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OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
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Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
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Re: Natural vs. Unnatural [Re: Ravus]
    #4236397 - 05/30/05 11:20 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I always say acid is digital and shrooms are analog...

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Invisibleniteowl
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Registered: 07/01/03
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Re: Natural vs. Unnatural [Re: Ravus]
    #4236468 - 05/30/05 11:46 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

So the term "un-natural" has no real meaning? Since everything in the universe is "natural"?

Even the lump of highly radioactive material in nuclear reactors?

How about abnormal?
Does that term more precisely fit the description of these "man-made" things?

Highly radioactive lumps of metal and other "man-made things" are not normal so anything man-made should be considered "abnormal" rather than "un-natural".

Their has to be a term for things man-made. Either un-natural or abnormal. There may be a better term but one of those should work. Things that harm the natural environment around us, IMO, are not natural.

Do you think that burning all the fossil fuels on the planet is a natural thing, just because we did it and we are a part of nature? :rolleyes:

Using the ant/animal analogy is somewhat distorted, since we are the only creature that doesn't live in harmony with our environment.

In that sense we are un-natural/abnormal.

If we continue these abnormal/un-natural ways.....nature will get rid of us.


















....or at least kick us back to the Stone Age  :wink:


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Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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InvisibleRavus
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Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
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Re: Natural vs. Unnatural [Re: niteowl]
    #4236517 - 05/30/05 12:05 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Concepts only have the meanings we give them, but if we question the concept of "unnatural" we see that the existence of something unnatural in a natural universe is impossible.

Humanity cannot violate his natural way of living. We have evolved to be humans as we are now, with all our shortcomings and technology. Nature gave us the potential to create what we have, just like nature gives ants the potential to create anthills under certain conditions, or bees to create nests.

There are radioactive elements occuring completely naturally on this earth. Humans are only following natural processes to create natural elements. The only reason we give radioactive elements such negative connotations is because we realize they're a threat to our survival and so respond by demonizing them, but they do not go against nature in any way.

Those things that harm the environment around us are not natural? What about toxic algae blooms that harm the water? The algae is completely natural and following natural processes. What about when kudzu grows and dominates an area completely, killing off all the surrounding plants? Kudzu is natural, it's just replicating itself and ensuring its survival after all, so what does it matter if it harms the environment around it? In evolution, everything's fair as long as you're the victor.

The truth is that the destruction of the environment around you is a completely natural practice. Many successful organisms, whether it be algae or humans, harm the environment around them, but in doing so help their own survival. In natural selection, harmony doesn't matter, the survival of other species doesn't matter, all that matters is that you and your species survive. It's a constant battle, and just because humans are currently winning it doesn't make us unnatural anymore than it makes any other infesting animals or bacteria or algae unnatural.

We are nature. Humans are completely natural evolved animals, just following their own will to power and survival. All our "unnatural" "man-made" technology is just the manifestation of our natural will to survive, using natural resources around us to build what follows to be natural, animal-created technology.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Natural vs. Unnatural [Re: Ravus]
    #4236539 - 05/30/05 12:16 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

So the term "unnatural" has no meaning?

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Natural vs. Unnatural [Re: newuser1492]
    #4236622 - 05/30/05 12:49 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Let me help you make the distinction

water - natural
carbon - natural
the internal combustion engine - unnatural

uranium - natural
nuclear warheads - unnatural

trees - natural
cutting down half of the amazon rainforest - unnatural

humans - natural
animals - natural
robots - unnatural

marijuana - natural
a futile war on drugs - unnatural

basically if it isn't entirely made by nature, it is unnatural. Not necessarily bad, just unnatural. With technology, it's not so much the technology that matters, it is the intentions that it is used for.


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InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
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Re: Natural vs. Unnatural [Re: niteowl]
    #4236652 - 05/30/05 01:02 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Indeed, unnatural has a meaning, but only that which we, natural organisms, view it as. Don't you find it a bit odd that this concept "unnatural" occurs from an entirely natural organism and an entirely naturally made brain?

Shroomism, I agree, if it isn't made by nature it's unnatural, but are you therefore saying humans are not natural animals and are somehow using resources not made by nature? And if humans are natural animals, how is the technology created by natural animals unnatural? Why do you draw this distinction with humans, but not with other animals?


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Natural vs. Unnatural [Re: Ravus]
    #4236680 - 05/30/05 01:13 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

No that is not what I am saying. We are indeed natural animals.. although it is my belief that our society is far removed from completely natural.. and the resources are indeed made by nature. But we manipulate them to produce a different result, thus making the "thing" unnatural. The people that make it, and the resources used to make them, are natural.. but that doesn't make the "thing" natural, just because it was made by natural beings and natural resources. If nature didn't make it to begin with, it's unnatural. Oranges are natural. Orange juice from concentrate is unnatural. I don't even know what I'm saying anymore. But I'm sure you get my point.

I don't think there's anything at all wrong with something being "unnatural". It is only how we choose to use these things. I could use a natural rock to crack open your face, but that wouldn't be very nice now would it? On the same token I could eat a natural fruit, and it would taste good. Mmm. On the other side of the spectrum you have technology and 'unnatural' things. You can use technology with "good" intentions (like say.. to clean pollution from the ocean) or you can use it with "bad" intentions.. (like say.. weapons to destroy a race).

I mainly draw this distinction with humans, because humans are the most out of sync with the natural world at this time on the planet Earth. Most animals live in harmony with nature, and if they are doing any manipulating to any natural resources, it is on a very small scale. I don't see dolphins making jets and bombs and shit. So I look to humans.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Natural vs. Unnatural [Re: Shroomism]
    #4236851 - 05/30/05 01:59 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

marijuana - natural

Growing marijuana hydroponically under indoor lights - unnatural

Growing shrooms in jars - unnatural

Smoking marijuana - unnatural


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Natural vs. Unnatural [Re: Swami]
    #4236871 - 05/30/05 02:04 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

This is true. And I enjoy all those things :grin:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Natural vs. Unnatural [Re: Shroomism]
    #4237126 - 05/30/05 03:16 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Just a short obvious statement:
'Mind' has mankind made to 'behave/produce' 'unnatural'.
There are many implications in this, which reach into spirituality.

To relativate above statement: Too, mind is that, what can bring us back to naturality again :wink:


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Natural vs. Unnatural [Re: Swami]
    #4238074 - 05/30/05 08:45 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Growing marijuana hydroponically under indoor lights - unnatural

Growing shrooms in jars - unnatura


This is all a mater of arbitrary definition based on where you put the demarcation.

If humans are natural, then human endeavors must also be natural in the same way that leaf-cutter ants cultivating fungi are natural.

Synthetic psilocybin is synthetic (man made), but that doesn't necessarily mean it's not natural.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
Re: Natural vs. Unnatural [Re: Diploid]
    #4238842 - 05/31/05 02:45 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Perhaps it can be seperated into a simple subject/item and an act/action, with also seperating "nature" out of the equation....
.
Subject/item = Natural
.
Act/Action = Unatural (unless it is created "naturally")
.
Where as a natural item like a tree grown from seed naturally falling from a another tree is natural because subject and action were both natural and of nature.... 
.
.
If being naked is considered "natural", but wearing clothes is also considered natural (thru a conditioned perception), then the act of dressing would be the factor that is unatural (even tho~ we consider it "natural" to dress - again, a conditioned perception).... 
.
Eating food is natural, how you choose to do it may be the unatural part....


:sun:


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Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody

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