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Invisibleohmatic
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rez-effect revised
    #4004451 - 04/02/05 12:25 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

ey!

first off, if you never heard about the 'rez-effect' before,
check out Starter's thread here:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1939583/page//fpart/1/vc/1

so basically, its about supplying additional water by using moist verm which
is a great idea in the first place, but thats just the start, you could and
can do so much more using that method.

what about putting additional nutes in the water u use for moistening the
verm, wouldnt that be just even better?

well so i thought when i did my mono-tub project, i used boiled down alc free beer and it worked great, take a look:


here's the thread to the mono-tub project, read there for further information:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...e=0&fpart=1

so, the aim of this thread is to figure out how various nute additions
do if you use the 'nuted' water for moistening the verm.

nute's to be used will be:
boiled straw water
boiled manure water
boiled potatoe water
alc free beer (already did and worked great)

so im going to do various casings using the exact same ammount of
grains and verm, but using different additions for the verm.

i think this is going to turn out quite interesting,
if you got additional ideas for what to use for verm 'nuting',
let me know.
ill keep you guys informed :smile:
peace ohm :mushroom2:


--------------------
:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !


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Offlinekilgore_trout
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Re: rez-effect revised [Re: ohmatic]
    #4004871 - 04/02/05 02:17 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

use an isolated strain and try to give them equal env. conditions to non nuted counterparts or else your method will be flawed and scientifically unreliable.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: rez-effect revised [Re: kilgore_trout] * 1
    #4005019 - 04/02/05 02:58 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I'm still in love with coffee hydration. Soak your verm in it and watch all the invitro fruits pop.
RR


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Re: rez-effect revised [Re: kilgore_trout]
    #4005287 - 04/02/05 04:47 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

kilgore_trout said:
use an isolated strain and try to give them equal env. conditions to non nuted counterparts or else your method will be flawed and scientifically unreliable.




did you really think i didnt mind that?

rodger, no doubt on the invitropowers of coffee, but still invitro is not
the aim of the test so i doubt ill use it.
peace ohm :mushroom2:


--------------------
:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: rez-effect revised [Re: ohmatic]
    #4005448 - 04/02/05 05:27 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I would suggest, as a side experiment...soaking verm in those waters in jars and sterilizing it alone...then knock it up with an agar wedge or something. It would be cool to see which colonizes faster, and to see if any of them would fruit with just nutrient water. I doubt that they would...but if you could even get small fruits (like off agar) off a particular verm casing..you'd have a better idea which would work better when applied to grains/substrate.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Invisibleohmatic
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Re: rez-effect revised [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4005491 - 04/02/05 05:35 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

scatmanrav said:
I would suggest, as a side experiment...soaking verm in those waters in jars and sterilizing it alone...then knock it up with an agar wedge or something. It would be cool to see which colonizes faster, and to see if any of them would fruit with just nutrient water. I doubt that they would...but if you could even get small fruits (like off agar) off a particular verm casing..you'd have a better idea which would work better when applied to grains/substrate.




actually that is a really nice idea and b/c of that ill take back what
i said about the coffee rodger, ill try using its invitro power for
the verm&nutewater experiment.

im going to prepare several very small jars with the nute'd verm (gotta love that term lol)
and mix in a bit of coffee and see if ill get them to do some invitro action :laugh:

i doubt casing it if it manages to colonise fully (which is going to be interesting non the less)
would be off any use, the invitro show should be enuf.
peace ohm :mushroom2:


--------------------
:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: rez-effect revised [Re: ohmatic]
    #4005696 - 04/02/05 06:42 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

nice work ohm!

the rez-effect is definately an amazing technique, starter is the man, and adding nutes to the water is a great addition

i would think the manure water would provide the most nutes, i look forward to your results.


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Invisibleagar
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Re: rez-effect revised [Re: ohmatic]
    #4007776 - 04/03/05 06:47 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Don't mean to rain on the parade..... BUT...follow along, a moment.

Rez-effect with verm saturated in nutriant rich solution, will simply cause that verm to be colonized by myc & become part of the substrate.

What is a "cake' after all, but verm & water with minor amounts of BRF nutes mixed in the solution. Cakes certainly colonize.

I have soaked straight verm in various nutriant laden solutions. It will colonize, just fine - without anything else added.


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Re: rez-effect revised [Re: agar]
    #4007817 - 04/03/05 07:17 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

agar said:
Don't mean to rain on the parade..... BUT...follow along, a moment.

Rez-effect with verm saturated in nutriant rich solution, will simply cause that verm to be colonized by myc & become part of the substrate.

What is a "cake' after all, but verm & water with minor amounts of BRF nutes mixed in the solution. Cakes certainly colonize.

I have soaked straight verm in various nutriant laden solutions. It will colonize, just fine - without anything else added.




jeah agar it will be colonised but take a moment and think again.
b/c of the high water content of the liquid nute solution,
besides supplying additional nutes there will be water supplied along the
way keeping the original rez effect idea up - but throwing in that extra nute power :smile:

in my eyes, i repeat, it could proove to be really usefull :laugh:
peace ohm :mushroom2:


--------------------
:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: rez-effect revised [Re: ohmatic]
    #4007927 - 04/03/05 09:24 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

agar, that IS the point of the rez-effect, is that the verm colonizes and supplies additional water and also extends the quantity of substrate

of course it will colonize just fine?? hes doin an experiment to see if it colonizes better.


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Re: rez-effect revised [Re: fresh313]
    #4007939 - 04/03/05 09:46 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

fresh313 said:
agar, that IS the point of the rez-effect, is that the verm colonizes and supplies additional water and also extends the quantity of substrate

of course it will colonize just fine?? hes doin an experiment to see if it colonizes better.




you misread agar's post in a minor detail,
hes pointing out that originally the rez simply supplies water to the grains that
can be pulled from the verm during fruiting and therefor promoting bigger and healthier fruits.

the deal is, ill try to not only give them water but jet some nutes aswell
to maybe double the use of the verm, by making the mush be even happier :wink:

anyway, i just did step one and simmered peels from 2 kg of potatoes yesterday
on the stove for ~2 hours while watching a dvd and the resulting strained liquid
is looking pretty yellow brownish but does not contain a lot of potatoe mush as
one could expect from the 2hrs simmering

b/c the peels prooved to be way harder to mush up than potatoes and therefor
were exposed to a longer "nute leeching".

itll be documented and photographed a bit later, too lazy atm :wink:
peace ohm :mushroom2:


--------------------
:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !


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Re: rez-effect revised [Re: fresh313]
    #4007982 - 04/03/05 10:30 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

fresh313 said:
agar, that IS the point of the rez-effect, is that the verm colonizes and supplies additional water and also extends the quantity of substrate

of course it will colonize just fine?? hes doin an experiment to see if it colonizes better.




Are you familiar with why 100% fully colonized "cakes" are dunked (submerged) in water for hours at a time, even overnight. It is to rehydrate them. You cannot simply pour water on a "cake" to rehydrate it. Because the water will run off the cake, as fast as you pour it on.

The same holds true for colonized grain substrates. Since it is basically a SOLID BLOCK of grain & mycelium, which does not absorb moisture with any rapidity.

Casing mixtures (top / bottom, or both) are designed to be nonnutritive (intentionally) so they WILL NOT COLONIZE. Because, uncolonized they impart are sponge like, and serve as a reservoir from which the mycelium can draw from at a rate mycelium can absorb moisture naturally - without harming itself.

Are you familiar with OVERLAY, often caused by direct misting, or application of to much water. That is when mycelia die, and form a hide over a substrate protecting it from that excess moisture. There has to be a bridge - between the two that, will serve as a spongy nonnutritive reservoir from which mycelium can draw from at a rate that it can absorb naturally. Otherwise, it dies & overlays.

If a casing mixture (top / bottom, or both) is nutritive, and fully colonized, because it is covered with mycelium like a rain coat, it no longer has the same absorption capacity of uncolonized vermiculite, to hydrate almost instantly. In effect, the bridge doesn't exist.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: rez-effect revised [Re: ohmatic]
    #4008102 - 04/03/05 11:58 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

My theory is you should dunk your cakes between flushes, and fill the reservoir with a thick liquid malt extract from a beer brewing store/website (no vermiculite).

Combining the water and nutes will just dilute it to the point that it will easily contaminate. A thick syrup will be much more difficult to contam, but should still be absorbable by the mycelium.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: rez-effect revised [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #4008127 - 04/03/05 12:09 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

"If a casing mixture (top / bottom, or both) is nutritive, and fully colonized, because it is covered with mycelium like a rain coat, it no longer has the same absorption capacity of uncolonized vermiculite, to hydrate almost instantly. In effect, the bridge doesn't exist. "

Agar...I believe you seem to think the point of the nutrient verm is to apply it to the top or bottom of the casing as a casing layer...the "rez effect" is taking 3 quarts of colonized millet, bird seed, whatever...and 3 quarts of sterile moist verm...then mixing the two all together. If that sterile moist verm, was moistened using nute water..it should help within the substrate..shouldnt it? It doesnt matter if this fully colonizes...it kind of mixes the cake and casing idea...just like a cake...the casing can now be dunked and rehydrated...unlike normal whole grains, if you just cased the 3 quarts of colonized grain, it wouldnt reabsorb moisture very easy.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: rez-effect revised [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4008173 - 04/03/05 12:27 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

scatmanrav said:
"If a casing mixture (top / bottom, or both) is nutritive, and fully colonized, because it is covered with mycelium like a rain coat, it no longer has the same absorption capacity of uncolonized vermiculite, to hydrate almost instantly. In effect, the bridge doesn't exist. "





This has long since been proven not to be a problem, otherwise dunking and the drinking straw tek would not work.

Vermiculite in the rezervoir is pointless.


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Re: rez-effect revised [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #4008209 - 04/03/05 12:47 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Sorry, I disagree. I've dunked whole grains with no verm mixed in...and whole grains mixed half and half with verm when I cased. Dunking the whole grains with no verm in the substrate...does very little. It washes off the old casing, and spores and the substrate absorbs a little moisture...but when I dunk 3 quarts of rye that was mixed with 3 quarts of verm... First, second, and third flush was bigger in the substrate containing 3 quarts of rye and 3 quarts of verm, compared to the casing sitting next to it, with only 3 quarts of rye. There were no more nutes in the casing next to it, yet it still performed better to begin with and rehydrated better. I think had the verm been nutritious, it may have helped even more. It may not...it may cause the verm to colonize fully (instead of just coating it if soaked in plain water?), squeezing the moisture holding ability out of it as agar seems to feel it will...I'm not so sure though.

Sorry theres so much negative reaction to your experiment ohm, I still believe in it :smile: Hmmmm...I just had a though...IF the shrooms do fruit from the verm soaked in nute water...wouldnt they be hydroponic shrooms :smile:


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: rez-effect revised [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4008247 - 04/03/05 01:05 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

You might be right about mixing verm in with the grains, but I still hold that putting verm in the reservoir is pointless.

The mycelium would colonize the verm, but not a hole full of thick syrup.


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Re: rez-effect revised [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #4008293 - 04/03/05 01:22 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

its lovely to see the discussion evolving :smile:
ill weight the potatoe peels and make a pic of the nute water.
peace ohm :mushroom2:


--------------------
:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: rez-effect revised [Re: ohmatic]
    #4008344 - 04/03/05 01:43 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

You might be right about mixing verm in with the grains, but I still hold that putting verm in the reservoir is pointless.

The mycelium would colonize the verm, but not a hole full of thick syrup.
--------------------------------------

You seem to be under the assumption that agar might be...that the rez effect is either a bottom layer of verm, or a top layer of verm.

The link mentions a bottom layer, but the real point in the link and the rez effect is the verm being mixed with the substrate...expanding the water holding ability of something...often done in plant soil (mix soil, verm, and perlite in 1:1:1 ratio ect)...it is not putting a bottom layer, or creating an actual reservior of any sort, its not "creating a reservor" but the "rez effect"..theres a difference.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Edited by scatmanrav (04/03/05 02:26 PM)


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Re: rez-effect revised [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4008359 - 04/03/05 01:53 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Oh, you're right. I was thinking of the reservoir tek.


What I have done there is just float my casings instead of submerging them.


That way the top doesn't get wet, and the casing layer is unaffected.


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