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OfflineLearyfan
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Rice: U.S. Can't Wait Forever for N.Korean Talks
    #3943700 - 03/20/05 01:05 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Haha. What are we going to do about it? We won't do anything, that's what.

Quote:

Yahoo! News

Rice: U.S. Can't Wait Forever for N.Korean Talks
By Saul Hudson and Jack Kim

BEIJING/SEOUL (Reuters) - Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice (news - web sites) said Sunday the United States would not allow a stalemate over North Korea (news - web sites)'s refusal to return to nuclear arms negotiations to go on forever.

With U.S. impatience rising over the six-party negotiations, Rice has begun to lay the groundwork with her Asian partners for how to deal with North Korea if it stays away, a senior State Department official said.

While the official would not specify what moves were under consideration, hard-liners in the Bush administration want to call the talks off and report North Korea to the United Nations (news - web sites) for possible sanctions.

Rice, who met Chinese leaders after consulting with the governments of Japan and South Korea (news - web sites), also prodded Beijing, North Korea's biggest benefactor, to use more of its leverage to get Pyongyang back to the talks, which have been on hold since June.

"It is true that we need to resolve this issue," Rice said at a news conference in Seoul after talks with South Korean leaders before flying to Beijing. "It cannot go on forever."

North Korea admitted publicly for the first time last month it had built a nuclear bomb.

"The (South Korean) foreign minister and I did talk about intensifying our efforts, all of us, including hopefully the Chinese, because we do need to address the problem," she said.

On a trip intended to help jump-start negotiations on scrapping North Korea's nuclear programs, the top U.S. diplomat has made moves designed to coax the reclusive state back to talks, which also involve Russia, U.S. officials say.

Now it is up to Washington's Asian partners -- and particularly China -- to make that happen, they say.

In Beijing, Rice told Chinese officials she hoped they could do more to bring Pyongyang back to the table but they responded that the United States needed to be "flexible" in the talks to help them succeed, the U.S. official said.

Rice said the United States would show North Korea respect and recognized its sovereignty.

She also reminded the reclusive state of a U.S. proposal of economic aid and security carrots and that direct contacts between U.S. and North Korean officials were possible at the six-way talks.

"The six-party talks are the place that they can actually get the respect that they have desired, and that they can get the assistance that they need," Rice said of the North Koreans.

After pressure from China to tone down her rhetoric against North Korea, Rice has also refrained from tough language that had previously provoked Pyongyang.

NEXT STEPS

The United States also consulted with Japan and South Korea over what to do if Rice's overtures and the Asian nations' pressure failed.

"Among various countries that we are talking to (there is) an understanding that this can't go on forever," the senior U.S. official, who asked not to be named, told reporters. "(There is) the beginning of a consideration of other diplomatic steps we might want to take if the North Koreans don't come back."



U.S. hard-liners hoped Rice would use her first trip to Asia as secretary of state to make a show of trying to save the talks so there would be little resistance for ending them should Pyongyang not respond, another U.S. official said.

The United States -- mainly at South Korea's prodding -- proposed a package last year that included guarantees it would not attack North Korea and energy aid from the other partners if Pyongyang gave up its nuclear programs.








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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Rice: U.S. Can't Wait Forever for N.Korean Talks [Re: Learyfan]
    #3943751 - 03/20/05 01:28 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

what about electricity as a CARROT in n. Korea talks?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Rice: U.S. Can't Wait Forever for N.Korean Talks [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3943775 - 03/20/05 01:35 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Huh?





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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Rice: U.S. Can't Wait Forever for N.Korean Talks [Re: Learyfan]
    #3943800 - 03/20/05 01:43 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Electricity Is Carrot in North Korea Talks
Las Vegas Sun ^ | March 15, 2005 | BURT HERMAN ASSOCIATED PRESS




SEOUL, South Korea (AP) - Nighttime spy satellite photos illustrate the stark contrast between the two Koreas: The capitalist South is aglow with shimmering constellations of light, while the North disappears into blackness as deep as the aura of secrecy surrounding the communist nation.

That's now changing for a small corner of the North. On Wednesday, for the first time since the Koreas were divided, the South began piping electricity into North Korea for a joint economic zone meant to foster cooperation between the countries sharing the world's most heavily fortified border.

Seoul's help comes as Pyongyang defies the world by proclaiming it has nuclear weapons and shunning disarmament talks - and it illustrates the differences in the carrots and sticks approach the international community is using to lure the North back to the negotiating table. Coming up with a coordinated strategy on North Korea is expected to be a focus of U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's visit to northeast Asia this week.

So far, the other countries in the nuclear talks - China, Japan, Russia, South Korea and the United States - are running in different directions on relations with the North, which proclaimed Feb. 10 that it had nuclear weapons and would boycott the nuclear negotiations.

China has the most potential influence as a key energy supplier to North Korea, but has refused to turn off its pipelines to push the North. China has been the only country to send an envoy to North Korea since Feb. 10 but failed to win a breakthrough, with North Korean leader Kim Jong Il saying his country would return to the talks only if the United States shows "trustworthy sincerity."

Japan enacted laws this month barring most North Korean ships from its ports, and has seized on the issue of the North's abductions of Japanese citizens in the 1970s and '80s. Some Japanese politicians have called for cutting off exports like melons or cosmetics to the North. But Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi has resisted such moves over fears they would only make the situation worse, and the North has said sanctions would amount to a declaration of war.


Russia has called for the North to return to the talks and for the interests of all sides to be taken into account, suggesting it supports a softer line with the North. But Moscow has lost the leverage it held as the Soviet Union, when it was Pyongyang's key benefactor.

South Korea is continuing aid and moving forward on cooperative projects, like turning on the power for the Kaesong economic zone just north of the border. Seoul hasn't decided on a request by the North for 500,000 tons of fertilizer, but most expect it to go ahead with the delivery.

Washington insists the North won't get any concessions until it gives up nuclear weapons.

Rice said Tuesday she won't let North Korea play the United States and its allies against one another, saying the six-party talks are "the best and more reliable way to deal with the North Korea program because it has all of the important neighbors at the table."

"What the North Koreans would like is to get into a bilateral discussion with the United States so that one by one they can cut separate deals on this issue - and we're not going to allow them to do it," Rice told reporters en route to Asia.

North Korea announced last month that it has already built at least one nuclear weapon. The CIA has estimated that with a highly enriched uranium weapons program and the use of high-speed centrifuges, North Korea could be making more. Some weapons analysts and observers have put the estimate at six to eight.

The Bush administration has backed off from calling for regime change in Pyongyang, instead saying it hopes for "regime transformation" caused by gradual changes in the North. North Korea has introduced elements of capitalism in recent years, and outside influences are creeping in through smuggled South Korean videos and mobile phones that can make international calls.

But in a move sure to be watched in Pyongyang, the Bush administration recently nominated one of the North's most outspoken critics, John Bolton, as its ambassador to the United Nations. North Korea labeled Bolton "human scum" and refused to accept him as a negotiator at the nuclear talks that began in 2003.


Bolton's naming raises the specter for the North that he might press for U.N. Security Council sanctions against it, said Peter Beck, director of the North East Asia Project for the International Crisis Group.

"Certainly that appointment gives the (Bush) administration more of a hard-line image," Beck said. "That doesn't exactly signal to the North that you're taking into consideration their preferences, not that they should."

However, it's too soon for Washington to take the sanctions route, said Choi Jin-wook, a senior research fellow at the government-affiliated Korean Institute for National Unification. He said that if there are no breakthroughs, steps toward sanctions might be taken in 2006.

The South views the North's nuclear weapons declaration as "bluffing," Choi said. Rice's visit is aimed at getting America's allies to "share the perception of threat," he said.

Rice travels first to Japan and South Korea before heading to China, an itinerary showing she intends to form a common front with the close U.S. allies before trying to convince the Chinese.

"The six-party talks are useless without a harmonious negotiating strategy," Michael Armacost, a former U.S. ambassador to Japan and the Philippines, wrote in South Korea's Joongang Ilbo daily. "The five countries should stand together and use both carrot and stick properly."


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Edited by lonestar2004 (03/20/05 01:44 PM)


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InvisibleCalifornia
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Re: Rice: U.S. Can't Wait Forever for N.Korean Talks [Re: Learyfan]
    #3943838 - 03/20/05 01:54 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Great.
More time for "diplomacy" is also more time for N.K. to build more bombs and better ways to deliver them.
Reclusive paranoid little twats(N.K.) they talk shit like they want to start something, then go back to their quiet-reclusive selves.
You just can't trust peoples like that. They are up to no good.


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Re: Rice: U.S. Can't Wait Forever for N.Korean Talks [Re: California]
    #3943907 - 03/20/05 02:16 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

It's probably not so much that they don't have the electricity to light up their country at night, they just choose not to.
They probably have a large underground network.
They(N.K.) know that the U.S. has many "eyes in the sky" that we would use to help deploy any military action against them.
So instead of providing us with illuminated layouts of their country, they go underground.
Not that that would really help them.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Rice: U.S. Can't Wait Forever for N.Korean Talks [Re: Learyfan]
    #3944202 - 03/20/05 03:45 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I see ample parking globally.


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Re: Rice: U.S. Can't Wait Forever for N.Korean Talks [Re: California]
    #3945423 - 03/20/05 07:29 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Are you trying to suggest that the N.Korean population lives underground at night?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Rice: U.S. Can't Wait Forever for N.Korean Talks [Re: trendal]
    #3945706 - 03/20/05 08:34 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Morlocks


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Re: Rice: U.S. Can't Wait Forever for N.Korean Talks [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3946101 - 03/20/05 09:55 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

C.H.U.D.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Rice: U.S. Can't Wait Forever for N.Korean Talks [Re: California]
    #3948814 - 03/21/05 02:29 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

paranoid little twats(N.K.) they talk shit like they want to start something




Sorry...I thought you were describing Bush and Co. for a minute...


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Re: Rice: U.S. Can't Wait Forever for N.Korean Talks [Re: Rono]
    #3957531 - 03/23/05 02:40 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

No No No, they might be referred to as the paranoid BIG twats that talk shit like they want to start something.
It seems that "something" might possibly be U.N. sanctions.


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Re: Rice: U.S. Can't Wait Forever for N.Korean Talks [Re: Learyfan]
    #3958051 - 03/23/05 07:59 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hard-liners in the Bush administration want to call the talks off and report North Korea to the United Nations (news - web sites) for possible sanctions.




ahhahaa - what a joke. Why bother when the US does not respect the UN anyway? The UN is such a great smokescreen for the US.

Power corrupts I guess and double standards are the standard.

Quote:

Now it is up to Washington's Asian partners -- and particularly China




And why would China care? The US i the nation that is worried - it's up to the US. NK is no threat to China. It's not up to China, it is up to NK, and if they want nukes they have every right to hold them. Why on earth is it that the USadmin goes around preaching the moral highground on nuclear disarmament, yet the US has the greatest nuclear arsenal in the world that gets ever more high tech?

Power corrupts I guess and double standards are the standard.


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Re: Rice: U.S. Can't Wait Forever for N.Korean Talks [Re: CJay]
    #3958359 - 03/23/05 10:47 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I agree with you about the usa preaching about other countries nuclear weapson..when we have the biggest nuclear arsenal in the world and we seam to go after any other counrty that might have them...
I just think North Koreea is a big threat since Kim is in charge..he is a eveil man that does not care about his people he just cares about having the biggest army and starving his people so they can join his army...I dont know what he intentsions are but im sure there not good..I cant belive that he would make a nuc plant for anything other then weapons..something needs to be done about it and talk (or tring to talk to N.K) is not going to work i know war is not at an option at all....
I think Rice has her head in her azz and could not get much done anyways she is nothing but bushes drowne....
I think almost every counrty that hears the us wants to talk to them about nuc weapons thinks we are going to have a war with them...I dont blame them looks at what happens...usa or should I say BUSH wants to be top dog at any price ...


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"Six words: drop out, turn on, then come back and tune it in -and then drop out again, and turn on, and tune it back in-it's a rhythm- most of us think God made this universe in nature-subject object-predicate sentences-turn on, tune in, drop out- period, end of paragraph. Turn the page- it's all a rhythm- it's all a beat. You turn on, you find it inside, and then you have to come back (since you can't stay high all the time) and you have to build a better model. But don't get caught - don't get hooked - don't get attracted by the thing you're building, cause... you gotta drop out again. It's a cycle. Turn on, tune in, drop out. Keep it going, keep it going- the nervous system works that way. gotta keep it flowing- keep it flowing.


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Re: Rice: U.S. Can't Wait Forever for N.Korean Talks [Re: starptv23]
    #3958405 - 03/23/05 11:00 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I just think North Koreea is a big threat since Kim is in charge..he is a eveil man that does not care about his people he just cares about having the biggest army and starving his people so they can join his army...I dont know what he intentsions are but im sure there not good.




Yes I cannot help but agree about Kim and the mistrust his regime engenders. Perhaps Kim does have conquest on the agenda.

As all nations that hold nukes usually espouse about their own arsenals - perhaps it is a deterrent. He knows that the US and the world community do not like his abhorrable regime, therefore he is walling himself in with the largest army he can and the bigest arsenal he can, nuclear or otherwise. I think any nation that feels under threat will do this. Perhaps Kim is just scared.

Either way his regime is now intimidating others as perhaps they originally intimidated him into building up this situation. We are reaching a stlemate....or much much worse.


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Re: Rice: U.S. Can't Wait Forever for N.Korean Talks [Re: CJay]
    #3958645 - 03/23/05 12:14 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

The U.S. has earned a right to "preach" on Nuclear weapons.
We fully developed them, used them in an act of war(considerably an act of peace), and have been through a Cold War because of Nuclear weapons.
The U.S. is in a unique position on this subject.


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Re: Rice: U.S. Can't Wait Forever for N.Korean Talks [Re: California]
    #3958783 - 03/23/05 12:48 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

There was once a woman who took her son to see Ghandi. When they reached the great man and had audience with him she implored of Ghandi:

"Please tell my son to give up eating sweets. They are bad for him, and I want him to give up for his own good. If you tell him he will listen."

Ghandi scratched his chin and thought for a moment, and then he told the woman to bring her son back the next week.

The next week the woman returned with her son and when they had audience with Ghandi the great man simply and politely asked the son to stop eating sweets and to respect his mother.

The mother was bemused, why on Earth had Ghandi made her wait a week to say what he could just as easily have said the week before? She asked the great man.


In reply Ghandi said, "I had to give them up myself first."

Of course the son obeyed Ghandi, he was so filled with respect for the great man.

-------

btw the USA isn't in such a unique position with regard to nukes as you like to make out, nor in the manner you make out, the only unique things about the US is that the US was the first nation to have working nuclear bombs and it is the only nation to have unleashed this kind of weaponary on an enemy.

Nazi Germany was well underway with a nuclear programme in the latter part of WW2, they were developing the capability quite independantly of the US. And in the years since many nations have developed their own arsenals.

The US was by no means the only nation to go through the Cold War, pretty much the entire industrialised world did and countries all over Europe and The USSR were rammed to the back teath with the things. All of the ex soviet nations and all of Europe have that experience under their belt.

The US has not earned anything - the US just has the largest amount of the things and unlike Ghandi relies on fear as opposed to respect when it comes to 'preaching'.


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Re: Rice: U.S. Can't Wait Forever for N.Korean Talks [Re: California]
    #3958790 - 03/23/05 12:49 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

i dont think the usa was the first one but i could be wrong...i think it was russia...and we stold the info like we do with everything else


--------------------
"Six words: drop out, turn on, then come back and tune it in -and then drop out again, and turn on, and tune it back in-it's a rhythm- most of us think God made this universe in nature-subject object-predicate sentences-turn on, tune in, drop out- period, end of paragraph. Turn the page- it's all a rhythm- it's all a beat. You turn on, you find it inside, and then you have to come back (since you can't stay high all the time) and you have to build a better model. But don't get caught - don't get hooked - don't get attracted by the thing you're building, cause... you gotta drop out again. It's a cycle. Turn on, tune in, drop out. Keep it going, keep it going- the nervous system works that way. gotta keep it flowing- keep it flowing.


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Re: Rice: U.S. Can't Wait Forever for N.Korean Talks [Re: starptv23]
    #3958992 - 03/23/05 01:36 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

here is the infor on where the nuc came from and the history

http://www.nuclearfiles.org/hitimeline/index.html


--------------------
"Six words: drop out, turn on, then come back and tune it in -and then drop out again, and turn on, and tune it back in-it's a rhythm- most of us think God made this universe in nature-subject object-predicate sentences-turn on, tune in, drop out- period, end of paragraph. Turn the page- it's all a rhythm- it's all a beat. You turn on, you find it inside, and then you have to come back (since you can't stay high all the time) and you have to build a better model. But don't get caught - don't get hooked - don't get attracted by the thing you're building, cause... you gotta drop out again. It's a cycle. Turn on, tune in, drop out. Keep it going, keep it going- the nervous system works that way. gotta keep it flowing- keep it flowing.


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Re: Rice: U.S. Can't Wait Forever for N.Korean Talks [Re: starptv23]
    #3959027 - 03/23/05 01:42 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I didn't mean to imply that the U.S. was the only country to have been through the Cold War.
It's the combination of being the first country to fully develop and deliver a nuclear bomb in a war and having been through the Cold War that puts the U.S. in its unique position.
While the Ghandi story is nice and all, it is hardly deserving of trying to be paralleled with NUCLEAR weapons.
Candy (obviously)doesn't have the capability of sheer destruction and death as nuclear weapons.

1940's
The United States' Manhattan Project builds and tests the first atomic bombs. The new weapons are used on Hiroshima, then Nagasaki leading to the end of World War II. The beginning of the Cold War follows with the USSR's detonation of a atomic bomb in 1949.
1950's
The Korean War opens this decade that sees the first space travel by human beings, the construction of bomb shelters and the deployment of the first Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles by the United States in 1958.
taken from http://www.nuclearfiles.org/hitimeline/index.html


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