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OfflineGomp
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One do not find truth.
    #3943885 - 03/20/05 02:07 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"The Heart need not conduct any medical study of our body, to work perfect with the rest of your organs..."
-Unknown :P


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: One do not find truth. [Re: Gomp]
    #3943890 - 03/20/05 02:09 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Exactly  :thumbup:


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: One do not find truth. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3944768 - 03/20/05 05:24 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

almost like they grew up together.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: One do not find truth. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3944848 - 03/20/05 05:39 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

and from the same stuff! :smile:


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: One do not find truth. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3944969 - 03/20/05 06:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
almost like they grew up together.




organs?


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlineergot
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Re: One do not find truth. [Re: Gomp]
    #3945135 - 03/20/05 06:33 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
"The Heart need not conduct any medical study of our body, to work perfect with the rest of your organs..."
-Unknown :P




Well, then I hope you never go to a hospital when you have heart disease or a heart attack! And, I would hope you preach this sort of "ignorance is bliss" propaganda to all those have that been treated thanks to medical studies.

I mean, seriously... I presume you are are stretching this quote to all those seeking "truth" within existence... all those people should just drop their search and accept it as a perfectly working whole, eh? Well, then... stop using your remote control, your toilet, your fridge, your tool-built shelter, your mass-manufactured clothing, your oven, your microwave, your car and everything else produced thanks to rational inquiry.


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"Remain a learner, never become a knower." - Osho


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: One do not find truth. [Re: ergot]
    #3945215 - 03/20/05 06:48 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Making practical tools that make life easier is one thing, sitting in a dark room thinking about which religions are right and which are wrong is another thing.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlineergot
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Re: One do not find truth. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3945293 - 03/20/05 07:04 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Making practical tools that make life easier is one thing, sitting in a dark room thinking about which religions are right and which are wrong is another thing.




Yes, what's your point? I mean, experiential philosophies such as Taoism or Buddhism are obviously not wrong; their "truths" can be verified (detaching ourselves from our ego removes suffering, oneness of existence). And, obviously, all the other religions are complete bullshit. However, we can still search for truth... searching for truth does not include debating which religion is "true"--in fact, one should discard all theologies in the quest for knowledge...


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"Remain a learner, never become a knower." - Osho


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: One do not find truth. [Re: ergot]
    #3945314 - 03/20/05 07:08 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

How can you find truth if you limit yourself like that? This is obviously this, that is obviously that. Nothing is obvious.
How do you know that other religions are not true? How can you verify the existence of god or some tribal ghost, or the divinity of some stone a few people worship?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineGomp
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Re: One do not find truth. [Re: ergot]
    #3945400 - 03/20/05 07:25 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ergot said:
Quote:

Gomp said:
"The Heart need not conduct any medical study of our body, to work perfect with the rest of your organs..."
-Unknown :P




Well, then I hope you never go to a hospital when you have heart disease or a heart attack! And, I would hope you preach this sort of "ignorance is bliss" propaganda to all those have that been treated thanks to medical studies.

I mean, seriously... I presume you are are stretching this quote to all those seeking "truth" within existence... all those people should just drop their search and accept it as a perfectly working whole, eh? Well, then... stop using your remote control, your toilet, your fridge, your tool-built shelter, your mass-manufactured clothing, your oven, your microwave, your car and everything else produced thanks to rational inquiry.




if i had a heart disease or a heart attack the heart would not function perfectly with the other organs, thus i would do what ever it would take, to make it work in Harmonie again. (including going to hospital as I have been treated thanks to medical studies, many many times.. (I'm a carpenter and even managed to shot myself in the back whit a nail gun once, going up a ladder, being stupid not unplugging the air) :wink: )

This is no more "ignorance is bliss" propaganda, than you make it, be..  :heart:

""all those people should just drop their search and accept it as a perfectly working whole, eh?""

why 'just drop their search', if it is, as a perfectly working whole, eh?  :grin: :thumbup:
:heart:



..do not stop using your remote control, your toilet, your fridge, your tool-built shelter, your mass-manufactured clothing, your oven, your microwave, your car and everything else produced thanks to rational inquiry. Using, doing, making, .. it is all express the wonder of life. being life, in truth, expressing it.. ..of ones own unique and personal view. why seek truth, when truth could be what is seeking it? :smile:

Quote:

"The Heart need not conduct any medical study of our body, to work perfect with the rest of your organs..."
-Unknown :P




maybe i should state that this is a metaphor and the heart, could be seen as You, i could see if i could rewrite it using an other metaphor stating in the same intentions..

"The heart, need not know it is a heart, to do what a heart is supposed to do and are doing at its best."
-Unknown :P

perfectly being perfect.  :sun:


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Offlineergot
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Re: One do not find truth. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3946085 - 03/20/05 09:51 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
How can you find truth if you limit yourself like that? This is obviously this, that is obviously that. Nothing is obvious.
How do you know that other religions are not true? How can you verify the existence of god or some tribal ghost, or the divinity of some stone a few people worship?




How do I know there isn't an immaterial fairy in my back pocket? I only rely on falsifiable statements to build my worldview...


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"Remain a learner, never become a knower." - Osho


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: One do not find truth. [Re: ergot]
    #3946124 - 03/20/05 09:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

You have little choice than to act on what is reasonably certain,yes, but you can never know if there is a fairy there or not. They only way to even touch a piece of truth is to consider everything, even things that sound silly to you.
Perhapse those things that you find funny now are to be considered truth later. Wouldn't it be funny to a 17th century man to hear that we have walked on moon?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Edited by OldWoodSpecter (03/20/05 10:01 PM)


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: One do not find truth. [Re: Gomp]
    #3946915 - 03/21/05 12:55 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Artificial hearts don't run medical studies either.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineGomp
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Re: One do not find truth. [Re: Phluck]
    #3947796 - 03/21/05 09:11 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"The heart, need not know it is a heart, to do what a heart is supposed to do and are doing at its best."
-Unknown :P


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Offlinebobbyrox
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Re: One do not find truth. [Re: Gomp]
    #3947954 - 03/21/05 10:12 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

HEy Bro, i've got to give you some advice:

For a while now I've been obseving, analyzing, and infering religion, how religious people act and how they address others who are not religious.

I came to the realization that all religions are founded on faith

At first sight one might be astounded at such an obvious fact, but what many forget to realize is that the implications which arise from this fact are many and very profound.

Since religion is based on fatih this means that it's truth (that it conveys) can only be understood through faith. This in turn means that one cannot understand religion through reason, since reason is contrary to faith. Therefore whatever belief/"truth" that religious people try to convey, is all based on faith and in turn can only be understood through this.

IF one were to ask any religous person how they came to believe and "feel" apart of their "God(s)" they will most certainly tell you that it came about through a mystical experience that they had, which for them acted as a discovery in realizing that this religion is true and that they must follow it in order to gain happiness. This mystical experience acts as the NECESSARY AND ONLY process from which faith must result.

This mystical experience is what I identify as being the initiation and prerequisite to all relious understanding. Since faith is gained only thorugh the process of a mystical experience, this means that one must go through a mystical experience in order to understand all religous "TRUTHS". Therefore religion can only be tought to those who already have gone through this mystical experience and have gained faith.

Teaching religion is only appropriate when it is directed toward those who already have faith. It doesn't apply to non-believers because these people expect everything that's being taught to be based on reason, as everything else is in the world, and of course because people who don't believe don't have faith; they haven't gone through a mystical experience.

Therefore when non-believers are faced with religion THEY SHOULDN'T BE EXPECTED TO BELIEVE.

ALL RELIGOUS TEACHINGS PRESUPPOSE THAT THOSE WHO ARE BEING TAUGHT HAVE FAITH.

THE PROCESS FOR GAINING FAITH, UNFORTUNATELY, OCCURS SPONTANEOUSLY.

I hate it when people say u'll go to hell if you don't believe in god. THIS ID SOOOOOO STUPID. This is because these people who say this are precisely those who have faith, and have forgotten that faith is a necessary prerequisite to all religious understanding.
So when they tell me I should believe in God i just become SO REPULSED BY THEIR PROFOUNDLY FUCKED UP IGNORANT MINDS.

Why should I believe in God?

Pascals wager: HE COULD BE ALIVE!

WHat bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why should I believe in something that can't be proven rationally but can only be understood through faith, which solely occurs through the means of SPONTENEITY!!!!!!!!

Ok so lets say that he could be real. This is what some come to think. They believe that just because alot of people believe in GOD, GOD might in fact be real. OH NO!! I'm SCARED.

THIS IS THE BIGGEST HYPOCRACY AND DENIAL OF LIFE (DEATH> MURDER) THAT ANYONE HAS EVER COMMITED.

This is because to believe in GOD based on a majority consesus is like believing that since many people believe money makes you happy you will believe this also. THIs is what religous people maintain: we all believe in "money" you must aswell if you ever want to be happy.
No one believes this, intellectuals at least. Obviously when people tell you that only money makes you happy, you start to think rationally (the "TRUE" means of understanding) and begin infering, based on ur own capabilities, and conclude that money satisfies temporary physical desires, which in the end isn't real happiness because true happiness is characterized as being eternal, since such a thing truely exists (read DESCARTES FOR A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF ETERNITY=EXISTENCE. Therefore reason makes one REALIZE THE TRUTH.

Ok so if one were to do the same for relgious truth, one would begin to realize that there is no rational connection between God and his existence, for if there was it would have been an established truth long ago, and that therefore what ever God says must be false.

So, through other means, other than reason, for understanding Religous truth must either be FAITH or IRRATIONALITY. Fear begets irrationality.

People fear that God might exist (which is IRRATIONAL) therefore they come to believe in him.

These people are the zombies of the world, they have denied life (they have denied the means for understanding anything true which then results in an illusionary life)and are like the dead walking the earth, creating problems and destroying everything in their path.


WE MUST AWAKE>COME BACK TO LIFE, and realize the significance of using reason in life.

RELIGION IS JUST THE PRODUCT OF SPONTENEITY. And it's followers are mostly zombhies. They have denied the means of creating life and bringing "TRUE" happiness to this world.

FAITH BEGETS CONFLICT/PROBLEMS/DESTRUCTION BECAUSE IT IS SUBJECTIVE AND THEREFORE IRRELEVANT TO ANYONE WHO DOES NOT SHARE IT.

SPONTENEITY>FAITH>RELIGION>RELIGIOUS TRUTH>BULLSHIT>PROBLEMS

**********************************************
______________________________________________

If anyone agrees ar wich to refute me, they can doe so, but for those who are with me can email me at mike_machado@hotmail.com,


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OfflineGomp
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Re: One do not find truth. [Re: bobbyrox]
    #3948075 - 03/21/05 10:56 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

one does not need to believe in self, one does not need to believe in others.. believe in a lie, and it will set rot.. be believe it or not, Truth acts. this is just representing my mental twist on reality through words..

Shine on Brother!

:heartpump:  :sun:  :heartpump:


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: One do not find truth. [Re: bobbyrox]
    #3948195 - 03/21/05 11:47 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

If believing in god does not make sense to you you should not burden your mind with it. Thos to whom it does make sense, have the freedom to believe. Things don't makes sense on their own, they make sense or not to individual humans.

Religions are based on faith, yes, so what? If they are wrong, then these people will have a lot of nonsense in their memory, if not, good for them.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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