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Offlinetryptamine83
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Registered: 06/05/10
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: agar]
    #12731854 - 06/12/10 05:06 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

The point of soaking any grain is to give the bacterial endospores time to germinate so that they may be killed with a PC.  Endospores which have not had time and environment to germinate will survive PC'ing everytime.  Years ago I found all this out the hard way as I was just boiling my popcorn to get moisture content right and loading the jars right away.  Bacterial splotch on every single jar.  I started doing a 3 day soak after boiling, being sure to pour into strainers and rinse the bacterial slime which had germinated off every time.  Then after rinse, put back into cleaned pot with clean water.  Repeat for 3 days, on 3'rd day after rinse, drain for 30 mins (picking up strainer and shaking for 5 mins or so at end) then loading jars.  90_95 % success rate or higher from then on.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: legallyhomeless]
    #12732709 - 06/12/10 07:46 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

tryptamine83 said:
The point of soaking any grain is to give the bacterial endospores time to germinate so that they may be killed with a PC.  Endospores which have not had time and environment to germinate will survive PC'ing everytime.  Years ago I found all this out the hard way as I was just boiling my popcorn to get moisture content right and loading the jars right away.  Bacterial splotch on every single jar.  I started doing a 3 day soak after boiling, being sure to pour into strainers and rinse the bacterial slime which had germinated off every time.  Then after rinse, put back into cleaned pot with clean water.  Repeat for 3 days, on 3'rd day after rinse, drain for 30 mins (picking up strainer and shaking for 5 mins or so at end) then loading jars.  90_95 % success rate or higher from then on.




Well thank you that was a very helpful and informative post.

Quote:

legallyhomeless said:
thread from 05...

looks like its the noob wall of shame for you :tongue:




--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Invisibleantimatt3r
umumz
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Registered: 07/13/06
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: scatmanrav]
    #12734947 - 06/13/10 10:08 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

can anyone advise on processing WBS without the soak overnight step?


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Everything and anything said by this person or thru this account is completely fictional and/or hypothetical fantasy and should not be taken seriously and do not reflect the views or actions of the account holder.


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InvisibleFooManM
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Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth Flag
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: antimatt3r]
    #12735102 - 06/13/10 11:06 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

antimatt3r said:
can anyone advise on processing WBS without the soak overnight step?




I still use this method to this day:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5265629#5265629

The reason we use a pressure cooker is to kill endospores that can withstand normal boiling temperatures, so why let them germinate? Wouldn't we be able to just boil the seeds in a normal pot if the endospores are all germinated? If you're having contam problems it isn't because you didn't soak your seeds, it's because you didn't kill all of the contaminants. Increase your cooking time, make sure your jars/bags have proper filters and use proper sterile technique.


--------------------

Quick WBS Prep


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: tryptamine83]
    #12735158 - 06/13/10 11:25 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

tryptamine83 said:
The point of soaking any grain is to give the bacterial endospores time to germinate so that they may be killed with a PC.  Endospores which have not had time and environment to germinate will survive PC'ing everytime.  Years ago I found all this out the hard way as I was just boiling my popcorn to get moisture content right and loading the jars right away.  Bacterial splotch on every single jar.  I started doing a 3 day soak after boiling, being sure to pour into strainers and rinse the bacterial slime which had germinated off every time.  Then after rinse, put back into cleaned pot with clean water.  Repeat for 3 days, on 3'rd day after rinse, drain for 30 mins (picking up strainer and shaking for 5 mins or so at end) then loading jars.  90_95 % success rate or higher from then on.





Any soak longer than 24 hours and you're going to have more endospores than you started out with. Endospore-forming bacteria begin to form new endospores within an hour of germination. In addition, popcorn is the worst possible choice for spawn because it contains so many endospore-forming bacteria.

The main function of the soak is to hydrate the grains.  While doing this, you also hydrate and soften the endospores, making them easier to kill in the pressure cooker.  I also used to buy into the necessity of 'germinating' the endospores, but I no longer feel that's the best course of action.  A four hour soak in hot water is plenty.  After four hours, not many endospores have germinated, but they're killed in the PC nonetheless.  Above 24 hours, you've flooded your soak water and grains with more endospores than you started with, actually increasing your chances of failure.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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OfflineYakul
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Registered: 09/15/14
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: agar]
    #21148774 - 01/20/15 11:47 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Sorry to bump an ancient thread, but as some of you know I'm trying my hand at WBS these days and having a moisture issue.  I used this "tek" yesterday but without the simmering there's no steam to lift the moisture off the outside of the seed.  I'm drying them out by laying them out on a piece of cardboard and towel.  Agar, how do you dry the outsides of the WBS before you put them in the jars?
thanks.


--------------------
"Only an idiot is entirely certain about everything all the time."-Sadguru


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OfflinetaGyo
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Registered: 10/16/14
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: Yakul]
    #21149263 - 01/20/15 01:18 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Yakul said:
Sorry to bump an ancient thread, but as some of you know I'm trying my hand at WBS these days and having a moisture issue.  I used this "tek" yesterday but without the simmering there's no steam to lift the moisture off the outside of the seed.  I'm drying them out by laying them out on a piece of cardboard and towel.  Agar, how do you dry the outsides of the WBS before you put them in the jars?
thanks.



How about you follow a more modern tek...
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17252080/fpart/all/vc/1


--------------------
Gyo's Better Grows
TNF Q&A :rockon:
AMU Q&A

Dominus fortunae meae sum


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OfflineBurberrySpores
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Registered: 08/05/14
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: taGyo]
    #21149417 - 01/20/15 01:51 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

I saw agar posted... got all  excited for a sec

:whoopdeefriggindo:  :makesmecry:


--------------------
I could go crazy... and no one would notice :seeya:


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OfflinetaGyo
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: BurberrySpores]
    #21149426 - 01/20/15 01:52 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Speaking of legends, Stro was around a while ago,

:super:


--------------------
Gyo's Better Grows
TNF Q&A :rockon:
AMU Q&A

Dominus fortunae meae sum


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OfflineYakul
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Registered: 09/15/14
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: taGyo]
    #21150809 - 01/20/15 05:52 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

taGyo said:
Quote:

Yakul said:
Sorry to bump an ancient thread, but as some of you know I'm trying my hand at WBS these days and having a moisture issue.  I used this "tek" yesterday but without the simmering there's no steam to lift the moisture off the outside of the seed.  I'm drying them out by laying them out on a piece of cardboard and towel.  Agar, how do you dry the outsides of the WBS before you put them in the jars?
thanks.



How about you follow a more modern tek...
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17252080/fpart/all/vc/1




Thanks friend.


--------------------
"Only an idiot is entirely certain about everything all the time."-Sadguru


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OfflineYakul
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Registered: 09/15/14
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: taGyo]
    #21151269 - 01/20/15 07:41 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

taGyo said:
Quote:

Yakul said:
Sorry to bump an ancient thread, but as some of you know I'm trying my hand at WBS these days and having a moisture issue.  I used this "tek" yesterday but without the simmering there's no steam to lift the moisture off the outside of the seed.  I'm drying them out by laying them out on a piece of cardboard and towel.  Agar, how do you dry the outsides of the WBS before you put them in the jars?
thanks.



How about you follow a more modern tek...
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17252080/fpart/all/vc/1




Huh.  Strange.  I just read through that tek you linked for me and that is LITERALLY exactly what I did, (even using the tp test,) for the WBS I posted a photo of that everybody said was way too wet.  It really was dry on the outside but moist on the inside and looked exactly as it should be, with plenty of air space, until it started to sweat a few days after inoculation.  Seriously, exactly the same method.  No word of a lie.  I can only conclude that it must be my brand of WBS or PC.


--------------------
"Only an idiot is entirely certain about everything all the time."-Sadguru


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OfflinetaGyo
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Registered: 10/16/14
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: Yakul]
    #21151466 - 01/20/15 08:29 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Sweat?


--------------------
Gyo's Better Grows
TNF Q&A :rockon:
AMU Q&A

Dominus fortunae meae sum


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OfflineMushroom_J
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: taGyo]
    #21151637 - 01/20/15 09:08 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

sounds like you're incubating  :tongue:


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Invisible10kVisions
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Registered: 04/08/18
Posts: 188
Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: agar]
    #25981759 - 05/09/19 01:27 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

would soaking for less time give you more of a chance for Molds and bacteria?

Im at very high altitude (hence the name) and before moving up here I had super successful grows etc.  since moving up here my methods have stepped up immensely with cleanliness, agar, upping PC times and pressure to counteract the alt,  and i'm dealing with more green mold and bacteria's than ever before.  the ONLY thing I haven't changed is my soaking time.  im really hoping this will be the end all to solving my problem.

thanks
10k


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OfflineMr. Funguy
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Re: SOAKING WBS - GRAINS & TIMES - FINAL ANSWER [Re: Yakul]
    #25981783 - 05/09/19 01:38 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Yakul said:
Quote:

taGyo said:
Quote:

Yakul said:
Sorry to bump an ancient thread, but as some of you know I'm trying my hand at WBS these days and having a moisture issue.  I used this "tek" yesterday but without the simmering there's no steam to lift the moisture off the outside of the seed.  I'm drying them out by laying them out on a piece of cardboard and towel.  Agar, how do you dry the outsides of the WBS before you put them in the jars?
thanks.



How about you follow a more modern tek...
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17252080/fpart/all/vc/1




Huh.  Strange.  I just read through that tek you linked for me and that is LITERALLY exactly what I did, (even using the tp test,) for the WBS I posted a photo of that everybody said was way too wet.  It really was dry on the outside but moist on the inside and looked exactly as it should be, with plenty of air space, until it started to sweat a few days after inoculation.  Seriously, exactly the same method.  No word of a lie.  I can only conclude that it must be my brand of WBS or PC.




The "sweat" in which you speak of is the condensation forming inside the jar, this is due to temperature change from the outside to the inside of the jar. The temp change occurs from heat off the mycellium growing, it's not incubation, it's fairly normal even if your grains are dry. Put the jars near a fan with the air flowing about the polyfil, but not directly over. This will allow some moisture to evaporate. While leaving the mycellium to keep colonizing the jars...


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