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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Unlikely that Jesus is God
    #3984495 - 03/29/05 08:21 AM (19 years, 3 days ago)

If I were to start some teachings (even though true and of a higher order) that I KNEW (omnisicence) would be distorted and twisted in future generations by power brokers to torture and suppress and wage war, I would keep my mouth shut out of compassion.  :heart:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: Swami]
    #3984501 - 03/29/05 08:27 AM (19 years, 3 days ago)

Obviously the bible god is not omnipotent, that much is clear.
An omnipotent god does not need wind to separate the sea for people to pass, he could just make them appear where he would like them to be. This bible god is simply a powerfull being, but still not real philosophical god.
It seems to me that Jesus was not refering to the old testament god when he was talking about god. It seems that god and his father is not the same thing. When he said you can find god anywhere, he was refering to philosophical god, yet the god that sent him is just a bit more powerfull than we are now with our technology.
this god was not omnipotent, and did not know everything, he had interaction, conversation, action. These are signs of limitations.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 18 days
Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: Swami]
    #3984502 - 03/29/05 08:28 AM (19 years, 3 days ago)

Ah, but we might simply be in a valley for the time being and cannot see the goodness lurking over the horizon. Is it valid to assume that Jesus is not God based upon an unknown future?


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: Seuss]
    #3984524 - 03/29/05 08:49 AM (19 years, 3 days ago)

We might be, but if the positive affects have not been demonstrated by now, they are unlikely to be. And those people that have ALREADY suffered and died will take no comfort from that. Any future mass enlightenment will likely be from other sources and causes. A social result that takes millenia to manifest cannot be linked back to unitary point in history.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleEgo Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: Swami]
    #3984571 - 03/29/05 09:17 AM (19 years, 3 days ago)

If Derren Brown claimed he was the son of God theres no doubt that a cult following would arise.

He can read your mind, make things appear or dissappear and a thousand other great mentalist tricks. He taught himself by interacting with people in a particular way.

Humans have leaders and followers and it only takes 1 person to be able to lead millions of people!

I think if Jesus existed at all then he was another Derren Brown but with the leadership quality.

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Invisibleniteowl
GrandPaw
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc: Flag
Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3984587 - 03/29/05 09:27 AM (19 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Obviously the bible god is not omnipotent, that much is clear.
An omnipotent god does not need wind to separate the sea for people to pass, he could just make them appear where he would like them to be. This bible god is simply a powerfull being, but still not real philosophical god.
It seems to me that Jesus was not refering to the old testament god when he was talking about god. It seems that god and his father is not the same thing. When he said you can find god anywhere, he was refering to philosophical god, yet the god that sent him is just a bit more powerfull than we are now with our technology.
this god was not omnipotent, and did not know everything, he had interaction, conversation, action. These are signs of limitations.






:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Im glad to hear someone else say that the biblical "god" was NOT all powerfull.
An omnipotent-allpowerfull GOD..... IMO is a mythical creature.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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OfflineDroz
Love of Life
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Registered: 10/15/00
Posts: 2,746
Loc: Floorida
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: niteowl]
    #3984632 - 03/29/05 09:50 AM (19 years, 3 days ago)

Maybe Jesus had skitzophrenia.


--------------------
Evolution of Time.

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: niteowl]
    #3984690 - 03/29/05 10:17 AM (19 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Obviously the bible god is not omnipotent, that much is clear.
An omnipotent god does not need wind to separate the sea for people to pass, he could just make them appear where he would like them to be. This bible god is simply a powerfull being, but still not real philosophical god.
It seems to me that Jesus was not refering to the old testament god when he was talking about god. It seems that god and his father is not the same thing. When he said you can find god anywhere, he was refering to philosophical god, yet the god that sent him is just a bit more powerfull than we are now with our technology.
this god was not omnipotent, and did not know everything, he had interaction, conversation, action. These are signs of limitations.






:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Im glad to hear someone else say that the biblical "god" was NOT all powerfull.
An omnipotent-allpowerfull GOD..... IMO is a mythical creature.




An omnipotent god can not be a creature, that's my point.
This biblical god sounds like he is some kind of a creature,an entity.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Offlineslaphappy
Its just me
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 1,188
Loc: Norway, Eidsvoll, Råholt...
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: Droz]
    #3984691 - 03/29/05 10:18 AM (19 years, 3 days ago)

We're all God.

Jesus knew that.


--------------------
The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.

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Offlineegghead1
Nakedly Open

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 931
Loc: The Womb of Love
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: slaphappy]
    #3984708 - 03/29/05 10:23 AM (19 years, 3 days ago)

We are Gods that created this illusion, but forgot that we created it. Jesus knew this and tried to help others recognize this fact by perfomring miraicles and such. Becuase he was human, he was poitning out that by perofrming these miracles ,we all have this same potential....... :heart:


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: niteowl]
    #3984711 - 03/29/05 10:24 AM (19 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Obviously the bible god is not omnipotent, that much is clear.
An omnipotent god does not need wind to separate the sea for people to pass, he could just make them appear where he would like them to be. This bible god is simply a powerfull being, but still not real philosophical god.
It seems to me that Jesus was not refering to the old testament god when he was talking about god. It seems that god and his father is not the same thing. When he said you can find god anywhere, he was refering to philosophical god, yet the god that sent him is just a bit more powerfull than we are now with our technology.
this god was not omnipotent, and did not know everything, he had interaction, conversation, action. These are signs of limitations.






:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


I'm glad to hear someone else say that the biblical "god" was NOT all powerfull.
An omnipotent-allpowerfull GOD..... IMO is a mythical creature.



That's why the meme floating around out there that the Biblical was really no more then another being that evolved elsewhere in this Universe just ahead of us enough to "play god" here with the evolving humans. Call me nuts, whatever, it makes more sense then anything else on the table now and also explains why the Old Testament said "WE" created man in our image. "We" would explain a group of intelligent beings that evolved somewhat similar to us and were just ahead. There is just to much shit in the Bible about chariots coming from the heavens.

Who is to say that every angel and what not that came and spoke to the people in the name of "God" were not also of ET origin that figured out dematerialization and rematerialization and time travel. No one can prove that idea wrong.

FYI, most of you know I explore in the realms of the existence of intelligent life in this universe beyond humans. As far as I have understood, they have no freaking idea what set creation, evolution, math and consciousness into play either. Maybe some thought that by playing god, they could get in the head of the Creative force and intelligence behind all of this to understand it better. I dunno. Maybe the group responsible for the Biblical stuff are just power mongers playing games here to pass he time.

Maybe they think by watching us, they will get some answers to explain themselves to themselves at least.

But if that's what is going on, it would explain why "that" God -gods, of religions are not characteristic of omni presence etc, rather are just others beings of the multiverse who have evolved further along then humans have. No one can prove that theory wrong so it remains a working theory to me as it makes the most sense to me so far.

And maybe they wern't power mongers. Maybe humans took what info they were given and twisted and manipulated it to power trip on other humans and the ET's decided to sit back and let it be out of repsect for free will and decided to watch what came of it.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

Edited by gettinjiggywithit (03/29/05 10:40 AM)

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: slaphappy]
    #3984718 - 03/29/05 10:27 AM (19 years, 3 days ago)

We're all God.

But we only recognize this fact during climax. "Oh, God. OH GOD!"


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: Swami]
    #3984809 - 03/29/05 10:58 AM (19 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
We're all God.

But we only recognize this fact during climax. "Oh, God. OH GOD!"




you know, as funny as it may sound, there might be some truth in it :smile:


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
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Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3984823 - 03/29/05 11:00 AM (19 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
That's why the meme floating around out there that the Biblical was really no more then another being that evolved elsewhere in this Universe just ahead of us enough to "play god" here with the evolving humans. Call me nuts, whatever, it makes more sense then anything else on the table now and also explains why the Old Testament said "WE" created man in our image. "We" would explain a group of intelligent beings that evolved somewhat similar to us and were just ahead. There is just to much shit in the Bible about chariots coming from the heavens.

Who is to say that every angel and what not that came and spoke to the people in the name of "God" were not also of ET origin that figured out dematerialization and rematerialization and time travel. No one can prove that idea wrong.

FYI, most of you know I explore in the realms of the existence of intelligent life in this universe beyond humans. As far as I have understood, they have no freaking idea what set creation, evolution, math and consciousness into play either. Maybe some thought that by playing god, they could get in the head of the Creative force and intelligence behind all of this to understand it better. I dunno. Maybe the group responsible for the Biblical stuff are just power mongers playing games here to pass he time.

Maybe they think by watching us, they will get some answers to explain themselves to themselves at least.

But if that's what is going on, it would explain why "that" God -gods, of religions are not characteristic of omni presence etc, rather are just others beings of the multiverse who have evolved further along then humans have. No one can prove that theory wrong so it remains a working theory to me as it makes the most sense to me so far.

And maybe they wern't power mongers. Maybe humans took what info they were given and twisted and manipulated it to power trip on other humans and the ET's decided to sit back and let it be out of repsect for free will and decided to watch what came of it.




:thumbup: finally someone on my side  :sun:


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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OfflineZekebomb
sociophagus

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 1,164
Loc: BC province
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: Swami]
    #3984830 - 03/29/05 11:02 AM (19 years, 3 days ago)

Unlikely that Jesus is God

isn't the claim to the effect that Jesus is the SON of God? I don't think anyone ever claimed that Jesus was omniscient.

Plus, to paraphrase what someone already said up there, reserve your judgement about Jesus' teachings for when Time has officially ended. You're not omniscient either, and a big surprise may be just around the corner (2012! 2012!).

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3984861 - 03/29/05 11:10 AM (19 years, 3 days ago)

I don't see it as being a side. I just see it as a general possible theory to put on the table for others to consider. I have no concrete proof to argue it with. If someone has something to put on the table that makes even more sense then, I will be there.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Invisibleniteowl
GrandPaw
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc: Flag
Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3984939 - 03/29/05 11:37 AM (19 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
That's why the meme floating around out there that the Biblical was really no more then another being that evolved elsewhere in this Universe just ahead of us enough to "play god" here with the evolving humans. Call me nuts, whatever, it makes more sense then anything else on the table now and also explains why the Old Testament said "WE" created man in our image. "We" would explain a group of intelligent beings that evolved somewhat similar to us and were just ahead. There is just to much shit in the Bible about chariots coming from the heavens.

Who is to say that every angel and what not that came and spoke to the people in the name of "God" were not also of ET origin that figured out dematerialization and rematerialization and time travel. No one can prove that idea wrong.

FYI, most of you know I explore in the realms of the existence of intelligent life in this universe beyond humans. As far as I have understood, they have no freaking idea what set creation, evolution, math and consciousness into play either. Maybe some thought that by playing god, they could get in the head of the Creative force and intelligence behind all of this to understand it better. I dunno. Maybe the group responsible for the Biblical stuff are just power mongers playing games here to pass he time.

Maybe they think by watching us, they will get some answers to explain themselves to themselves at least.

But if that's what is going on, it would explain why "that" God -gods, of religions are not characteristic of omni presence etc, rather are just others beings of the multiverse who have evolved further along then humans have. No one can prove that theory wrong so it remains a working theory to me as it makes the most sense to me so far.

And maybe they wern't power mongers. Maybe humans took what info they were given and twisted and manipulated it to power trip on other humans and the ET's decided to sit back and let it be out of repsect for free will and decided to watch what came of it.





I have felt this for a LONG time now.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3985040 - 03/29/05 12:03 PM (19 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
I don't see it as being a side. I just see it as a general possible theory to put on the table for others to consider. I have no concrete proof to argue it with. If someone has something to put on the table that makes even more sense then, I will be there.




My "side" is that such a theory is one of the possibilities, so that makes you on my side


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: niteowl]
    #3985057 - 03/29/05 12:05 PM (19 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
I have felt this for a LONG time now.




another one? great  :thumbup:


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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OfflineMAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,396
Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
Last seen: 2 months, 16 days
Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3985283 - 03/29/05 12:48 PM (19 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Obviously the bible god is not omnipotent, that much is clear.
An omnipotent god does not need wind to separate the sea for people to pass, he could just make them appear where he would like them to be. This bible god is simply a powerfull being, but still not real philosophical god.
It seems to me that Jesus was not refering to the old testament god when he was talking about god. It seems that god and his father is not the same thing. When he said you can find god anywhere, he was refering to philosophical god, yet the god that sent him is just a bit more powerfull than we are now with our technology.
this god was not omnipotent, and did not know everything, he had interaction, conversation, action. These are signs of limitations.






:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


I'm glad to hear someone else say that the biblical "god" was NOT all powerfull.
An omnipotent-allpowerfull GOD..... IMO is a mythical creature.



That's why the meme floating around out there that the Biblical was really no more then another being that evolved elsewhere in this Universe just ahead of us enough to "play god" here with the evolving humans. Call me nuts, whatever, it makes more sense then anything else on the table now and also explains why the Old Testament said "WE" created man in our image. "We" would explain a group of intelligent beings that evolved somewhat similar to us and were just ahead. There is just to much shit in the Bible about chariots coming from the heavens.

Who is to say that every angel and what not that came and spoke to the people in the name of "God" were not also of ET origin that figured out dematerialization and rematerialization and time travel. No one can prove that idea wrong.

FYI, most of you know I explore in the realms of the existence of intelligent life in this universe beyond humans. As far as I have understood, they have no freaking idea what set creation, evolution, math and consciousness into play either. Maybe some thought that by playing god, they could get in the head of the Creative force and intelligence behind all of this to understand it better. I dunno. Maybe the group responsible for the Biblical stuff are just power mongers playing games here to pass he time.

Maybe they think by watching us, they will get some answers to explain themselves to themselves at least.

But if that's what is going on, it would explain why "that" God -gods, of religions are not characteristic of omni presence etc, rather are just others beings of the multiverse who have evolved further along then humans have. No one can prove that theory wrong so it remains a working theory to me as it makes the most sense to me so far.

And maybe they wern't power mongers. Maybe humans took what info they were given and twisted and manipulated it to power trip on other humans and the ET's decided to sit back and let it be out of repsect for free will and decided to watch what came of it.




Some might find this interesting, others just one more fake piece of paper, you name it :
http://www.proaxis.com/~deardorj/index.htm

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: Swami]
    #3985427 - 03/29/05 01:09 PM (19 years, 3 days ago)

Swami, I thought you'd get a chuckle out of this:


TAIPEI, Taiwan -- A frame grab from video shows a lion attacking a man who jumped into the animal's enclosure and shouted "Jesus will save you" at the Taipei Zoo. The man, identified only by his surname, Chen, suffered from bite marks on his arms and legs. "He took this dangerous action today because he imagined he heard voices," psychiatrist Teng Hui-wen told reporters, saying his case was still being investigated. (11/03/04 AP photo)




--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3985780 - 03/29/05 02:15 PM (19 years, 3 days ago)

...ok get to the point..was the lion saved by Jesus or not??
:wink:


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3985786 - 03/29/05 02:17 PM (19 years, 3 days ago)

I read the final report on the case and YES, Jesus saved the lions from that crazy man.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: MAIA]
    #3985788 - 03/29/05 02:17 PM (19 years, 3 days ago)

Even though I accept this idea/dircetion as being logical,
I think this guy is a fake all the way to his pants


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3988127 - 03/29/05 10:35 PM (19 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Zekebomb said:
Unlikely that Jesus is God

isn't the claim to the effect that Jesus is the SON of God? I don't think anyone ever claimed that Jesus was omniscient.



Most Christian denominations believe that Jesus was both God and the Son of God. He is part of the trinity that is God. Only a few sects, like the Jehovah's Witnesses, believe Jesus was just the Son of God, and not God himself.


--------------------

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: Silversoul]
    #3988228 - 03/29/05 10:55 PM (19 years, 3 days ago)

Seems that few really tackled the issue that I presented. If one were to know that one's teachings would be misued by future generations to the detriment of many, would you still preach anyway?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Offlineseerbeer
Stranger
Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 2
Loc: Olympia, WA, USA
Last seen: 19 years, 3 days
Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: Silversoul]
    #3988299 - 03/29/05 11:11 PM (19 years, 3 days ago)



The Prayer that Jesus Taught


It occurs to me that if an everyday Christian were to come to a true understanding of what Jesus was teaching in the prayer that has come to be known as "The Lord's Prayer," that that Christian would become prepared for some serious growth along spiritual lines. For it does seem to me that the saddest part of Christianity today is that portion of it which still revels in fundamentalist interpretations of exclusivity. And there is nothing to be found in this prayer which supports religious exclusivity. The world is too small now for the attitude which states, "my religion is the right religion and the only right way to turn in God's direction, and therefore, your religion is wrong!." It matters not whether it springs from the Christian Faith, the Muslim Faith, the Hebrew Faith, the Hindu, Siek, or Buddhist Faith, or from any other faith, such an attitude divides the world of humanity in a way that defies the Spirit of Truth when one considers that the qualities of what it means to say 'God' simply must include the qualities of Perfect Love, Perfect Understanding, Perfect Wisdom, and Absolute Truth.

An ever increasing understanding of the totality of the world's religions, rather than continuing to allow for attitudes of exclusivity, point out that there is a common thread running through them all which gives credence to more than one learned Guru's teachings that "Truth is One, Paths are Many." Today there are readily available to all of us the writings of Muslim Sufis, Rumi and Hazrat Inayat Khan, the Hindu writings of Swami Vivekinanda, Swami Sabramuniyaswami, and a variety of other Satgurus, and the Buddhist writings of Chogyam Trungpa and others as well as the sayings of the Buddha Himself. No one reading in these writings with an open mind could realistically state that Christians have the only answers concerning what it means to grow along spiritual lines. In fact, open-mindedness is becoming almost a requirement to prevent the fighting of the Spirit of Truth which Jesus spoke against to the point of calling it the "only unforgivable sin."

Jesus was well aware of what attitudes were required within a human in order to walk daily with a "Father God" of Perfect Love, Understanding, Wisdom, and Truth, which placed that walker in a position of being in the only heaven any human being need ever know. He taught that in order to acquire the attitudes allowing that daily walking with God a human would need to open his mind to the point where everything he used to believe important in being alive would fall out. In other words, a 'new birth' of the human is required. He knew the attitudes required to be in heaven because he lived them, and he further knew how he came to be living them.

Open-minded Christians have the opportunity today to peruse the writings of learned biblical scholars with no axe to grind who have diligently studied the words attributed to Jesus in order to determine, honestly,open mindedly, and learnedly what Jesus actually said and what was most probably added in later years in order to solidify the power of the early Chirstian leaders, and/or, in order to strengthen the church structure. It is in the perusal of these open-minded writings that one can come to see that Jesus was not giving orders on how one should live in order to attain some heavenly environment after death. He was rather pointing out what attitudes required changing within the human so that he could be in heaven as much of the time as he wanted to be in heaven right in the present. And in the prayer he gave to all of us humans, any and all of us who are willing to make use of it; Christian or otherwise, he summed up his teachings.

To receive the proper sense of what is happening within this prayer, one needs to see it as an acknowledgement of the spiritual truth of what is going on on earth on a daily basis. It is a prayer of surrender to 'what is,' and in no way a prayer of supplication to what one wishes will someday 'come about.'

He begins the prayer with the all inclusive, "'Our Father ,' Who art in heaven." as it would be ridiculous to believe that 'Father God' can in anyway be owned by one religion or another any more than could "Mother Nature."

"Hallowed be Thy Name," and, Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven sets the tone for what portion of life we are dealing with here. If God be Holy, then all that is Holy is of God and all that is of God is Holy. Then, immediately, we are acknowledging that everything we do, all that we think, see and feel, are a part of the kingdom of God. Whether we are attending to earthly matters or 'spiritual matters' we are always within the kingdom of God. No longer is there to be a place where we enter God's realm and the rest of the time live outside of God's realm. We need to bring into our awareness that we are constantly living within God's kingdom and that whether or not we are getting our way in our lives, God is always getting God's way in our lives. When we pray, Thy will (not my will) be done we are very much surrendering to the attitude we need to maintain in order to walk through life with serenity of spirit, peace of mind, and a sense of being at home in the universe on a daily basis.

Now why will the reader balk at that paragraph above? Simply because it doesn't ring true to anyone who is sure he/she knows what is good and what is evil. [the 'he/she' will end here, the writer is simply acknowledging that he is aware of the English Language disparity] Those who know what is good and what is evil are used to dividing the world's activities between Satan (evil) driven and God (good) driven forces. Yet this is not the world of which Jesus taught. No more stoning the adultress. No more looking down on the prodigal son. No more thinking it is important to properly bury one's father with months and months of ceremonies. Jesus was pointing back to the God of Eden, and saying, "you can have that Perfect Father God in your lives once again if you are willing to give up your knowledge of good and evil." And it is still true today. You still can. Is it not silly for Christians to take with deadly seriousness the attitudes and statements attributed to concepts of God of which earlier humans made use after they decided they knew what was good and what was evil while theologically dancing their way out of obeying almost the first words out of the mouth of Perfectly Loving, Understanding, Wise, and Truthful God who ordered that humans, while being able to learn of all matters of which they are interested in learning, must never get the idea that they can know what is good and what is evil (because once they are sure they have that knowledge they cannot walk in the Garden with a Perfectly Loving God until they once again cast out that knowledge)? God's original mandate to man has never changed, and Jesus saw that most clearly. His teaching can readily be seen to be, Forget the rules, just learn how to love one another as I love you. He was certainly not admonishing his followers to act as if they loved one another, which is only dishonest foolishness, but was rather teaching them to change their attitudes concerning what is important in being alive to the point where they would truly have the capacity to love one another

And how will those attitudes get changed? Can we force them to change? Can we make ourselves capable of loving our fellow human beings? We cannot . . . but Truth can . . . and it's past time to let it. Two of perhaps many questions which come to mind when reading the words of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount are why are the meek and poor in spirit blessed, and how does one become one of these. And the question (1) answer is because the meek and poor in spirit (allowing for minor changes across time for word and phrase meaning) are those who are willingly humble. They do not get upset when they don't get their way. They do not need to 'get even' when they are treated unjustly, and they do not need to become anything because they are aware that they already are all they need to be.

Humility of spirit is what allows us to have peace of mind and a sense of being at home in the universe on a daily basis no matter what is going on around us. And thus do the meek and poor in spirit always walk among us in a blessed state. The question (2) answer is, the way to those attitudinal changes which allow us to joyfully become meek and poor in spirit is to acquire more of the blessed quality of humility into our lives. And increased humility, believe it or not, is simply and easily acquired.

Granting God the capacity to love us perfectly and understand us perfectly ( by actually getting within our spirits and knowing that there are many areas of our lives in which we wish we could improve our actions, but cannot), does it not make sense that God wants us to learn how to feel really good all day every day? Would the way be difficult and at times near impossible, or would the way be extremely simple and available to all who are willing to opt for meekness of bearing and poorness of spirit? Do you see it? It is not that the way to heaven is difficult to find, it is that if we cannot remain special and highly competitive with an eye to winning the game and always striving to be more than just one of the masses, we don't want to go there.

But there is good reason to go there. It is the only way to freedom from a state of self-will run riot, selfishness, and self centeredness, with all the loneliness and mental anguish associated with living in the bonds of those egoistic conditions. It matters not whether I am Muslim, Hebrew, Buddhist, Hindu, Siek, Taoist, Shinto, or Christian, Atheis, or Agnostic, being moved by truth from egoism towards humility is the only way out. It is the only way to the heaven of serenity of spirit, peace of mind, and a sense of being at home in the universe on a daily basis.

Humbling truths surround me on a daily basis, and while the 'way' that Jesus taught is certainly not the only way to amass increased humility into my life his way is certainly one of the easier ways. When I agree to base all of my reasoning on the premise that I am living in God's Kingdom, rather than God dwelling in a portion of my kingdom, the internalizing of humbling truths becomes the wisdom associated with those words in the prayer of Jesus, "Give us this day our daily bread." With these words we are stating our willingness to internalize those truths.

Humbling Truth is the food for our souls. Our souls grow ever closer to becoming Perfect Love, Understanding, Wisdom, and Truth as we continue on a daily basis to internalize our daily bread of humbling truths. And there is no force feeding required. It is the fighting of internalizing those truths which cause our upsets of all kinds and which leads to an ever increasing degree of mental anguish within us. I need only desire to be free from mental anguish (if at the cost of my great sense of importance) to make use of a simple feedback system which puts me in accord with internalizing humbling truths.

Let us imagine that as I walk through my day I meet a situation whereby I am being unjustly treated and cannot negatively react to that unjust treatment without causing myself more trouble. Old attitudes toward what is important in being alive inform me that I have a right to be miserable. But the new base for my reasoning that I am living in God's kingdom and that God knows how to make my soul grow and I do not, and that God wants me to learn new attitudes which will maintain my state of serenity of spirit, peace of mind, and a sense of being at home in the universe, causes me to lose my right to be miserable and rather trust that God is putting me through an experience that I need to go through in order to grow along spiritual lines. If at this point, I am willing to let my ego defenses drop sufficiently, I will, by making God's will for me more important than the fact that I am not getting my way, return to a state of serenity of spirit having acquired a bit more humility than I had before the incident occured.

As I continue to make use of that feedback system and note how much better I am beginning to feel about being alive I will see for myself that my ego-defense system is not, in fact, the friend I always thought it to be (if, in fact, God wants me to feel good all day every day). Thus will I become ever increasingly more willing to have that system decay as I continue to make use of this new feedback system in order to stay free from first, the right to be miserable, and then (since there is no reward for the ego in maintaining misery within me if I don't have a right to the misery) losing the feelings of misery themselves.

Thus it is a spiritual feedback system designed to keep me free from mental anguish that makes me ready and willing to internalize my daily bread of humbling truths, while this system, also, leaves me nothing to be proud about in pursuing its execution.

Moving further into the prayer, it has been pointed out by Bible Scholars that Jesus Called God by a term roughly translated into 'Daddy.' Can there be any doubt that Jesus as earlier here stated, had in fact returned to the Garden of Eden and was again walking in the garden with Perfectly Loving God as he walked through life? His teachings point out that God will forgive any sin we have ever committed, and He taught that the only unforgivable sin was the blaspheming of the Spirit of Truth (He used the terms, Holy Spirit or Ghost and Spirit of Truth interchangeably). And it is the Spirit of Truth that informs us that if we desire to feel the forgiveness of our sins we can use God's qualities of perfect Love and understanding to feel that forgiveness, but only so long as we afford those who we feel we have a right to resent that same access to God's Perfect Love. We cannot feel ourselves free from what we have done to others which we can't make amends for unless we cease to resent those who have been unable to obey the golden rule in their dealings with us. And therefore, the phrase, Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us is nothing more than our agreeing that we are willing to let the Spirit of Truth work in our lives to take away our right to live with resentments towards others in order to feel the freedom from our past mistakes which allows us to maintain our daily state of serenity of spirit, peace of mind, and a sense of being at home in the universe.

As a result of making use of the simple spiritual feedback system (always based on the new foundation for my reasoning that God is walking me through this business of living and providing me with precisely those experiences which afford me growth along spiritual lines) the humbling truth deflates my ego (while giving me nothing to take credit for other than having sufficient common sense to want to stay free from mental anguish), and my ego neediness is similarly deflated. The day comes when my ego neediness is not driving me to do self defeating things that I used to 'need' to do, and I discover that more and more of my time is taken up with helping others feel better about being alive (both at work and at leisure), because I have learned how to feel good about being alive as much of the time as I want to feel good about being alive. Thus, do the next words of the prayer become truth in my life.

Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil is an aknowledgement of what is happening to us as we grow along spiritual lines. We are not tempted to take credit for how "good" we are becoming, but the feedback process leads us to freedom from our old obsessive/compulsive behaviors associated with our ego-neediness which caused hurt to both ourselves and others. Thus, can it not be seen that it is God (as the Spirit of Truth at this point) Who must receive full credit for first freeing us from the bondage of self and resultantly for our newfound capacity to love and our newfound desire to serve others?

Finally, holding the above paragraph within our psyches, is it any wonder that the final words of the prayer are just as they are (Whether added by some wise soul after the fact or simply stated by Jesus at a different time - since surely he publicly taught this prayer which sums up his teachings so well more than once): For Thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory forever, Amen Yes, it might seem that I am editorializing a bit with the underlining of Thine. Yet, when one sees that 'Thine' means 'Yours,' how else can one believe it should be stated, when the insistance is that it is not me who has accomplished any transformation within myself, but always the making use of God's perfect love, understanding, wisdom and truth which has accomplished the transformation?

Thus have we found, within this well used prayer, the stuff of the mystics. We have found the way to the Treasure in the field and the Pearl of Great Price. We have found the way to Serenity of Spirit, Peace of Mind, and a sense of being at home in the universe on a daily basis. Willingness to work the principles behind this prayer move us rapidly (rather than grudgingly slowly) along the continuum from egoism towards humility, granting us an ever enlarging capacity for loving and wanting to serve our fellow human beings. Thereby, in making use of this prayer, will any Christian, any other religious, and even any non-religious come to find himself at one with the single commandment of the Teacher Jesus. I.e., "And this is my commandment, That ye love one another."

Blessings - seerbeer


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Humility to Love to Service to FREEDOM

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Offlinesignoffate
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Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: seerbeer]
    #3988570 - 03/30/05 12:39 AM (19 years, 3 days ago)

I would read all that... but its late, sorry.  Essays take coffee!

jESUS is gOD in the sense that God is Jesus, being JESUS.

If all is god... am I being God or is GOD being me? :confused:

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Offlinesignoffate
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well I Guess, [Re: signoffate]
    #3988760 - 03/30/05 01:44 AM (19 years, 3 days ago)

all alone,
your the only one.
But...
with no one around
to make the sound,
that fills your mind
from the first time
you opened you eyes
to see the demise
of all that you prize:
Lies, defeat,
wait, they cheat!

..delete..

here take this beat,
it aint complete
just a bit of heat on a sheet
faint
just about complete.

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Re: well I Guess, [Re: signoffate]
    #3988944 - 03/30/05 03:06 AM (19 years, 3 days ago)

well, Jesus taught that he did'nt know all things, he said God the father knows all things, and one of the things he taught was that many will come in his name and use it for evil,,it's kinda like God thinking "should i send someone to teach and save a small number of people? or should i just say fuck them all?",,so through out history, like jesus said, many did evil in his name, however, many where also "saved" by the same scripture, so is it better for all the world to go to hell with out his words, or is better for some to be saved by his words at the cost of many evil people miss useing his word? it seems he chose the second one, it's better some, than none, it seems..

the same question can be asked about the old testement, why would God give his word if, being all knowing, knew they would use it for evil by the pharisees and sauducees?


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.

Edited by JCoke (03/30/05 03:20 AM)

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OfflineLux
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Re: well I Guess, [Re: JCoke]
    #3989013 - 03/30/05 04:17 AM (19 years, 3 days ago)

I see Jesus in a much more human sense. I believe it was his wisdom which led to him saying his name would be corrupted, but not any type of seeing into the future which could tell him to what extent it has been. There are those who will blindly follow what is presented to them as holy truth, the weak, who will either become stronger and find their own spiritual path, or metaphorically speaking die and live their life in ignorance. I am very happy to see seerbeer's post, this is what I have ever been saying, look into the essence of things, seek for yourself and recognize the poetic and metaphoric tongue which the mystics speak with.

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Re: well I Guess, [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3989562 - 03/30/05 09:46 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Here is something about god almighty..

ezekiel..

"As I looked, a stormwind came from the North, a huge cloud with flashing fire (enveloped in brightness), from the midst of which (the midst of the fire) something gleamed like electrum.

Within it were figures resembling four living creatures that looked like this: their form was human,
but each had four faces and four wings,
and their legs went straight down; the soles of their feet were round. They sparkled with a gleam like burnished bronze. "

more ezekiel..

"As I looked at the living creatures, I saw wheels on the ground, one beside each of the four living creatures.
The wheels had the sparkling appearance of chrysolite, and all four of them looked the same: they were constructed as though one wheel were within another.
They could move in any of the four directions they faced, without veering as they moved.
The four of them had rims, and I saw that their rims were full of eyes all around.
When the living creatures moved, the wheels moved with them; and when the living creatures were raised from the ground, the wheels also were raised.
Wherever the spirit wished to go, there the wheels went, and they were raised together with the living creatures; for the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels.
Over the heads of the living creatures, something like a firmament could be seen, seeming like glittering crystal, stretched straight out above their heads.
Beneath the firmament their wings were stretched out, one toward the other. (Each of them had two covering his body.)
Then I heard the sound of their wings, like the roaring of mighty waters, like the voice of the Almighty. When they moved, the sound of the tumult was like the din of an army. (And when they stood still, they lowered their wings.)
Above the firmament over their heads something like a throne could be seen, looking like sapphire. Upon it was seated, up above, one who had the appearance of a man.
Upward from what resembled his waist I saw what gleamed like electrum; downward from what resembled his waist I saw what looked like fire; he was surrounded with splendor.
Like the bow which appears in the clouds on a rainy day was the splendor that surrounded him. Such was the vision of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. When I had seen it, I fell upon my face and heard a voice that said to me:
Son of man, stand up! I wish to speak with you. "

Pretty cool if you ask me, people must have been terrified
But still I envy them, I wish I could get a ride in one of those


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3990841 - 03/30/05 02:41 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

I think that you are on to something, but you are still caught in a literal interpretation of Hebrew 'midrash.' In Our Christ: Revolt of the Mystical Genius, written by Constantin Brunner in 1921 and recently rediscovered (the Nazis burned all the originals), the author calls Christ "godless," and by this he means that the GOD with which Jesus said 'I and the Father are One,' is not the mythologized, anthropomorphized "thingy" GOD described in the Bible. Christ is the Oneness with Being (the Father). Brunner was saying what the Gnostics were saying by calling the 'limited' GOD the Demiurge, and refusing to acknowledge Him as the ONE True Ground of Being whence everything derives.

The grasp of the 'True GOD' or the 'GOD beyond GOD' demands a higher-than-average degree of spiritual maturity. Brunner refers to these (without being arrogant, which would nullify true, humble spirituality) as the "spiritual elite." Gnostics called these people "Pneumatics" [Spiritual]. The rest of the people Brunner refers to as "the multitudes." Those are the people who live by 'faith and works,' rather than spiritual insight (which the Gnostics called "Psychics" as opposed to "Pneumatics"). The spiritual elite for Brunner are the mystics, the greatest of which (after Christ) was Meister Eckhardt. Such individuals recognized their True Identity as Being Itself - the Unspeakable, Incomprehensible Mystery which is found no less at one's own Human Core than in some distant point in 'Heaven.'


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (04/01/05 03:54 PM)

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: Swami]
    #3990889 - 03/30/05 02:47 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

But what if you knew that war and distortion was a necessary part of the cycle to completeness and gaining wisdom?
"learning from your mistakes" so to speak


--------------------

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Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3990959 - 03/30/05 02:58 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

My best guess would be that the higher god is the actual one-ness of the universe, and the lower god, the god that was contacting people, the lord that sent his son, and the lord that made humans, is some alien civilisation.
So bible is full of mixed use of the word father and god, sometimes it has spiritual meaning and other times it has a specific technical meaning.

To the old man it was pretty dificult to distinguish an all powerfull universal god from some group of "magicians" with high-tech toys.
So two gods blended into one god, and there you have it a book full of contradictions. I think if we knew a bit more of what was really going on there in those times, bible would make perfect sense, every verse of it.

If a philosopher went to a distand island where people never saw technology, with a plane, and landed there, and talked to them about the philosophical god, the spirit of the universe, how would they ever distinguish the technology the priest is using from the magic he is talking about?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3990974 - 03/30/05 03:03 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

I want to jump in here as I touched on a similar understanding with you wood. Mine is that some crude form of human was evolving here on Earth before they found it. It's my understanding that during the gaps in Darwins theory, which he admitted that there was not enough time for the leaps fossils made to have occurred on their own, they ETs added some of their genetics and what not.

That where the part about "WE" created Man, from out of what ever first was evolving here on earth, in "our" image.

of course, it is just a theory that explains the Bible and what not best to me. I can't prove it.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3991048 - 03/30/05 03:22 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Whereas creation itself speaks for intelligent design and an intelligent designer, I find no evidence for 'beings' - alien to Earth having a hand in the process. People here have concluded at times that the Biblical 'Elohim' - the feminine plural Name of GOD with the masculine ending used before creation (vs. YHVH used as the Name after creation) were a race of created beings. I am speaking of creation in terms of existence in toto - all 'things' included, and the Divine Source - That from which The Singularity emerged, out of which the Big Bang proceeded.

I make it a point to not confuse the physical with the metaphysical, and I stay vigilant on that line since it also means not confusing creation with its Creator-Creatrix.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (05/01/06 02:46 PM)

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3991063 - 03/30/05 03:25 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Whereas creation itself speaks for intelligent design and an intelligent designer, I find no evidence for 'beings' - alien to Earth having a hand in the process. People here have concluded at times that the Biblical 'Elohim' - the feminine Name of GOD with the plural ending used before creation (vs. YHVH used as the Name after creation) were a race of created beings. I am speaking of creation in terms of existence in toto - all 'things' included, and the Divine Source - That from which The Singularity emerged, out of which the Big Bang proceeded.

I make it a point to not confuse the physical with the metaphysical, and I stay vigilant on that line since it also means not confusing creation with its Creator-Creatrix.




I believe that in the begining, creation of earth life was mistaken for creation of the universe


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3991068 - 03/30/05 03:27 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
I want to jump in here as I touched on a similar understanding with you wood. Mine is that some crude form of human was evolving here on Earth before they found it. It's my understanding that during the gaps in Darwins theory, which he admitted that there was not enough time for the leaps fossils made to have occurred on their own, they ETs added some of their genetics and what not.

That where the part about "WE" created Man, from out of what ever first was evolving here on earth, in "our" image.

of course, it is just a theory that explains the Bible and what not best to me. I can't prove it.




I was thinking that too, but after carefull reading of the bible, now I'm thinking more of terraforming, creation of ecosystems and man in the end


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3992156 - 03/30/05 07:36 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

I cannot prove anything I say in this post

"Elohim" or Anunnaki is considered by some to be of the Nephilim, who, with the aid and permission of the Sirians, Pleiadians and the Galactic Council.. genetically altered a more primitive form of human that existed naturally on Earth at the time. Cosmically speaking, this would make the Nephilim our patriarch and the Sirians our motherly figure. Evolution mixes with Creation and you get even more unlikely events. Then there were human souls who came here from the last planetary incarnation which they destroyed and is now the meteor belt. And probably even a few who came from very far away to settle.

The Nephilim is mentioned in the Old Testament as seeding the Earth more or less... (There were giants in the Earth in those days....) The Roman Empire also emulated much of the Nephilim fashion, structure, and technology.

Jesus was a 10th+ dimensional being from the Pleiades who was sent here to re-implant the memory of ascension into the akashic records of the mass consciousness here on Earth.

The Ark of the Covenant was full of uranium? The dead sea was the first nuclear explosion here on Earth.. back in Abraham's time.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: Shroomism]
    #3992206 - 03/30/05 07:47 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

But what about revelations? If these creatures made us only by altering what was already here, where do they find right to burn the entire ecosystem and poison all the oceans in the end?


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3992255 - 03/30/05 07:59 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

I thought we were the ones burning the ecosystem and poisoning the oceans?


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: Shroomism]
    #3992293 - 03/30/05 08:10 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Not nearly as much as is described...

It is described that ALL life in oceans will die in one pass,
that no mountain on earth shall stay in its place etc. etc.
People will be tortured for 5 months by, they will ask for death but get no death, after that they will be killed pretty grim
Sadistic even, the worse text in the bible


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3992328 - 03/30/05 08:18 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

oh yeah. The whole "the stars reel back and a third of the rivers turn red".. that whole deal sounds more like a sudden pole shift than anything else I can think of.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: Shroomism]
    #3992672 - 03/30/05 09:41 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

There are always those 'chariots of the gods' type thinkers who are essentially materialistic reductionists, and who wish to explain scriptural writings by interpreting them only as historical events - even events in which their Mysteries are reduced to extraterrestrial, yet physical life-forms. If the understanding of scriptural writings was made clear to these interpreters, namely, the midrashic style of ancient Hebrews, they would not attempt to project their modernist and sci-fi views upon ancient writings.

I agree about multi-dimensional beings - not from a sci-fi view, but rather from a spiritual view. The "giants" mentioned once in the Bible derive from the Books of Enoch, the first of which is a mythos of the fallen angels, their lust for human women, and the hybrid "giants" their mating produced. I have encountered individuals at this forum who claimed to be Nephilim - an interesting variation of a Christ delusion in all probability.

The interpretation of myth, of dreams and of visionary states should not be construed as a primitive, prescientific explanation of physical-historical events. There are apparent references - if only in carved illustrations - of what might be taken for extraterrestrial visitors (we must respect the powers of astronomical observation of many ancient peoples: Druids, Chaldeans, etc.), and if these peoples wanted it to be clear that 'beings' were space-time travelers in vehicles rather than 'beings' belonging to a spiritual hierarchy, they assuredly could have done so. On the other hand, if seemingly embodied 'beings' were seen to 'beam down' so-to-speak, then transdimensional and spiritual would no doubt be impossible to differentiate. Nevertheless, scriptural references, until shown to be otherwise, ought to be interpreted along psychospiritual lines, not physical lines.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: Swami]
    #3993212 - 03/31/05 12:00 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
If one were to know that one's teachings would be misued by future generations to the detriment of many, would you still preach anyway?





Yes.


You cant control what people do with information.

Some will try and turn it in to a money making business....others will take it for the guidance it was intended for.


Keeping the information a secret because of a few bad people is kinda foolish.


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Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: niteowl]
    #3993275 - 03/31/05 12:12 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

Swami said:
If one were to know that one's teachings would be misued by future generations to the detriment of many, would you still preach anyway?





Yes.


You cant control what people do with information.

Some will try and turn it in to a money making business....others will take it for the guidance it was intended for.


Keeping the information a secret because of a few bad people is kinda foolish.



This begs the question: Would the world be better or worse off without Christianity. Despite the amount of violence that it inspired, Christians have also done many good things for the world. Many charities today are Christian, and several Christians such as Mother Theresa have gone to great lengths to fight poverty. Whether on balance it's a net gain or a net loss, I don't know. I wouldn't entirely discount the possibility that Christianity may have made the world a better place overall.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: Silversoul]
    #3993367 - 03/31/05 12:32 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

When "people" turn a "teaching" into an "organized religion"..........that is when the trouble starts.







I believe the "teachings" of the Christian bible, but dont consider myself to be a "christian". I do not believe them to all be historical FACTS .......just stories with a moral point.


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Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: Swami]
    #3993651 - 03/31/05 02:37 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
If I were to start some teachings (even though true and of a higher order)




What about the splitting of the atom?


This is both true and of a high order.



Quote:

that I KNEW (omnisicence) would be distorted and twisted in future generations by power brokers to torture and suppress and wage war,





Good and bad can come from this truth.

War and cheap energy.



Quote:

I would keep my mouth shut out of compassion.  :heart:





I would still bring the truth out. :cheers:



Its going to come out eventually.



May as well put MY name in the history books.  :shrug:






...


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Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: niteowl]
    #3993778 - 03/31/05 04:26 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

I quote Paramahansa Yogananda from the "Second coming of Christ" - The resurrection of the Christ Within You.

Quote:


There is a distinguishing difference of meaning between Jesus and Christ. His give name was Jesus; his honorific tittle was "Christ". In his little human body called Jesus was born the vast Christ Consciousness, the omniscient intelligence of God omnipresent in every part and particle of creation. This Consciousness is the "only begotten Son of God," so designated because it is the sole perfect reflection in creation of the Transcendental Absolute, Spirit or God the Father.


It was of that Infinite Consciousness, replete with love and bliss of God, that Saint John spoke when he said: "As many as received him [the Christ Consciousness], to them gave he power to become the sons of God." * Thus according to Jesus' own teachings as recorded by his most highly advanced apostle, John, all souls who become united with the Christ Consciousness by intuitive Self-realization are rightly called sons of God.





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"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4006073 - 04/02/05 06:42 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)



A little addition to my views on the matter before this thread goes to graveyard of threads


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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OfflineDroz
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Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4006136 - 04/02/05 07:00 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

OldWoodSpecter - But could you not believe by being with jesus you are one step closer to God? Jesus was giving gifts. For who not but the creator has giving him these gifts.


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Evolution of Time.

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OfflineDroz
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Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4006140 - 04/02/05 07:01 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

OldWoodSpecter - But could you not believe by being with jesus you are one step closer to God? Jesus was giving gifts. For who not but the creator has giving him these gifts. Maybe the God of the sun has all those gifts.


--------------------
Evolution of Time.

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Unlikely that Jesus is God [Re: Droz]
    #4006153 - 04/02/05 07:06 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

And enlightened alien is no different from some spiritual being comming from the other side. The message is the same, nothing changes.


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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