phenomena... rather as result of uncertainty.




So you believe every point in time is a moment of uncertainty?

I can agree, but only uncertain in terms of human recognition - I feel that on a higher level there may be understanding of the workings of our universe, but it's infintely beyond what human perception can make sense, (or not perhaps) - the thing is, we have no way to verify it all.

It boils down to we have to accept the way things are because we can be sure of two things:

We perceive time as liner - This is the whole foundation for cause and effect (matrix flashback)

Our perception of time is no more than human perception - period.
I know I threw that 'perception' word around a lot - but that's something people seem to forget about - everything we know to be true, no matter how re-enforced ultimately is a result of human perception, which (as I'm sure we both know) isn't always accurate - intentional or otherwise.

I'm not saying Luck exists, but the word Luck in itself is no more than a human term to explain a fortunate event - the aspect of planning is something which is generally assumed to be a part of luck, but if we look at like as on observer, we see that the word luck is moreso a period in time whereas one is fortunate... planned by the evolution of the universe in an incomprehensible-to-human plan to serve some greater good on some grander scale.


Who knows.  Fun shit to think about tho', hey?  :laugh::tongue::smirk::grin:


--------------------
No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: sway or nay [Re: nubious]
    #4021011 - 04/06/05 11:51 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

:thumbup:

So you believe that every moment of time is an uncertainty?

Short answer; Yes. Beyond what we know will happen on the basis of who we are as individuals and how we generally act... even then it's uncertain as we all have the choice whether to do something or to abstain from it. Uncertainty is the possibility presented in terms of events, it's the person's decision that determine whether or not something will be fortuante. Not in all cases, especially when dealing with a high level of uncertainty (gambling/lottery).


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Invisibleflowstone
blustering

Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 6,485
Loc: precious
Re: sway or nay [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4023551 - 04/06/05 10:58 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

To Nubious and Psychoactive1984- thanks for the thoughts. +5 for both.. :mushroom2: I need to sit on this for a while before I come to a logical conclusion.


--------------------
these long agonizing months without you...have been long and agonizing..
"War Doesn't Decide Who's Right... It Only Decides Who's Left."


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Offlinehobgoblin
Stranger
Registered: 02/22/05
Posts: 50
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: sway or nay [Re: nubious]
    #4026966 - 04/07/05 05:29 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

nubious said:

The bottom line is if you make someone feel good, they'll want to make you feel good.  It snowballs into a butterfly effect of positivity that exponentially increases.  Do someone harm, and they'll feel the need to do harm to you.  It's when you can realise that their harm is just misconception of the truth that you can forgive and give in to the love of that which is real.  I know it sounds all mushy and gospel and new age spirituality christian preached "Keep up the good work Jimmy" motto-ish, but it's friggin true!




Butterfly effect yes but watch out for the hurricane. :wink:


--------------------
Seek not to rationalize hobgoblins. ~ Yeats


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