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Offlineradio879
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Registered: 09/28/04
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addition of DMT experiment - couple q's
    #4003973 - 04/02/05 05:41 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I have a friend of a friend of a friend who may be able to add any quantity of DMT he wants next time he grows. 

First, i'm assuming making the DMT into the Hcl salt first would be good so its more stable/etc.

So, would it be better to just add DMT Hcl to the water/substrate before sterilizing? (as the hcl salt it should handle this), or add it to the casing layer when they are going to fruit? Is too much DMT added going to be bad in any way? (like, 100mg good for a pint size jar, or would 2-300mg work possibly even better)

DMT supply isn't the problem so i'm not worried about wasting DMT if some extra was put in, but i'd like to see just how much more potent these mushrooms can get :smile:.

http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/7936
^^
there's something saying he added some root bark and could barely handle 0.3g dried shrooms because the potency was so strong, this sounds good to me i'm soooo suprised ya'll haven't jumped on this a long time ago :smile:.

I've got enough DMT to wipe my ass with.. but i dont have access to cheap mounds of psilocin/cybin.  This sounds like the way to go.

Edited by radio879 (04/02/05 06:49 AM)

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Offlineo0brandnewcolony
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: radio879]
    #4004373 - 04/02/05 09:57 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

You would need to add it to the substrate in my opinion, and give it a good while to colonize. At least a week after it appears fully colonized.

You would be wasting DMT IMO if you used it in the casing layer, since a proper casing wouldn't really colonize that layer all that much.


--------------------


LSA Extraction Pictorial



Keeping my spirit alive.

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Offlineradio879
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: o0brandnewcolony]
    #4032083 - 04/08/05 06:28 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Another thought..

There are species of plants like acacia maidenii that contain like 1/3 NMT and 2/3 DMT, if you used one of these with a lot of (or some) N-methyltryptamine you may be able to get some potent shrooms with a lot of baeocystin content. (if there is 4-PO-NMT would there be 4-hydroxy-NMT too?)

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OfflineAbermelin
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: radio879]
    #4032198 - 04/08/05 07:08 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

DMT Crystals are in freebase form, they are non polar, and arent active orally, even with an MAOI.

you dont have DMT HCL because even shulgin can't get DMT into its pure HCL form. however a DMT HCL solution (tea) can be made from a few different plant sources, which is most commonly known as the ayahuasca tea.

Even if your mushrooms managed to have DMT in them, it wouldnt be active without an MAOI. I have no idea what infusing your substrate with either the freebase or the HCL tea will do to the chemical content of the mushroom.

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Offline4hodmt
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: Abermelin]
    #4032250 - 04/08/05 07:25 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

ummm, you can get DMT into Hcl form, and i do believe shulgin did it. It makes spectacular large crystals. i believe you dissolve the freebase in chloroform, add Hcl and then add ether to the mix and the crystals spontaneously form in the ether. then u filter and wash.


the whole idea he is going for though is not to get DMT into the mushrooms themselves, but to have the fungus convert the surplus DMT into it's 4-hydroxy ester, which is that molecule we all know and love; psicolin. giving it these copious stores of DMT is what gives the shrooms the high potency.

I believe that you can add just tryptamine to the mix and get the same results however.

I think that the best way to do this though is add the powdered root bark of your choice to your brown rice flour. preferably mimosa hostilis root bark powder.



ahh, the ways we can live better through chemistry  :tongue: :grin:


--------------------
all posts made by 4hodmt are entirely ficticious. the user 4hodmt has noa ffiliation with any company, or organization; any endorsements made by 4hodmt are to be considered a joke. any similarity between a person (or story) 4hodmt is talking about is entirely happenstance. 4hodmt is not to be taken seriously under any circumstance. furthermore, he does not know what he is talking about. Please ignore anything 4hodmt has to say.


_______

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Offlineradio879
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: 4hodmt]
    #4032487 - 04/08/05 08:59 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I have made DMT Hcl once it was in fact a non crystal 'goo', in tihkal shulgin talks about it being difficult - anyway, yes you can just have a solution of dmt hcl in water.

I'm thinking the same thing, maybe just adding the ground up root bark to the substrate is plenty good enough - so then, no extraction necessary, mimosa root bark is CHEAP, by the way... :wink:.

I read somewhere i forget where at about someone adding the ground bark to the substrate and having mushrooms so potent 0.3g was enough for a full trip.  Damn, experiments should be done! :smile:

(mimosa hostilis root bark contains anywhere from around 0.6% - up to 2% DMT by weight, the stuff I get from one company is REAL good and seems to be around 1.2-1.5% which is incredible)

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OfflineAbermelin
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: radio879]
    #4033917 - 04/09/05 10:27 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

its funny you should mention that radio, cause i made something similar when i took some freebase, threw it in some water, added a drop of HCL, and eneded up with a plate of gooey crystals that wouldnt dry under any conditions, in fact they acted as a desiccant. I never ingested it though cause i wasnt sure what i had made.

But yeah, if your going to use DMT in cakes, use the mimosa root bark as its the most potent you can easily get your hands on. using extracted or synth'd DMT is kind of a waste of rare and expensive material, unless of course you extract it yourself.

but theirs still an inkling of doubt in me that mycellium would react negatively to a non polar (and slightly caustic) molecule like DMT freebase.

Quote:

i believe you dissolve the freebase in chloroform, add Hcl and then add ether to the mix and the crystals spontaneously form in the ether. then u filter and wash.




So your saying you add DMT to choloroform instead of water, both of which being great polar solvents, add the HCL like mentioned before, then get the DMT in its now polar form to absorb back into the petr. ether, a non polar solvent? i dont think DMT HCL will dissolve in a NP solvent, thats why in the intial stages of a DMT extraction you can do Defattings with a NP solvent and not extract any of the goodies out.

i might need a second opinion on that. Im pretty sure DMT HCL crystals are water retaining, so theirs no way to actually get a clean dry crystal you speak of.

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InvisibleSoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

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Posts: 1,690
Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: radio879]
    #4039941 - 04/11/05 02:52 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I think that the best way, to confirm, would be to make a small tray of compost/straw plus DMT crystals. The mixture would be pasteurized in the oven so that none of the DMT crystals would be leeched out in stove-top large amount of water pasteurization. I'd say 2-3 grams of DMT would be an overkill, and somewhat costly, but would DEFINATLY be enough, if some reaction did occur. If three times as much DMT existed in the substrate and was hydroxylated to 4-ho-dmt (psilocin), you'd still be faced with the question of whether or not the final fruitbody products would have more psilly juice. If a regular, known dose did not elicit a much stronger responce (a jump of at least 2 "levels", from an experienced tripped would be enough to convince me of some difference in the subjective quality of them), then I'd say it's bullshit. Good luck.


--------------------


Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man

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Invisiblestevo

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 5,100
Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's *DELETED* [Re: SoopaX]
    #4050233 - 04/13/05 12:24 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by stevo

Reason for deletion: .

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OfflineAbermelin
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: stevo]
    #4051206 - 04/13/05 03:48 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

this thread seems to go along the same lines of http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4038727/an/0/page/0

about vitamins and such. im sure you can add a bunch of shit to your substrate to make it more potent. i would still recommend using ayahuasca in place of pure DMT.

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Offlinecaptmueller
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: radio879]
    #4051505 - 04/13/05 04:56 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)


i would love to see some sources for that info on the mimosa/dmt percentage....cause the best info ive found was much much lower.....1%at the top..and around .57 is the average....show me the way to this very powerful mimosa

namaste,

captmueller


(mimosa hostilis root bark contains anywhere from around 0.6% - up to 2% DMT by weight, the stuff I get from one company is REAL good and seems to be around 1.2-1.5% which is incredible)



Edited by captmueller (04/13/05 04:59 PM)

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Offlineradio879
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: captmueller]
    #4052172 - 04/13/05 08:22 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

^^^
I will try and find the reference later as i dont have time (i shouldnt be on teh damn computer now anyway), i have read a couple places on teh net that it can be anywhere from .57% (or near that) up to 2% (probably very rare), but i know one thing - I used to get my mimosa from one company, and it was closer to the .5-.7% range, now i get it from a different company, and i'm getting over double the amount of DMT during each extraction, I just ordered more hopefully its the same stuff!

Oh, and I have been told (although I did not eat them myself but trust the source) that mushrooms were grown with added DIPT HCl in the substrate resulting in shrooms with an iprocin/psilo mix that did work, - and supposedly was liked (the trip) by people.  So I would think adding DMT (freebase or HCl? wouldnt the HCl since its more water soluble get more easily spread around also? i dunno) would have to also increase psilocin content. 

If i had the time/room/space, i'd do some experimenting with all of this, such as.. say.. 20 jars, use varying amounts of DMT in each, some extracted DMT made into its HCl salt, some with just ground up bark (left as freebase), etc etc and see if i could figure out some limit to how much DMT you can add to make it the most potent etc. and if the HCl salt would work better blah blah blah.  Very interesting to find out what 'works' best to get the most potent outcome.

Actually i'd love to add some DIPT maybe even AMT to a couple jars and see what happens (4-ho-amt?), fun fun fun shit :smile:.

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Offlinedumbsnake34
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: Abermelin]
    #4052935 - 04/14/05 12:19 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Abermelin said:
So your saying you add DMT to choloroform instead of water, both of which being great polar solvents, add the HCL like mentioned before, then get the DMT in its now polar form to absorb back into the petr. ether, a non polar solvent? i dont think DMT HCL will dissolve in a NP solvent, thats why in the intial stages of a DMT extraction you can do Defattings with a NP solvent and not extract any of the goodies out.





no dude, he is saying that when you add the petr. ether which is miscible with CHCl3, it will cause crystals to precipitate out because it will reduce the effective polarity of the solvent. This however isn't the ideal way to do it. It would be better to heat the mixture upadding petr ether. Keep everything hot and all the DMT dissolved then cool it down. This should cause crystals to form. This is standard recrystalization procedure that any chemist should know. The key is to use a combination of solvents. One solvates very well where the other doesn't. But adding the petroleum ether to the solution will cause the DMT to fall out forming crystals. They just won't be as pure as possible.


--------------------
mmmm, daydreaming

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OfflineAbermelin
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: dumbsnake34]
    #4054014 - 04/14/05 09:40 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

pet ether isnt entirely miscible with CHCL3 ( thats chloroform right? ). chloro is polar, pet ether is non polar. only a small amount is miscible since their polarities arent completely opposite.

but yeah, recystallization is much better. its not necessary to use chloroform for the process of DMT extraction.

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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: dumbsnake34]
    #4054784 - 04/14/05 12:57 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

In reference to most of the chemistry talk in this thread:

You're all totally lost and horribly confused. Everyone is talking about different things and none of them make sense. Unfortunately, I'm too tired to explain it to you so you'll just have to figure it out for your self.

DMT HCl is NOT easy to isolate and recrystallization has nothing (or very little) to do with its preparation. DMT easily forms other salts; this is not a big deal.

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InvisibleSoopaX
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Registered: 11/12/04
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #4063444 - 04/16/05 08:11 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

DMT didn't form crystals that well for me, just a forced air evaporation of naptha. A/B, digital pH meter, separatory funnel.  I used HCl(aq) and it was very easy to isolate.  I pulled the DMT from the base solution with VM&P naptha, a few washes, combined the naptha, and evaporated it.  I then poured ice cold water over it to absorb anything non-product that could have been clinging to the process. Vacuum filtered and dried.  I didn't know what solvent or temps to recrystallize with and I really didn't care that much. Worked great :smile:


--------------------


Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man

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OfflineJaguarWarrior101
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: SoopaX]
    #4066522 - 04/17/05 08:12 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Here's a list of some well known DMT containing plants:

1)Acacia spp. (Maiden's Wattle)
2)Anadenanthera spp. (Yopo)
3)Desmanthus illinoensis (Bundle Flower)
4)Phalaris grass (reed canary grass)
5)Psychotria viridis
6)Mimosa hostilis (Jurema)
7)Virola spp. (Epe?a)
8)Diplopterys cabrerana (Chagro-panga)
9)Arundo donax (Giant River Reed}

Now as to which contains the most DMT I don't know, but would love to find out if any of you know or has some information.
I think I read Phalaris Arundinacea (reed canary grass) has very high amounts, in which case would be great for me, as it grows not far from my house.


--------------------
The above post is purely hypothetical, and should not be considered the true thoughts, opinions, or actions of a real life person.

We perceive. This is hard fact. But what we perceive is not a fact of the same kind, because we learn what to perceive.
~Carlos Castaneda

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Offlineradio879
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: JaguarWarrior101]
    #4066840 - 04/17/05 10:11 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Well i can say that Mimosa hostilis contains a lot of DMT and its easy and cheap to get. There are many sites listing mimosa to contain 0.57% DMT, but in reality I think that this is on the low side, because it varies a LOT. I think good numbers to go by are anywhere from about 0.6-2% DMT by weight, but i've even read that mimosa containing 3% of DMT has been found.

This is what I use to extract DMT myself.. I used to get it from one supplier, and the yields per 100g bark were usually around 600-800mg. Well now I found a supplier just as cheap, and i'm getting almost twice as much! More like 1.2g-1.6g per 100g bark (it does vary a little), which is really great.

So it can vary a lot what company you get it from, and even from batch to batch, but this is a great source of DMT.

--
I have a q about the ph of the substrate water.. is it OK to have the water a little on the acetic side? I'm wondering because if one were to add ground up bark (or extracted DMT) to substrate, but wanted the DMT to be in its HCl salt form, it would be easy to add a few drops of HCl acid to the water then dump your DMT in (or ground up bark).

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Offlinecaptmueller
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: radio879]
    #4066976 - 04/17/05 10:57 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

dude, which extraction tek are you using ? those are wicked yeilds


namaste,

captmueller

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OfflineBladeLSD
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: radio879]
    #4067009 - 04/17/05 11:05 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I agree about their being lots of chemistry talk, and Im confused, and I shouldnt be... but anyways reed canary does has DMT some vary more than others it grows all over where i live, the only problem is it also contains 5-meo-DMT and what sucks is you think your smoking 50mg of dmt..., well you get the picture, stick with mimosa or desmathus, from most supplier mimosa has about the same as desmathus ive tried the extraction several times with both before and unless your using the high quality inner root bark of mimosa, then just go pull up the bundle weed if you can. I cant seem to find it anywhere anymore. As for putting DMT hcl into a jar, its been done, and works to increase potency, 50mg per jar is plenty anymore is waste and in afoaf experiments doesnt produce a significant enough increase to be worth the precious DMT instead of using 200mg of dmt hcl per jar just put 50 and snort the rest, if your talking about pure dmt that is... slightly acidic is fine for cakes my friend says


--------------------
We might get glimpse's of objectivity every now, and then, but we're so inherently locked in our temporal and corporeal selves that we're irrevocably locked into subjectivity :crazy:

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Offlineradio879
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: BladeLSD]
    #4067152 - 04/17/05 11:51 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

^^^
Interesting thanks.. can you give any more details, like how much more potent the mushrooms were with 50mg added? Yeah if I ever try this or friend of a friend of a friend blah blah i'd prob make it 75mg "just in case" :wink:.

Oh and are these the pf size jars? (pint, i'm not sure.. only time i did it i used quart jars) i'm sure a bigger jar/more substrate more DMT would be beneficial.

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OfflineLortimus
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: JaguarWarrior101]
    #4068115 - 04/18/05 08:38 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

JaguarWarrior101 said:
Here's a list of some well known DMT containing plants:

1)Acacia spp. (Maiden's Wattle)
2)Anadenanthera spp. (Yopo)
3)Desmanthus illinoensis (Bundle Flower)
4)Phalaris grass (reed canary grass)
5)Psychotria viridis
6)Mimosa hostilis (Jurema)
7)Virola spp. (Epe?a)
8)Diplopterys cabrerana (Chagro-panga)
9)Arundo donax (Giant River Reed}





#4 is Grass, couldn't we remove some of the worthless plant mass and add this to Cakes. A simple partial extraction shouldn't be hard. :confused:


--------------------

Fear Lime Cat!

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OfflineJaguarWarrior101
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: BladeLSD]
    #4069767 - 04/18/05 06:34 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

BladeLSD said:
reed canary does has DMT some vary more than others it grows all over where i live, the only problem is it also contains 5-meo-DMT and what sucks is you think your smoking 50mg of dmt..., well you get the picture,



Why would 5-meo-DMT be a bad thing? Also, in this case we aren't smoking it, we are using it to boost the stregth of our mushrooms.
So we would:

A)Use the plant in our substrate.

or

B)Use the extract in our substrate.

Quote:

BladeLSD said:
stick with mimosa or desmathus,



I happend to have ordered seeds for both of these a week or so ago, so hopefully I'll have a number of these plants available sometime this year. :headbanger:


--------------------
The above post is purely hypothetical, and should not be considered the true thoughts, opinions, or actions of a real life person.

We perceive. This is hard fact. But what we perceive is not a fact of the same kind, because we learn what to perceive.
~Carlos Castaneda

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Offlinerelativexistance
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: radio879]
    #4069950 - 04/18/05 07:10 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

does anyone have any info on how much psilocin remains in mushies once dried? i was under the impression that most of it gets broken down upon drying, however if more remained in dry mass i would be very interested in this.

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OfflineDarkie
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: relativexistance]
    #4075708 - 04/20/05 02:47 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I think there is little psilocin in the mushrooms to begin with. And i think that any psilocin that does break down turns blue. The only blue spots on my shrooms are on the bottom of the stem and sometimes the length of the stem, so thus very little of the very little psilocin. Psilocybin however, i do not think breaks down as readily.


--------------------
You gotta wake up to get faded but you gotta get up to get paided.

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Offlinedumbsnake34
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: relativexistance]
    #4082944 - 04/21/05 08:53 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

relativexistance said:
does anyone have any info on how much psilocin remains in mushies once dried? i was under the impression that most of it gets broken down upon drying, however if more remained in dry mass i would be very interested in this.




The standard number I have heard is 60% of the pcilocin remains, but it depends on how good your drying procedure is. You could attain better than that if you freeze dried them. And just as easily, you could attain worse if you used heat to dry them.


As for the extraction, there really is no need to get crystaline DMT because the other stuff with it shouldn't cause problems to the mushies. The best reason I can think of to get crystaline DMT is to see exactly how much you are adding, but you can't really be sure that DMT is what you have without using a lab, so whatever. As far as DMT HCl lowering the pH, if this bothers you (it increases chance of contams and lowers the later flush yields) then what you should do is add gypsum (sp?) to neutralize the acid. This is a good practice anyway. You should aim for an initial pH of about 8 I believe.

But the thing is, if you have DMT, youy might as well just get some syrian rue and make ayahuasca. Ayahuasca is basically just a more intense trip that doesn't have tolerance effects so you can trip all the time.

Anyway, that is just my opinion. I am sure I will be wrong about a couple things and I am sure I will be corrected. Peace all.


--------------------
mmmm, daydreaming

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Offlineradio879
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: dumbsnake34]
    #4086885 - 04/22/05 10:52 PM (19 years, 30 days ago)

Well, apparently someone real cool has already done some research!

So, i'm just relaying this info cause i find it very valuable, from.. a friend of a friend's friend's cousin's..dog..or something. :

Quote:

well the DMT I used was 99.9% pure at the time, so if your using extract you might wanna add a little more than 50. I used 1/2 pint pf/jars. I did several different experiments on a total of 72 jars over several months. plus the jars that didnt have DMT in them. Well if your real in patient like I was at first the potency increase is always flush dependent, so always let the jars sit around for atleast 2 extra weeks once their at 100% otherwise their wont be much of an increase in the first flush. Even with the wait the increase is always flush dependent, with later flushes always being more potent sometimes 3x as potent but generally in 2nd and 3rd flushes the mushrooms are 1.75x-2.4-5x more potent than their Non DMT counterparts in the same flush. As far as using other tryptamines, I didnt get around to it since RCs were made illegal. I found out that adding much more than 50mg doesnt produce a noticibal increase. 100mg and 50mg added to jars sided by side, and I couldnt tell the difference. So I only got as far as doing 3 jars with 40 3 with 50 3 with 60 and 3 without. the ones with 40mg were noticbly less potent. 1.5 dried grams of each were taken and all noticed the 40mg group to be the least potent in randomized tests. Aborts seem to be super potent, and the cakes are also noticbly more potent once their exhausted, so dont throw them away,




So uh, sounds to me like every shroomery dude growin' shrooms should try adding some DMT in some form, it sure looks like the potency is worth adding some ground up mimosa bark, it sure ain't expensive :wink:.

Edited by radio879 (04/22/05 10:54 PM)

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OfflineAbermelin
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: radio879]
    #4087257 - 04/23/05 12:53 AM (19 years, 30 days ago)

ayahuasca does have a permanent tolerance, but its different on a person to person basis.

and you cant ingest DMT freebase with an maoi and have it work. only DMT HCL (tea) works with an maoi. Dont argue, i have years of experience in this field.

with the acidity of your mimosa tea, depending on what acid you used, you can use calcium carbonate like what it used in casings.

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Offlinelonebuddha
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: Abermelin]
    #4087313 - 04/23/05 01:15 AM (19 years, 30 days ago)

doesn't the dmt free base convert to dmt hcl in your stomach when introduced to your stomach's hydrochloric acids?

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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: lonebuddha]
    #4087444 - 04/23/05 02:06 AM (19 years, 30 days ago)

Yuppers.


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Offlineliveby
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: SoopaX]
    #4087726 - 04/23/05 05:27 AM (19 years, 30 days ago)

mimosa has natural MAIO in it so three's some controversy over it being a source of orally active DMT.


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Edited by liveby (04/23/05 05:29 AM)

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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: Abermelin]
    #4087776 - 04/23/05 06:54 AM (19 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

Abermelin said:
ayahuasca does have a permanent tolerance, but its different on a person to person basis.



Permanent tolerance? Please explain. Even temporary tolerance is very difficult to produce clinically: Rick Strassman Interview: DMT Research, Elves, Aliens, and More

Quote:


and you cant ingest DMT freebase with an maoi and have it work. only DMT HCL (tea) works with an maoi. Dont argue, i have years of experience in this field.




Freebase DMT will be converted to DMT HCl immediately upon entering your stomach's own vat of hydrochloric acid. How would you go about making your DMT HCl tea anyway? What kind of experience do you actually have in "this field"?

Quote:

with the acidity of your mimosa tea, depending on what acid you used, you can use calcium carbonate like what it used in casings.



To what, convert the DMT salt back into freebase? What are you trying to say?

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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: lonebuddha]
    #4087778 - 04/23/05 06:55 AM (19 years, 30 days ago)

Most definately : )

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OfflineJazzMatazz
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #4087924 - 04/23/05 08:56 AM (19 years, 30 days ago)

sorry to cut into the discussion: but has anyone actually tried mimosa as a substrate addition? If so, what where the results? (The discussion about adding DMT to substrate has be going on in here for a year now...)
Wouldnt the DMT break down in a pc? So youd have to add it afterwards?

Thanks,
Jazz


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OfflineJaguarWarrior101
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: JazzMatazz]
    #4088564 - 04/23/05 01:31 PM (19 years, 30 days ago)

How would you add it afterwards? "Shake n' bake" your mushrooms in DMT? You'd also need a MAOI to make any use of said DMT, which would also ramp up the power of your mushrooms. In my opinion this would be a dangerous combination. The dangers of taking an MAOI and tripping really hard to the point you may eat something you aren't supposed to without thinking about it. I think this could only be done if one were out camping and had no access to any fermented foods/beverages.


--------------------
The above post is purely hypothetical, and should not be considered the true thoughts, opinions, or actions of a real life person.

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OfflineJazzMatazz
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: JaguarWarrior101]
    #4088592 - 04/23/05 01:36 PM (19 years, 30 days ago)

no, actually i wanted to add it to the substrate by bulking and mixing it under (the straw or whatever)
Why would you need maois if the DMT is turned to Psilocyn?


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OfflineJaguarWarrior101
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: JazzMatazz]
    #4088642 - 04/23/05 01:52 PM (19 years, 30 days ago)

You wouldn't.

Sorry I miss read your earlier post... you couldn't add the DMT after pressure cooking because you would ruin the purpose of using the pc to begin with. From what I gather DMT is quite stable, I don't think heat effects it much at all, someone will obviously correct me if I'm wrong.


--------------------
The above post is purely hypothetical, and should not be considered the true thoughts, opinions, or actions of a real life person.

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OfflineAbermelin
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: JazzMatazz]
    #4088691 - 04/23/05 02:10 PM (19 years, 30 days ago)

oh my children, so many questions and so little answers.

Quote:

doesn't the dmt free base convert to dmt hcl in your stomach when introduced to your stomach's hydrochloric acids?




i am no organic chemist, but i can tell you that eating the freebase with the maoi doesnt work.

Quote:

mimosa has natural MAIO in it so three's some controversy over it being a source of orally active DMT.




um no. you must be thinking of the caapi vine, which contains maoi's, and correct me if im wrong as ive never actually worked with the vine before, some amount of DMT. Mimosa has no maoi properties.

Quote:

Permanent tolerance? Please explain. Even temporary tolerance is very difficult to produce clinically: Rick Strassman Interview: DMT Research, Elves, Aliens, and More




i didnt say you get a permanent tolerance from smoked freebase (as you insinuated in your link about DMT research), i said you get it from ayahuasca. thats two differnt things. I also said its on a person to person basis. Ask any experienced ayahausqero if his first few trips were much different than his later ones, and i assure you he will tell you so.

Quote:

Freebase DMT will be converted to DMT HCl immediately upon entering your stomach's own vat of hydrochloric acid. How would you go about making your DMT HCl tea anyway? What kind of experience do you actually have in "this field"?




DMT hcl tea is made by boiling a DMT containing plant in a pot of acidified water. I have years of personal experience in the specific field of rue/mimosa ayahuasca. You dont need a MIT chemistry degree to know what methods of brewing and ingesting are more potent and successful than others.

Quote:

To what, convert the DMT salt back into freebase? What are you trying to say?




im saying if you make a mimosa tea, your going to use an acid to extract the DMT out of the plant matter. Your going to want to do this because the tea is far more potent than the amount of powdered plant material you would have to use in your substrate, and it will be more readily available to the mycellium than through tough root bark cells. Anyways, if your adding an acidic solution to your substrate, you will want to add some limestone flour (calcium carbonate) to your substrate to balance the PH out. Who said anything about basifiying? You need to pull your head out of the western mindset and understand things for their simplicity. As far as adding freebase to your substrate, other than the fact that its wasteful, my instincts tell me that it is a bad idea for the sake of the health of the mycellial network. If anyone has success with that method, then the best of luck.

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OfflineJaguarWarrior101
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: Abermelin]
    #4089269 - 04/23/05 05:38 PM (19 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

Abermelin said:
Quote:

Permanent tolerance? Please explain. Even temporary tolerance is very difficult to produce clinically: Rick Strassman Interview: DMT Research, Elves, Aliens, and More



i didn't say you get a permanent tolerance from smoked freebase (as you insinuated in your link about DMT research), i said you get it from ayahuasca. that's two different things. I also said its on a person to person basis. Ask any experienced ayahuasca if his first few trips were much different than his later ones, and i assure you he will tell you so.




As with any drug, the more you are experienced with it the more you know what to expect, the familiarity with it would change the entire experience.


--------------------
The above post is purely hypothetical, and should not be considered the true thoughts, opinions, or actions of a real life person.

We perceive. This is hard fact. But what we perceive is not a fact of the same kind, because we learn what to perceive.
~Carlos Castaneda

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Offlineradio879
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: JaguarWarrior101]
    #4089425 - 04/23/05 06:36 PM (19 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

i am no organic chemist, but i can tell you that eating the freebase with the maoi doesnt work.




Um, sorry, but i'm not GOD, but ...you are just wrong, plain and simple. This is how i take my 'huasca, i extract the DMT out of mimosa, so i have pretty white freebase crystals. Then, i'll usually first take a conveinent no-hassle capsule of an extract of harmala/line, then, take a measured dose of DMT freebase in a capsule, nice and conveinent for me, my style, no barfing to deal with etc. Sorry but, as the other guy said, the DMT freebase DOES come in contact with the hcl acid in your stomach and becomes the hcl salt, ...i'm right, simple as that. How can it not work, if..thats what i do, and it does work? how can it NOT become the hcl salt? Pointless thing to talk about i mean COME ON! simple shit.

Quote:

and you cant ingest DMT freebase with an maoi and have it work. only DMT HCL (tea) works with an maoi. Dont argue, i have years of experience in this field.




^^ bwahahahahahahahaha. sorry. I had to laugh once again. Years of experience taking huasca must have..given you some big ego or something? man, time to take a break from that and maybe eat some shrooms or LSD? Don't argue? bow down to the..dmt ..knowledge god here?!? ahh god, why do i bother.. i think everyone else reading the thread understands, yes, when you eat the freebase DMT, it does, turn into the hcl salt in your stomach. Got that kids?

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OfflineAbermelin
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: radio879]
    #4090475 - 04/24/05 12:30 AM (19 years, 29 days ago)

And i suppose your a master organic chemist who knows exactly what goes on when you take a shitty extracted kitchen chemist DMT sample, pretty white crystals or no, and stick it in an enviroment filled with organic HCL and a array of microbes, some of which have been disabled by an organic maoi.

oh, but i forgot, everything is always cut and dry. yeah, you take DMT freebase and it converts to HCL in your stomach and everything works out exactly how you imagine it would, because our stomachs are just pure HCL lab grade acid, thats it, nothing else could possibliy be in there.

no, my experience isnt ego, its credibility. And fyi, vomiting is part of the ayahuasca experience, and believe it or not, its what causes you to peak. If your going through all that effort to avoid the nausea, then maybe you should stick to the "fun" drugs.

personally, i dont think children should be playing with ayahuasca, or any analogue thereof.

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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: Abermelin]
    #4090495 - 04/24/05 12:37 AM (19 years, 29 days ago)

Dude, you are an idiot. Idiot. Idiot. Idiot. Nice "two shroom" rating, Dr Shulgin!


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: Abermelin]
    #4090498 - 04/24/05 12:38 AM (19 years, 29 days ago)

Also, HCl(aq) isn't organic, good one though! "organic HCl" lol, thats hilarious!


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: Abermelin]
    #4090830 - 04/24/05 03:45 AM (19 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Abermelin said:
And i suppose your a master organic chemist who knows exactly what goes on when you take a shitty extracted kitchen chemist DMT sample, pretty white crystals or no, and stick it in an enviroment filled with organic HCL and a array of microbes, some of which have been disabled by an organic maoi.




It really doesn't take a master chemist to know that stuff man.  As soopa said, it's basic shit.  MAOIs don't inhibit any microbes (please explain what it would even mean for a "microbe" to be inhibited.  Actually, don't explain, please.)  Oh, did you mean enzymes, which have absolutely nothing to do with the conversion of any remotely basic substances to the HCl salt when you stick them in a vat of pH 2-4 solution of HCl no matter what other crap is in there with them unless you also happen to throw in a shitload of Tums? as well?  You're not fooling anyone man.

Quote:


oh, but i forgot, everything is always cut and dry.




Watch me ignore that.

Quote:


yeah, you take DMT freebase and it converts to HCL in your stomach and everything works out exactly how you imagine it would,




You're the one that's imagining things.

Quote:


because our stomachs are just pure HCL lab grade acid, thats it, nothing else could possibliy be in there.




Your words, not mine.

Quote:


no, my experience isnt ego, its credibility.




Where is your credibility?  I haven't seen a shred of it since I first starting reading your posts. 

Quote:


And fyi, vomiting is part of the ayahuasca experience, and believe it or not, its what causes you to peak.




:blah:

Quote:


If your going through all that effort to avoid the nausea, then maybe you should stick to the "fun" drugs.




Unless I missed something, avoiding nausea is not the reason for extracting the DMT in this case. 

Quote:


personally, i dont think children should be playing with ayahuasca, or any analogue thereof.



So then, you've probably never tried it right?  Or are you also a hypocrite

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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #4090840 - 04/24/05 03:53 AM (19 years, 29 days ago)

He must have edited his post. He was talking about "organic" HCl(aq). I've never heard of organic molecules that don't contain carbon, maybe this guy is on to some new discovery. The other possibility, of course, being hes a maroon.


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Offlinedumbsnake34
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: Abermelin]
    #4097791 - 04/25/05 11:56 PM (19 years, 27 days ago)

Abermelin,

You need to not make so many statements about stuff you know close to nothing about. You are confusing the discussion and wasting people's time because they must correct you. You are wrong, simply put and I see you making false corrections all over the place. You obviously have no business posting replies on the advanced mycology forum. Frankly, I wish I could just block you from the posts because you provide nothing useful. Personally, I am an organic chemist and what everyone else is saying is right.

And fyi, nausea may be caused in part by DMT and maois, but that only makes up for a negligable amount of nausea. Most comes from setiment (sp?) and other chemicals that are not recognized as active.

Your stomache has a pH of less than 4 and DMT HCl has a pKa of greater than 8 which means that your stomach would infact make DMT HCl out of more than 99.99% of it, but that is beside the point anyway because once either form of DMT hits your stomache it will quickly reach equilibrium which means that both DMT HCl and DMT freebase are the same once ingested. The difference, however, may come from the fact that it is harder to extract DMT without an acid and DMT freebase can boil off while brewing, but whatever.

Quote:

personally, i dont think children should be playing with ayahuasca, or any analogue thereof.




So I guess my question for you is, why are you playing around with ayahuasca?


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OfflineDarkie
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: dumbsnake34]
    #4101163 - 04/27/05 12:13 AM (19 years, 26 days ago)

So getting back on topic. I got some MHRB. I got some rye. I got some jars. I got some time. What should I do here? If you tell me, so i dont have to think too much, I'll do the experiment and post the result in like a month.
So gonna screw around with some mung beans but that is for a different post.


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: Darkie]
    #4101827 - 04/27/05 05:11 AM (19 years, 26 days ago)

Do an acid/base extraction of your MHRB to obtain DMT crystals. Prepare your rye as usual. When you go to case your grains, add the DMT crystals. Incubate, case, fruit, eat, hopefully trip balls for a week, post the conclusive report, be paraded down Shroomery Blvd. Have massive waves of hot shroomery chicks throwing their thongs at you. Get laid a lot. Some steps not guaranteed.


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Offlinedebianlinux
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: SoopaX]
    #4102153 - 04/27/05 09:31 AM (19 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

SoopaX said:
Do an acid/base extraction of your MHRB to obtain DMT crystals.
Prepare your rye as usual.
When you go to case your grains, smoke the DMT crystals.
Post the conclusive report of your visions of being paraded down Shroomery Blvd. Having massive waves of hot shroomery chicks throwing their thongs at you and getting laid a lot.
Incubate, case, fruit, eat.




:blush: :grin:

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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: debianlinux]
    #4102204 - 04/27/05 10:01 AM (19 years, 26 days ago)

hahah :smile:  OK, save 40mg so you can smoke it.  Doing the extraction, usign all your crystal, and it NOT working would be horrible!!


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Offlinefleaballs
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: Abermelin]
    #4167353 - 05/12/05 04:33 PM (19 years, 11 days ago)

"and arent active orally, even with an MAOI"

Phamahausca?

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OfflineKalix
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: fleaballs]
    #4167456 - 05/12/05 05:01 PM (19 years, 11 days ago)

I've read that using a DMT rich plant like mimosa in your substrate increases potency even though most of the DMT is burned while PCing supposedly not all of it is destroyed, and what reamins is turned, by the mushroom into 4-HO-DMT or psilocybin. I had an idea of adding mimosa that has been sterilized with rubbing alcohol to a sub after PCing, but haven't tried it yet..


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Offlineradio879
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Re: addition of DMT experiment - couple q's [Re: Kalix]
    #4189656 - 05/18/05 01:33 AM (19 years, 5 days ago)

Well, this may help answer questions about how the mycellium makes psilocin/cybin/baeocystin/4-ho-nmt/etc.  Check out pages 58 and 59 :smile:
They added DET and got 4-ho-det and 4-po-det out, and adding DMT results in more psilocin/cybin.  Also adding NMT results in more baeocystin/4-ho-nmt.  I'd be curious about adding that kind of bark (forget the name, des..illinous or whatever) which has a lot of NMT as well as DMT in it.

http://webdoc.sub.gwdg.de/diss/2004/jensen/jensen.pdf

As for destroying the DMT when PC'ed, i'd say make it a salt first (hcl or whatever) that way it should be saved.  You could just dissolve some DMT freebase in some water, and add an acid little by little until the ph is around 7.  Use that water as part of the water adding it to the water you'd use for the substrate. 

Check out dmtworld.org for extraction questions/info.

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