Home | Community | Message Board


The Spore Depot
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Free Health Care: Illegal
    #3967687 - 03/25/05 07:03 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

link

Quote:

Free Health Care Aid to the Poor: Illegal!



by Fred E. Foldvary, Senior Editor

Those favoring a gigantic government health care system claim the poor are not getting sufficient medicine, and even the middle class is underserved. But the US government, specifically the Health and Human Services Inspector General's office, has made it illegal for private organizations to provide free medical care. If private people can't offer free aid, then the real reason for nationalized medicine is not poverty, but statist power.

An article by Lucette Lagnado in the January 5, 2000 Wall Street Journal reports on the Deborah Heart and Lung Center in New Jersey, a hospital that has provided free health care to the poor and anyone else. This free service is really not new, but the restoration of the old tradition of charitable hospitals.

The Deborah hospital was founded 78 years ago as the Deborah Jewish Consumptive Relief Society by Dora Moness Shapiro, the wife of a garment maker, as a tuberculosis sanitarium for immigrants in Manhattan's Lower East Side. It has billed insurance companies, but never the patients. The free care is rooted in Jewish culture, which emphasizes charity to the poor. The Deborah philosophy is that medical care should be available to all regardless of wealth.

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services has declared that the Deborah Heart and Lung Center free care is illegal and faces stiff fines because Deborah accepts Medicare without requiring patient co-payments. The hospital also may be accused of filing a false claim under the False Claims Act, because by not charging the patients, there is no loss to cover by Medicare insurance. Also, waiving co-payments while other hospitals charge them is unfair competition, according to the Inspector General's office.

US government officials say that the hospital should at least bill those patients who can afford to pay. But Deborah is intended as a free hospital. It has volunteers who get contributions for the free charitable hospital. Asking the patients to pay would ruin the whole philosophy of the Deborah hospital.

The chiefs of government in the US claim many Americans are getting inadequate health care. So they want to increase taxes in order to have more national medicine. But their insistence that private providers must charge for health care contradicts their cry about inadequate health care. Health care is inadequate because government makes it difficult for charities to provide it. In 1996, a federal statute made it explicit that free care is illegal. This law warned hospitals they could face large penalties if they routinely waive Medicare deductible and co-payment charges for outpatient care.

Free hospitals used to be common in Europe and the United States, until government forced them to shut down or switch to charging patients. The City of Hope Cancer Center in Los Angeles didn't even have a billing department until the 1970s. Only a few free hospitals are left, such St. Jude Children's Research Hospital in Memphis, Tennessee, founded by the actor Danny Thomas. At St. Jude, the head of the hospital's fund-raising expressed amazement in learning that they were violating the law by giving free care.

Fewer patients are now coming to Deborah. Given the threats by the federal government, the hospital personae are not widely advertising the free services. So many of its beds lie empty, while poor folk who need medicine go without it.

There are hospitals that provide low-cost rather than free health care to the poor, and so far, they have been able to operate legally. For example, an article in Investor's Business Daily (Jan. 10, 2000) describes the Church Health Center in Memphis, which serves patients using a sliding-fee. It offers a low-cost health plan for which the physicians donate their services. The center does not take government money.

So it is possible to provide some charity, but there is a clash between federal health care and private charitable care. The government competes with voluntary charity, and seeks to limit charity and not let it get too charitable. This exposes the hypocrisy of national health care. A government monopoly that has forced charities out will leave the poor at the mercy of heartless bureaucracies. Government can be a cruel master, and it is cruel to punish voluntary and benevolent acts of kindness to the poor.




--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: Free Health Care: Illegal [Re: Silversoul]
    #3967748 - 03/25/05 08:24 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

If they're collecting medicare, they're not really free. Medicare copays are more likely designed to prevent abuse of the system than to previde additional revenue for the hospital.

I doubt there would be a problem if they didn't try to charge the government for their free services.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDirtMcgirt
in a pinch
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
Re: Free Health Care: Illegal [Re: Silversoul]
    #3967805 - 03/25/05 09:21 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Of course!  The reason the poor can't afford healthcare is becasue the government makes it illegal for charity to give it out for free at the cost of the taxpayer!  Well, I guess this insufficient healthcare problem is solved! :rolleyes:


--------------------
"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."


Edited by DirtMcgirt (03/25/05 09:23 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Free Health Care: Illegal [Re: DirtMcgirt]
    #3968071 - 03/25/05 11:52 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DirtMcgirt said:
Of course!  The reason the poor can't afford healthcare is becasue the government makes it illegal for charity to give it out for free at the cost of the taxpayer!  Well, I guess this insufficient healthcare problem is solved! :rolleyes:



Can you point to me where I said such a thing?  It is merely one of many ways in which the government keeps health care costs high by unnecessary intervention in the economy.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineunbeliever
Yo Daddy!
 User Gallery
Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 5,158
Loc: Gallifrey
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Free Health Care: Illegal [Re: Silversoul]
    #3968464 - 03/25/05 01:43 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Man, when will people realize that the government doesn't need to run a national healthcare system. They only need to setup the infrastructure for funding based on taxes. Let the healthcare industry still compete with each other within that context. Let the people choose where to get their care. Let them even choose private medicine outside of the system if they want to pay for it completely on their own.


--------------------
Happiness is a warm gun...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleGreat_Satan
prophet of God
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 953
Re: Free Health Care: Illegal [Re: Silversoul]
    #3975956 - 03/27/05 02:39 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Most of the healthcare I got in my life was free.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: Free Health Care: Illegal [Re: Silversoul]
    #3977249 - 03/27/05 09:03 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

If this law was repealed, would insurance companies start providing health insurance to those who need it but can't afford it?

I seriously fucking doubt it.

I can just hear a slick insurance salesman, saying in a polite voice to client who's private insurance just ran out, "We'd love to cover your claim, but the government makes it illegal. So you'll have to pay $300,000 if you want to live." He'd probably be smiling.

What a scam of a system.


--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 13,673
Loc: Smokey Mtns. TN Flag
Last seen: 4 months, 12 days
Re: Free Health Care: Illegal [Re: Silversoul]
    #3977311 - 03/27/05 09:20 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

The problem with healthcare is exactly that... Too much regulation. Doctors have to pay high malpractice driving up the cost of healthcare. Not only that but you have the pharmacuetical industry and any large buisnesses has their lobbying tentacles into the government. Where making it a law so people cant go into Canada and get cheaper drugs is a strike at a freemarket society.

Getting cheap deals is what capitalism is all about.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: Free Health Care: Illegal [Re: Silversoul]
    #3977334 - 03/27/05 09:26 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

The irony of this is that they were giving out health care for "free" and then billing the government for it.  Shit, I wish I could start a business giving something out for free only to be paid in full by the government.  That would be a very successful business.  :stoned:

The title of that story is totally misleading, if not an outright deception.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Free Health Care: Illegal [Re: Catalysis]
    #3977456 - 03/27/05 09:50 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Catalysis said:
The irony of this is that they were giving out health care for "free" and then billing the government for it.  Shit, I wish I could start a business giving something out for free only to be paid in full by the government.  That would be a very successful business.  :stoned:

The title of that story is totally misleading, if not an outright deception.



Ya, I realize it didn't exactly make its case very well.  I guess the thing here is that they would have charged the same to the government anyway, but refused to charge anything more than that.  I should've read it through more thoroughly before posting.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDirtMcgirt
in a pinch
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
Re: Free Health Care: Illegal [Re: Silversoul]
    #3981704 - 03/28/05 09:54 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Can you point to me where I said such a thing? It is merely one of many ways in which the government keeps health care costs high by unnecessary intervention in the economy.





You didn't say anything. You did post a worthless libertarian biased article that I wouldn't subject my trashcan to. And it DOES basically imply this. The desire for the highest possible profit margins combined with government intervention at that bows to the pharm lobbyists and insurance companies is why medical cost are so high.


--------------------
"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Private health care for Quebec Ancalagon 1,081 19 06/13/05 01:52 PM
by Rono
* For those against universal health care
( 1 2 3 all )
BrAiN 2,690 59 01/27/08 11:49 PM
by Arp
* Is anyone here a European citizen? Health Care Q BrAiN 1,834 16 09/24/07 01:09 PM
by Andy21
* NIghtmares of US health care carbonhoots 686 5 08/12/07 04:27 PM
by Luddite
* Semi-universal health care luvdemshrooms 326 1 01/27/08 07:52 PM
by Minstrel
* I think that universal health care in America is inevitable
( 1 2 3 all )
RandalFlagg
2,298 49 08/19/07 03:24 PM
by Luddite
* National health care Jive turkey 405 4 02/27/08 11:15 AM
by Arp
* Your Worst Nightmare ? Libertarian Health Care? Evolving 749 2 03/13/04 05:35 AM
by Baby_Hitler

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil
827 topic views. 1 members, 0 guests and 11 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
RVF Garden Supply
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.028 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 19 queries.