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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Anti-Freedom
    #3951127 - 03/21/05 11:20 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I wasn't sure whether to post this here or in S&P, but I've noticed that a lot of people are uneasy with, if not hostile to, freedom. No, I'm not talking about terrorists or John Ashcroft, but normal people. It seems to do with the fact that with freedom comes responsibility, which many people are terrified of. Others whom I've talked with don't even seem to get the concept of responsibility. I guess I've always taken it for granted that freedom is a good thing, and never really realized how much it scares people. Is there anything that can be done about this? Is there any way to show people the value of freedom?


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InvisibleDark_Star
jizzing skull penis
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 29,740
Loc: Kratmandu
Re: Anti-Freedom [Re: Silversoul]
    #3951151 - 03/21/05 11:25 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not sure, but I'm going to try. It blows my mind that so many people remain so unaware or uncaring in the face of all the hatred, intolerance, ignorance and lack of freedom. I'm planning on doing all I can to change the world......yeah it's a long shot, but it's worth trying. I won't be able to live with myself, and won't be able to bring more life into this world if I don't.


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Offlinezahudulallah
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Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Anti-Freedom [Re: Silversoul]
    #3952239 - 03/22/05 03:47 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Society is only as good as the pack of wolves voting on what's for dinner. Unfortunately, because of "normal people" the state legislates morality. Not too long ago the local police released the names of a bunch of men charged with solicitating sex from men at a city park at night. The paper printed the names of a handful of people, many married middle aged men. One man was charged with sexual assault for grabbing the crotch of an undercover cop who was walking around there at night. The gay community, utterly outraged called it a complete throwback to pre-Stonewall times, when police used public decency laws to out homosexuals. When four cops were shot dead here over a grow op - while intelligent people thought it would spark a debate to legalize marijuana, the ignorant masses made their voices heard and demonized marijuana - some local columnists even called marijuana users "supporters of cop killers". It's even worse in the post 9-11 era because it has resulted in a conservative uprising.


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InvisibleCJay
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Registered: 02/02/04
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Re: Anti-Freedom [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3952410 - 03/22/05 07:17 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

With freedom comes responsibility....something the world's rapacious capitalist corporations and governments should pay heed to.

Unfortunately the 'freedom' handed down to most people is mostly just a bit of feel good double-speak. The corps and governments know that most want to be herded, yet most also want to feel like they are in charge. Give them the illusion and everyone is happy.


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OfflineCyber
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Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 1,476
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Re: Anti-Freedom [Re: CJay]
    #3952457 - 03/22/05 08:46 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Nice topic!

Today freedom is but a dim flicker of the flame it once was. I personally attribute it to the fact that most kids are not raised in a free society. Just as I was not raised in a free society. Because of this and the fact that they are told "The freedoms of the constitution do not apply to you" they grow up scared of freedom.

If you think about it, were do our youth spend most of there time? Government run public school! When I was in school, and even today with my kids school, there are no freedoms in school.

There is no freedom of speech. The schools have sent home long lists of topics that are not to be discussed and items of clothing that are not to be worn.
There is no freedom of religion. Schools have made repeated attempts to force christian ideals and prier. When they loose the battle they flip it and say "No religion will be discussed at any time on school property"
There is no freedom of the press. The school sent home a note outlining the fact that the school newspaper is the only news paper allowed to be distributed on school property.
There is no right to keep and bear arms. I am not talking about guns! I am talking about ANYTHING the schools decided can be used as a weapon. This includes cans of hair spray, pocket knives, and deodorant.
There is no right to to be secure in your persons, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures. They will do random locker checks, pat down students that "look funny", and confiscate anything they do not like.

Our public schools raise our kids in a totalitarian regime stripped of there rights. Then when the kids get out we expect them to be freedom loving Americans? NO, they have been programmed to believe that freedom is bad and no one should have it!

Personally I take it upon my self to teach my kids to protest the B.S. that the school is dishing out. I defend them when they are within there rights and help them to understand that we are a free people. I just recently helped my daughter make a shirt to test the rule "No student will ware any clothing that may be construed to promote the use or legalization any illegal substance."

We maybe a shirt that had the following on the back
:thumbup:



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Invisibletrick

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 1,059
Loc: unknown
Re: Anti-Freedom [Re: Cyber]
    #3952776 - 03/22/05 10:59 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Why tell people they are enslaved if it's easier to tell them they are free? The public school system is one of the essential institutions that spreads this dillusional mentality among children. Teachers tell their students that "there's no democracy in the classroom" and when you see the kind of enviroment they are taught in then how can you expect the generations of youth to manage a democratic society? There is no democratic society. I don't think it's the subconscious will of the majority to be enslaved because alot of revolutionaries stem from the majority of people. This is wage slavery. However, I do think that people become accustomed to it over time.
The responsibility that is required to maintain freedom is the ability to protect it. Governments systematically take away freedoms until people seem happy with what they have. That's not to say that people who want pure freedom are greedy, it means that the people as a whole deserve more. Zahudulallah's analogy was a good one. How can civilization, with all of it's discontents, set a good example?
Destroying the enviroment, killing indigenous peoples, & brainwashing the masses. The bigger the lie, the more people who will believe.

Corporations, governments, & conformists set public opinions.
They make it where people came become mentally unwilling to step into dissent. Our society isolates people in certain aspects & public opinion makes them step away from controservial subjects that threatens relationships. Civilization & government politics are the root of social decay.


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Offlinezahudulallah
Sexual Heretic

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Anti-Freedom [Re: Cyber]
    #3953192 - 03/22/05 01:34 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

You should market those shirts on here for the Shroomery's parents. :lol:


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Anti-Freedom [Re: Silversoul]
    #3953203 - 03/22/05 01:37 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)


Is there any way to show people the value of freedom?

In my opinion...no. The only time people appreciate true freedom (or anything) is when they have to fight for it. When people don't have to fight or engage in effort for something they become complacent.

True freedom is one of the scariest things a person can engage in. It gives a person the opportunity to pursue whatever they want, but it also entails risk and possible failure. It is too scary for most people.

For a few brave and intrepid souls, freedom is necessary. For the mass majority of men, it is not.


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Offlinezahudulallah
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Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
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Re: Anti-Freedom [Re: CJay]
    #3953227 - 03/22/05 01:44 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

One has to ask, will we ever be free? 40 years ago in the 60's, the future was bright as fire. One would think that significant changes would have been made since then. But really no progress has been made. Most people eventually gave up trying to change the world - and now these same people are now at the age where they start entering politcal office. If we're lucky they became "Massachusettes liberal" democrats like John Kerry, but all of them support the same oppressive, unconstitutional drug laws.


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Offlinezahudulallah
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Registered: 10/21/04
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Re: Anti-Freedom [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3953239 - 03/22/05 01:47 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Interesting take, Randal. What's your take on the drug war?


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Registered: 03/06/02
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Re: Anti-Freedom [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3953769 - 03/22/05 03:25 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

You're forgetting that the 60's is when we reversed racial inequality.


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
Re: Anti-Freedom [Re: Silversoul]
    #3953823 - 03/22/05 03:36 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

People don't want freedom. Why don't we have vouchers and school choice? We have it within our power to end the educational monopoly. We need to stop having our kids indoctrinated by the government.


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InvisibleDark_Star
jizzing skull penis
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 29,740
Loc: Kratmandu
Re: Anti-Freedom [Re: Cyber]
    #3953936 - 03/22/05 03:55 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Great post Cyber!


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Anti-Freedom [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3953963 - 03/22/05 04:00 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)


What's your take on the drug war?

I apply the same basic views on human freedom to the drug war.

I think it is a basic right to be able to put whatever you want into your body. A basic right is a freedom. Freedom is something that should be aspired to and some people deserve it. Unfortunately, most people don't.

I understand why drugs are illegal. Too many people do too much dumb stuff because of them.

I think it is within a person's right to disobey a law that most other people should obey if:

1. The person is responsible and mature.

2. The action will not harm anybody else.

If you have those two characteristics, then I think it is ok to disobey laws(whether they pertain to drugs or not).

I am a bit of a walking contradiction. I believe in society and the rule of law. But at the same time, sometimes the law can be or needs to be broken when a responsible human being deems it desirable or necessary.


Edited by RandalFlagg (03/22/05 04:11 PM)


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Offlinezahudulallah
Sexual Heretic

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Anti-Freedom [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3954121 - 03/22/05 04:46 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
You're forgetting that the 60's is when we reversed racial inequality.




Among other things.. it created pro-sex feminism, and homosexuals also rose up against police harassment.


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Offlinezahudulallah
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Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
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Re: Anti-Freedom [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3954142 - 03/22/05 04:52 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

You are a walking contradiction. You believe drug laws must remain, yet believe one should have the freedom to put whatever they please into their body? See, that doesn't make sense because when someone is busted with a personal cache of drugs, their freedom is being taken away.

And society - you put your trust in society? That's what average folk have been doing since the start of time.


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Offlinefaslimy
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Registered: 04/04/04
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Re: Anti-Freedom [Re: Cyber]
    #3954176 - 03/22/05 04:58 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I heard in America you have to put your hand on your chest and sing that "I pledge allegiance to the flag" stuff at school.. indoctrination

You are actually performing a satanist ritual when u do that hand over your heart thing o_O


Edited by faslimy (03/22/05 04:58 PM)


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Invisibletrick

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 1,059
Loc: unknown
Re: Anti-Freedom [Re: faslimy]
    #3954258 - 03/22/05 05:18 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

faslimy said:
I heard in America you have to put your hand on your chest and sing that "I pledge allegiance to the flag" stuff at school.. indoctrination

You are actually performing a satanist ritual when u do that hand over your heart thing o_O




It used to be a socialist salute until it got a bad rep from hitler.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Anti-Freedom [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3955020 - 03/22/05 07:28 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)


You believe drug laws must remain, yet believe one should have the freedom to put whatever they please into their body?

I think each "drug" should be individually considered. Lumping together a bunch of different substances with different effects under one category will do nothing but create generalizations, miseducation, and misunderstandings.

The positives of marijuana outweigh the negatives by far. It should be completely legal in my opinion. But, other drugs are not so easily considered. In my opinion, the negatives of meth outweigh the positives.

So, I think it is a right to be able to put what you want into your body. But if it negatively affects those around you, then it is a much more shady area.


See, that doesn't make sense because when someone is busted with a personal cache of drugs, their freedom is being taken away.

I don't see anything wrong with someone sitting at home, getting high all day, and killing themselves with some harmful substance. I do see a problem when they don't take care of their kids or they steal to support their habit.


And society - you put your trust in society? That's what average folk have been doing since the start of time.

I put my trust in the concept of society, not society as we see it today. I like the positive aspects of society. I like it when people cooperate, help each other, have shared attributes, and engage in comradery.


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OfflineCyber
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Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 1,476
Loc: Dearborn Michigan
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Re: Anti-Freedom [Re: faslimy]
    #3956296 - 03/22/05 11:18 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

faslimy said:
I heard in America you have to put your hand on your chest and sing that "I pledge allegiance to the flag" stuff at school.. indoctrination





Now days, You do not have to.

Quote:


You are actually performing a satanist ritual when u do that hand over your heart thing o_O




Ok, I had never heard this one. Let me ask you this, Do you know what the word "Satan" means and where it comes from? I tend to get a little fed up with Christians using it as a catch all for stuff they do not want to believe in.


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