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Offlineexclusive58
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The tree falling in the forest
    #3990407 - 03/30/05 03:20 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

ok, so the question is, as you all know, if a tree falls in the middle of a forest, and no one is there to hear it, does it still make a sound?

Psychoactive1984 just mentioned this rhetorical philosophical question in another thread, and personally i don't see what's the big deal concerning it.

The only problem with it depends on your definition of what a "sound" is. To me, a sound is just vibrations of air molecules. So of course the tree makes a sound.

wtf?


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: The tree falling in the forest [Re: exclusive58]
    #3990414 - 03/30/05 03:22 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I believe this stems from Human's having their ego-centric notions that if they didn't hear it... it didn't make a sound.

I'd say yes it did.


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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineDrink_Punk_Soda
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Re: The tree falling in the forest [Re: exclusive58]
    #3990436 - 03/30/05 03:27 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The issue at hand is not whether or not the tree makes a sound, but rather the broader philosophical question of

Does something change for having been observed?


Think about it. How do you know your cat can't fly when you aren't looking? What's to say I can't become invisible when no one is around? If a tree falls in the woods when nobody and nothing is there to see the result, how can you know what the result is?

You can't. You can make an educated guess based on observing other trees falling, and your knowledge of phsyics...


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Kumbayah my lord, Kumbayah...


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: The tree falling in the forest [Re: Drink_Punk_Soda]
    #3990450 - 03/30/05 03:32 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I think Exclusive58 was onto something in terms of definitions.

A cat can fly if you call flying licking your ass and coughing up hairballs.

Just because you, or for that matter someone don'tt percieve something as such doesn't mean it's not occuring.

I can define my typing as god's will... prove otherwise, I define it as such, just because you aren't seeing me speaking in tongues doesn't suggest otherwise or dose it?

Everything is changed by the observation, and how we depict/describe the phenomena, if you are on LSD and/or some other powerful hallucinogen and you see a car melting... does that mean that it is melting? Or is that just your current perception of events? All in all, ask someone who isn't hallucinating to describe the car, you'll more then likely hear a different opinion of the matter.

Is their opinion any truer then your own? Both are equally as valid to my mind's eye.


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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: The tree falling in the forest [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3990563 - 03/30/05 03:52 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The day i no longer see my self facing what i know to be a mirror, the three will make no sound.. :P


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Offlinesignoffate
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Registered: 02/22/05
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Re: The tree falling in the forest [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3990630 - 03/30/05 04:04 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

listen... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ...

The tao of god is all, one, many, none at all make the sound.
nothing else can be found look around
and see the fallen tree is part of me


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: The tree falling in the forest [Re: signoffate]
    #3990694 - 03/30/05 04:18 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

all you crazy believers with your crazy philosophies. You read too many new age books and eat too many soy products. stop thinking so freely and buy more stock in microsoft and shut up and drink your mocha latte before I promote you to district supervisor.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: The tree falling in the forest [Re: Shroomism]
    #3991145 - 03/30/05 05:44 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Sorry Shroomism... I'll pretend to be sane if it makes you feel better. :tongue:


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The tree falling in the forest [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3991397 - 03/30/05 06:37 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

if we are advised,
we make a sound to honor its passing.
if we are there to hear it it makes a really impressive sound,
and we are part of its passing.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: The tree falling in the forest [Re: exclusive58]
    #3991573 - 03/30/05 07:26 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I don't see how it would even be falling, unless someone were there.. :P hahaha


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Offlinecybrbeast
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Re: The tree falling in the forest [Re: exclusive58]
    #3991873 - 03/30/05 08:38 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

No I don't think it makes a sound. At least not my definition of a sound.
A sound as we experience it is created everytime we hear something. What the tree does when it falls it create a waveform movement in the air molecules. Our ears and brain translate this movement into something we call sound.


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: The tree falling in the forest [Re: exclusive58]
    #3991885 - 03/30/05 08:40 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

if the sound isn't observed...did it happen?


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The tree falling in the forest [Re: kaiowas]
    #3992126 - 03/30/05 09:28 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

if we were not here did we happen.
how about the tree that fell before we were born
or those that fall after we die.
it is ok to be a tree and to fall unheard
it is ok to die
it is ok to be


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: The tree falling in the forest [Re: exclusive58]
    #3992213 - 03/30/05 09:49 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

If the tree falls, and there is no consciousness around to perceive it, it simply vibrates air molecules. Sound is the interpretation of (presumably) external stimuli beating against our ear drums and then heard by our conscious mind, but if there were no consciousness to perceive the vibration of air molecules, then there would be no sound.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: The tree falling in the forest [Re: exclusive58]
    #3992312 - 03/30/05 10:15 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

..if a mosquito were around... ? :wink:


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: The tree falling in the forest [Re: exclusive58]
    #3992720 - 03/30/05 11:53 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Be Here Now: There's a Sikh story about a holy man who gave two men each a chicken.
He said, "go kill them where no one can see."
One guys went behind the fence and killed the chicken.
The other guy walked around for two days and came back with the chicken.

The holy man said, "you didn't kill the chicken?"

The guy said, "Well, everywhere I go, the chicken sees."




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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Offlinesignoffate
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Re: The tree falling in the forest [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3993071 - 03/31/05 01:29 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

So the tree can feel itself falling,
and lets face it sound is only a feeling
just wind in you mind

I feel all that ever has been
and I'm part of what will be
rain drops in an empty field, the rush of blood in my veins
Nothing exists in itself, but are all part of the music
listen I can hear your song

There are no solo's,
your crashing tree only grows because of what was
It has heared the sound of microbes and decay
from eons of life before today
and even though you don't think you know,
that tree is part of you this way
what more can I say


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Invisibleflowstone
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Registered: 01/25/05
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Re: The tree falling in the forest [Re: exclusive58]
    #3993198 - 03/31/05 01:58 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Worst question ever! Any sort of pondering this is deemed excessive mental masturbation and should be avoided at all costs:evil:

I guess It all comes down to your definition of sound...


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these long agonizing months without you...have been long and agonizing..
"War Doesn't Decide Who's Right... It Only Decides Who's Left."


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: The tree falling in the forest [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3993751 - 03/31/05 05:22 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I believe this stems from Human's having their ego-centric notions that if they didn't hear it... it didn't make a sound.

They?! And what species are you?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: The tree falling in the forest [Re: Swami]
    #3993813 - 03/31/05 07:41 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Would there even be a tree in the Forrest if no-one was there? :P


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