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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Both and Niether
    #4004113 - 04/02/05 09:07 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

For the longest time, I thought that the universe was two things and they were always fighting. Duality consciousness is a tricky illusion. Everywhere I looked, I saw two polar opposites. Sometimes I would exhault one over the other and say: 'this is right and that is wrong'. But the more I looked at both sides of the equation, the more I realized that both sides were right and wrong at the same time.

And I think that is the secret of meditation. Instead of making a choice, you realize that choice is an illusion because its all the same thing. That meditative state is where you are just sitting there doing nothing and everything, watching the universe go by, realizing that any choice you make is just going to take you back to the same place.

maybe confusion is rationality. Maybe the meaning of life is 'I don't know'.

anyway, just something to think about.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: Both and Niether [Re: DoctorJ]
    #4004126 - 04/02/05 09:25 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

yes, passive observation  :thumbup:


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Both and Niether [Re: DoctorJ]
    #4004147 - 04/02/05 09:49 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I never uderstood one thing:

A lot of philosophies that support anti-dualism, and teach that there is no right or wrong, at the same time promote love and compassion
and try to avoid violence and hate..

If there is no right or wrong, does it matter if you are violent or loving? Why should we chose either if it doesn't matter?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleClark
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Re: Both and Niether [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4004159 - 04/02/05 10:03 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
I never uderstood one thing:

A lot of philosophies that support anti-dualism, and teach that there is no right or wrong, at the same time promote love and compassion
and try to avoid violence and hate..

If there is no right or wrong, does it matter if you are violent or loving? Why should we chose either if it doesn't matter?




Presumably because the distinction between "self" and "other" is as illusory as all the other dualities, in which case inflicting harm on another doesn't make any more sense than imposing it on yourself.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Both and Niether [Re: Clark]
    #4004310 - 04/02/05 11:30 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Yea, but then you are back to the concept of right and wrong


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Both and Niether [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4004339 - 04/02/05 11:44 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Wrong.

You get back what you put out.

If hate is your preference, then by all means, hate.

But if you want love and compassion in your life, BE love and compassion.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Both and Niether [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4004958 - 04/02/05 02:43 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
I never uderstood one thing:

A lot of philosophies that support anti-dualism, and teach that there is no right or wrong, at the same time promote love and compassion
and try to avoid violence and hate..

If there is no right or wrong, does it matter if you are violent or loving? Why should we chose either if it doesn't matter?




I think godliness is knowing that you can do anything you want, but choosing to do the right thing. And yes, there is a right thing to do, but its not always the same. 'right' is situationally defined.

go ahead and point out the logical contradictions if you want. its true.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Both and Niether [Re: dorkus]
    #4004999 - 04/02/05 02:52 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

dr_mandelbrot said:
Wrong.

You get back what you put out.

If hate is your preference, then by all means, hate.

But if you want love and compassion in your life, BE love and compassion.




And yet how come nobody opens a thread talking about how hate is the way? this a forum full of "enlightened" people knowing that there is no right and wrong, but most have the same preferences


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Both and Niether [Re: DoctorJ]
    #4005013 - 04/02/05 02:56 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
I never uderstood one thing:

A lot of philosophies that support anti-dualism, and teach that there is no right or wrong, at the same time promote love and compassion
and try to avoid violence and hate..

If there is no right or wrong, does it matter if you are violent or loving? Why should we chose either if it doesn't matter?




I think godliness is knowing that you can do anything you want, but choosing to do the right thing. And yes, there is a right thing to do, but its not always the same. 'right' is situationally defined.

go ahead and point out the logical contradictions if you want. its true.




Well even if it gets changed in different situations, there still is something you "should" do and something you "shouldn't", or at least
a better and worse choice. This is the basis of every morality:
There are things you should do and things you shouldn't in a given situation

I'm still waiting to see a real live sociopat on these forums who actually has no sense morality. All I've seen so far are people who repeat it to death, but still find some pattern to which they can judge.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Edited by OldWoodSpecter (04/02/05 02:57 PM)


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InvisibleClark
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Re: Both and Niether [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4005100 - 04/02/05 03:24 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
I'm still waiting to see a real live sociopath on these forums who actually has no sense morality.




Don't you think Dick Cheney has better things to do than post here?


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Both and Niether [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4005213 - 04/02/05 04:21 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Wood,

Duality separates the one into two so love can be experienced as fear and its derivatives such as hate. When the two come together as one again, there is nothing left to hate or fear is all.

If you fear and hate yourself then you are yet separate in belief from what you are. If you get as far as to see what doc is talking about, you see that love is all there ever was, that it is what you are in Essenes. When you separate yourself from your source Essenes is when you can be in fear and hate yourself.

Duality takes the ONE and then splits IT against itself. That's how the polar opposites appear and come into play.

When people say choose love and compassion, they are reminding you of what being at one with yourself and all is. At one ment --atonement. If you enjoy feeling separate from source and others and being in states of hate and fear then, rock your house. Most people I know of don't prefer it, they just don't know how to get out of it.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Both and Niether [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4005229 - 04/02/05 04:28 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Yes but what you do here is explain origins of morality.
Where did people get the idea to act with love toward each other?
(the answer is in your post)

Lack of morality means that there is absolutley no pattern on which you can act, there are no indications of what is true to yourself and what is not.

You said that if you hate you are separated from what you really are.
But that is the basis of morality and right and wrong.
If there really were no morality, then there is nothing to be
separated from, your nature is determined by your urges at this very moment.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Both and Niether [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4005376 - 04/02/05 05:12 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Have you noticed how different people feel around you when you dwell in different mindstates? All to seldom a day in my life comes by with a burst of happiness. I can't keep that stupid grin off my face, and laugh at everything. When I meet strangers in that condition they really feel like brothers and sisters - all of them, no matter how they act, i just laugh until they start laughing too :smile:

That is when the happy feeling grows on me. I prefer these feelings compared to a feeling of hate, simply because it is more pleasant, much more. It is no built-in laws of morality that causes this, it is those chemicals flooding the system.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Both and Niether [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4005442 - 04/02/05 05:26 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I see what you are saying wood. Hmmmmmm you think to much. I found the further and deeper I go in thought the more difficult it is to carry it all back in tact. Pieces get dropped and lost along the way through translation.  If I go there and come back with it not in tact, I'll open Pandoras Box. I will say, good luck pushing naturally ruled morality over government/religious/man ruled morality.

:cheers:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Both and Niether [Re: dorkus]
    #4005493 - 04/02/05 05:35 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

dr_mandelbrot said:
Have you noticed how different people feel around you when you dwell in different mindstates? All to seldom a day in my life comes by with a burst of happiness. I can't keep that stupid grin off my face, and laugh at everything. When I meet strangers in that condition they really feel like brothers and sisters - all of them, no matter how they act, i just laugh until they start laughing too :smile:

That is when the happy feeling grows on me. I prefer these feelings compared to a feeling of hate, simply because it is more pleasant, much more. It is no built-in laws of morality that causes this, it is those chemicals flooding the system.




But that is where morality came from..

If nobody ever complained about being killed there would be no morality


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Both and Niether [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4005551 - 04/02/05 05:47 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

What does that tell us about morality? That it is an inner urge and knowledge to attitudes and right action to achieve pleasant feelings?


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Both and Niether [Re: dorkus]
    #4005567 - 04/02/05 05:50 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I tells us that it is an urge for making those around us feel good as much as making us feel good.

I'm simply observing people. They'll say to you that there i no right and wrong, and in a nother post be critical to those who embrace hate


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Both and Niether [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4005600 - 04/02/05 06:01 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, but aren't you taking the messages out of context? I don't know, but it seems like there is no contradiction between saying that the universe is a grey zone balancing darkness and light, and that neither of them is evil or good. It just is. When they tell people to chose the light side of things, it is in the context of seeking happiness and inner fulfillment.

That doesn't contradict the fact that everything is and nothing really judges. Like it is a programmed natural-law, the universe has to return what it receives.


Edited by dr_mandelbrot (04/02/05 06:04 PM)


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Both and Niether [Re: dorkus]
    #4005612 - 04/02/05 06:06 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

But where did this Light/dark come from?
Why is it even different colors? what is the difference between stealing and working for your money?
A philosophy that does not have concept of right and wrong should promote the easier way.

Calling something light and something dark, or something pink and something blue is dualism


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Both and Niether [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4005630 - 04/02/05 06:16 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Not if it together makes up ONE big lump :wink:


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