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InvisibleShroomismM
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Should be the law
    #3941725 - 03/19/05 10:52 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

And if harms none.. do as ye will


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Should be the law [Re: Shroomism]
    #3941732 - 03/19/05 10:55 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

At face value I agree...but does harming yourself count?


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Should be the law [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3941816 - 03/19/05 11:20 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

thus it's counterpoint: Love thyself and others


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Should be the law [Re: Shroomism]
    #3941892 - 03/19/05 11:40 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
thus it's counterpoint: Love thyself and others



So, wait a minute...are you saying that harming yourself shouldn't be allowed? I don't like the implications of that, especially where drugs are concerned.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Should be the law [Re: Silversoul]
    #3941927 - 03/19/05 11:50 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

harm yourself if you want.. I just don't think it's recommended
whatchu got against drugs eh?  :evil: :scrambled:


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Invisiblepupil
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Re: Should be the law [Re: Shroomism]
    #3942237 - 03/20/05 01:16 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

hey shroomism,

i read that you were in jail. f#@% the man! welcome home! :wink:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Should be the law [Re: Shroomism]
    #3943531 - 03/20/05 11:55 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

And if harms none.. do as ye will

Even with that as a basis, things would not change much. Driving a gasoline-powered car affects MY AIR, smoking affects MY AIR. My point being that we are so interconnected, that can any act be said to be totally harm-free?

Is harm of plants and animals included?

Seeing as how I have never been in a car accident, may I drive 150 MPH?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Should be the law [Re: Swami]
    #3943735 - 03/20/05 01:22 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Well if such a rule was obeyed, we would stop making cars that polute, and stop smoking around those who mind.

No act is totally harm free at this point in history, but if such a rule was obeyed, we would all try to reduce damage with every new step of progress.

the fact that you never had an accident does not prove you never will. Even if you are a good driver, the accident may not be a result of your mistake. Someone may not see you and just run in front of your car. So you have to take others in to the mix. Like you said, we are all interconnected.
"If it doesn't harm" includes "if it does not harm by the fault of those who are harmed" too. You can't leave a gun on the floor if you have a baby.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Should be the law [Re: Silversoul]
    #3943747 - 03/20/05 01:26 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Harm is relative. If one does not see his own death as harm, then no harm is done.

Harming are actions that you do to someone with the intention of causing them pain, or with other intentions without considering the victims pain.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Should be the law [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3944747 - 03/20/05 05:22 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I think it is the rule already and has been for some time:
Now the perception of harm is the arena of action.

with cognitive liberty (is it defunct?) an attempt to get the eyes of the state farther from the personal hearth and bedrooms of the nation is made.

meantime there is so much duplicity when
it comes to guns.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Should be the law [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3944759 - 03/20/05 05:23 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

the law of no laws.


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Disclaimer!?


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Should be the law [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3944952 - 03/20/05 06:00 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

well yes that is the core of the future of law, that is where we are heading and where we are in a large part now, but that law is only written.

It is sad that as laws change to better protect and give more freedom, the only thing that changes in reality are the words the policemen say to those who they arrest. So in past it was "you are arrested for this" now it is" you are arrested for that" people just keep on doing what they have been doing so far, its just that different people end up in jails at different times.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Should be the law [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3945198 - 03/20/05 06:44 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

No matter what, there would still be no more agreement on what harm is. I believe having more than two children is harmful to the planet; others don't.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
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Re: Should be the law [Re: Swami]
    #3945429 - 03/20/05 07:31 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
No matter what, there would still be no more agreement on what harm is. I believe having more than two children is harmful to the planet; others don't.




What would be the "ideal" number of pets, and what size pets would be best for each person as to be not harmful to the planet....?    I had also had this same "ideal" number of kids as you have stated (2), but I have also seen a few large families in my life that were a lot closer and loving than a lot of other families with fewer children(if one were to generalize and judge)....  I guess perhaps it is not a matter of an expectation of "ideals" to approach an "ideal number" until one actually is ready to have a child and see how you are able to live in happiness, and as not to over whelm you means of support - for the child, and the family....  :heart:

The planet, well, what is it that really harmfull to the planet, children, or adults....?    Yeah, ok, dirty diapers are pretty harmful to everything...!  :lol:


:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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Offlinehobgoblin
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Re: Should be the law [Re: Shroomism]
    #3945463 - 03/20/05 07:39 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
And if harms none.. do as ye will




Would that things were that simple. :sad:

I read about your ordeal, Shroomism. I hope you find a positive outlet for your perfectly justified outrage. 


--------------------
Seek not to rationalize hobgoblins. ~ Yeats


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Should be the law [Re: Shroomism]
    #3945510 - 03/20/05 07:45 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

What if you drink a bottle of vodka and, completely sloshed, drive around and reach your destination without harming anyone? That would fit your law, and therefore they shouldn't be prosecuted.

I do agree though, victimless crimes, such as all drugs, gay marriage and prostitution, should be legalized, but if you put others at unnecessary risk, such as driving around heavily drunk, or cause others distress, like putting a loaded gun to their head, there should possibly be laws to prosecute them.

Is taking money unwillingly from someone harming them? I would say it is, so therefore social security, welfare and government-sponsored programs like Medicaid should all be shut down.

Again, you must draw the line somewhere at what "harming" is, otherwise mostly everything could be considered harmful, or possibly near-nothing at all.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Should be the law [Re: Ravus]
    #3945572 - 03/20/05 07:57 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

drinking and driving could harm, so it is as good as harming


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
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Re: Should be the law [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3946464 - 03/20/05 11:06 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
drinking and driving could harm, so it is as good as harming



.
When I first read this answer, I thought "YEP"....  Then I thunk about it....  It could harm, and even if it were done with positive intentions....  So, how does one make a "correct" decision when an action could harm yourself or another, and is still done with positive intentions....?    HHhhhmmmmm.....
.
Let me give a specific scenario that can be dangerous, but can at the same time be done with positive intentions....    Let's say YOU are shooting off some fireworks for a large group of family and friends in a large backyard....    The positive intentions you may have would be for entertainment purposes, and most likely safety would be very important because there might be children, family, or otherwise partying people running around not neccesarely paying attention - some people you just may not see or be aware of....  Then you have the fireworks themselves that are already kinda~ inherently chaotic and un-predictable in nature....  So, even with the best warnings and safety measures taken before the actual show, any number of people could still actually be harmed by shooting off the fireworks - INCLUDING yourself.... 
.
So, how do you honestly weigh out all of the;  possible risks vs. possible harm vs. safety percautions vs. intentions vs. (?).....?

I didn't even mention the wind, or misfires, or the sparks that could come down HOT and actually burn someone or catch ANYTHING on fire (like a house)....  MANY possibilities could happen to go wrong with a bucket full of fireworks, and once the train is set in motion, there ain't no stoppin it(as far as I know)....    But, there is nothing really wrong with launching fireworks either....    So, how does you make a correct decision as to choice.....?  :heart:


:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Should be the law [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #3954170 - 03/22/05 04:57 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Exactly, when you say, "Well, it COULD have harmed, so it should be considered harmful," you enter quite a gray area. Mostly anything could potentially cause harm, whether it's drinking and driving, shooting off fireworks, practicing with your gun, or just smoking a cigarette around other people. Where do we say what should be legally prosecuted and what should not?

It's clarified a bit more if you say anything that causes unnecessary harm, such as drinking and then driving, which puts people at an unnecessary risk because you are drunk, while if you use precautions when using fireworks or a gun the chances of them causing harm will be low so that no one else is put at unnecessary or excessive potential harm.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Offlineslaphappy
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Re: Should be the law [Re: Ravus]
    #3954294 - 03/22/05 05:25 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

What harm does a little harm do anyway?

Lets try to face reality for a second...

...


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The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.


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