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 AaronEvil
The GuitarVillain
Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1,706
Loc: California
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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 Shooting up schools is soooo 5 years ago. 
#3957368 - 03/22/05 11:47 PM (19 years, 29 days ago) |
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I heard about the school shooting today while I was at work. The thing that disturbed me the most was that the kid was able to get police equipment to carry out the attack. Ok, so my thought was "If we are trying to fight terrorism (like many of our political leaders say) shouldnt we start at home by keeping POLICE EQUIPMENT away from insane children?" How is it possible for a kid to get police equipment? Simple, he took his grandfathers. I do not have a degree of any sort at the moment (I am in the process) but my limited schooling helps me come to the conclusion that maybe we need to keep our guns, vests, CAR KEYS, and other POLICE EQUIPMENT locked up. If police were required to leave their equipment (Including weapons) at the station when they clock out, there would be a little bit more security. Maybe that wouldnt have stopped this kid from shooting up his school, but at least it would have stopped him from using the cities equipment. Now we cant blame a stupid parent for not locking up their guns, we can only blame ourselves.
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There is not a lot of difference between a fox hole and a grave; but knowing that you dug your ditch and climbed in anyway.
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DadeMurphy
H4x0r
Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 908
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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Re: Shooting up schools is soooo 5 years ago. [Re: AaronEvil]
#3957427 - 03/23/05 12:03 AM (19 years, 29 days ago) |
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trudat
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 California
A E S T H E T I C S A T A N
Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 72,118
Loc: H A U N T E D H O U S E 
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Re: Shooting up schools is soooo 5 years ago. [Re: AaronEvil]
#3957497 - 03/23/05 12:29 AM (19 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
AaronEvil said:
If police were required to leave their equipment (Including weapons) at the station when they clock out, there would be a little bit more security.
It would seem that there would be less security as then there would be more armed criminals and citizens with concealed weapons permits with weapons in public than trained police officers.
Other than that, the fact that it was his grandfathers' POLICE EQUIPMENT and not just any Cops would reflect that he had access to the equipment because of a family connection and not because just any policeman had his equipment out of the station.
I do agree those types of items should not be easily accessible to minors without competent, informed and safety minded instruction.
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roby000
me
Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 9,189
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Re: Shooting up schools is soooo 5 years ago. [Re: California]
#3957552 - 03/23/05 12:49 AM (19 years, 29 days ago) |
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stoopid stoopid parents... you let another psyco make middle america panic and blame marylin manson again didnt you?
prevent highschool shootings early... pull out, and aim for her chin
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ricochet
Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 1,112
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Re: Shooting up schools is soooo 5 years ago. *DELETED* [Re: roby000]
#3957942 - 03/23/05 03:59 AM (19 years, 29 days ago) |
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Post deleted by ricochetReason for deletion: .
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ricochet
Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 1,112
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Re: Shooting up schools is soooo 5 years ago. [Re: ricochet]
#3957949 - 03/23/05 04:03 AM (19 years, 29 days ago) |
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P.S.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Shooting up schools is soooo 5 years ago. [Re: ricochet]
#3958955 - 03/23/05 11:26 AM (19 years, 28 days ago) |
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fyi, LNSG = Libertarian National Socialist Green (Party)
That is one hell of a combination.
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DNKYD
Turtle!
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 12,326
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Re: Shooting up schools is soooo 5 years ago. [Re: RandalFlagg]
#3958975 - 03/23/05 11:31 AM (19 years, 28 days ago) |
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Is that what they're calling the Nazi party now?
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tork900
Stranger
Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 2
Last seen: 19 years, 28 days
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Re: Shooting up schools is soooo 5 years ago. [Re: ricochet]
#3960326 - 03/23/05 03:21 PM (19 years, 28 days ago) |
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I find it interesting that this guy praises the kid in his acts of brave "sacrifice", along with those he killed. First of all, gunning down a group of kids unsuspecting of an assualt and then killing yourself for it is a cowardly, selfish, and cruel act. The individual at the head of this nationalist party stated clearly that society is to blame for this unfortunate act. Yet with his praise and acceptance of what happened, it seems clear to me that the type of societal change he wants must come from the blood of innocent citizens. What kind of reasoning is that? This country may have problems, but they certainly won't be fixed when violent acts are condoned, if not encouraged, over an interview that ended up turning into a mouthpiece for an extremist political group. How contradicting.
Lates Gates
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ricochet
Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 1,112
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Re: Shooting up schools is soooo 5 years ago. [Re: DNKYD]
#3960391 - 03/23/05 03:32 PM (19 years, 28 days ago) |
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Onlinetork900, I agree with your points. I think the person being interviewed hit on some of the problems but didn't offer any viable, non-extremist solutions. what points he did make became too diluted with idiotic rhetoric and endorsements for the LNSGP.
however:
Quote:
RandalFlagg said:
fyi, LNSG = Libertarian National Socialist Green (Party)
That is one hell of a combination.
indeed. it's actually a very well-played fantasy/troll/comedy act that has amusingly (to me) gained an actual following by those who don't realize it's a joke. go figure.
Quote:
DNKYD said:
Is that what they're calling the Nazi party now?
no.
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 13 years, 20 days
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Re: Shooting up schools is soooo 5 years ago. [Re: DNKYD]
#3960511 - 03/23/05 03:53 PM (19 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
DNKYD said:
Is that what they're calling the Nazi party now?
http://www.nazi.org/
can a indian be a Nazi?
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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"
We have "reckless fiscal policies"
America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.
Americans deserve better
Barack Obama
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 13 years, 20 days
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Re: Shooting up schools is soooo 5 years ago. [Re: lonestar2004]
#3960548 - 03/23/05 04:01 PM (19 years, 28 days ago) |
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Minnesota School Shooter was a Nazi
The Guardian By way of Drudge
Jeff Weise, the 17-year-old named in newspaper reports as the gunman in the Red Lake school shooting, may have been investigated last year in connection with a shooting threat to the school, according to posts made on a Nazi website.
Over a five-month period between March and August 2004, someone identifying himself as Weise posted numerous messages on a talkboard hosted by Nazi.org, the website of the Libertarian National Socialist Green party. The party promotes a Nazi philosophy of racial purity.
In March 2004, a chatroom participant tagged Todesengel ("angel of death") began a thread titled "Native American Nationalist?" and introduced himself as "Jeff Weise, a Native American from the Red Lake 'Indian' reservation in Minnesota". Todesengel expressed interest in joining the party and said he had done a great deal of research on Hitler, a man he much admired. Later in the thread, Todesengel changed his tag to NativeNazi. "When I was growing up, I was taught (like others) that Nazi's were (are) evil and that Hitler was a very evil man, ect," wrote Todesengel, in a quote not corrected for spelling and grammar. "Of course, not for a second did I believe this. Upon reading up on his actions, the ideals and issues the German Third Reich adressed, I began to see how much of a lie had been painted about them. They truly were doing it for the better."
On April 19 2004, he posted to the talkboard: "By the way, I'm being blamed for a threat on the school I attend because someone said they were going to shoot up the school on 4/20, Hitlers birthday, and just because I claim being a National Socialist, guess whom they've pinned?"
By May 26 the incident seemed to have blown over, with Todesengel posting: "But the school threat passed and I was cleared as a suspect, I'm glad for that. I don't much care for jail, I've never been there and I don't plan on it."
The gun rampage through the remote northern Minnesota reservation yesterday left 10 people dead. Reports suggested that Weise took a shotgun and at least one handgun belonging to his grandfather, a veteran local police officer. He shot his grandparents, who later died, before moving on to Red Lake high school and killing five students, a teacher, a security guard and ultimately himself.
Today the Libertarian National Socialist Green party said incidents such as yesterday's shooting were to be expected when "thinking people are crammed into an unthinking, irrational modern society".
"We knew [Weise] briefly through 34 posts he made on the forum. He expressed himself well and was clearly highly intelligent and contemplative, especially for one so young," the site's administrator said in statement posted today on Nazi.org.
"Weise participated in the forum in part because, unlike 'white nationalist' or 'white power' movements, the LNSG embraces all races as part of its vision of world nationalism. His statements on the site reflected a frustration with the populist politics and materialistic arrogance of modern society," the statement continued.
In a July 13 post, NativeNazi expressed his concern that Native Americans had turned their backs on racial purity and were being weakened by "interracial mixing". He was particularly annoyed that young Native Americans were copying the culture of African Americans.
"Where I live less than 1% of all the people on the Reservation can speak their own language, and among the youth wanting to be black has run ramped. We have kids my age killing each other over things as simple as a fight, and it's because of the rap influence. Wannabe-gangsters everywhere, I can't go 5 feet without hearing someone blasting some rap song over their speakers," he complained.
He went on: "It's hard though, being a Native American National Socialist, people are so misinformed, ignorant, and close minded it makes your life a living hell."
--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"
We have "reckless fiscal policies"
America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.
Americans deserve better
Barack Obama
Edited by lonestar2004 (03/23/05 04:02 PM)
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tork900
Stranger
Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 2
Last seen: 19 years, 28 days
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Re: Shooting up schools is soooo 5 years ago. [Re: lonestar2004]
#3962493 - 03/23/05 10:35 PM (19 years, 28 days ago) |
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hahha.....it sure does look like it...gotta keep tabs on that.
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trick
Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 1,059
Loc: unknown
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Re: Shooting up schools is soooo 5 years ago. [Re: tork900]
#3962791 - 03/23/05 11:41 PM (19 years, 28 days ago) |
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Maintaing racial "purity" and maintaining your culture are two very different aspects. I guess he couldn't grasp this concept or maybe he didn't want to. Most New National Socialists ideals revolve around segregation of races and culture. I agree that alot of people are misinformed about the National Socialist ideologies and this misinformation is proliferated by almost everyone in popular culture. I also acknowledge the fact that acts by the National Socialist German Worker's Party across Europe were horrific. However, I think that the demonization of one ideology has blanketed most of our society from seeing the ills of our own progression of hate & terror. It seems that this person blamed his own people for their racial "impurity" but it wasn't them who wished to have their people destroyed. It wasn't the jews that wished for anti-semitism. LNSG party, that's a unique combination if I have ever seen one.
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trick
Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 1,059
Loc: unknown
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Re: Shooting up schools is soooo 5 years ago. [Re: trick]
#3965985 - 03/24/05 05:43 PM (19 years, 27 days ago) |
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I want to bump this thread so please excuse me for the double post. I learned today that his life was fairly troubled and though that isn't an excuse for his actions it is a precursor to his acts. His father shot himself after a day long stand off with the police. His mother died from brain damage that resulted in a car accident while she was intoxicated. He had been living with his grandparents ever since.
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AaronEvil
The GuitarVillain
Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1,706
Loc: California
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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Re: Shooting up schools is soooo 5 years ago. [Re: trick]
#3967091 - 03/24/05 10:49 PM (19 years, 27 days ago) |
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Yeah, unfortunately I dont find his past as an excuse to kill anyone but himself. If he had taken only his life I would be fine (some people just arent meant to live). My only beef is that he got police equipment (even if it was his grandfathers). City property and police issued gear should be better protected than that. I also disagree with the admin to that neo-nazi forum he posted on. Its not society that caused the kid to shoot people, it was that forum and the irrational ideas that the admin was discussing in the interview above. If society was to blame, society would condone shooting other and killing family. The problem is, society doesnt, that forum does.
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There is not a lot of difference between a fox hole and a grave; but knowing that you dug your ditch and climbed in anyway.
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SoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst
Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 1,690
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Re: Shooting up schools is soooo 5 years ago. [Re: AaronEvil]
#3967109 - 03/24/05 10:53 PM (19 years, 27 days ago) |
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These kids are all feeling the same thing.
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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man
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DirtMcgirt
in a pinch
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
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Re: Shooting up schools is soooo 5 years ago. [Re: AaronEvil]
#3967795 - 03/25/05 07:11 AM (19 years, 26 days ago) |
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Whatever. A simple internet forum, no matter how important the internet is to your life, did not cause this boy to shoot up his school.
Go drive through a northern Minnesota Indian reservation and then you'll figure out why he did it....
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"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 10 months
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Re: Shooting up schools is soooo 5 years ago. [Re: AaronEvil]
#3967837 - 03/25/05 07:57 AM (19 years, 26 days ago) |
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Look up Jeff Weise on Wikipedia, there are several links to a collection of posts he made on a bunch of fascist web sites.
I read some of what he wrote, and he was apparently some self proclaimed "Native Nationalist Nazi" who hated virtually all other Natives because they apparently had no Native pride or culture, and acted like blacks.
This kid was obviously sick and stupid. He confused various political ideologies with one another, posted at a socialist website as a "Proud Nazi" and reportedly had a habit of calling other kids at school "Communists".
My thoughts on the subject.. when one is still in high school, it becomes a little world of sorts. It seems virtually all school shooters are loners who take a comfort in extreme Right wing ideologies. Once in awhile these benighted youngings see it fit to create their own mini-holocaust. It's quite sad really, because chances are if Jeff Weise or the Columbine killers simply toughed it out for a few years, by the time they're in their early 20s they would likely have lost all interest this strange teenage subculture of gothic hitlerism. Even the most extreme adult fascists can see how utterly childish it is to shoot up your high school and off yourself afterwards in the name of Adolf Hitler. The general evil and ignorance that is within humans evidently surfaces once in awhile in such events. If Hitler were born today, chances are he would end up shooting up his high school as a teenager before rising to power as a fascist dictator.
And finally, yes... School shootings are definately a Pre-9-11 thing. These days disillusioned youths take out their anger on the Bush Administration instead of their peers.
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 10 months
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Re: Shooting up schools is soooo 5 years ago. [Re: AaronEvil]
#3967841 - 03/25/05 08:01 AM (19 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
AaronEvil said:
Yeah, unfortunately I dont find his past as an excuse to kill anyone but himself. If he had taken only his life I would be fine (some people just arent meant to live). My only beef is that he got police equipment (even if it was his grandfathers). City property and police issued gear should be better protected than that. I also disagree with the admin to that neo-nazi forum he posted on. Its not society that caused the kid to shoot people, it was that forum and the irrational ideas that the admin was discussing in the interview above. If society was to blame, society would condone shooting other and killing family. The problem is, society doesnt, that forum does.
His grandfather protected his police gear. Jeff Weise shot his grandfather to get it. I don't know why you're bent on the police gear issue. It doesn't matter how well secured his police gear was, this kid shot his grand dad to get it.
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trick
Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 1,059
Loc: unknown
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Re: Shooting up schools is soooo 5 years ago. [Re: zahudulallah]
#3967873 - 03/25/05 08:21 AM (19 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
AaronEvil said:
Yeah, unfortunately I dont find his past as an excuse to kill anyone but himself. If he had taken only his life I would be fine (some people just arent meant to live). My only beef is that he got police equipment (even if it was his grandfathers). City property and police issued gear should be better protected than that. I also disagree with the admin to that neo-nazi forum he posted on. Its not society that caused the kid to shoot people, it was that forum and the irrational ideas that the admin was discussing in the interview above. If society was to blame, society would condone shooting other and killing family. The problem is, society doesnt, that forum does.
That's not true. You have to understand that he's come from a culture that was decimated by Anglo-Americans. I would think that a subconscious unsettlement would arise in those that know of the horrors that have taken place. Especially, against his own people. His past was a byproduct of today's society. His mother was intoxicated and receieved brain damage in a car accident. Those consist of products of our civilization & society. Cars & alcohol. To say that someone's actions aren't shaped by society when they are a member of it is a discrepancy. Conflicting with the general idea that perception is reality. Your perception is morphed by society.
Quote:
zahudulallah said:
Look up Jeff Weise on Wikipedia, there are several links to a collection of posts he made on a bunch of fascist web sites.
I read some of what he wrote, and he was apparently some self proclaimed "Native Nationalist Nazi" who hated virtually all other Natives because they apparently had no Native pride or culture, and acted like blacks.
This kid was obviously sick and stupid. He confused various political ideologies with one another, posted at a socialist website as a "Proud Nazi" and reportedly had a habit of calling other kids at school "Communists".
My thoughts on the subject.. when one is still in high school, it becomes a little world of sorts. It seems virtually all school shooters are loners who take a comfort in extreme Right wing ideologies. Once in awhile these benighted youngings see it fit to create their own mini-holocaust. It's quite sad really, because chances are if Jeff Weise or the Columbine killers simply toughed it out for a few years, by the time they're in their early 20s they would likely have lost all interest this strange teenage subculture of gothic hitlerism. Even the most extreme adult fascists can see how utterly childish it is to shoot up your high school and off yourself afterwards in the name of Adolf Hitler. The general evil and ignorance that is within humans evidently surfaces once in awhile in such events. If Hitler were born today, chances are he would end up shooting up his high school as a teenager before rising to power as a fascist dictator.
And finally, yes... School shootings are definately a Pre-9-11 thing. These days disillusioned youths take out their anger on the Bush Administration instead of their peers.
I'll be a nice guy and say he was confused at heart. He was also hypocritical. Claiming his fellow people of not embracing their culture while at the same time not embracing his own. I mean..come on. What Native American tribe do you know of that commited genocide? Yet, he idolized Hitler to an extent.
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 10 months
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Re: Shooting up schools is soooo 5 years ago. [Re: trick]
#3967906 - 03/25/05 08:38 AM (19 years, 26 days ago) |
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Nice sig
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exclusive58
illegal alien
Registered: 04/16/04 
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
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Re: Shooting up schools is soooo 5 years ago. [Re: ricochet]
#3967947 - 03/25/05 08:57 AM (19 years, 26 days ago) |
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ricochet, thanx for posting that interview, it was pretty interesting actually.
Indeed, today's society is a hard thing to look at for a teenager that is relatively new to the existence on this planet. It does bring out a feeling of despair when you realize what the motor of this society is: materialism.
Quote from the interview;
"I believe modern society has lost its way and replaced our natural way of life with a soul-destroying, nature-consuming, hollow existence in pursuit of material pleasures."
I think this is a true and predominant feeling that teenagers all around the globe are sensing. The fact that America is where this feeling is the strongest is the reason why it is where the reactions are the most violent.
Somewhere in my heart, i feel for the guy who committed these crimes, i know where he came from, i feel the despair he must have felt that led to such an act. Although i would never be able to shoot someone randomly, i don't judge him for what he did. Its a call from the heart to alert people that things aren't going the right way.
And somewhere, one could argue that he couldn't do anything better with his life than this. He might have killed ten people, but at the same time he might have awakened 10,000 others to the situation our society is in today.
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: Shooting up schools is soooo 5 years ago. [Re: AaronEvil]
#3967994 - 03/25/05 09:19 AM (19 years, 26 days ago) |
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You can be a National Socialist of any race, simply because being a National Socialist revolves around maintaining the purity of your race, and separating the other races and breeding with the other races from it. White people may be the most common National Socialists, but the word can apply to any (presumably) racially pure person of one race who wants to preserve that race.
I read Jeff Weis' livejournal on Wikipedia, it's http://www.livejournal.com/users/weise/ for people interested. On his userinfo, he claims to be a Native American stoner, quite a marijuana smoker.
Also, isn't Libertarian National Socialist Green party full of contradictions? Those three idealogies would definitely have some rough spots if they were combined, I wonder how they deal with it.
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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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AaronEvil
The GuitarVillain
Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1,706
Loc: California
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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Re: Shooting up schools is soooo 5 years ago. [Re: trick]
#3971149 - 03/26/05 12:21 AM (19 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
trick said:
That's not true. You have to understand that he's come from a culture that was decimated by Anglo-Americans. I would think that a subconscious unsettlement would arise in those that know of the horrors that have taken place. Especially, against his own people. His past was a byproduct of today's society. His mother was intoxicated and receieved brain damage in a car accident. Those consist of products of our civilization & society. Cars & alcohol. To say that someone's actions aren't shaped by society when they are a member of it is a discrepancy. Conflicting with the general idea that perception is reality. Your perception is morphed by society.
Dont get me wrong, I feel for the trouble the kid went through; however, I dont think his culture is a reason to kill people. Every culture went through something similar. But in the US you can get away with saying you do stupid shit because "your people" were slaves. I can understand being upset by stuff like that, but I dont think killing RANDOM people is a way to solve it. I think his mind is shaped by society, all our minds are, but society isnt to blame for our actions. When will people start accepting blame for what they did? Its always someone elses fault. If I shoot myself in the head, its not societies fault, its mine for putting a gun to my head and pulling the trigger. He shot 10 people, he is responsible for 10 peoples deaths. No where in society (at least the society I live in) is killing your peers accepted. To say that society called out and told him to do this is not something I can take in easily. I also dont agree that taking 10 lives is a trade off for making 10,000 people aware of a situation that may or may not be happening. My point... blame him for his actions.
By the way, I can see how a lot of people feel the same kind of feeling that he felt. The difference is you dont shoot up schools or the office. So if you dont do it, why does he? Its obviously not a society thing otherwise we would all be doing it.
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There is not a lot of difference between a fox hole and a grave; but knowing that you dug your ditch and climbed in anyway.
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