Home | Community | Message Board


Azarius
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Should The Bible Be banned From the Jury Room?
    #3992133 - 03/30/05 09:29 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

This poll came in my mail. Before I place my vote, I want you'alls opinion on this one. I felt stumped for some reason. I do want to vote. Thanks for any input you think I should consider ahead of time.
P.S. If you care to vote yourself, PM your e-mail and I will forward the poll to you.

Should The Bible Be Banned From The Jury Room?
Cast your vote on this important issue now!

Dear Cindy,


Recently the Colorado Supreme Court, by a vote of 3-2, threw out a death sentence for a man convicted of rape and murder. The reason? Some jurors in the jury room read from the Bible before reaching a verdict.

Oddly enough, the judge in the case ? as Colorado law requires ? sent the jury off to deliberate about the death penalty with an instruction to think beyond the narrow confines of the law. Each juror, the judge told the panel, must make an "individual moral assessment," in deciding whether the defendant should live.

The jurors voted unanimously for death. But the Colorado Supreme Court changed his sentence to life in prison without parole.

"The biblical passages the jurors discussed constituted either a part of the jurors' moral and religious precepts or their general knowledge, and thus were relevant to their court-sanctioned moral assessment," the dissenting judges wrote.

Of course, the ACLU praised the ruling saying that the use of the Bible in the jury room was illegal due to the separation of church and state.

Should the Bible be banned from the jury room?

To cast your vote, please click here

Sincerely,

Don

Donald E. Wildmon, Founder and Chairman
American Family Association


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineKungFu_Shaman
naive and lovingit

Registered: 02/23/05
Posts: 191
Loc: noitacaol cihpargoeg
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
Re: Should The Bible Be banned From the Jury Room? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3992149 - 03/30/05 09:34 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Yes it should - government can not endorse any religion(s). By the government using a Bible, they are using, and therefore endorsing, a canonical text of both Judaism and Christianity - thus violating the government's promise to not endorse any religion(s).


--------------------
Feel the wrath of Skeletor's breakfast burrito!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Should The Bible Be banned From the Jury Room? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3992153 - 03/30/05 09:36 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Whatever, it is a tradition, holds no meaning today anyway to people in the courtroom


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Should The Bible Be banned From the Jury Room? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3992173 - 03/30/05 09:39 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks Shaman.

Maybe you didn't read what this is about. It did mean something and make a difference to a jury decision as was stated. The jury may have decided differently on something had it not been made available to them.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Should The Bible Be banned From the Jury Room? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3992178 - 03/30/05 09:40 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, It'as clearly a violation of church and state.

Moreso it is offensive to those that don't believe in "the truth" that the Bible holds.

As should all messages bearing in "God we trust" and many other affiliated responses to the effect of involving an omnipotent being in the governing of the human world.

but :shrug: We prefer contradictions in Laws I suppose.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 12,756
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 21 hours, 4 minutes
Re: Should The Bible Be banned From the Jury Room? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3992712 - 03/30/05 11:52 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

The Bible in the courtroom is, like its presence in a Masonic Temple, a symbol of Truth. In Masonry, the Bible is called "The Light of Masonry," although any faith is recognized by Freemasonry. I do not make the connection between the Masons and our judicial system in passing - Masons constructed our system. Americans are by-and-large Christian, if only in tradition if not consciously held belief. The unconscious of Americans is deeply influenced by the Bible on different levels, but the idea of GOD if primary. Just like the 'eye-in-the-pyramid' on the Great Seal of the dollar, the 'All-seeing Eye of GOD' is a symbol of True Objectivity, hence Truth, hence the judicial concept of 'justice.' Deep values need be communicated with symbols - relevant symbols. A Qu'ran might be made available in a courtroom, and perhaps other books representing major world religions (high religions) which embody high moral principles, that people can select to be sworn-in on.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Should The Bible Be banned From the Jury Room? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3993074 - 03/31/05 01:30 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks Active and Markos.

I was curious to hear views as I didn't even know that jurors had Bibles in their rooms to reference during deliberations of verdicts and sentences. That surprised me because of the Law on Separation of church and state, yet I thought of how you have to swear to tell the truth on the Bible "so help you God if you lie on it" before testifying.

I am thinking if you have moral values that are religious based, you have them before you serve on a Jury. If you feel pressured once in there to make "the moral" decision, you may be apt to look at the Bible and make a rash decision you wouldn't have other wise made. Such decisions wouldn't be a true reflection of the judgment of ones community peers but would be indirectly influenced.

I appreciate the input as I have never given this area of life in America much thought! :thumbup: I'm going to vote now so we can let this post drop.  Thanks again.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleniteowl
GrandPaw
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Re: Should The Bible Be banned From the Jury Room? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3993112 - 03/31/05 01:41 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Isn't it odd that you have to "swear on the bible" in court.......but you cant use the same bible to back up your moral pov?



















This country is going to hell in a handbasket!!!!!!


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleflowstone
blustering

Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 6,485
Loc: precious
Re: Should The Bible Be banned From the Jury Room? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3993157 - 03/31/05 01:51 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Should The Bible Be banned From the Jury Room?




No. The bible is important, all political and religious aspects aside. The bible represents 'truth'.. no , not absolute truth! just your personal promise to tell the truth!
Okok, so maybe the way is a bit old fashioned, this church and state thing. Forcing people to associate truth with the bible! Blasphemy. Do they not realize the bible is totally bogus in and of it self. But the implications it makes are what has stuck for so long. Perhaps they should revise it "Place your hand on your ass and swear to tell the truth" That way they would not lie because they know if you lie and get caught, it's your ass.. in jail !
ONLY IN AMERICA( or is that world wide? :stoned:)


--------------------
these long agonizing months without you...have been long and agonizing..
"War Doesn't Decide Who's Right... It Only Decides Who's Left."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Should The Bible Be banned From the Jury Room? [Re: niteowl]
    #3993282 - 03/31/05 02:14 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, it is odd nite owl. If one stays, they both have to stay. if one goes, the other should as well.

That was funny flow, about swearing on your ass as it will end up in jail if your caught lying.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinezahudulallah
Sexual Heretic

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Should The Bible Be banned From the Jury Room? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3993449 - 03/31/05 02:55 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I don't see what God has to do with justice. That's not His job.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 28 days, 5 hours
Re: Should The Bible Be banned From the Jury Room? [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3993786 - 03/31/05 06:38 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Well, considering the don't allow jury's to have law books in the jury room, I certainly don't think they should be allowed to have a bible in the jury room either. If they want to allow any reading material in the jury room, then they should allow all material, including the bible.

> Isn't it odd that you have to "swear on the bible" in court...

I always thought the raise your right hand part was odd until somebody explained it to me... (I haven't verified this, but was told...) back in the colonial days they used to brand the palm of the right hand of convicted criminals... so when you were asked to raise your right hand while being sworn in, it was a way of showing the judge and jury that you had not been (or had been) convicted of a previous crime.


I wonder how people would feel if the a jury member pulled out the satanic bible and read a few versus from it... I suspect it would cause quite a stir... this smells of "do as I say, not as I do"...


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleHelp on the Way
Slipknot420

Registered: 08/13/00
Posts: 2,893
Loc: Another World
Re: Should The Bible Be banned From the Jury Room? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3993809 - 03/31/05 07:36 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
Yes, It'as clearly a violation of church and state.

Moreso it is offensive to those that don't believe in "the truth" that the Bible holds.

As should all messages bearing in "God we trust" and many other affiliated responses to the effect of involving an omnipotent being in the governing of the human world.

but :shrug: We prefer contradictions in Laws I suppose.




i agree


--------------------
:shocked: *Divine Moments of Truth* :shocked:


"Limitless undying love which shines around me like a million suns - it calls me on and on across the universe" ~ John Lennon

"Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right" ~The Grateful Dead

"Religionists, with their guaranteed eventual paradise, of which they know nothing, taking it all on 'faith,' can't be expected to understand or sympathize with those with a yen to storm the Gate of Heaven and see for themselves what all the praying's about!" ~Robert Hunter


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,866
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 2 months, 2 days
Re: Should The Bible Be banned From the Jury Room? [Re: Help on the Way]
    #3993818 - 03/31/05 07:43 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

why, they use science either way ::P :P


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Should The Bible Be banned From the Jury Room? [Re: Seuss]
    #3994349 - 03/31/05 11:10 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

if you're a muslim, can you swear on the Coran, or do they make you swear on the Bible?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblevampirism
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
Re: Should The Bible Be banned From the Jury Room? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3994709 - 03/31/05 12:31 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

no, don't ban it by any means.

if someone wants to use the bible, who the fuck are we to stop them.

Dont ban it, but don't force it.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,329
Loc: On the Border
Re: Should The Bible Be banned From the Jury Room? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3996515 - 03/31/05 07:07 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Definitely. The part where you put your hand on the Bible and swear (do they still do this?) is the worst. You should have to swear by what you hold most sacred. In my case it would be a stack of ribeye steaks and a couple of slices of pizza.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Should The Bible Be banned From the Jury Room? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3996638 - 03/31/05 07:32 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Definitely. The part where you put your hand on the Bible and swear (do they still do this?) is the worst. You should have to swear by what you hold most sacred. In my case it would be a stack of ribeye steaks and a couple of slices of pizza.




the point of it is not personal at all, but after that ritual they can put charges on you for lying, that's the use of it.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: Should The Bible Be banned From the Jury Room? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3996988 - 03/31/05 08:30 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Your name's Cindy?

Well Cindy, all politically correct people realize that the outmoded concept of morality has no place in murder trials. The proper attitude is to realize that we are all government property. The death of another human being is not about right or wrong, it's about destruction of government property. To allow jury trials is to maintain a semblance of the notion among the common man that his opinion matters. However, this can go too far and we must never loose sight of the fact that government has replaced the Christian god as the grantor of all prayers, the source of sustenance and the final arbiter of correct human behavior. It is now the supreme authority, the new god, the most important idol to worship (think of legislators repeatedly trying to pass 'flag desecration' laws). Ergo, the first and most important commandment "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" applies now to the government - it cannot allow competing religions or competing gods except as lessor religions or lessor gods, to do so would undermine its hard gained authority.


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Should The Bible Be banned From the Jury Room? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3997300 - 03/31/05 09:45 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I think the only thing a juror should be allowed to take with them into deliberations is their own notes taken during testimony. I served on a jury (the charge was murder) and that's all we were allowed to bring in. Of course one's own beliefs are carried in one's mind and heart, but you're asking for trouble by throwing the Bible, or any religious text, into the mix.

Jury deliberations are stressful enough without some religious zealot waving the Bible around like a weapon over people's heads. You can find anything you want in there to support your position. Jury deliberation is time for serious contemplation, not Sunday school. And if you haven't formed your beliefs by the time you enter that jury room you sure aren't going to play catch-up in a few hours.

If you were the defendant would you feel comfortable placing your fate in the hands of some jurors flipping through the Bible?


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Questioning The Bible
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
McKennaFan200 3,191 115 12/19/04 02:01 PM
by Moonshoe
* One Glaring Problem With The Bible
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
DiploidM 10,719 132 04/30/05 11:25 AM
by MarkostheGnostic
* It's a miracle: Pastor deflects gunshot with Bible!
( 1 2 all )
OrgoneConclusion 1,137 30 03/09/09 06:24 PM
by TameMe
* The Bible Code
( 1 2 all )
nubious 1,160 22 05/17/03 01:48 AM
by johnnyfive
* Notice in my Local Newspaper Veritas 482 6 06/17/06 04:51 PM
by Icelander
* Found a new version of the Bible..... Psychoactive1984 632 18 05/04/05 05:36 PM
by Psychoactive1984
* Bible Funnies slime_R 902 18 02/09/04 04:56 PM
by 1stimer
* The Bible - REVELATION The_Clash_UK 874 16 06/19/02 07:23 PM
by GRTUD

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Diploid, DividedQuantum
1,496 topic views. 1 members, 8 guests and 13 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Vaposhop
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.085 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 16 queries.