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OfflineJon
Registered: 06/28/03
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The happy pill
    #3985968 - 03/29/05 05:23 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

It has been about 3 years since ive been in and out of psychiatrist offices dissatisfied with their conclusive methods. I didnt like the fact they gave me medications on the spot, I felt that all the mental health profession were a bunch weirded out bastards that put their weight of sympathy on these pills to keep a check comin. I walk into all these offices, loaded with free samples of all this ADD and anxiety crap. Like I paid a fuckin 200 dollar admission charge to get a bunch of pills. Ive been goin through the same routine with all these psychiatrists, and they keep givin me pills, they almost seem like they ignore me and play tic tac toe on their retarded writing boards. I have reasonabl suspicion over the sudden explosion of psychotropic substances introduced to the mental health world. People keep telling me that less than 10% of the nation are on these depression pills. I keep thinking that these pills are just images of an ideal american individual. Kind of like someone is behind all these drugs some how tilting the mentality of a nation towards a more seemingly happy resolution. I fear the pills, i dont like the fact that psychiatrists have to use pills to disect my mind in order to overspeculate a bullshit diagnosis where im just high on some shit. I have a number of issues, and my dissatisfaction with the nation is one of them. Then I have a trust issue, I cant really trust anyone to rely on walking me through an obstical. I have made a recent visit to a new psychiatrist, again concluding the same way "TAKE THE MEDICINE" Is this stuff really medicine? Is my skepticism keeping me from moving on with my life? Or are these pills just another narrow gate towards joining the desecration of individualism itself? Please tell me if im being retarded, I dont mind constructive criticism, but I have to know if this pill is really going to help me.


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OfflineDeathCompany
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Re: The happy pill [Re: Jon]
    #3986031 - 03/29/05 05:47 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

well if u dont want your anti depresents u can ship them to me


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OfflineViveka
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Re: The happy pill [Re: Jon]
    #3986087 - 03/29/05 06:09 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

What's the pill supposed to do? Suppress the part of you that's no good? Or correct some sort of imbalance that's making you "no good" in some way. The West put the horse before Descartes a long ass time ago and these armchair "doctors" have been sitting there with their thumbs up their collective ass ever since.

If you walk into a "doctor's" office and the first thing he does is set you up with pills, before he takes the time required to become familiar with who you are, what your life is like, what sorts of stresses are in your life, how you react to them, then he is obviously full of shit. I think it gross malpractice that a person can be prescribed pills to modify brain chemistry, when no attempt has been made to get the individual to modulate their own lives and thought processes through inner work. This type of "medicine" is founded on the idea that the mind and body are two separate entities, a line of thinking spawned by Descarte and his ilk a long time ago that has become the basis of Western Medicine.

There is no external substitue for inner work.


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OfflineJon
Registered: 06/28/03
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Re: The happy pill [Re: Viveka]
    #3986209 - 03/29/05 07:05 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I feel exactly the same way. I dont know how psychiatrists persist an intention of helping while they let the pills speak for themselves. It is highly suspicious that a majority of people seeking mental help are brought up to these drugs that are said to guaruntee (or somthin close) an improvement of the state of mind. I have always wanted to know what those lazy bastards write in their little boards. I wanna see how my psychiatrist reacts to my testimonies implying i did take the medication where as I really didnt. I seek to clarify the intentions of these soo called "doctors"


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: The happy pill [Re: Jon]
    #3986760 - 03/29/05 09:14 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)



--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: The happy pill [Re: Jon]
    #3987643 - 03/29/05 11:34 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I've been thinking about trying to get a prescription for adderall and/or modafinil.


They sound like fun.


--------------------


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: The happy pill [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3987677 - 03/29/05 11:39 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Mmmm....modafinil.

The adderall will be far easier to procure.


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: The happy pill [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #3987696 - 03/29/05 11:43 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I'm having trouble staying awake in class.


What do they prescribe for that?


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: The happy pill [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3987779 - 03/29/05 11:52 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Sleep. :laugh:


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: The happy pill [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3987886 - 03/30/05 12:05 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Seriously unless you have some liberally thinking doctor, they probably won't prescribe you anything for just saying you are fatigued.

I was actually diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome after a bout with Epstein-Barr virus. They gave me Zoloft at the time as some peoples fatigue seems to respond to this, but it didn't work for me. Then later they tried Wellbutrin for the same reason.

Narcolepsy is easy to diagnose and without it (or a open minded doctor) you probably won't be able to get Modafinil. I even had my buddy look in Mexico last time he was there and he couldn't get it.

Adderall will be you best bet. Good or bad, most people can usually fit the bill for ADD.


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: The happy pill [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #3989051 - 03/30/05 07:18 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I don't understand how an attention deficit due to induction of drowsyness is any different than any other form of attention deficit.


--------------------


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Offlinestarptv23
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Re: The happy pill [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3994278 - 03/31/05 10:50 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

i do feel that doctors love to cure things with a pill...But i know i have been having anxiety that leads into panic attacks...i do have drugs to help me out when i feel crazy.. and i have tried everything (meditating-yoga-going to a reki to get balanced- learning ti-chi..) before going the drug route ...it was my last straw I needed help to funchtion for my family and most of all for myself.....I do NOT PLAN ON TAKING THEM FOR MORE THEN I NEED TO..it just gives me breathing space for the moment so i can get through the day with out feeling like im going to go nuts ....I hope you find the path that works for you..everyone is so different...i do believe in all types of meds from--herbal- to energy balancing --to science medication..it is all here for a reason...good luck :heart: :tongue2:


--------------------
"Six words: drop out, turn on, then come back and tune it in -and then drop out again, and turn on, and tune it back in-it's a rhythm- most of us think God made this universe in nature-subject object-predicate sentences-turn on, tune in, drop out- period, end of paragraph. Turn the page- it's all a rhythm- it's all a beat. You turn on, you find it inside, and then you have to come back (since you can't stay high all the time) and you have to build a better model. But don't get caught - don't get hooked - don't get attracted by the thing you're building, cause... you gotta drop out again. It's a cycle. Turn on, tune in, drop out. Keep it going, keep it going- the nervous system works that way. gotta keep it flowing- keep it flowing.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: The happy pill [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3995263 - 03/31/05 02:45 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
I don't understand how an attention deficit due to induction of drowsyness is any different than any other form of attention deficit.




I think you'd have to work at Pfeizer or one of the leading Pharmaceutical companies to understand that.  :grin:

~bullshit to sell prescriptions IMO... such that we make up disorders.

I read a few weeks back in my local newspaper of a 4 and 1/2 year old being diagnosed with Manic depressive disorder :whatever:

It's a good way to sell pills and keep the kids quiet in class... If they're acting like normal rambunxious shits (acting like kids) then they must have ADD/ADHD/DEPRESSION/Psychological Complexes/etc... I see it as an attempt to bring work to a fallacious science.

Edit:

In our societies attempts to enforce conformity... we have numerous organizations that seek to qualify, and quantify human behavior, and further to assert what is "normal".

The thing is... perhaps being in such a state is normal, hence why the individual reacts to stimuli the way they do... We shouldn't IMO attempt to enforce such a degree of conformity to psychological standards... 1984 comes to mind with the notion of "thought control" on the extremist end.

Think about how much we suggest we know about human behavior versus what we actually know... People are dieng all the time as a result of being misdiagnosed... Think of the terminology often asociated with such disorders, e.g. a chemical imbalance... Psychologists aren't chemists, nor do they have the actual qualifications to diagnose such disorders in way of the credentials associated with their degree, that would require advanced degrees in neurlogy, which they lack afaik.

Even then, the science is unproven beyond FDA contracts, that are proven through bunk experiments and manipulation of results.

http://www.2facts.com/ICOF/temp/53764tempi1000060.asp
Username: mpclib
Password: MPCLIB
(might not require it)


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Edited by Psychoactive1984 (03/31/05 02:57 PM)


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: The happy pill [Re: Jon]
    #3999405 - 04/01/05 11:23 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

yeah, I havent trusted psychiatrists since I first went to one when I was 16.

I tried to tell him what was going on in my life and he was just like 'yeah, yeah' and after about five minutes of not even paying attention to what I was saying he was like: "Here: take these. Shut up."

then I started taking a drug called Paxil, and I just didn't like the way it turned me into something I wasn't meant to be, so I stopped taking it and went back to pot.

but yeah, that whole experience led me to believe that psychiatrists are just licensed dope dealers, pushin pills for the man, sucking Satan's cock like a bunch of whack bitches.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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Invisiblebadchad
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Registered: 03/02/05
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Re: The happy pill [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3999929 - 04/01/05 01:30 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

The fact is, there simply aren't enough doctors to take care of everyone who is mentally unwell. Psychotherapy is usually a long and ardous process. It takes considerable time and resources to allow a person to become "well again".

Thats why medication is so frequently prescribed. It's simple, and cost effective. Additionally, in contrast to some of the testimonies on this site these drugs do work. No, I have never taken or been prescribed any of these drugs, however I've met many people whose lives have been changed by an antidepressant prescription.

Not everyone has a positive experience with these drugs, when considered in a larger context however, they are an achievement of modern medicine.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Offlinestarptv23
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Re: The happy pill [Re: badchad]
    #3999956 - 04/01/05 01:33 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I take them and they work for me...I am the only one that can help myself and the drug lets me calm down to think things through...everyone is diffrent...


--------------------
"Six words: drop out, turn on, then come back and tune it in -and then drop out again, and turn on, and tune it back in-it's a rhythm- most of us think God made this universe in nature-subject object-predicate sentences-turn on, tune in, drop out- period, end of paragraph. Turn the page- it's all a rhythm- it's all a beat. You turn on, you find it inside, and then you have to come back (since you can't stay high all the time) and you have to build a better model. But don't get caught - don't get hooked - don't get attracted by the thing you're building, cause... you gotta drop out again. It's a cycle. Turn on, tune in, drop out. Keep it going, keep it going- the nervous system works that way. gotta keep it flowing- keep it flowing.


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Invisible4bin
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Re: The happy pill [Re: Jon]
    #4000045 - 04/01/05 01:47 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Hey Jon,

You are not wrong in your assertions. Most psychotherapists are glorified drug dealers. In modern times, people increasingly diagnose themselves based on television comercials put out by phamaceutical companies. Patients now increasingly tell the doctor what illness/disease/disorder they have, and the doctor pops out a script for whatever pill the commercial prescribed. The whole system is producing lazy ass doctors along with a dangerously misinformed public.

In the past when people had headaches, depression, or insomnia, they followed their instinct and got more rest, drank less booze, or ate better. Now, people don't have any need for instinct--afterall, they have Pf*zer now. Long story only shortly longer, I totally agree with you Jon. Keep keeping on brother.


--------------------
I grow legal edibles only. Fresh Shiitake are the bee's knees - like, straight from the fridge.


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: The happy pill [Re: 4bin]
    #4000140 - 04/01/05 02:07 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

4bin said:

You are not wrong in your assertions. Most psychotherapists are glorified drug dealers.




Or respected doctors. I guess it depends on how you look at it.

Quote:

4bin said:In modern times, people increasingly diagnose themselves based on television comercials put out by phamaceutical companies. Patients now increasingly tell the doctor what illness/disease/disorder they have, and the doctor pops out a script for whatever pill the commercial prescribed.




I'm sure you're aware a patient cannot diagnose him/herslef. The diagnosis of mental disorders is made upon subjective criteria. If you met the criteria, you qualify. This is less than optimal, but in the absence of laboratory, or objective tests it's the best one can do.

Quote:

4bin said:The whole system is producing lazy ass doctors along with a dangerously misinformed public.




In general, "lazy" people don't usually fair well in medical school. It's a difficult thing to get through.

The fact is, if med school were easy there would be enough doctors to sit and perform psychotherapy upon patients. Look at how many people are depressed within this single thread. The resources simply aren't there to help everyone. In addition, psychotherapy by itself (or "Talking it out") hasn't been shown to alleviate depression to a greater extent than through the use of drugs (e.g. they produce almost identical results). Thus, since the chances of withdrawal of depression are equal between pharmacotherapy and psychotherapy, the sensible choice is the use of a drug, which is far cheaper.

Quote:

4bin said:In the past when people had headaches, depression, or insomnia, they followed their instinct and got more rest, drank less booze, or ate better. Now, people don't have any need for instinct--afterall, they have Pf*zer now. Long story only shortly longer, I totally agree with you Jon. Keep keeping on brother.




In the past people asked god to heal them and had a life expectancy far lower than we have now. It doesn't matter how much "instinct" you have, sleeping will not resolve a chemical imbalance in the brain.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: The happy pill [Re: badchad]
    #4001031 - 04/01/05 04:45 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Your average witch doctor from Borneo has a comparable track record to that of a pill pushing psychotherapist.


They have not chosen the most effective path, merely the most profitable. It's not the only industry where this is true. Ask any salesman and they will tell you that their product will change your life.


Ask a sysco representative whether or not they have a computing system that will revolutionize your business, and they will say yes.


Usually this does not happen.


--------------------


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: The happy pill [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #4001610 - 04/01/05 06:57 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Your average witch doctor from Borneo has a comparable track record to that of a pill pushing psychotherapist.




Actually no. I wouldn't necessarily compare medical school to becoming a witch doctor (you do realize that practicing psychiatry requires an MD degree, the same degree conferred to all medical doctors?). After 4 years of medical school there are other residencies which are equally and/or more profitable then becmong a psychiatrist.


Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:They have not chosen the most effective path, merely the most profitable. It's not the only industry where this is true.




Next time you visit the Dr. take a look at the bill. A psychiatrist stands to make MORE money, by repeatedly seeing you than he/she would by writing a prescription. This would especially be true of private practice where a pychiatrist is paid per session.

Contrary to what you may believe these doctors are not getting any "kick backs" from the pharm industry and have little incentive to prescribe specific drugs (for many a generic version is already available). Tell your doctor you don't like a particular drug and he'll quickly switch you because he doesn't profit either way.

In essence because psychotherapy and drugs have the same rates of alleviating depression, the doctor is saving you money.

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:Ask a sysco representative whether or not they have a computing system that will revolutionize your business, and they will say yes.


Usually this does not happen.




Although it's a matter of opinion this HAS happened. Prior to 1940's if you were depressed, guess what? Your diagnosis was; "Suck it up, too bad, quit crying". The antidepressants were developed which helped people deal with depression immensely, yet had severe side effects. In the early 90's SSRI's were developed which reduced the side effects. Now the first selective serotonin/norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor has just been released (it's main effects won't be apparent for several years).

As with most aspects of mood disorders, you can claim the glass is "half empty" but in my opinion these drugs are revolutionizg the way we deal with depression. While they may not have helped you specifically, they are helping enormous amounts of people. To deny the benefits of these drugs, would be like saying antibiotics don't work the evidence simply doesn't support it.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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