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Invisibleagar
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SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER * 3
    #3982155 - 03/28/05 11:18 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)



All the time, I see numerous questions about how long should I soak - WBS - or this or that grain, or various combinations of grains.

The function of soaking any grain, is to allow it to absorb it?s maximum natural capacity of moisture, without germinating the seed, or allowing it to rot.

12 hours works sometimes, 24 hours works, so does 36 hours.

The point of this post is - TIME isn?t all that important.

The amount of moisture absorbed by the grains - IS.

HOW YOU CAN TELL WHEN WBS/GRAINS HAVE ABSORBED MAXIMUM MOISTURE.

As any dry WBS/grain absorbs moisture, it expands in size. When it STOPS expanding, it has absorbed it?s approximate maximum natural moisture capacity. Some grains absorb moisture much faster than others, due to the type, and hardness of their hull, as well as the size of individual grains.

Naturally, mixtures of differing WBS/grains in the same soak container, expand at differing rates. A general rule of thumb is that all dry WBS/grains - as they absorb moisture - expand in size 20 to 30 percent . Then stop, because they are fully hydrated .

WHAT THIS MEANS IS: If you are going to soak WBS/grains to hydrate them.

Fill a container 2/3rds, to ? full of the dry WBS/grain, then add enough water to cover them. Then watch the WBS/grain mixture over time (inspect after 5 or 6 hours). If you only added enough water to just cover the WBS/grains, you will note - as they expand. The WBS/grains will enlarge, pushing itself up above the previous surface water level in the container. Add more water, so the WBS/grains remain submerged (exclusive of floaters).

Once the WBS/grain has completely stopped expanding. It has reached its approximate natural moisture retention capacity. Soaking it longer, does no harm. So long as it doesn?t germinate, begin to badly ferment, or rot.

SO, THERE YOU HAVE IT.

THE ANSWER TO THE OFTEN ASKED PROVERBIAL QUESTION OF HOW LONG TO SOAK WBS/GRAINS IS?????..
NO SET TIME.

SOAK, (AT LEAST)--- UNTIL THE WBS/GRAIN COMPLETLY STOPS EXPANDING (which generally ranges from 12 to 36 hours under normal room temperature conditions).

Experience has taught me this rule of thumb.

By filling a soak container 2/3rds to ? full of dry WBS/grains, then adding water enough to almost fill the container. Once the WBS/grain content has expanded to the point the container is nearly FULL & the content stops expanding any appreciable amount. It is at or very near to being fully hydrated. However, I allow it to soak it a few hours longer, to insure it is.

LEARN TENACITY - HAVE PATIANCE.
WITHOUT IT - YOU WILL NOT SUCCED AT THIS HOBBY.
]


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Offlinepsilocyben
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: agar]
    #3982387 - 03/28/05 11:54 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

way to be proactive agar-
your time was not spent in vain as i am sure that this will answer more than one person's question.

i was not blessed with patience, although, i must say that i have acquired a taste for it.

thanks


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: psilocyben]
    #3982417 - 03/28/05 11:59 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Lol at final answer. You know you'll get asked the same question again in a few days...he he


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: RogerRabbit] * 1
    #3982552 - 03/29/05 12:17 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

well too bad i soaked for 18 hours and my seed didnt suck up shit.


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Invisibleagar
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: psilocyben]
    #3982654 - 03/29/05 12:34 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyben said:
way to be proactive agar-
your time was not spent in vain as i am sure that this will answer more than one person's question.

i was not blessed with patience, although, i must say that i have acquired a taste for it.

thanks




Successful cultivation is based on a degree of knowledge, ability, circumstance, means & art. Normally, no two cultivation circumstance are identical. Meaning, everyone?s circumstance differs to the degree - what works for one person, doesn?t for another. Which creates inherent difficulties in answering individuals questions.

Just like this topic. Some say soak, others say soak - then simmer. I am a believer in - simple - is better & the less labor & steps involved - the better. Soaking - by itself - works for me. Soaking, then simmering works for others.

The object is to get the moisture content of WBS/Grains OPTIMAL

To dry, colonization is slow, often stalls & stops. To wet, colonization slows, stalls & bacterial type contamination often sets in.

The ART of the matter is FINDING WHAT WORKS FOR YOU - IN YOUR INDIVIUAL CIRCUMSTANCE. Even though the method may differ from others, or even the majority.

With soaking alone, to short a soak results in to dry a mix. With a soak & simmer, often grains burst open, get to wet, or result in a mix with starch/sludge in it.

The art is finding a method - you can succeed - with.

Both work.

Sadly - some do not have the patiance to experiment & find out - for themselves - what works for them. Then rely on "questionable" methods & fail.


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Invisibleidiotek
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: agar]
    #3982690 - 03/29/05 12:41 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

i've PC'd popcorn kernels and had them soak up a LOT of water, and then made jars right afterward.. had ready-to-noc jars without having to wait for soaking after like 2 hours tops.. not including wait-time for the cooling off afterward..

they also worked very well and colonized quickly/normally..

would this leech any nutrients out of the substrate?


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OfflineStrange_Design
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: tahoe]
    #3982701 - 03/29/05 12:42 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

then you have some weird seed tahoe ^^, and i would like to fully endorse agar's notions here, used much the same, for a long while and it always comes out right.

perfect description, sometimes noted measures, like 2/3 then expansion. are better than just soak for 24 etc. having something to look at, and look for, really helps someone who might be new at doing this.

nice way to put it and will help many i am sure.

well done..


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Invisibleagar
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: tahoe]
    #3982798 - 03/29/05 12:56 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

tahoe said:
well too bad i soaked for 18 hours and my seed didnt suck up shit.




:eek: SHIT.......... :grin:

You are supposed to soak the seed in  :tongue2:WATER :tongue2:, not SHIT :smirk:

......... :wink: :grin:


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OfflineShortyMcAffy
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: agar]
    #3983870 - 03/29/05 04:03 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

agar what do you most commonly use to spawn. From the looks of it you like WBS, is this what you have found to be best for you?


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Invisibleagar
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: ShortyMcAffy]
    #3983929 - 03/29/05 04:19 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

SPAWN. It depends on cost, availability & what is on hand (at the moment). I generally stick with plain old WBS (Bird Basics Brand @ PetSmart 40lbs @ $8).

If you intend to use a grain as substrate. 60 / 70% WBS 30 / 40% RYE.

H/poo (weathered)& pasturized is prefered substrate. At least - at the moment - until I can get compost situated & going.


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OfflineShortyMcAffy
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: agar]
    #3983987 - 03/29/05 04:33 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Once the snow melts in my area, Im heading to my neighbors house and getting all of the horseshit i can. They have had horses for as long as I can remember so that means so dank horseshit should be around.


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Invisibleagar
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: ShortyMcAffy]
    #3984014 - 03/29/05 04:39 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

:thumbup: :wink:


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InvisibleMrMaddHatter
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: agar]
    #3984037 - 03/29/05 04:50 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

agar said:
LEARN TENACITY - HAVE PATIANCE.
WITHOUT IT - YOU WILL NOT SUCCED AT THIS HOBBY.
]




Patience is the secret to it all :crazy2: :thumbup:


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Invisibleagar
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: agar]
    #3996341 - 03/31/05 06:41 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

BUMP....  :wink:


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: agar]
    #4016023 - 04/05/05 07:47 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

:lol:


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InvisibleDK1
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER *DELETED* [Re: agar]
    #4021500 - 04/06/05 02:05 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Post deleted by DK1

Reason for deletion: I want to delete all my posts



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Offlineonetime
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: DK1]
    #4032831 - 04/09/05 01:10 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

i thiught that soaking was for the germination of the endo spores so that they will be weaker in the pressure cooker and die and that simmering was to add moisture as that is when they crack and the insides get nice and moist


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Invisibleagar
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: onetime]
    #4032851 - 04/09/05 01:18 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Besides hydration, SOAKING does germinate endospores. Then, PC'ing kills the bastards.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: onetime]
    #4032860 - 04/09/05 01:21 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

A soak helps with bacteria I think. I've recently been not soaking with a few batches, just simmering slow to get water content up or soaking in water rasied to a boil for a few hours and then simmering some more to finish getting water in..really very little contam rate...slightly higher then normal but I may have also PCed a batch a little less or something. No molds though, all bacteria.

A simmer shouldnt crack to many of the grains...personally, I like a few grains cracked though which I cant seem to get with soaking..even 48 hours...so I simmer too..soaked just didnt have enough water for me. Soaking DEFINATLY adds water though, along with germinating bacteria, and for some, this is enough.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
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Offlinelordoftheshroomz
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: agar]
    #4032872 - 04/09/05 01:26 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

agar said:
Then, PC'ing kills the bastards.



:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
for some reason that jus made me laugh


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Offlineplanit
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: lordoftheshroomz]
    #4032975 - 04/09/05 02:14 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

just to clear things up , i have a feew questions, 1: is the optimum water holding compacity of the seed is based on how mush it can absorb without bursting?
2: will the seed burst if soaked for too long ?


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OfflinekronnyQ
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: planit]
    #4032990 - 04/09/05 02:18 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Can I use a lifeline Regis?


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: planit]
    #4032993 - 04/09/05 02:19 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

1: is the optimum water holding compacity of the seed is based on how mush it can absorb without bursting?

Depends on who you ask and what your doing with it. If fruiting directly off it, IMO, yes. If spawning, pretty much, but maybe a little bit drier, and quite a bit drier is fine. Colonization is often just fine with a wide range of water...but when you fruit it, it can be to dry.

2: will the seed burst if soaked for too long ?

Not in water at room temp., but it will germinate.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Edited by scatmanrav (04/09/05 02:19 AM)


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4052752 - 04/14/05 01:34 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Woops :doh:

-Gnostic


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Offlinescarymidgets
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #4062155 - 04/16/05 12:47 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

im runnin a 22 quart pressure cooker its like 20 years old with a weight. It take the bastad like 30 mins to get to pressure. When i do wbs i notice at least a 30 % bursted seed. anytips?

tons of bursted seeds arent good right?


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Invisibleagar
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: scarymidgets]
    #4062192 - 04/16/05 01:02 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Sounds like your WBS may be a bit to WET, before you start. 1 or 2% bursted WBS isn't much of a problem, more than that becomes a bigger problem, the higher the percentage goes.

Busted seed creates sort of a starchy sludge, that is prone to bacterial contamination, slow colonization & makes the jars hard to shake (sludge is sticky).

You might try pre/heating your PC, then add the jars & PC lid W/weight so it builds pressure quicker. Other than that, I don't really know what to tell you.


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Offlinescarymidgets
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: agar]
    #4062228 - 04/16/05 01:17 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Cant hurt to try! I have this feelin that you are dead on. thanks for your tips ill post back here once i throw some more jars together.

the preheat thing was some common sense shit cant belive i didnt think of that~


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OfflineSammy
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: scarymidgets]
    #4066865 - 04/18/05 12:20 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

First time doing WBS.. i think just a few have bursted.. but I'm looking forward to this working!!! Thank you so much for the tips on how to soak the WBS correctly. I did an experimental first batch .. but didn't know exactly if i had done it correctly. Next time i'll be more sure (with the 9 remaining jars i intend to do) + tenn stud 50/50!

What an experiment!

Thanks
Sammy


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Offlinescarymidgets
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: Sammy]
    #4112172 - 04/29/05 08:01 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Preheating  worked like a  charm  anybody  with a  22  quart 20 year old PC  having problems  !  PREHEAT! 

thanks again agar :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2:


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OfflineSammy
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: scarymidgets]
    #4112186 - 04/29/05 08:07 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Here are the results of following this meathod of soaking:



and another jar



Thanks mang

Sam


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: Sammy]
    #4141650 - 05/06/05 12:00 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

You did well - SAMMY  :thumbup:



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OfflineFirstAvailable
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: agar]
    #4274687 - 06/09/05 04:27 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

agar said:
The function of soaking any grain, is to allow it to absorb it’s maximum natural capacity of moisture, without germinating the seed...





Quote:

agar said:
Besides hydration, SOAKING does germinate endospores. Then, PC'ing kills the bastards.




hu? so do you want to germinate or not?


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OfflineLengthyFellow
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: FirstAvailable]
    #4274697 - 06/09/05 04:32 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

You want to germinate endospores, but not the seed. in other words, you dont want the seed to sprout when you soak


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: FirstAvailable]
    #4274705 - 06/09/05 04:35 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

You don't want the seed/grain to germinate (as in sprout).

You do however want the ENDOSPORES inside the seed/grain to germinate.

en?do?spore (nd-sp?r)
n.
1. A small spore formed within the vegetative cells of some bacteria.
2. A fungus spore borne within a cell or within the tubular end of a sporophore.

In that way, PC sterilization has a much better chance of killing those nasty b*stards.


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: agar]
    #4274733 - 06/09/05 04:51 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

:rotfl:

I think I need a

dic?tio?nary

a reference book containing words usually alphabetically arranged along with information about their forms, pronunciations, functions, etymologies, meanings, and syntactical and idiomatic uses
2 : a reference book listing alphabetically terms or names important to a particular subject or activity along with discussion of their meanings and applications
3 : a reference book giving for words of one language equivalents in another
4 : a list (as of items of data or words) stored in a computer for reference (as for information retrieval or word processing)

:smirk:

:thumbup:

Still loving this post Agar.

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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #4276578 - 06/09/05 05:35 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

how do I tell when the endospores have germed?


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: FirstAvailable]
    #4276599 - 06/09/05 05:42 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

FirstAvailable said: how do I tell when the endospores have germed?




You will hear them imitating ELVIS singing "love me tender". (JOKE).

You cannot tell, but the soak usualy does it. As room temp, moisture & nutriants all combined is the germinating trigger - for them.


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: agar]
    #5348181 - 02/28/06 04:40 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Ok sorry to dig up an old thread, but, basically your saying there is no reason to simmer at all am I right? Just soak it for a night?


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: nuk1m]
    #5348216 - 02/28/06 05:15 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

nuk1m said:
Ok sorry to dig up an old thread, but, basically your saying there is no reason to simmer at all am I right? Just soak it for a night?




About a 24 to 28 hour soak in 68/72F does it for me.
You want to rinse with hot water & drain, before they start to SPROUT.
Simple as that.


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: agar]
    #5348227 - 02/28/06 05:25 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

A good Tek that has an illustration of the effects on the water of endospore germination is "From Syringe To Print With Rye Tek"

I am about to try grain also, and as my first. But I have a good feeling about grain over PF and in regards to the sacred mushy I listen to what I feel.


Loving this crowd more and more.

Darken
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: agar]
    #5348239 - 02/28/06 05:35 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

agar said:
Sounds like your WBS may be a bit to WET, before you start. 1 or 2% bursted WBS isn't much of a problem, more than that becomes a bigger problem, the higher the percentage goes.

Busted seed creates sort of a starchy sludge, that is prone to bacterial contamination, slow colonization & makes the jars hard to shake (sludge is sticky).

You might try pre/heating your PC, then add the jars & PC lid W/weight so it builds pressure quicker. Other than that, I don't really know what to tell you.




The mix of grain sizes (smaller millet) with WBS was just disaster and wetspot for me.  :sad:  Toss in some dry verm to your drained grain before loading jars--it helps balance out the moisture and texture. 

Others here may be able to use grain without verm, but I don't have the patience to drain it or the skill to keep it consistently uncontaminated.  :shrug:  Verm is cheap and it takes about a 1/4 cup dry per quart of grain.  :cool: 

:bow: to those that get consistent straight-grain results.


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: GnuBobo] * 1
    #5348841 - 02/28/06 12:47 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

i have been working on experiments with no Soaking and no simmering.

The rye i have just found doesn't seem to have a problem with bacterial endospores. (after writing this post i prolly will)

just fill Qt. jars with 1 1/2 cups dry grain, add filtered water (puritan) equal to the grain line, and pc.

after pc session. let cool a little bit, and then shake jars to distribute the grains. ie.) the wetter ones mixed with the drier ones.

This seems to work good. Testing it with Agar's Dancing tigers now.

Thanks AGAR!


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: Oatman2000]
    #5349656 - 02/28/06 04:20 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I completely agaree with agar. Too many burst seeds from simmering create a higher chance for contam.

I knocked up 10 jars using Doc's WBs tek. Four days of incubating and the whole jar had green on it. The only thing I did different from the tek was I had too many burst grains. I'd say 25% was burst from simmering.

Next time I'm going to try just soaking. This fairly new grower can't afford to waste anymore syringes!


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: ChronicBarry]
    #5349745 - 02/28/06 04:35 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

If you can't afford to waste Syringes, look into LC :smile:
Soaking seems to work well for many people, but so does simmering.  I think it is all personal preference. (Although soaking is easier and fool proof!!!)


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: agar]
    #5648177 - 05/19/06 12:35 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Agar, what is the reason for the rye/wbs mix if fruiting from grain? Wouldn't all rye be more nutritious?


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: davesj1]
    #5898401 - 07/25/06 04:13 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

thought i might bring the ultimate resource straight out a 04


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: scarymidgets]
    #5898571 - 07/25/06 05:00 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

One point, maybe it's mentioned earlier and I missed it.

For soaks longer than 24 hours you should refrigerate while soaking. This will stop the bacteria from rotting it and the grain from sprouting. The endospores should still germinate, but if you have problems with them then allow the grain to come up to room temp for several hours near the end of your soak.


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: agar]
    #6109000 - 09/27/06 10:37 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

So let me get this straight.. putting the water level just above the seeds shows that the seeds retained the water so you will know when they are fully soaked once the water level stops lowering? I dont really understand? or do I?


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: psychedelicatessen]
    #6183539 - 10/18/06 08:21 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for the write up!


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: TRICKTEK]
    #6225341 - 10/29/06 10:56 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

thanks


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: GnuBobo]
    #9352808 - 12/02/08 08:04 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

I'm a noob, but for what it's worth here's my foolproof WBS method:

Simmer for 15 min then pour the entire pot into a bucket to soak or let it remain in the pot for 12 hrs. Make sure there's water covering the seed (about 2")...add some if you need to.

After 12 hr soak drain the WBS and rinse it thoroughly, then let that drain till you can't shake ANY water from the strainer.
 
Load into jars and add some pre moistend verm. For qt jars I use approx 3 cups WBS and 2 heaping tbsp moist verm. Shake well, use Tyvek and a foil cover and PC for 60 min @ 15 psi. This method has never failed me. Simmering the seed first softens it allowing it to absorb it's max moisture content during the soak. If you can squish the seeds between your fingers with some effort then you're golden. The moist verm will soak up any excess moisture OR add moisture if your grains didn't absorb enough. Good luck! :rocket:


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: Orion12]
    #9352859 - 12/02/08 08:11 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

thread from 05...

looks like its the noob wall of shame for you :tongue:


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: legallyhomeless]
    #9352961 - 12/02/08 08:22 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

He should be banned for doing that to one of Agar's posts,lol.:thumbdown:

Noob indeed .

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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: HippieChick]
    #9353406 - 12/02/08 09:07 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

high gais

omg hippiechick is ET


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Edited by Stimpy913 (12/02/08 09:08 PM)


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: legallyhomeless]
    #9354087 - 12/02/08 10:28 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Hi. It may be an old thread but it's still viewed and I was merely posting my experience with successful results. Didn't mean to put anyone down whatsoever, just wanted to tell ya'll of the method that has worked for me. :wink:

And c'mon, I'm a newb and excited for my "fruitful" endeavor. Where's the love?


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: Orion12]
    #9354286 - 12/02/08 10:53 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

the love is in your ratings.


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: legallyhomeless]
    #10838022 - 08/11/09 08:49 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

legallyhomeless said:
the love is in your ratings.




lol.....im sure my ratings are low...but i like to speculate and learn,as oppose to presume and preach....but that was funny!


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: botanisthype]
    #10971373 - 08/31/09 10:06 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

i thought the reason for soaking was to germinate bacterial endospores, the grain dosent soak up that much water during soak thats not its purpose, thats why we simmer, to get the grains to soak up the maximum water content without breaking kernels


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: antimatt3r]
    #10971963 - 08/31/09 12:48 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)



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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: system32]
    #10971981 - 08/31/09 12:52 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)



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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: agar]
    #12731854 - 06/12/10 05:06 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

The point of soaking any grain is to give the bacterial endospores time to germinate so that they may be killed with a PC.  Endospores which have not had time and environment to germinate will survive PC'ing everytime.  Years ago I found all this out the hard way as I was just boiling my popcorn to get moisture content right and loading the jars right away.  Bacterial splotch on every single jar.  I started doing a 3 day soak after boiling, being sure to pour into strainers and rinse the bacterial slime which had germinated off every time.  Then after rinse, put back into cleaned pot with clean water.  Repeat for 3 days, on 3'rd day after rinse, drain for 30 mins (picking up strainer and shaking for 5 mins or so at end) then loading jars.  90_95 % success rate or higher from then on.


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: legallyhomeless]
    #12732709 - 06/12/10 07:46 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

tryptamine83 said:
The point of soaking any grain is to give the bacterial endospores time to germinate so that they may be killed with a PC.  Endospores which have not had time and environment to germinate will survive PC'ing everytime.  Years ago I found all this out the hard way as I was just boiling my popcorn to get moisture content right and loading the jars right away.  Bacterial splotch on every single jar.  I started doing a 3 day soak after boiling, being sure to pour into strainers and rinse the bacterial slime which had germinated off every time.  Then after rinse, put back into cleaned pot with clean water.  Repeat for 3 days, on 3'rd day after rinse, drain for 30 mins (picking up strainer and shaking for 5 mins or so at end) then loading jars.  90_95 % success rate or higher from then on.




Well thank you that was a very helpful and informative post.

Quote:

legallyhomeless said:
thread from 05...

looks like its the noob wall of shame for you :tongue:




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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: scatmanrav]
    #12734947 - 06/13/10 10:08 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

can anyone advise on processing WBS without the soak overnight step?


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: antimatt3r]
    #12735102 - 06/13/10 11:06 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

antimatt3r said:
can anyone advise on processing WBS without the soak overnight step?




I still use this method to this day:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5265629#5265629

The reason we use a pressure cooker is to kill endospores that can withstand normal boiling temperatures, so why let them germinate? Wouldn't we be able to just boil the seeds in a normal pot if the endospores are all germinated? If you're having contam problems it isn't because you didn't soak your seeds, it's because you didn't kill all of the contaminants. Increase your cooking time, make sure your jars/bags have proper filters and use proper sterile technique.


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: tryptamine83]
    #12735158 - 06/13/10 11:25 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

tryptamine83 said:
The point of soaking any grain is to give the bacterial endospores time to germinate so that they may be killed with a PC.  Endospores which have not had time and environment to germinate will survive PC'ing everytime.  Years ago I found all this out the hard way as I was just boiling my popcorn to get moisture content right and loading the jars right away.  Bacterial splotch on every single jar.  I started doing a 3 day soak after boiling, being sure to pour into strainers and rinse the bacterial slime which had germinated off every time.  Then after rinse, put back into cleaned pot with clean water.  Repeat for 3 days, on 3'rd day after rinse, drain for 30 mins (picking up strainer and shaking for 5 mins or so at end) then loading jars.  90_95 % success rate or higher from then on.





Any soak longer than 24 hours and you're going to have more endospores than you started out with. Endospore-forming bacteria begin to form new endospores within an hour of germination. In addition, popcorn is the worst possible choice for spawn because it contains so many endospore-forming bacteria.

The main function of the soak is to hydrate the grains.  While doing this, you also hydrate and soften the endospores, making them easier to kill in the pressure cooker.  I also used to buy into the necessity of 'germinating' the endospores, but I no longer feel that's the best course of action.  A four hour soak in hot water is plenty.  After four hours, not many endospores have germinated, but they're killed in the PC nonetheless.  Above 24 hours, you've flooded your soak water and grains with more endospores than you started with, actually increasing your chances of failure.
RR


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: agar]
    #21148774 - 01/20/15 11:47 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Sorry to bump an ancient thread, but as some of you know I'm trying my hand at WBS these days and having a moisture issue.  I used this "tek" yesterday but without the simmering there's no steam to lift the moisture off the outside of the seed.  I'm drying them out by laying them out on a piece of cardboard and towel.  Agar, how do you dry the outsides of the WBS before you put them in the jars?
thanks.


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: Yakul]
    #21149263 - 01/20/15 01:18 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Yakul said:
Sorry to bump an ancient thread, but as some of you know I'm trying my hand at WBS these days and having a moisture issue.  I used this "tek" yesterday but without the simmering there's no steam to lift the moisture off the outside of the seed.  I'm drying them out by laying them out on a piece of cardboard and towel.  Agar, how do you dry the outsides of the WBS before you put them in the jars?
thanks.



How about you follow a more modern tek...
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17252080/fpart/all/vc/1


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: taGyo]
    #21149417 - 01/20/15 01:51 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

I saw agar posted... got all  excited for a sec

:whoopdeefriggindo:  :makesmecry:


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: BurberrySpores]
    #21149426 - 01/20/15 01:52 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Speaking of legends, Stro was around a while ago,

:super:


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OfflineYakul
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: taGyo]
    #21150809 - 01/20/15 05:52 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

taGyo said:
Quote:

Yakul said:
Sorry to bump an ancient thread, but as some of you know I'm trying my hand at WBS these days and having a moisture issue.  I used this "tek" yesterday but without the simmering there's no steam to lift the moisture off the outside of the seed.  I'm drying them out by laying them out on a piece of cardboard and towel.  Agar, how do you dry the outsides of the WBS before you put them in the jars?
thanks.



How about you follow a more modern tek...
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17252080/fpart/all/vc/1




Thanks friend.


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: taGyo]
    #21151269 - 01/20/15 07:41 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

taGyo said:
Quote:

Yakul said:
Sorry to bump an ancient thread, but as some of you know I'm trying my hand at WBS these days and having a moisture issue.  I used this "tek" yesterday but without the simmering there's no steam to lift the moisture off the outside of the seed.  I'm drying them out by laying them out on a piece of cardboard and towel.  Agar, how do you dry the outsides of the WBS before you put them in the jars?
thanks.



How about you follow a more modern tek...
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17252080/fpart/all/vc/1




Huh.  Strange.  I just read through that tek you linked for me and that is LITERALLY exactly what I did, (even using the tp test,) for the WBS I posted a photo of that everybody said was way too wet.  It really was dry on the outside but moist on the inside and looked exactly as it should be, with plenty of air space, until it started to sweat a few days after inoculation.  Seriously, exactly the same method.  No word of a lie.  I can only conclude that it must be my brand of WBS or PC.


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OfflinetaGyo
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: Yakul]
    #21151466 - 01/20/15 08:29 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Sweat?


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OfflineMushroom_J
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: taGyo]
    #21151637 - 01/20/15 09:08 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

sounds like you're incubating  :tongue:


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: agar]
    #25981759 - 05/09/19 01:27 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

would soaking for less time give you more of a chance for Molds and bacteria?

Im at very high altitude (hence the name) and before moving up here I had super successful grows etc.  since moving up here my methods have stepped up immensely with cleanliness, agar, upping PC times and pressure to counteract the alt,  and i'm dealing with more green mold and bacteria's than ever before.  the ONLY thing I haven't changed is my soaking time.  im really hoping this will be the end all to solving my problem.

thanks
10k


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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: Yakul]
    #25981783 - 05/09/19 01:38 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Yakul said:
Quote:

taGyo said:
Quote:

Yakul said:
Sorry to bump an ancient thread, but as some of you know I'm trying my hand at WBS these days and having a moisture issue.  I used this "tek" yesterday but without the simmering there's no steam to lift the moisture off the outside of the seed.  I'm drying them out by laying them out on a piece of cardboard and towel.  Agar, how do you dry the outsides of the WBS before you put them in the jars?
thanks.



How about you follow a more modern tek...
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17252080/fpart/all/vc/1




Huh.  Strange.  I just read through that tek you linked for me and that is LITERALLY exactly what I did, (even using the tp test,) for the WBS I posted a photo of that everybody said was way too wet.  It really was dry on the outside but moist on the inside and looked exactly as it should be, with plenty of air space, until it started to sweat a few days after inoculation.  Seriously, exactly the same method.  No word of a lie.  I can only conclude that it must be my brand of WBS or PC.




The "sweat" in which you speak of is the condensation forming inside the jar, this is due to temperature change from the outside to the inside of the jar. The temp change occurs from heat off the mycellium growing, it's not incubation, it's fairly normal even if your grains are dry. Put the jars near a fan with the air flowing about the polyfil, but not directly over. This will allow some moisture to evaporate. While leaving the mycellium to keep colonizing the jars...


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