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OfflineWronguy
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Please critique my casing/fruiting methods (*Pics*)
    #4010464 - 04/03/05 11:34 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Okay, I will be using 3 small tubs inside one large tub. The 3 small tubs will be covered, while the large tub will be filled with a water/h202 mixture. My home rarely gets over 70 degrees so I will used a full submersed water heater to regulate the temperature between 70-78 degrees for pinning/fruiting.

Tub content:
My casing in each of the 3 tubs is as follows:
1. Bottom layer will be 1/2-3/4 inch of pre-sterilized, pre-soaked perlite.
2. Middle layer will be 2-3 crumbled cakes, using the PF Tek method, from 1/2 pint jars.
3. Top layer will be a 50/50 casing mix (likely pre-sterilized vermiculite and peat moss) using a 1:4 ratio of cakes to casing mix.

Process:
Humidity and temp will be checked periodically for consistency, but not so much as to dry out the casing. Patching will be used when needed. CO2 exchange will take place about 2-3 times daily using a plexi-glass type manual fan.

I am using B+ and this is my first attempt at growing. I have no contams in my jars, so I'm at least heading in the right direction. Thanks to you guys of course.

If there is anything that you see that doesn't look right or might be done a little better, please feel free to chime in. Thank you in advance for any help you folks can offer.

I'm sorry about how the photos came over. I guess I didn't attach them right.











Edited by augustin7 (04/03/05 11:52 PM)


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InvisibleCrasher
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Re: Please critique my casing/fruiting methods (*Pics*) [Re: Wronguy]
    #4010501 - 04/03/05 11:41 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

It sounds great in theory, and the operation looks good..How are you going to prevent light from causing pinning on the sides of your casing? Those are all transparent containers.


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InvisibleHolydiver
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Re: Please critique my casing/fruiting methods (*Pics*) [Re: Wronguy]
    #4010509 - 04/03/05 11:44 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Hey Wronguy,

Looks pretty good to me. Few things: Why the perlite bottom layer? I'd go with 1/2" of wet verm before perlite. Also, any plans to cover up the bottoms of your containers? You don't want to leave them clear like that.


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Edited by Diver (04/03/05 11:55 PM)


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OfflineWronguy
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Re: Please critique my casing/fruiting methods (*Pics*) [Re: Crasher]
    #4010510 - 04/03/05 11:45 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

A lot of the pics that I've seen from other growers, ie: Hawkseye, are using transparent containers. I guess the answer is I won't be able to. Any suggestions? Others have done this just fine though. Haven't they?


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Re: Please critique my casing/fruiting methods (*Pics*) [Re: Wronguy]
    #4010520 - 04/03/05 11:47 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

The pictures you saw from the Hawkseye are containers of compost, no casing layer. Pinning on the sides and bottoms is manageable with straight compost, but it's going to give you trouble with casings.


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: Please critique my casing/fruiting methods (*Pics*) [Re: Wronguy]
    #4010521 - 04/03/05 11:47 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Imagine mushies growing on the Bottom on your sub....You'd have to take out the casing and pick them out, it's a big hassle...

Just cover the outside w/ aluminum foil and u'll be alright..

Gl

-Gnostic


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OfflineWronguy
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Re: Please critique my casing/fruiting methods (*Pics*) [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #4010546 - 04/03/05 11:54 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I appreciate the feedback on this one guys. IGnosticAbhorI, should I cover the indvidual tubs with foil or just the big one?


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OfflineWronguy
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Re: Please critique my casing/fruiting methods (*Pics*) [Re: Holydiver]
    #4010558 - 04/03/05 11:57 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Diver, I've heard mixed arguments about using verm for the bottom layer. One such argument is that the mycellium will waste energy trying to colonize that area. On the flip side though the verm doesn't have brown rice flour for food, so I guess I can see your point. Any other reasons not to use verm.

Also, won't the perlite give me the humidity I want or will the casing do that for me?


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Please critique my casing/fruiting methods (*Pics*) [Re: Wronguy]
    #4010598 - 04/04/05 12:05 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I use clear containers all the whining about pinning on the sides. Fuckit I just let em pin and it has improved yeilds by a third make sure you have the casing in a clean area and pickem.


Remember I'm lazy as fucking hell and hate to do work. That's the whole reason I came up with the PMP and others so there is no way I'm gonna be wraping containers in foil. I don't like containers that aren't clear cause it saves time. Think a casing can be contamed with clear containers you can look instead of waiting till the contam gets to the surface.


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Re: Please critique my casing/fruiting methods (*Pics*) [Re: Wronguy]
    #4010599 - 04/04/05 12:05 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Perlite doesn't provide humidity if placed underneath your substrate, it might give your substrate from extra moisture (if that). No, mycelium won't waste energy trying to colonize vermiculte. I've done many bottom casing layers of moist verm with good results.

Casing layer provides humidity for primordia formation (pinheads) via moisture that lands on your casing surface. A few good mistings each day to your casings is all the humidity you'll need. Replacing lost moisture after fanning is very important.


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Re: Please critique my casing/fruiting methods (*Pics*) [Re: Magash]
    #4010624 - 04/04/05 12:10 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Magash said:
I use clear containers all the whining about pinning on the sides. Fuckit I just let em pin and it has improved yeilds by a third make sure you have the casing in a clean area and pickem.





Yeah that's fine for small containers, but try working with 10+ LBS. of colonized horse shit in large containers and having pins all over the place.  Things suddenly become very difficult to maneuver, and one is wishing they put a little extra effort into covering sides of their containers.

As far as increasing yields by a third?  Sorry, but :stonedjerk:


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Please critique my casing/fruiting methods (*Pics*) [Re: Holydiver]
    #4010670 - 04/04/05 12:21 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Well he is talking about smaller containers but I have done bulks in clear containers. Lots of pins wasn't something that I considered a problem. I hear what your saying though but what's a pain in the ass to one isn't to another I guess. To me more shrooms are more shrooms.


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Re: Please critique my casing/fruiting methods (*Pics*) [Re: Magash]
    #4010702 - 04/04/05 12:27 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah fair enough, I've always felt that pinning all over the place detracted from energy that could otherwise be spent on the casing surface.

One too many hours spent picking aborts and pins off the bottoms of HUGE pans of horse poo that I could hardly navigate, never going back to that mess again.

Wronguy  Sorry to jack your thread :smile:


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Re: Please critique my casing/fruiting methods (*Pics*) [Re: Holydiver]
    #4010760 - 04/04/05 12:40 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Nest two (2) clear or semi/clear containers togather with tinfoil between the two - resolves that problem. Is cheap & easy to do, takes no time, nor any extra space.


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OfflinekronnyQ
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Re: Please critique my casing/fruiting methods (*Pics*) [Re: Magash]
    #4011016 - 04/04/05 01:41 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Magash said:
I use clear containers all the whining about pinning on the sides. Fuckit I just let em pin and it has improved yeilds by a third make sure you have the casing in a clean area and pickem.





Hell yea!  :thumbup: :thumbup:

The fattest fatties I get come from the sides.


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OfflineWronguy
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Re: Please critique my casing/fruiting methods (*Pics*) [Re: kronnyQ]
    #4011068 - 04/04/05 01:56 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for all the help fellows. I guess there are some mixed feelings about the whole covered or uncovered issue. This is my first time growing so I guess I'll try a few both ways and see what happens.

Diver, thanks for the tip on verm vs. perlite. I'll use the verm on the bottom. As far as the misting is concerned, I'll definitely mist after fanning to keep the moisture levels up.

I'm assuming that the amount of flushes you get is not the same as the cakes, right? In other words, there is no further preparation for subsequent flushes. Just pick and allow growth to continue vs. the dunk tek for cakes. Once the cake begins to pull from the sides, it's done?

I can't tell you how excited I am about having my own stash here soon. My cakes are approximately 95-100% fully colonized outside so I will wait until the weekend and case them.

Last question. Under optimal conditions, how long before I will see pins and how long after that before I can harvest? Thanks again.


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Please critique my casing/fruiting methods (*Pics*) [Re: Holydiver]
    #4011081 - 04/04/05 02:01 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Well ya got me there. I try to set em on something to keep light from the bottom. I don't mind the sides but the bottom sucks.


--------------------
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:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Please critique my casing/fruiting methods (*Pics*) [Re: Wronguy]
    #4011100 - 04/04/05 02:06 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I would not worry about the clear containers. I have also used containers similar to what you are using without any trouble. One thing you could do, though, is insulate the sides and bottom of the container which will, as a side effect, also cut light from the sides and bottom.

Why insulate the chamber? The reason is because it will help reduce the temperature differential in the water and in the containers. That means the three containers will all be equal in temperature without the two closer to the heater being a lot hotter. It also means you will use less heating period (admittedly this last point is of minor importance since electricity is cheap).

One great pretty inexpensive way to well insulate something like this is to use highly insulating silver bubble wrap one can find at many hardware stores. It's used to cover heating pipes and water heaters to prevent heat loss in chambers holding water. It is probably one of the most insulating materials you can buy. Here's a web site on it:

http://www.radiantbarrier.com/tempshield_double_bubble_double_.htm

Set the entire container on a piece and cover the sides at least up to the water level (go all the way to the top if you can afford it). You could also use a blanket for this purpose, but no blanket can compare to this wrap in the same thickness. You'd need about eight inches of duck feather blankets to equal a 1/4" thick bubble wrap. I personally use this wrap in all tub-in-tub setups I have and it works great.


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OfflineWronguy
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Re: Please critique my casing/fruiting methods (*Pics*) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4011167 - 04/04/05 02:23 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Blue Helix said:
One thing you could do, though, is insulate the sides and bottom of the container which will, as a side effect, also cut light from the sides and bottom.

Why insulate the chamber? The reason is because it will help reduce the temperature differential in the water and in the containers. That means the three containers will all be equal in temperature without the two closer to the heater being a lot hotter.




Do you mean insulate the large tub housing the smaller ones? As far as the heat differential, I don't see that as a problem. My submersible water heater will be sunk with weights and sitting on the bottom of the tub, so no one tub will be getting more heat than the other.

I suppose that the tub sitting directly over the heater might get a bit more heat, but there will still be a few inches of water in separation.

I like your idea for the insulation though. I might use it. Thanks.


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Please critique my casing/fruiting methods (*Pics*) [Re: Wronguy]
    #4011217 - 04/04/05 02:34 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I am talking about insulating the large outter container only. The smaller ones do not need anything.

The tub right over the heater will get substantially hotter than the rest unless the OUTTER tub is well insulated on the bottom. Water is heavy and it will press the large outter container hard against the floor. When it presses hard on the floor heat can more easily transfer into the floor. That could be a huge problem. In my case I was sitting the tub over regular carpet over wood and still noticed a lot of heat loss into the floor.

The heater sensed the cold floor and would stay on longer. I did a test and the area right over the heater got pretty hot. All it takes is a single hot spot to start a big problem. Keep in mind that cubensis mycelium is very delicate and can die in as little as 105F. If the heater is getting cold vibes from the floor and stays on longer as the heat rises up from it, the container directly above the heater will quickly reach well above 105F. That sets the stage for trouble.

At the very LEAST I would put the whole setup on a few blankets. The reflective bubble stuff is better but not required.


Edited by Blue Helix (04/04/05 02:36 AM)


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