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lilbilski4life
fear andloathing inbozeman

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 199
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
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are u proud to be a American citizen?
#3944325 - 03/20/05 02:07 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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are u proud to be a American citizen
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lilbilski4life
fear andloathing inbozeman

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 199
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: lilbilski4life]
#3944333 - 03/20/05 02:09 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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i am, but i don't support this country right now cus were in a pointless war
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: lilbilski4life]
#3945405 - 03/20/05 05:26 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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In spite of all the shit this country does nowadays, I still say yes. I believe in the principles that our forefathers fought for. I feel privileged to live in such a country. I feel we've fallen a long way, but I think there's still hope.
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Basidiocarp
Dr. BunsenHoneydew


Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 395
Loc: Rogue's Island, USA
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: Silversoul]
#3946038 - 03/20/05 07:40 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said: In spite of all the shit this country does nowadays, I still say yes. I believe in the principles that our forefathers fought for. I feel privileged to live in such a country. I feel we've fallen a long way, but I think there's still hope.
Ditto, I feel the same way. We should be fighting for "regime change" here at home instead of the Middle East. We need to get back on track-- the Founding Fathers, I think, would be disgusted by what's been going on here with both our domestic and foreign policies.
-------------------- "...if the mind is actually part of a continuum, a labyrinth that is connected not only to every other mind that exists or has existed, but to every atom, organism, and region in the vastness of space and time itself, the fact that it is able to occasionally make forays into the labyrinth and have transpersonal experiences no longer seems so strange."
Visit the Psychonautical Society
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faslimy
Dead Man

Registered: 04/04/04
Posts: 3,436
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: Silversoul]
#3946750 - 03/20/05 10:03 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Sure, the founding fathers wrote some great principals.. on paper. They were really a thing to be patriotic about.
Anti royalist weren't they? Kinda funny then how they belonged to the royal secret society. Kinda weird how they fought the war of independence against the royals then. Kinda weird how that American heaven was systematically ushered out and this new one is still praised because they still call it 'America'
kinda makes me sigh painfully
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: faslimy]
#3946760 - 03/20/05 10:07 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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You know, you really should get checked out for schizophrenia. I'm worried about you, man.
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faslimy
Dead Man

Registered: 04/04/04
Posts: 3,436
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: Silversoul]
#3946769 - 03/20/05 10:09 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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You reckon? shit, maybe the CIA came round and programmed my mind to do assasinations for them
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Basidiocarp
Dr. BunsenHoneydew


Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 395
Loc: Rogue's Island, USA
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: faslimy]
#3947271 - 03/21/05 01:29 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
faslimy said: Sure, the founding fathers wrote some great principals.. on paper. They were really a thing to be patriotic about.
Anti royalist weren't they? Kinda funny then how they belonged to the royal secret society.
Although they were opposed to the idea of having a king, I think a more important goal for the Founding Fathers in bringing about the Revolution was the fact that they were tired of being subject to the rule of a government across the ocean in which they had ZERO representation ("No taxation without representation," the Boston Tea Party, and all that jazz.) The American revolution was different from the French in that it was not driven nearly so much by a hatred of royalty brougtht about by years of oppression, poverty, and class separation, as much as it was driven by a desire for autonomy from a meddling government far away that was not allowing the Colonies to participate in representative democracy.
And what royal secret society are you talking about? Please enighten me. So what if most of the Founding Fathers were "landed gentry" and had a decent amount of collective money, power, and some land. The people with money back then (and unfotunately still now to some degree) also had the educaton, and so it would stand to reason that these guys would be the ones gathering together to draft a Declaration of Independence and then craft a brilliant outline for a representative democray in the Constitution.
Don't shit on the Framers of our Constitution. Their work has a hell of a lot of merit both on and off paper, IMHO.
And to the folks who vote NO and say they are not proud to be Americans: You need to seriously ask yourself why the hell you are still a citizen of this country then. If you are embarrassed to call yourself an American, then either fight for some change so you can be proud again, or get the f*ck out and get some citizenship somewhere else where you can be proud. But don't sit around here and reap the benefits that living in America has to offer, whilst saying you're embarrassed to be here. That's hypocrisy of the highest order.
-------------------- "...if the mind is actually part of a continuum, a labyrinth that is connected not only to every other mind that exists or has existed, but to every atom, organism, and region in the vastness of space and time itself, the fact that it is able to occasionally make forays into the labyrinth and have transpersonal experiences no longer seems so strange."
Visit the Psychonautical Society
Edited by Basidiocarp (03/21/05 01:48 AM)
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mantis


Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 5,235
Loc: Bunker Alpha, GMC
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: lilbilski4life]
#3949222 - 03/21/05 02:08 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm proud of being American as a whole. Although, I'm a bit disgusted by the current political climate and parts of history (slavery, Indian massacres, etc)
MANTIS' SUPER DUPER NATIONALISM SCALE
[proud]------X---------------------[ashamed]
I'm about right on that X
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker


Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: lilbilski4life]
#3954207 - 03/22/05 03:04 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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I am proud of what this country was based on, and the extraordinary potential it had, and still has to an extent.
I am not proud, for the most part, of the condition it is in today. It needs to be restored before its full potential for freedom can shine, rather than just jailing its own citizens and pissing people off around the world.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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ETetc
Stranger
Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 1
Last seen: 18 years, 10 months
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: Ravus]
#3958437 - 03/23/05 09:15 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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I am proud to be an American, but "my country right or wrong" are truly the words of a traitor. If we do not stand up for what we believe then we lose what it means to be free which includes a duty to respect the freedom of others first before we can expect the same for ourselves. Not speaking the truth is the opposite of speaking the truth, if we do not speak to our ideals and hopes and visions for the good, we fall short and do not give ourselves or our country the respect it deserves from its appreciative citizens. We must not give up what makes this country great which is the freedom of its people to speak up for change and work for the human justice and goodness we hold so dear.
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moog
Stranger

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1,296
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: lilbilski4life]
#3962614 - 03/23/05 11:06 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm not proud to be American, because I was born here. I'm suspicious of people saying they are proud of the country they were born in. It's not like they chose to live there. It's usually just cultural indoctrination. If they were born in Norway they'd probably be proud to be Norwegian too. Patriotism and nationalism just don't make sense to me.
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blaze2
The Witness


Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 1,883
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: moog]
#3963230 - 03/24/05 01:19 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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I have to say Moog is completely right its just like religion when small children are forced into church they almost always take the bait when if they had waited till they were say 18 to be exposed to religion most would laugh at the masses of idiots who believe in a fairy tale. I think america is moving in the wrong direction(more to the right, and a quiet deteriation of seperation of church and state.), and your right basidio carp, Ill be leaving some day, as soon as I can afford it. Straight to Canada. Believe me Im only here because I got no where else I can go at the moment. America is the land of INTOLERANCE. not freedom. Thats all I got to say. Peace
blaze2
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
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Locus



Registered: 03/11/04
Posts: 6,112
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: lilbilski4life]
#3963307 - 03/24/05 01:42 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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I suppose in some ways. But I'd rather just look past where we're from and all of that stuff, it doesn't matter.
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The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity. ~ Albert Einstein "Fear is the great barrier to human growth." ~ Dr. Robert Monroe ~~~*Dosis sola facit venenum*~~~ *Check my profile to listen to my music*
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i_rage_against
Mwaa ha ha


Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 798
Loc: a shithole in the northwe...
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: lilbilski4life]
#3966361 - 03/24/05 07:51 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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not at all "each day thousands of children die from starvation, while the U.S. spends millions to drop bombs on 'brown countries'"
-------------------- whoever told you that is your enemy.
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Dark_Star
train driver pervading a desktop


Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 31,859
Loc: Uranus
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: lilbilski4life]
#3970381 - 03/25/05 08:50 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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No, America sucks.
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Basidiocarp
Dr. BunsenHoneydew


Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 395
Loc: Rogue's Island, USA
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: i_rage_against]
#3970395 - 03/25/05 08:59 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
i_rage_against said: not at all "each day thousands of children die from starvation, while the U.S. spends millions to drop bombs on 'brown countries'"
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. I'm not thrilled with the US's hawkish, militaristic, and neoconservative approach to foreign policy either, but let's give some credit where credit is due. In 2003, my country (the USA) provided over 2.5 BILLION dollars just in food aid alone (grants and loans) to the rest of the world. Check here for some official stats if you want. I don't think this includes the many private donors based in the USA that also contribute huge sums of money to humanitarian causes around the globe (Bill & Melinda Gates come to mind).
I haven't done the research, but would a representative of another country like to come forward with some stats that show that their state has given more food aid to the rest of the world than the USA has?
-------------------- "...if the mind is actually part of a continuum, a labyrinth that is connected not only to every other mind that exists or has existed, but to every atom, organism, and region in the vastness of space and time itself, the fact that it is able to occasionally make forays into the labyrinth and have transpersonal experiences no longer seems so strange."
Visit the Psychonautical Society
Edited by Basidiocarp (03/25/05 09:03 PM)
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Dark_Star
train driver pervading a desktop


Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 31,859
Loc: Uranus
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: Basidiocarp]
#3970416 - 03/25/05 09:06 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Each day thousands of Americans rot in prison for living lifestyles that the gov. doesn't agree with, all the while our gov. talks a bunch of shit about our country being free. That's what really pisses me off....America is a fraud.
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Basidiocarp
Dr. BunsenHoneydew


Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 395
Loc: Rogue's Island, USA
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: Dark_Star]
#3970487 - 03/25/05 09:38 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dark_Star said: Each day thousands of Americans rot in prison for living lifestyles that the gov. doesn't agree with, all the while our gov. talks a bunch of shit about our country being free. That's what really pisses me off....America is a fraud.
Hey Dark_Star, what have you done lately to help change the laws that are putting people in jail for reasons that you disagree with? I'm going to assume that you live in the USA, and therefore I'm going to remind you that our country *IS* free. Just because there is legislation in effect that you disagree with does not change that fact. We as citizens are free to change elected officials and to change laws. But you have to get off your finger-pointing, complacent ass and do something if you don't like the way things are going.
America is not a fraud. Citizens that sit around bitching and complaining about what they don't like about the USA while doing NOTHING to change things are the real frauds in this democracy.
-------------------- "...if the mind is actually part of a continuum, a labyrinth that is connected not only to every other mind that exists or has existed, but to every atom, organism, and region in the vastness of space and time itself, the fact that it is able to occasionally make forays into the labyrinth and have transpersonal experiences no longer seems so strange."
Visit the Psychonautical Society
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TODAY
Battletoad


Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: Basidiocarp]
#3971038 - 03/25/05 11:40 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Basidiocarp said: America is not a fraud. Citizens that sit around bitching and complaining about what they don't like about the USA while doing NOTHING to change things are the real frauds in this democracy.
wow. well said, that really makes me think.
--------------------
ca'rouse (k-rouz) intr.v. To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.
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Basidiocarp
Dr. BunsenHoneydew


Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 395
Loc: Rogue's Island, USA
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: TODAY]
#3971097 - 03/26/05 12:04 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
TODAY said: wow. well said, that really makes me think.
Awesome that you're thinking about this stuff... That really is my point in posting all of these arguments: to get people to think. All actions start with thoughts, after all.
-------------------- "...if the mind is actually part of a continuum, a labyrinth that is connected not only to every other mind that exists or has existed, but to every atom, organism, and region in the vastness of space and time itself, the fact that it is able to occasionally make forays into the labyrinth and have transpersonal experiences no longer seems so strange."
Visit the Psychonautical Society
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TODAY
Battletoad


Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: Basidiocarp]
#3971438 - 03/26/05 02:18 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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very true
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ca'rouse (k-rouz) intr.v. To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.
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theocean06
Yeah, I've donefour already...

Registered: 07/10/04
Posts: 1,458
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: Basidiocarp]
#3974644 - 03/26/05 11:04 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yes but think about the thousand and thousands (NORML comes to mind) that do protest and try to make changes, what have their efforts accomplished? Pretty much nothing in terms of drug legislation. The majority of the US does not want pot legalized (and certainly not other drugs), and in a democracy, majority rules. I agree 100% that people should get into activism and fight for what they believe in, but it certainly isn't as easy as saying "if people would get off their ass and do something, the drug laws would change."
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The story of life is quicker then the blink of an eye, the story of love is hello, goodbye. - Hendrix
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Locus



Registered: 03/11/04
Posts: 6,112
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: theocean06]
#3974818 - 03/27/05 12:05 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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The thousands and thousands that do protest, including NORML, and everyone that continues to do so will help in the long run though. If there weren't any protestors nothing would ever change. But yeah you're right, it isn't as easy as saying go protest and things will change. It takes a lot of hard work and effort from a lot of people over a long period of time.
--------------------
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity. ~ Albert Einstein "Fear is the great barrier to human growth." ~ Dr. Robert Monroe ~~~*Dosis sola facit venenum*~~~ *Check my profile to listen to my music*
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derx
who run it


Registered: 05/29/03
Posts: 2,459
Loc: dx/dt
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: Locus]
#3975093 - 03/27/05 02:18 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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it doesn't help that many conservatives cannot think for themselves either. They are easily programmed by the media and misleading studies or just hear say bullshit. The majority of america is not educated and without a true education, a person usually cannot make an intelligent decision. Majority tend to just listen to what a party or person has to say but doesn't check the facts, sources or studies. America is total bullshit at the moment.
"How fortunate for leaders, that the masses do not think" -an intelligent man
-------------------- better living through chemistry OVERGROW the government!! it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.
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Basidiocarp
Dr. BunsenHoneydew


Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 395
Loc: Rogue's Island, USA
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: Locus]
#3976088 - 03/27/05 01:29 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Locus said: The thousands and thousands that do protest, including NORML, and everyone that continues to do so will help in the long run though. If there weren't any protestors nothing would ever change. But yeah you're right, it isn't as easy as saying go protest and things will change. It takes a lot of hard work and effort from a lot of people over a long period of time.
AMEN BRUTHA! Protesting isn't just about gathering together in a crowd and yelling things through a bullhorn... That is just but one part of political activism. Real change is brought about by a combination of active protest and more behind-the-scenes work like grass-roots outreach communication (door to door stuff, blogs, websites, emailings), editorial writings, meetings with elected officials, etc. The key to bringing all of this together is organization, something I think that is lacking in a lot of our socially-progressive activist groups.
-------------------- "...if the mind is actually part of a continuum, a labyrinth that is connected not only to every other mind that exists or has existed, but to every atom, organism, and region in the vastness of space and time itself, the fact that it is able to occasionally make forays into the labyrinth and have transpersonal experiences no longer seems so strange."
Visit the Psychonautical Society
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entheoindole
Seāð Wīdfarend


Registered: 04/04/04
Posts: 595
Loc: Eormensyll, Vīnland
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: lilbilski4life]
#3976401 - 03/27/05 03:11 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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I agree with the consensus in this thread for the most part. I fall in the sometimes category. I'm proud of the American citizenry and our strength to over come obstacles, like 9/11.
Although, I am not proud of our government and it's decision making as of late. Not to mention that we American people have placed Bush back into office. It is unfortunate that a majority of Americans now, support our presidents ignorance. But this is still the greatest nation in the world with the most freedoms.
Of course I don't really agree with the 3 C's of American life. Capitalism, commercialism, & consumerism. The corporate ranks of America have more rights than the individual. This is most distressing to me. I wish there was another way to support a free society. Unfortunately this is the only way right now. I hope one day people will be truly free. Without attaching all these material things to the ideology of freedom! Without individuals having to slave for corporations and business. Without mass media brainwashing. Without invasive laws which takes an individuals right to choose for him/her self what he/she ingests. Without the fear of freethinking and open mindedness. Without, without, without....
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: derx]
#3989532 - 03/30/05 09:35 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
derx said: it doesn't help that many conservatives cannot think for themselves either.
For every conservative I can say that about, I can point to some tree-hugger at my school and say the same thing about them.
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ShOoOg
Stranger
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 15
Loc: az
Last seen: 17 years, 11 months
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: lilbilski4life]
#3993032 - 03/30/05 11:15 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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I am embarrassed by our administration. Bankrupt schools, drilling for oil in Alaska, roadways being built through sacred lands, anti-gay, corporate loving, religious right, murder for oil, war mongers, civil liberty violators, complete inarticulate uncharasmatic, lying president. I am sad for our country. When I think that appx. half of the voting population voted for this it depresses me, poor mo fo's. i think they need to take a trip w/ some mushrooms and open new doors.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: ShOoOg]
#3993349 - 03/31/05 12:28 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
When I think that appx. half of the voting population voted for this it depresses me, poor mo fo's.
In the president's defense, though, the competition sucked.
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Basidiocarp
Dr. BunsenHoneydew


Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 395
Loc: Rogue's Island, USA
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: Silversoul]
#3993431 - 03/31/05 12:51 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said: In the president's defense, though, the competition sucked.
And that's the best defense you can muster for Dubbyah? He's OK because his competition sucked? That speaks volumes against him and his administration in and of itself.
-------------------- "...if the mind is actually part of a continuum, a labyrinth that is connected not only to every other mind that exists or has existed, but to every atom, organism, and region in the vastness of space and time itself, the fact that it is able to occasionally make forays into the labyrinth and have transpersonal experiences no longer seems so strange."
Visit the Psychonautical Society
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: Basidiocarp]
#3997061 - 03/31/05 06:49 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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I never said he's ok. Just that the voters didn't have much to choose from.
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Vvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: lilbilski4life]
#3997630 - 03/31/05 08:45 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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not really.
I find it hard to be proud of something that I did not accomplish myself. Just because my parents fucked in America doesnt give me a reason to pat myself on the back...
I can think of 20 different places I'd rather be from...
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Vertigo6911
Entheobotanist



Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 1,834
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: Vvellum]
#3998487 - 04/01/05 01:26 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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id have to agree with faslimy. 39 of the american presidents can be traced back all the way to charlamange. your founding fathers were royals. meny of them were also freemasons. if u realy want to know what the founders were thingking u might want to take a good look at the layout of washington DC. corruption and backdoor 'divide and concour' politics are nothing new. America was founded on it.
now this is not to say that the peaple themselves were not capable of breathing life into this idea of liberty etc. the american dream is alive and surely something to be proud of but i can assure u this is not what your founders had in mind...
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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Basidiocarp
Dr. BunsenHoneydew


Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 395
Loc: Rogue's Island, USA
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: Vertigo6911]
#3998585 - 04/01/05 02:21 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Oh you really wanted to get me fired up, eh?
Quote:
Vertigo6911 said: 39 of the american presidents can be traced back all the way to charlamange.
Can you tell me what the blood lineage of 39 of our presidents has to to with the argument at hand? Unlike monarchies that perhaps you are more familiar with, we actually hold ELECTIONS that make such concepts as primogeniture and blood lineage MOOT. If your own European royals had been a tad bit less INCESTUOUS, haemophilia might not even be a recognized disease (check any pedigree relating Queen Victoria to the royal houses of Russia and beyond). Point is, blood lineage is just that: lineage. It does not determine political policy. Get a clue.
Quote:
your founding fathers were royals. meny of them were also freemasons.
What's your point? Regardless of lineage, some members of the colonies opted to fight for independence, others opted to stick with the established British rule. You will not find any direct corellation between "royal" lineage and who was a "tory" and who decided to fight for independence. And freemasonry: again, what the hell is your point? Mozart was a Mason, my best friend's dad is a mason, none of this has to do with being "royal," and has nothing to do with the American Revolution.
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If u realy want to know what the founders were thingking u might want to take a good look at the layout of washington DC. corruption and backdoor 'divide and concour' politics are nothing new. America was founded on it.
Please. Enlighten me, oh great scholar of American history. What, exactly, does the layout of D.C. have to do with what the Founding Fathers were thinking? You might want to check the chronology of American history and our capitols before you answer, lest you make more of an ass of yourself than you already have. I suppose that you think that the formal outlining of a representative democracy, with robust ideas such as Separation of Powers, and the built-in ability to make ammendments to make way for future change, were simple by-products of some other grand nefarious plan? The Constitution of the United States of America was just a smokescreen, eh? I dare you to say it, if you have the courage.
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now this is not to say that the peaple themselves were not capable of breathing life into this idea of liberty etc. the american dream is alive and surely something to be proud of but i can assure u this is not what your founders had in mind...
Oh really, well thanks. Where exactly did our Founding Fathers' lofty ideas and ideals of liberty come from? It most certainly did not come from the oppressive, classist, and incestuous monarchies of Europe.
I will defend to the death what our Founding Fathers stood for. Has America strayed far from those ideals? Yes. But in doing so, it has simply regressed and become atavistic in a sense, mimicing the oppressive colonial regimes of your old Europe.
If you want to debate current American policy, then so be it. But do NOT attack the foundations and ideals upon which my country was built.
-------------------- "...if the mind is actually part of a continuum, a labyrinth that is connected not only to every other mind that exists or has existed, but to every atom, organism, and region in the vastness of space and time itself, the fact that it is able to occasionally make forays into the labyrinth and have transpersonal experiences no longer seems so strange."
Visit the Psychonautical Society
Edited by Basidiocarp (04/01/05 02:41 AM)
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Vertigo6911
Entheobotanist



Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 1,834
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: lilbilski4life]
#3998628 - 04/01/05 02:52 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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that layout was designed on order of one of those dudes wasnt it? bout the same time the dollar was designed...
and im not attaching any ideals. im proposing that it was the peaple who made the american dream into waht it is today. and that the founders merely ceated it as a false promise to keep them buisy as politicians do...
the fact is that george washington had already made an oath to serves others, at the penealty of gruesome death, before he became president.
also im trying to pose the idea that if 39 of em come from 1 family and bush gets a second term then maybe its time to realise that your voting system is a farce. 2004 was the first time in history that the candidate with the lesser ammount of royal genes was not made president. for some reason kerry didnt cut it...
oh and one more thing, this topic is about usa so thats what i comment on. i have the same misguivings about every other country, including my own, excluding iran.
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: Vertigo6911]
#4000929 - 04/01/05 02:22 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Vertigo6911 said: id have to agree with faslimy. 39 of the american presidents can be traced back all the way to charlamange.
One of my ancestors was a Holy Roman Emperor, too. In fact, when you go back that far, I think you'll find a sizeable portion of the people you meet can be traced back to royal blood as well.
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your founding fathers were royals.
No, they declared their independence from the royals.
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meny of them were also freemasons.
Yes, and they promoted the freemason values of liberty, republicanism, and limited government.
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if u realy want to know what the founders were thingking u might want to take a good look at the layout of washington DC. corruption and backdoor 'divide and concour' politics are nothing new.
I take it by that you mean the layout of D.C. has some sort of freemason connotation. Big fucking woop! So a bunch of our founding fathers were freemasons and created a government emphasizing freemason values(which are much more noble than you conspiracy nuts give them credit for).
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America was founded on it.
America was founded on the ideas of limited government, representative democracy, and individual freedom.
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now this is not to say that the peaple themselves were not capable of breathing life into this idea of liberty etc. the american dream is alive and surely something to be proud of but i can assure u this is not what your founders had in mind...
Actually, that is exactly what the founders had in mind. Not only that--it's actually what the freemasons had in mind.
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Basidiocarp
Dr. BunsenHoneydew


Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 395
Loc: Rogue's Island, USA
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: Vertigo6911]
#4001511 - 04/01/05 04:27 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Vertigo, I think that your wing-nut conspiracy/royalty/Freemason theories have been thoroughly trounced by Paradigm and myself. If I get any deeper into this I'm going to end up lashing out with some good old fashioned ad hominem attacks, which would hold just about as much validity as your whacky arguments. C ya later.
-------------------- "...if the mind is actually part of a continuum, a labyrinth that is connected not only to every other mind that exists or has existed, but to every atom, organism, and region in the vastness of space and time itself, the fact that it is able to occasionally make forays into the labyrinth and have transpersonal experiences no longer seems so strange."
Visit the Psychonautical Society
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Vertigo6911
Entheobotanist



Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 1,834
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: Basidiocarp]
#4003670 - 04/02/05 02:05 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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"One of my ancestors was a Holy Roman Emperor, too. In fact, when you go back that far, I think you'll find a sizeable portion of the people you meet can be traced back to royal blood as well."
what?! dude how meny peaple in your country? and u pose that 39 presidents turning out to be of 1 family is a coincidense? i dont see how its possible. especialy given the background of the original colonists...
"Yes, and they promoted the freemason values of liberty, republicanism, and limited government."
sorry dude, the masons are into fashism. pm me a mail adress and ill send u some proof.
"i take it by that you mean the layout of D.C. has some sort of freemason connotation. Big fucking woop! So a bunch of our founding fathers were freemasons and created a government emphasizing freemason values(which are much more noble than you conspiracy nuts give them credit for)."
there is not a god damn thing nobel about the freemasons.
again send me an addy and ill show you.
now heres DC:

2 distorted and inverted (satanic) pentagrams. 2 hexagrams 2 solstice lines 2 equinox lines 1 metatron's cube 1 masonic symbol
and a horned owl sitting in the yard of the capitol... in case u didnt know the horned owl is a masonic symbol for 'Molock'. a mythilogical figure that was amoung those who inspired the christian satan.
all of this designed and chosen out of a bunch of designs without any occultism in a time when whitches were burnt at the stake for alleged wichcraft...
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: Vertigo6911]
#4003889 - 04/02/05 04:32 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Vertigo6911 said: "One of my ancestors was a Holy Roman Emperor, too. In fact, when you go back that far, I think you'll find a sizeable portion of the people you meet can be traced back to royal blood as well."
what?! dude how meny peaple in your country? and u pose that 39 presidents turning out to be of 1 family is a coincidense? i dont see how its possible. especialy given the background of the original colonists...
Genetics obviously isn't your strong suit.
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"Yes, and they promoted the freemason values of liberty, republicanism, and limited government."
sorry dude, the masons are into fashism. pm me a mail adress and ill send u some proof.
I have a PM box just like any other Shroomery member. But please don't waste my time with this stupid Illuminati bullshit. My grandfather was a freemason. High up there, too: Knights Templar. From what I know of him, he was certainly not a fascist.
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"i take it by that you mean the layout of D.C. has some sort of freemason connotation. Big fucking woop! So a bunch of our founding fathers were freemasons and created a government emphasizing freemason values(which are much more noble than you conspiracy nuts give them credit for)."
there is not a god damn thing nobel about the freemasons.
again send me an addy and ill show you.
Again, I have a PM box. Anything you want to send me, you can send it there. Or better yet, post it here so everyone else can see this bullshit.
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now heres DC:

2 distorted and inverted (satanic) pentagrams. 2 hexagrams 2 solstice lines 2 equinox lines 1 metatron's cube 1 masonic symbol
Don't care Don't care Don't care
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and a horned owl sitting in the yard of the capitol... in case u didnt know the horned owl is a masonic symbol for 'Molock'. a mythilogical figure that was amoung those who inspired the christian satan.
Christians consider any non-Christian deity to be satanic. No news there.
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all of this designed and chosen out of a bunch of designs without any occultism in a time when whitches were burnt at the stake for alleged wichcraft...
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Vertigo6911
Entheobotanist



Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 1,834
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: lilbilski4life]
#4003903 - 04/02/05 04:41 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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ok... believe what u want to... but consider the source...
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: Vertigo6911]
#4003918 - 04/02/05 04:51 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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In other words, you're unwilling to back up your claims publicly.
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Vertigo6911
Entheobotanist



Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 1,834
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: Silversoul]
#4004058 - 04/02/05 06:23 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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no i just dont have the patience to argue with someone whose selfimage is dependant on his beliefs.
if u were to accept what i say then your idea of who u are as an american will be threathened and ure beliefs will override your thinking process...
dont get me wrong im not trying to diss any1 here, thats just the way things work...
i have a book that explains it better... i also still have that book on freemasonry... both are .pdf format so if u want ill send em over, will need an addy though...
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: Vertigo6911]
#4004436 - 04/02/05 10:20 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Vertigo6911 said: no i just dont have the patience to argue with someone whose selfimage is dependant on his beliefs.
if u were to accept what i say then your idea of who u are as an american will be threathened and ure beliefs will override your thinking process...
dont get me wrong im not trying to diss any1 here, thats just the way things work...
What a steaming pile of bullshit. That's the biggest cop-out since the one that got OJ acquitted.
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i have a book that explains it better... i also still have that book on freemasonry... both are .pdf format so if u want ill send em over, will need an addy though...
How about you first give a quick summary for everyone. My time is valuable to me, and I don't want to waste it on reading a whole book by some paranoid lunatic full of half-truths and distortions.
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Vertigo6911
Entheobotanist



Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 1,834
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: lilbilski4life]
#4008078 - 04/03/05 09:51 AM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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call it what u want.
the book i am refering to is the 'Freemasons bluebook' a textbook given out to members of the 'blue lodge'
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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Gumby
Fishnologist


Registered: 06/13/01
Posts: 26,656
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Re: are u proud to be a American citizen? [Re: Vertigo6911]
#4010047 - 04/03/05 08:19 PM (18 years, 9 months ago) |
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Alright, this post is leading to a flame war. So I'm going to lock it.
As far as who won whatever argument was going on here: all my votes go towards the people who can spell correctly and form relevant points in this argument. Review this post. Winner should be fairly apparent. The spelling of "many" isn't a tough one.
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