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OfflineViaggio
ChemicalConsumer

Registered: 07/05/03
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Observations from tea...
    #3949371 - 03/21/05 04:36 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

This could be the wrong forum, but I figure the members who frequent this board are more likely to know. When making tea, I notice how the mushrooms change in color from a vivid dark blue to a green and fresh white color. Unless I'm mistaken, the blue is a property of psilocybin's interaction with water (and/or oxygen?). But what does the green indicate?

FYI: I usually do a slow boil for an hour with a small amount of vinegar and alcohol added. A subtle bluish foam collects on top during the boil (I assume it's the good stuff).

Thanks for your input.


--------------------
"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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InvisibleATWAR
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Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 1,640
Loc: #108768 in line...
Re: Observations from tea... [Re: Viaggio]
    #3964390 - 03/24/05 12:47 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Try adding some Ascorbic acid to the brew water before you make the tea. The color will not change (except maybe brown). All you need is about 1/4 - 1/2 of a vitamin C tablet. I have personally experienced an increase in quality of product when employing this method...



Color changes in psilocybian mushrooms are frequently blue/green.



BTW, you may want to decrease the boiling time, an hour sounds a little excessive. Heat is the enemy. Instead of boiling for that long try boiling for a few minutes, then let it steep for an hour. Use a jar, and remember to shake well during the steeping process...


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To give is to live...



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InvisibleSoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 1,690
Re: Observations from tea... [Re: Viaggio]
    #3964544 - 03/24/05 01:27 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I've never seen true proof of the psilocin/psilocybin turning blue "myth". I've seen psilocybin crystals that were microwaved in distilled water and they still didn't turn blue.


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


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Offlinetriptamine
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Re: Observations from tea... [Re: SoopaX]
    #3964762 - 03/24/05 02:26 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Psilocybin is quite stable and won't turn blue. The blue is caused by the less stable psilocin decomposing into a quinone which has a blue color. Pure psilocin crystals (which are slightly yellow) will turn greenish-blue if left out in air for several weeks. At room temp, the decomposition is somewhat slow, but at near boiling temps and especially in high oxygen enviroments, decomposition can be rapid.

Triptamine


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OfflineAeolus1369
Dr. Seahorse
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Registered: 05/20/02
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Re: Observations from tea... [Re: ATWAR]
    #3968235 - 03/25/05 12:33 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

The ascorbic acid is an anti-oxidant, so perhaps it has a protective effect on the psilocin.


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Offlinetriptamine
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Re: Observations from tea... [Re: Aeolus1369]
    #3969378 - 03/25/05 05:35 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Hello Aeolus,

What you say is true....in fact, it is fairly stable in an ascorbic acid solution.

Triptamine


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: Observations from tea... [Re: triptamine]
    #3970030 - 03/25/05 09:06 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

It does indeed seem to protect the goods, that is for sure. I was overwhelmed with the potency when I added vitamin C. Anytime I can use less to achieve the desired effects is definetly a good thing.



But I have a question. Why is it that when the solution has already undergone the color change, the addition of ascorbic acid will revert it back to normal? I read about this in another post, which is what inspired me to try it. It is an interesting thing to watch, like something out of high school chemistry. The color can be black/blue, add a little Vitamin C, and bingo! Back to water with brown mushroom chunks...

Curious to know what is happening in this reaction...


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Offlinetriptamine
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Re: Observations from tea... [Re: ATWAR]
    #3971618 - 03/26/05 08:39 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

When psilocin decomposes, it will turn blue and change in to a quinone. Vitamin C will remove the blue color, but what is happening? Does it change back into psilocin? I doubt it, but don't know for sure. Perhaps someone can do a test with some very old and non-potent fungus?

Triptamine


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OfflineAeolus1369
Dr. Seahorse
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Registered: 05/20/02
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Re: Observations from tea... [Re: triptamine]
    #3975269 - 03/27/05 07:42 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

triptamine said:
When psilocin decomposes, it will turn blue and change in to a quinone.
Triptamine




Do you happen to have the source for this and maybe a mechanism of action for the reaction? If psilocin decomposes into a quinone, then it must look like the molecule found here but rather than an OH attached to the tryptamine, you'd have just an O with a double bond, thereby making a quinone. Now it's been a while since I took o-chem, but is it possible that an acid could protonate the oxygen and restore the molecule to psilocin? Seems like a suspiciously easy way to recover actives.

Any chemists out there? If I don't get a response, I may create a new post dedicated to this question, after some research of course.

--Aeolus


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Offlinetriptamine
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Re: Observations from tea... [Re: Aeolus1369]
    #3975303 - 03/27/05 08:13 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Hello Aeolus,

Let me see if I can find the reference.....

THE ENZYMIC DEPHOSPHORYLATION AND OXIDATION OF PSILOCYBIN AND PSCILOCIN BY MAMMALIAN TISSUE HOMOGENATES*

Biochemical Pharmacology, 1961, VoL 7, pp. 47-54. Pergamon Press Ltd., Printed in Great Britain.

I have the text in PDF format, or you can get the paper at erowid in their reference section.

Triptamine


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OfflineAeolus1369
Dr. Seahorse
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Registered: 05/20/02
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Re: Observations from tea... [Re: Viaggio]
    #3975324 - 03/27/05 08:25 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I couldn't find it by doing a search in Erowid...would you mind posting a direct link?

And this sounds like what happens in vivo rather than what happens in in vitro as in when making tea


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Offlinetriptamine
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Re: Observations from tea... [Re: Aeolus1369]
    #3976664 - 03/27/05 06:34 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)



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OfflineAeolus1369
Dr. Seahorse
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Re: Observations from tea... [Re: triptamine]
    #3979325 - 03/28/05 06:17 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

That link takes me to a page that says "No Abstract Available." Do actually have a copy of the whole paper I could take a look at? I'd be happy to PM my e-mail address


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Offlinetriptamine
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Re: Observations from tea... [Re: Aeolus1369]
    #3979410 - 03/28/05 08:30 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Just click on "full text" on the left to download the PDF file. If you have trouble, you can send me your email address.

Thanks,

Triptamine


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