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InvisibleRavus
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Diploma Mills
    #4010284 - 04/03/05 11:00 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I'm sure many of you have heard of diploma mills, places where you can just buy any diploma, from an associates to a doctorate, with some money, often just a couple hundred dollars for a PhD. They supposedly use legal loopholes where "private academic universities" can award people a degree (for the right price) for life experience and such. An 18 year old with $180 could become Dr. 18 year old.

And with it, you are awarded some social advantages of being a doctor, like having it on your driver's license and such, which gets you respect (assuming you actually aren't such a ridiculously low age like 18 where people realize something's up.) I'm wondering about the legal issues with these diplomas though. Is it illegal to use this in any way? What if you tried to get a job with a fake doctorate, assuming it's a job that's easy to bullshit like child psychology at a school or such? Of course if your employer hypothetically hired you and found out the school you received your diploma from was a school involved with diploma mills, you'd most likely be immediately terminated, but could you have legal charges brought against you?

I was talking to my brother about this, who says that most likely any employer who found out that you had a fake degree would immediately fire you, in which case this almost seems like it could become a curse when trying to get jobs. And if you were an 18 year old who bought a doctorate, and it appeared on your driver's license, it may also be a curse in that people would constantly suspect that it's fake. Are these possibilities, or could you ignore a degree you've received in the past for your jobs and real life?

And as a cultural reference, didn't Dr. Hunter S. Thompson do something like this? A mail-order degree from a church or such?


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Diploma Mills [Re: Ravus]
    #4010378 - 04/03/05 11:17 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
Is it illegal to use this in any way? What if you tried to get a job with a fake doctorate, assuming it's a job that's easy to bullshit like child psychology at a school or such?





Nope, it isn't illegal. You are allowed to put "I got a Phd from so and so school". Of course, accredited universities are respected much more than some $100 diploma mill school.

Some of those diploma mill schools are very sketchy. They'll take a name that very closely resembles a respected university. For example, I remember seeing one called "LaSalle University Continuing Education Department". This sounds like a program that is run by LaSalle University (an accredited university).

Quote:


Of course if your employer hypothetically hired you and found out the school you received your diploma from was a school involved with diploma mills, you'd most likely be immediately terminated, but could you have legal charges brought against you?




No.


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: Diploma Mills [Re: Ravus]
    #4010405 - 04/03/05 11:22 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I can have Dr. put on my license for $180? I'll do that.


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Diploma Mills [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4010426 - 04/03/05 11:26 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Interesting that it seems to be completely legal, yet more people haven't tried exploiting this loophole of sorts. I'm sure you could use it for some purpose other than trying to hook up with chicks by flashing your credentials.

And after doing some research, I found that Dr. Hunter S. Thompson has a Doctorate in Divinity that he got by mail order during the 60s. I couldn't find what school he got it from, and seeing as it's a mail-order college it doesn't really seem to matter, but it's funny how Thompson is the only one who I've really heard of making these mail order diplomas useful. In Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas the book, he uses his doctorate to get some amyls at the end, and also tends to use the Doctor in front of his name to make him seem fancy when he barely graduated high school.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Diploma Mills [Re: Ravus]
    #4010450 - 04/03/05 11:31 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Just search Instant University Degree into any search page and plenty of websites offering these degrees pop up. I didn't even know these legitimately existed until a while ago when I stumbled upon one and was in profound disbelief that it was that easy to get a fake degree.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: Diploma Mills [Re: Ravus]
    #4010459 - 04/03/05 11:32 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I believe to practise law you have to pass the state bar. Simply getting some mail order diploma does not make you a lawyer. As with the state bar I believe there is a state medical review.


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Diploma Mills [Re: cb9fl]
    #4010481 - 04/03/05 11:37 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

As 99% of our clients use our service because they have neither the time nor the inclination to attend a traditional university, the question of credit transfer is irrelevant anyway. Similarly, certain professions require degrees to have a specific accreditation in order to be used as a professional qualification. i.e. Architecture, Medicine, Nursing, Teaching and Education, Psychology, Psychiatry, Veterinary Science, Dentistry, Social Work. Of course, these kind of degrees are not available from ***




These types of websites only give degrees that really don't matter it seems, for example they wouldn't accredit someone to be a certified medical doctor, but rather they'd have degrees such as doctor of philosophy and such.

That's why Hunter S. Thompson was a doctor of divinity I believe.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Diploma Mills [Re: Ravus]
    #4010494 - 04/03/05 11:40 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)


These types of websites only give degrees that really don't matter it seems

Pretty much.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Diploma Mills [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4010511 - 04/03/05 11:45 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

But what I'm wondering is, despite the fact that they give out degrees that don't matter like doctor of philosophy, divinity, etc., can you actually do anything with them? Can you fake a job with them? Could you accelerate yourself in the workplace using them, such as getting promotions, raises, etc.?

I'm wondering the limitations of these degrees, as they are completely legal and therefore you should hypothetically get all the advantages of a completely legal degree, in which case a simple high school graduate could get a job using these degrees he could not otherwise get. Legally, I see no reason why one couldn't hypothetically do this, especially if the college name sounds like another familiar college name, how could an employer know if he didn't explicity do checks on the college? Couldn't this be an awesome legal scam?


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Diploma Mills [Re: Ravus]
    #4010529 - 04/03/05 11:50 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
Can you fake a job with them? Could you accelerate yourself in the workplace using them, such as getting promotions, raises, etc.?




It matters how stupid and lazy your boss is. Will he investigate the school to see if it is accredited by a recognized board?


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: Diploma Mills [Re: Ravus]
    #4010542 - 04/03/05 11:53 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I have heard of people in government jobs that get these degrees in order to qualify for raises. A lot of times the government pays for the program as well under continuing education benefits. It is a scam on your dime.

I know one bitch that is a "Doctor" for God knows where. She can't even write a complete sentence.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Diploma Mills [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4010544 - 04/03/05 11:54 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Do they usually investigate the school you receive your diploma from? I guess it would depend on the job, but I'm willing to bet you could get by in at least some businesses with a degree from a diploma mill college.

This isn't actual reality, so I don't have a boss who would hypothetically investigate my fake doctorate. I know I'm too young to pass as a doctor anyway, though I could still try, but I'm guessing you'd need to be at least 24 or 25 to spend the years getting a real doctorate.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Diploma Mills [Re: cb9fl]
    #4010628 - 04/04/05 12:10 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

cb9fl said:
I can have Dr. put on my license for $180? I'll do that.



I became a certified minister online for free.


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: Diploma Mills [Re: Silversoul]
    #4010681 - 04/04/05 12:24 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah I did that around five years ago but I want Dr. cb9fl on my license.


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: Diploma Mills [Re: cb9fl]
    #4011088 - 04/04/05 02:04 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I don't need to be a minister. I am fucking Jesus H Christ.


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: Diploma Mills [Re: Ravus]
    #4011158 - 04/04/05 02:21 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
I'm sure many of you have heard of diploma mills, places where you can just buy any diploma, from an associates to a doctorate, with some money, often just a couple hundred dollars for a PhD.



I have a PhD in political science from one of those "schools". I got it for my birthday as a joke.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Diploma Mills [Re: Ravus]
    #4011198 - 04/04/05 02:29 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

go to college


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InvisibleDirtMcgirt
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Re: Diploma Mills [Re: Vvellum]
    #4011703 - 04/04/05 06:30 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

go to college




Yes, go to a state college that is more or less a degree mill +1. They are just as happy to take your money for four years instead of a one time deal-- in the end you'll feel good about yourself though, even though you never learned anything.

These degree mills are just part of the natural slide of the value of a bachelor's degree.


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"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Diploma Mills [Re: DirtMcgirt]
    #4012290 - 04/04/05 12:52 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

certainly a bachelors degree from even a state college is worth 100x more than some obviously worthless "doctorate of philosophy" from Maine University Accelerated Education Department. Would anyone with a brain even put this bogus degree on a resume? I think not. 99.999% of people with a bachelors degree would put that on their resume, however.


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OfflineCyber
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Re: Diploma Mills [Re: Vvellum]
    #4012674 - 04/04/05 02:52 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:
certainly a bachelors degree from even a state college is worth 100x more than some obviously worthless "doctorate of philosophy" from Maine University Accelerated Education Department. Would anyone with a brain even put this bogus degree on a resume? I think not. 99.999% of people with a bachelors degree would put that on their resume, however.




Bio, I think you are wrong!

First, there are 2 different types of diploma mills.

The first type are "Theological Universities" They issue diplomas in Religion, Metaphysics, Philosophy, Biblical studies, etc. Most require some course work (Read a book, take a 10 question test with the book next to you) An example would be the American College of Metaphysical Theology Now these degrees are not worth much. Sure People list them on there resume and most companies look at them as an unrelated degree. meaning they have the same value as a degree in religion from most other religious collages.

The second type is a little more complex. They issue you a degree from a real sounding university. They issue you transcripts to show. Most business (90%) will never check to see if the university exists. They simply take your degree at face value, and accept your transcripts as proof. These degrees tend to run in the $800-$1500 range. The last one I spoke with offered me a bachelors, masters, and a full set of transcripts for $950. They were also honest enough to tell me that 10% to 15% of the companies would not accept the degree.

You seem to be of the idea that the diploma mills would be easy to identify. Try this, which of the following is a fake university? (Note: There is only one that is fake, the others are real)

Tarrant County Junior College
West Texas State University
University of North Texas
North Texas State University

Something that most people do not know is that, in most cases, experience will be taken in place of a degree. For example if you have 5 years in the Computer field, most companies will accept you as having the equivalent of an associates degree. 10 years is considered the equivalent of a bachelors degree and 15 years is considered the equivalent of a masters. This is not uniform but it is common. I have applied and gotten lots of jobs that had "Degree Required" in the listing. I have no degree but I have lots of experience!


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