Home | Community | Message Board


Kratom Eye
Please support our sponsors.

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Amazon Shop for: Agar, Brown Rice Flour, Coir, Pressure Cooker, Rye Grain, Vermiculite, Wild Bird Seed, pH Test Strips

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
Invisibleagar
old hand
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
Trusted Cultivator
COOKING
    #3991815 - 03/30/05 08:24 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Mycology is in a way like cooking. You start with a good recipe, ingredients, and utensils. Leave any critical ingredient out of a good recipe, the result is almost certain to be far less than optimal. The same holds for implements. Without a proper container, it is near impossible to boil water. Without an oven, it is near impossible to bake.

Without a proper pressure cooker it is near impossible to sterilize whole grains. Without a proper incubator, it is difficult to easily colonize grain spawn, and substrates. Without a proper fruiting chamber, it is difficult to attain good crops.

Mycelium requires moisture to flourish. Fruit bodies consist of 90% moisture. Without a large reservoir of moisture in a substrate to draw from, mycelium cannot form fruit bodies of any significant size. They cannot - because they are restricted by a lack of necessary moisture.

A straight grain substrate - once 100% colonized consists of nothing more than solid block of whole grains & mycelium. That mycelium itself drew a significant amount of moisture out of the grains, simply to colonize it. So, whatever moisture remains, creates the basic limit, fruit bodies can draw from, in order to grow. Given a small moisture reservoir, the resulting fruit bodies can only be small.

Think about it - again. A solid block of grain & mycelium is neither a good moisture reservoir, nor has a spongy consistency that will adsorb, hold & distribute moisture - quickly. For that very reason, I do not use straight grain substrate.

An optimal substrate should have a spongy humus like texture & consistency, as compost, quasi/compost & well prepared horse manure do. Not only will a porous sponge like substrate hold more moisture, it is capable of replenishing itself (if supplied), as it can absorb moisture - very quickly.

To prove the point. Remove a 100% colonized grain substrate from it?s container, weigh the substrate, then submerse it in water for 1 minute. Remove it, and weigh it - again. It?s weight will only increase nominally. Then, repeat that exact procedure with a compost, quasi/compost, or horse manure substrate. It?s weight will increase significantly. Simply because it?s consistency allows for quick hydration, absorption & much more moisture retention.

Once pins are well formed, fruits grow, and mature at a very rapid rate. Given optimal nutrients, and conditions, the only limiting factor is the amount of readily available moisture in the substrate. Just like a car, when it runs out of gas. It stalls, and rolls to a halt. The same is most often true of a whole grain substrates.

Another issue of equal importance is substrate size (excepting cakes in optimal conditions). Fact is, given optimal conditions in tray containers, a tiny substrate will produce tiny fruit bodies. Larger substrates will produce larger fruit bodies, up to certain limits. Simply put, larger substrates are capable of supplying more nutrients, and moisture to form fruit bodies. Optimal conditions, nutrients and moisture create optimal fruit bodies.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleOlgualion
Shaman-In-Training
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/14/01
Posts: 1,253
Loc: Currently Earth...
Trusted Cultivator
Re: COOKING [Re: agar]
    #3991866 - 03/30/05 08:36 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

>Once pins are well formed, fruits grow, and mature at a very rapid rate. Given optimal nutrients, and conditions, the only limiting factor is the amount of readily available moisture in the substrate.

What about casing moisture content?  I think this is very important as well.  I have seen consistent 150% biological efficiency from grain over 4 flushes without h2o replenishment.  the casing moisture content is very very important...

Good post though!! :smile:


--------------------
Study the past...
See the future...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleagar
old hand
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
Trusted Cultivator
Re: COOKING [Re: Olgualion]
    #3992104 - 03/30/05 09:24 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

True. And, your point is well taken.

I agree, an optimal casing cover mixture will get you a much higher B/E on a straight whole grain substrate.

But, most novices don't prepare an optimal casing cover, apply it in proper depth, nor water it correctly.

The increasing trend now,is a verm/coir casing cover. Simply because one doesn't have to worry about, or adjust the casing materials PH.

Coir contains enough basic nutriants, it will in fact colonize. What results is a quasi/casing cover, because a vast part of it becomes colonized. Which, reduces the moisture carry capacity of it.

Most novices do not apply casing covers -in adiquate depth - either. Simply put, a thin coating of casing, doesnt have the capacity to retain, nor distribute a significant amount of moisture, as do thicker ones.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
Stranger-er

Registered: 11/06/04
Posts: 4,898
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: COOKING [Re: agar]
    #3992146 - 03/30/05 09:32 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I agree with everything...

I can relate to the small fruit bodies, I used wbs as a sub. and forgot about adding verm., it produced many mushies at once and then BAM, just like a car out of gas, they just Stopped and broke their veils, next time i will most defiently use verm...

I'm thinking about using a grain/horse poo/hay mixture next time...maybe throw some verm. in there just in case....id throw in compost but i'm still trying to cypher through tons of info to figure out how to correctly make it :wink:

Good "write-up" Agar, people here w/ acually understand this LOL...

:thumbup:

-Gnostic


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinemushroommark
Earning mybluethumb

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 359
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: COOKING [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #3992229 - 03/30/05 09:52 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Excellent, eloquently put, agar. 

Since we're talking about optimums and subs... I'd love to hear what you think optimum substrate depth to be?

And the corresponding casing depth for this substrate depth?

A couple questions that have been asked and answered a thousand times but I'm always curious as to  your take, :wink: Thanks again

mark


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinekilgore_trout
Stranger
Registered: 10/18/03
Posts: 1,607
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: COOKING [Re: mushroommark]
    #3992358 - 03/30/05 10:24 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

it seems like your post implies a rehydrating dunk before every flush, including the first. Is this your regular practice?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblepoboy
On the bounce
Male

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 1,355
Re: COOKING *DELETED* [Re: kilgore_trout]
    #3992492 - 03/30/05 11:02 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by poboy

Reason for deletion: d



--------------------
Burn the land and boil the sea but you can't take the sky from me.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleagar
old hand
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
Trusted Cultivator
Re: COOKING [Re: mushroommark]
    #3992711 - 03/30/05 11:51 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

IMHO, casing depth should be near or just bit less than 1/4 the substrate depth.

If a casing is to serve it's OPTIMAL function. It must be large enough (in volume) to absorb, hold & quickly distribute a significant amount of moisture.

IMHO, for this type cultivation substrate depth should be a minimum of 2 inches, and a maximum of 4 inches.

A 3.5 to 4 inch substrate depth, covered with ? to 1 inch of casing mixture has provided my best returns. That total combination also fits perfectly in tray containers 6 inches in height (inexpensive nested - 12 quart type plastic dishpans with aluminum foil between them).


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleagar
old hand
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
Trusted Cultivator
Re: COOKING [Re: kilgore_trout]
    #3992736 - 03/30/05 11:57 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

kilgore_trout said:
it seems like your post implies a rehydrating dunk before every flush, including the first. Is this your regular practice?




Casing covers (also) serve as a contaminate sheild over colonized substrate. I would never remove a colonized cased substrate from it's container. Doing so, would expose the substrate to contamination.

Throughout the period following casing, water must be applied intermittently to raise the moisture level of the casing cover to field capacity before the mushroom pins form.

Knowing when, how, and how much water to apply to casing is an "art form" which readily separates experienced growers from beginners.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleagar
old hand
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
Trusted Cultivator
Re: COOKING [Re: poboy]
    #3992777 - 03/31/05 12:08 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

In a small tray, 1 quart of colonized rye, spawned into 3 quarts of pasturized horse manure gives you the highest potential. Once the substrate is colonized, add a casing cover, incubate a few days until you have myc showing evenly through the casing cover, initiate pinning by exposure to light & air exchange.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleagar
old hand
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
Trusted Cultivator
Re: COOKING [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #3992933 - 03/31/05 12:48 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Gnostic

Next time, make some BRF, rye flour, and believe it or not, grind up some sunflower seeds, add a few handfuls of h/poo & make a soup of it, then, add chunky verm. That way the verm will absorb a lot of that nutrient & juice.

Then, add bulk h/poo until you have a nice humus like consistency & water until mixture is at the 75% moisture level. Then pasteurize the stuff, allow to cool, then add spawn. You know the drill.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

Amazon Shop for: Agar, Brown Rice Flour, Coir, Pressure Cooker, Rye Grain, Vermiculite, Wild Bird Seed, pH Test Strips

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Myelium layer depth when doing a 60/40 + BigJohnson 620 3 03/01/03 03:31 PM
by BigJohnson
* Depth Vs. Surface Area SpookerShroom 1,975 19 08/07/06 08:53 PM
by SpookerShroom
* Pan Cyan substrate depth scatmanrav 1,656 5 04/09/05 02:45 PM
by scatmanrav
* Calling all Cultivation Gurus: Most significant advances in last 4 years?
( 1 2 all )
GivebackJack 1,390 21 05/12/09 01:17 PM
by JMR
* What is the optimum time to wait for jars to cool? LogicaL Chaos 1,458 11 02/03/09 12:39 PM
by drunkmunky
* Substrate depth reite 938 6 07/20/02 12:00 AM
by Anno
* What are all the Optimal Conditions for Casings? DZ 396 4 03/15/09 01:31 PM
by DZ
* achieving optimal fruiting temperature Nicer 1,431 10 07/01/05 02:04 PM
by pcubmycol

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Magash, Shroomism, george castanza, Prisoner#1, RogerRabbit, Citric, total, FooMan, 13shrooms, stonesun, EvilMushroom666, cronicr, PussyFart
1,005 topic views. 17 members, 49 guests and 27 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Original Seeds Store - Cannabis Seeds
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.071 seconds spending 0.003 seconds on 14 queries.