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OfflineZekebomb
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Registered: 08/24/03
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Information vs Meaning
    #3964794 - 03/24/05 02:31 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

is information always meaningful?
does meaning always contain information?

the only conclusion I've come to is that information is different from meaning. But how are they related to one another?

The example I was working through by myself was, let's say persons A and B are both hanging out, and they suddenly see some flashing on the horizon: short-short-short-long-long-long-short-short-short. Person A has no knowledge of Morse code, having spent his time differently from person B, who knows the code. So while person A sits there trying to make sense (i.e. find meaning) of the series of shorts and longs just in context of itself (for example, it could be 'meaningful' to person A that the series is a plaindrome, or a set of 3 3s), person B brings information he already has (that of Morse code) to bear on the series of dots and dashes to finally glean meaning from it.

In this case, information + information = meaning. discuss.


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Offlinebiglo
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Re: Information vs Meaning [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3964824 - 03/24/05 02:37 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

From what they teach in my college information sciences and technology courses at college, it appears data is what you are describing as information. Data on its own is just a collection of facts. Information is data that has meaning to a given person.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Information vs Meaning [Re: biglo]
    #3965494 - 03/24/05 05:27 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

meaning indicates that the data causes some recall
maybe stimulates some poised behaviour (attitude)
maybe just some obscure association.

this happens if the data is like something from your personal history
or that the data impinges on you indirectly (like acupuncture points are indirectly associated with organs) in such a way that something from your personal history seems in some way to be related.

most information is not meaningful at face
any information can be massaged (or accupuncted) to have meaning


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Information vs Meaning [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3966130 - 03/24/05 08:36 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

in form... in its form.. in its former..


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
Re: Information vs Meaning [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3966478 - 03/24/05 10:22 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Zekebomb said:
is information always meaningful?
does meaning always contain information?
.
the only conclusion I've come to is that information is different from meaning. But how are they related to one another?
.
In this case, information + information = meaning. discuss.



.
Perhaps in that case, it might of had meaning....  Morse code itself is close to how a fax machine works, electronically....  So, lets make another situation....  :grin:
.
Ya~ got buddy1 that has a buddy2 at a different place of employment, both have FAX machines, and both close in distance....  OK, so buddy1 writes on a piece of paper,
.
"Attn: "Buddy2", ( IYWLTGOTL,MATSPAY)"....
.
It means nothing to anyone, except for both buddies....  He then feeds it into Fax machine #1, to which it means nothing to the machine(#1), means nothing to the phone lines, and means nothing to Fax machine #2 where it prints out....  Another worker finds this Fax printout, and has no idea what it means at all, and perplexed, takes it to Buddy2....  This worker asks what it is supposed to mean, and buddy2 says that it is a lunch invitation from buddy1....  The worker nervously laughs in his incomprehension, and walks away.... 
.
So at lunch time, buddy2 goes to Taco Bell (where he had gone the day before), and met up with buddy1 for lunch....!   
.
So, where am I going with all of this....?    :shrug:  Perhaps out to eat at Taco Bell....!  :lol:


:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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OfflineLux
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Re: Information vs Meaning [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #3966528 - 03/24/05 10:37 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I believe, it is consciousness which projects meaning onto an aesthetic property of the universe. Everything is relative, it's really that simple. Nothing escapes relativity, what is to one may not be the same to another.


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
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Re: Information vs Meaning [Re: Lux]
    #3966542 - 03/24/05 10:41 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Lux said:
I believe, it is consciousness which projects meaning onto an aesthetic property of the universe. Everything is relative, it's really that simple. Nothing escapes relativity, what is to one may not be the same to another.



.
Yep, I believe you nailed my meaning right on the head....!    :lol: 

Love being projected atcha~....  :heartpump:  :sun:  :heartpump:


:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Information vs Meaning [Re: biglo]
    #3967497 - 03/25/05 03:07 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

biglo said:
From what they teach in my college information sciences and technology courses at college, it appears data is what you are describing as information. Data on its own is just a collection of facts. Information is data that has meaning to a given person.




hmm, yeah. okay. data is like the sound a tree makes when it falls in the woods with no one around. Or Morse Code flashing out in the woods, no one around. when you look at it that way, information and meaning are almost exactly the same.

redgreenvines: this happens if the data is like something from your personal history
or that the data impinges on you indirectly (like acupuncture points are indirectly associated with organs) in such a way that something from your personal history seems in some way to be related.


such as your knowledge of Morse code, which comes from your personal history of YMCA co-ed Morse Code classes. (Morse Coed.) Your information about what Morse code is, the translation to English, turns the raw data of any specific instance of Morse code back into information, which gives it meaning.

it starts to arrange itself into a spectrum:

DATA-----INFORMATION-----MEANING

but I still don't have a real concrete idea of what Meaning is, and I think I and most others have been sort of bandying the word around without a solid definition. Anyone got any proposals? For instance: www.answers.com/meaning&r=67

mean?ing (mē'nĭng)
n.
Something that is conveyed or signified; sense or significance.
Something that one wishes to convey, especially by language: The writer's meaning was obscured by his convoluted prose.
An interpreted goal, intent, or end: ?The central meaning of his pontificate is to restore papal authority? (Conor Cruise O'Brien).
Inner significance: ?But who can comprehend the meaning of the voice of the city?? (O. Henry).

er, yeah. oh, and Lux: Everything is relative, it's really that simple.
what about Absolute Zero? atoms can't oscillate any slower than that. oh, and how about the speed of light?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Information vs Meaning [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3967637 - 03/25/05 05:59 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

the thing with code is that the content after being decoded is still just information - data.
it has no meaning until it is relavent.
decryption does not give meaning, it just re-enables data to represent its original information.
meaning and relavence are synonymous.
relavence refers to relationships between entities.
meaning suggests the data is more vibrant or numinous.


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
Re: Information vs Meaning [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3967639 - 03/25/05 06:01 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Zekebomb said:
such as your knowledge of Morse code, which comes from your personal history of YMCA co-ed Morse Code classes. (Morse Coed.)




LMFAO.....!!!  :rotfl:  :lol:  :rotfl:  :lol:  :rotfl:  :lol:  :rotfl:  :lol: 


Quote:

it starts to arrange itself into a spectrum:
.
DATA-----INFORMATION-----MEANING
.
but I still don't have a real concrete idea of what Meaning is, and I think I and most others have been sort of bandying the word around without a solid definition.
.
er, yeah. oh, and Lux: Everything is relative, it's really that simple.
what about Absolute Zero? atoms can't oscillate any slower than that. oh, and how about the speed of light?



.
.
OK, I got it.....  :wink:
.
.
:sun:
CoMPReHeNTioN
..........DaTa <~~~~> InFoRMaTioN  ? ? :sun: YOU :sun: ? ? KNowLeDGe <~~~~> MeaNinG....
UNDeRSTanDinG

:sun:


.


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Information vs Meaning [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #3967849 - 03/25/05 10:07 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

meaning is you

ok


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
Re: Information vs Meaning [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3968043 - 03/25/05 11:39 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
meaning is you
.
ok



.
.
Like this....?    :smile:
.
.
:sun:
CoMPReHeNTioN
...............DaTa <~~~~> InFoRMaTioN  ? ? :sun: MEANING = YOU :sun: ? ? KNowLeDGe <~~~~>  InTeLLiGeNce
UNDeRSTanDinG

:sun:


.


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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OfflineLux
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Re: Information vs Meaning [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #3969145 - 03/25/05 04:14 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Those things are also subject to relativity.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Information vs Meaning [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #3969215 - 03/25/05 04:50 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

.
.
maybe Like this....?    :smile:
.
.
:sun:
InTeLLiGeNce
DaTa==InFoRMaTioN  -> :sun: MEANING ( YOU :sun:  <- KNowLeDGe (memory) )
UNDeRSTanDinG(=)CoMPReHeNsioN

:sun:


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Information vs Meaning [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24848476 - 12/15/17 08:21 PM (6 months, 8 hours ago)

Well, information is inscribed with meaning.. And that is a necessary is!

Meaning is one level above information.. NW.


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Information vs Meaning [Re: Zekebomb]
    #24848570 - 12/15/17 09:17 PM (6 months, 8 hours ago)

they are not two distinct things imo.

i would define meaning simplistically as: information that informs your behaviour.

information is never meaningless but it can be more or less relevant. i.e. if you were given the information

'the largest gold nugget was found 1869 at 72kg'

it likely would not be relevant and so not very meaningful or behaviour altering.

if it was that

'a cyclone is heading to your area'

then it very likely would.

for the example you gave the information person B knew of morse code i.e. the length of of the flashes corresponds to a letter in the alphabet allows them to perform the behaviour of spelling out the letters to to make a word. person A lacking this information does not perform the behaviour. from my POV the meaning of the word spelled out in morse will be determined by person B's future behaviour. if it spelt out 'sos' then that behaviour may involve calling emergency services for example...


as an aside the above should not be taken to convey humans as some kind of isolated 'information processing machines' but we should also recognise humans are enmeshed in relations of power with one another which informs behaviour, the interpretation of information and meaning (all of which are interrelated)


--------------------
dripping with fantasy


Edited by quinn (12/15/17 09:50 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Information vs Meaning [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #24848612 - 12/15/17 09:44 PM (6 months, 7 hours ago)

information is data (patterns) that can be taken in.
meaning is the resonance and connections that that data has with other data (patterns) already taken in.

Quote:

BrendanFlock said:...Meaning is one level above information.. NW.


one or more layers of familiarity to be specific (associated patterns)


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OfflineFrenetic Zetetic
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Re: Information vs Meaning [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24849125 - 12/16/17 04:17 AM (6 months, 1 hour ago)

How many layers of human abstraction until there are none...?


--------------------
"Take it easy, dude. But TAKE it!" - Terence McKenna


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Information vs Meaning [Re: Frenetic Zetetic]
    #24849283 - 12/16/17 08:19 AM (5 months, 30 days ago)

every view upon data is an abstraction, so since an infinite number of views are possible...


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