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OfflineTacobot
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Registered: 03/27/05
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thought loops
    #3976759 - 03/27/05 06:52 PM (12 years, 30 days ago)

I haven't experience ego loss, but one thing that was amazing (afterward, but scary during) was the thought loops. It felt like i was trapped in an infinite loop, extremely happy then sad then pissed then happy then scratch my nose then adjust my pants repeat, and when i went to try to talk to my friends about it i felt like they were stuck in them too and they just became part of the loop.

I was wondering what causes them and if anyone has had any of them worth talking about.


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OfflineT85
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Re: thought loops [Re: Tacobot]
    #3976784 - 03/27/05 06:59 PM (12 years, 30 days ago)

This is impossible for me to explain this, but on LSD on my highest dose I entered a similar 'loop'. I call it the loop, I can't explain it but it was terrible. I found a similar experience on erowid regarding this, but on Amanita Muscaria. My loop experience was very strange but it sounds quite similar. I wish I could explain what I experienced.


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: thought loops [Re: Tacobot]
    #3976859 - 03/27/05 07:22 PM (12 years, 30 days ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OCD

Not all OCD sufferers engage in compulsive behavior. Recent years have seen increased diagnoses of Pure Obsessional OCD, or "Pure O." This form of OCD is manifested entirely within the mind, and involves obsessive ruminations triggered by certain thoughts. These mental "snags" can be debilitating, often tying up a sufferer for hours at a time. At this writing (2004), Pure O is considered the trickiest form of OCD to treat, though headway continues to be made by specialists such as Dr. Steven Phillipson[1] (http://www.ocdonline.com).

Hallucinogens, such as psilocybin (an active ingredient in "magic mushrooms") and LSD, have also shown promise -- reducing symptoms for up to several months after ingestion in some people. The US FDA has approved a study to determine their effectiveness that is being conducted at the University of Arizona.

I researched this the other night while enjoying a certain mushroom. I experience this in regular life as well.


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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OfflineTacobot
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Re: thought loops [Re: cb9fl]
    #3976901 - 03/27/05 07:38 PM (12 years, 30 days ago)

regular life? how so?


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: thought loops [Re: Tacobot]
    #3976944 - 03/27/05 07:50 PM (12 years, 30 days ago)

I fortunately do not have a disabling case but in everyday life I have what I perceive as OCD times. I will start thinking about a word or topic and it will repeat over and over in my head. Not like getting a song or tune stuck in your head although that does happen frequently. It's exactly like getting stuck in a loop. A word, thought or idea will keep repeating in my head. I will continuously think about a subject and go over the same thoughts many times. I would consider it slight compared to what some other people must endure but it is often counter-productive.

I also have some physical manifestations such as cracking of knuckles or rubbing of fingers or toes. If I crack a knuckle or rub two fingers or toes together I have to do them all or it bugs me incessantly.


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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OfflineTacobot
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Re: thought loops [Re: cb9fl]
    #3976958 - 03/27/05 07:55 PM (12 years, 30 days ago)

Well shit, that's been happening to me ever since i remember.
Like if i think of something (visual) in my brain and it happens a certain way, like someone grabbing a coke and it explodes, it's nearly impossible for me to imagine him grabbing the coke and drinking it.
I also do the cracking knuckles things.
Maybe that's where the loops come from and the psychadelics just exaggerate and enhance them so much, since your brain is way more influential than your outside senses...


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: thought loops [Re: Tacobot]
    #3976989 - 03/27/05 08:02 PM (12 years, 30 days ago)

Read up on Dr. Phillipson.

Here's a quote:

Quote:

These patterns of behavior can be altered (unlearned) through exposure and response treatments. Clients are taught to systematically induce anxiety-provoking situations while deliberately choosing to tolerate the resultant anxiety, ambiguity and uncertainty.




Perhaps that is one reason psilocin/ybin are beneficial. They can produce anxiety inducing situations which a person is forced to endure. I would imagine higher doses are more beneficial.


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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Offlinedante
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Re: thought loops [Re: cb9fl]
    #3977274 - 03/27/05 09:08 PM (12 years, 30 days ago)

MAPS(Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies) has completed a study on Psilocybin as a treatment for OCD.

More info:
http://www.maps.org/research/index.html#PSILOCYBIN


--------------------
The clouds above us join & separate,
The breeze in the courtyard leaves & returns.
Like is like that, so why not relax?
Who can stop us from celebrating?

-Lu Yu


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: thought loops [Re: Tacobot]
    #3977368 - 03/27/05 09:31 PM (12 years, 30 days ago)

I get it into endless thought loops as well with shrooms. But mostly with weed. It happens every once an awhile when i smoke to much.


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Offlinepink_buffalo
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Re: thought loops [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #3979523 - 03/28/05 10:43 AM (12 years, 29 days ago)

haha the loop thats happened to me before with 7 hits i kept thinking of the same things (dont remember exactly what they were) for about an hour or so it was pissing me off so i decieded to turn on the wall and that chilled me out pretty good. it was getting kinda scary tho i coulnt control what my mind was thinking.


--------------------
death, its a one and a life time experence ill be ready will you?


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OfflineEasterBunny
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Re: thought loops [Re: pink_buffalo]
    #3980042 - 03/28/05 01:52 PM (12 years, 29 days ago)

lol This happened with me and my friend on our first mushroom trip. We look at it as hilarious thuogh probably very annoying to the people around us. We kept repeating the same conversation for about an hour.."We must find a lighter..!" "Is that our mission?" "haven't we had this conversation before?" "Yes, but we must find that lighter.." ..it was really strange but we laughed about it at the end.


--------------------
A half truth is a whole lie


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OfflineTacobot
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Re: thought loops [Re: EasterBunny]
    #3980465 - 03/28/05 03:59 PM (12 years, 29 days ago)

ours was more like:
who are you?
i'm mitch
i'm scared
try to think of something else
is my mom ok?
she's fine
who are you?


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Offlinetoofew
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Re: thought loops [Re: Tacobot]
    #3980634 - 03/28/05 04:54 PM (12 years, 29 days ago)

i read a very fascinating and odd book called 'the holographic universe' by michael talbot, and there was a chapter explaining The Vortex and how it is the most stable structure in the universe.

it used this analogy to explain habit, and i immediately thought of loops. it seems the more you loop, the more loopy you get.

whenever i begin to loop i go do something completely different and forget about it. its easier to loop when talking to other trippers because you'll just pull them in deeper with you.


--------------------
lime and limpid green the sound surrounds the icy waters underground


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Offlinepink_buffalo
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Re: thought loops [Re: toofew]
    #3982170 - 03/28/05 11:21 PM (12 years, 29 days ago)

easter bunny that was out exact conversation we were hitting bongs and it was like a mission to find the liter the bong piece the bong and we kept sayin the same shit over and over


--------------------
death, its a one and a life time experence ill be ready will you?


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Offlineajna
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Re: thought loops [Re: pink_buffalo]
    #3986857 - 03/29/05 09:33 PM (12 years, 28 days ago)

i'm glad there's a thread about this today, as it's been on my mind. my best friend and co-traveller of the psychedelic realms seems to be rather vulnerable to these thought loops.

the first time we experienced this, we all became part of a conversation loop for hours trying to describe 'the thing' and why we couldn't stop talking about 'the thing'. had we've never made the thing something, would it have remained nothing so that our trip could go on? we were'nt sure. sleep was the only saviour.

since then, my friend seems to have been getting 'sucked in' to that same thought process whereas i'm able to consciously avoid it. however out last trip (3 tabs each) the loop took a new dimension.

it became apparent to me that my friend was visuallising alternate realities where conversations between us where carrying in, forgetting which parts were real, and talking for hours about things that did and didn't really happen. it appeared that at times he was not himself, like personalities were taking over his body. i had to keep a very cool head, because what i was witnessing was my best friend in a schitzophrenic episode dealing once again with this looping thought, but completely unable to connect with me in any way.

at times i had to remind him he existed, that life ran on a timeline, that he had a body and a life full of memories, that there was nothing in his head besides acid.

the same themes seemed to be appearing in these loops: the desire to descibe something that seems incomprehensable to the human mind (or atleast can not be communicated), the inability to concentrate on this 'thing' and the scrambling of thoughts when one does, and the sense of entrapment within this loop which can only make things worse for it's prisoner.

i'm here today looking for some explanations, as my friend feels very uneasy about the experience. any help would be great, thanks


--------------------


what i'm listening to: http://www.audioscrobbler.com/user/ajnachakra/


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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: thought loops [Re: ajna]
    #3986979 - 03/29/05 09:54 PM (12 years, 28 days ago)

Yea... loops can be very fun and very trippy...

I remember I an experience liek this, it went a little like this;

-wanna burn?

-where are we gonna burn?

-iunno, lets go to the burger stand.

- *walking to burger stand not near by* where are we going?

-to burn

-where are we gonna burn?

-iunno.

-lets go to that bench.

- *walkign towards bench* where are we going?

-fuck... ummmm... to the burger stand.

-ok lets go...

- *walking towards burger stand* so what are we doing?

-i dunno, lets go to that bench.

- *sitting at the bench* so... wanna burn?

-yea lets roll right here.

*sit on bench for a while doing nothing but trippin and laughin*

- hey lets go somewhere

- ok.... *walking* yo lets burn

-ok... where?


AND SO ON!


      So basicaly this is how it went for a while... it took about 45 mins to actually get a joint rolled!  :tongue:


--------------------
Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...


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OfflineLimelight
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Re: thought loops [Re: Ginseng1]
    #4030678 - 04/08/05 02:06 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

HAhahaha these stories are awesome.

Do you get in thoughtloops as bad as when you're super blown after you smoke weed?

I know if I hit the bong like 5 huge times, and then chill out on the bed without too many distractions, I get in HORRIBLE thought loops.
One time I thought how I am a bastard child (it's very shitty to htink about :frown: espeically the name 'bastard child', so shitty sounding). anyway, i thought of that when i never really thought about it before, and i felt inferior to everyone else. then i noticed that in my entire family, theres not a SINGLE kid my age... like, all my aunts, uncles, etc etc they havent had a kid. im basically the only person within 10 years of my age in my entire family. Then i thought how my entire family is an inferior branch of humanity, like i pictured my anscestors being the loners in the group, and i got super depressed.

this is how my loop went:

hmm, shit.. i dont have any brothers.
holy fuck, i dont even have anyone in my family the same age..
damn.. im a 'bastard' child...
wait.. i must be an inferior branch of homo sapiens
why am i an inferior branch?
*then it bothers me for 20 seconds, because i know im really worried about something but i cant think of what it is*
Oh, i remember... holy shit, i dont have any brothers,
wait, i dont even have anyone in my family the same age!

it went on like that for literally 2 hours, it was horrible :frown:


I'm just wondering though, when you do ~2-3 g shroom trip, are the thoughtloops just this bad, different, or worse?


--------------------
"The worst mistake that you can make is to think you're alive when really you're asleep in life's waiting room."


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OfflineSoK
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Re: thought loops [Re: ajna]
    #4030779 - 04/08/05 02:28 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

i don't "loop" much when i smoke, but when i do, i can deal w/ it very easily (unless i'm superstoned, but then i don't even care about tryin to deal w/ it)

Quote:

ajna said:
i'm glad there's a thread about this today, as it's been on my mind. my best friend and co-traveller of the psychedelic realms seems to be rather vulnerable to these thought loops.

the first time we experienced this, we all became part of a conversation loop for hours trying to describe 'the thing' and why we couldn't stop talking about 'the thing'. had we've never made the thing something, would it have remained nothing so that our trip could go on? we were'nt sure. sleep was the only saviour.

since then, my friend seems to have been getting 'sucked in' to that same thought process whereas i'm able to consciously avoid it. however out last trip (3 tabs each) the loop took a new dimension.

it became apparent to me that my friend was visuallising alternate realities where conversations between us where carrying in, forgetting which parts were real, and talking for hours about things that did and didn't really happen. it appeared that at times he was not himself, like personalities were taking over his body. i had to keep a very cool head, because what i was witnessing was my best friend in a schitzophrenic episode dealing once again with this looping thought, but completely unable to connect with me in any way.

at times i had to remind him he existed, that life ran on a timeline, that he had a body and a life full of memories, that there was nothing in his head besides acid.

the same themes seemed to be appearing in these loops: the desire to descibe something that seems incomprehensable to the human mind (or atleast can not be communicated), the inability to concentrate on this 'thing' and the scrambling of thoughts when one does, and the sense of entrapment within this loop which can only make things worse for it's prisoner.

i'm here today looking for some explanations, as my friend feels very uneasy about the experience. any help would be great, thanks




your friend sounds exactly like me... i get apprehensive and loopy just thinkin about trippin and goin into a strange loop. i've been tryin to sort them out and deal w/ them in my head on my own the past month or 2 but i havn't really gotten anywhere.

why do people like myself and ajna's friend get like this? what is it that makes us have these ocd-type traits/tendencies, whatever you want to call them?


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Invisiblemecreateme
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Re: thought loops [Re: SoK]
    #4031168 - 04/08/05 04:43 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

It is you that makes you have these tendencies. Sorry that isn't much help, but it is probably the answer to your question. I have some of these tendencies too but you just must let the loop run. Whenever I do that it just escalates in intensity until it is beyond bearable, then you sorta push through. The trick is not to get discouraged by the loops, take them as they are, one of the strangest experiences in life.

Singing out loud, whether a song or a tone or just yelling, can help with the loops. But you will be a stronger person for taking the loop.


Try one where my friend walks in the room and speaks gibberish and then I say that was stupid, then my other friend says the same gibberish, then I? say the gibberish. I didn't consciously, but those words came out of my mouth. At this point I was out of my body watching the three of us in a triangle like position say the same bit of gibberish to each other over and over and over again. It went on forever, and eventually turned into an evil music that just got louder and louder until it was a monsterous buzzing, the carrier wave as some say. Too much happened in that trip to even close this part of the story out. That was just one of the loops, but I don't have time to tell now. :heart:


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!


Edited by mecreateme (04/08/05 04:48 PM)


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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: thought loops [Re: Limelight]
    #4031334 - 04/08/05 05:20 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Limelight said:
I'm just wondering though, when you do ~2-3 g shroom trip, are the thoughtloops just this bad, different, or worse?




We'll the first time I tripped it was on about 3 grams.

I remember experiencing the thought loop, like happy then sad then angry then awkward, then happy, then sad, etc... I also remember thinking to myself that I had either fallen or advanced to a new state of conciousness, as if it were the next stage of this thing we call life.

It's actualy pretty amazing, and it can also be creepy and strange.

Whether it's worse or the same I'd say it has not much to do with how much you take, and more of you're current state of mind and your setting.
If you begin looping just tell yourself that you dont have to think so much. You can let things flow, don't try to figure everything out! You're tripping for fun! If you decide to trip to have some deep insights and such, then you should embrace the loop, for it is your ticket there.

Sometimes on mushrooms I've been able to hallucinate a circle, or a loop, at the same time that im looping. And things move in circular motions (with eyes closed).


You know what, I think "looping" should be a shrooming term.


--------------------
Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...


Edited by Ginseng1 (04/08/05 05:27 PM)


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