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OfflineLearyfan
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Hell and bringing up kids
    #3934321 - 03/18/05 08:38 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

If you believe in hell, wouldn't it be wrong to bring a child into the world?

Think about it. If you don't bring a kid into the world, the kid's soul has no chance of going to hell. It stays in heaven forever and basks in pure love. Once you bring him into the world, all of the sudden the kid's soul is in a position where it could fuck up in life and have to spend eternity in hell.

If you believe in hell, it's it kind of messed up to put a soul in jeopardy by bringing it to earth? Aren't you really rolling the dice with this kid's soul?





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Offlinezahudulallah
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Re: Hell and bringing up kids [Re: Learyfan]
    #3934326 - 03/18/05 08:39 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

That's why Andrea Yates killed her five children.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Hell and bringing up kids [Re: Learyfan]
    #3934329 - 03/18/05 08:40 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Yet another reason why......


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Offlinestarptv23
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Re: Hell and bringing up kids [Re: Anno]
    #3934408 - 03/18/05 09:00 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

we are in hell now...so why not make it better with kids..after death we all are going to the same place...in our body is one journey..when we die it is the next...


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"Six words: drop out, turn on, then come back and tune it in -and then drop out again, and turn on, and tune it back in-it's a rhythm- most of us think God made this universe in nature-subject object-predicate sentences-turn on, tune in, drop out- period, end of paragraph. Turn the page- it's all a rhythm- it's all a beat. You turn on, you find it inside, and then you have to come back (since you can't stay high all the time) and you have to build a better model. But don't get caught - don't get hooked - don't get attracted by the thing you're building, cause... you gotta drop out again. It's a cycle. Turn on, tune in, drop out. Keep it going, keep it going- the nervous system works that way. gotta keep it flowing- keep it flowing.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Hell and bringing up kids [Re: Learyfan]
    #3934432 - 03/18/05 09:11 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
If you believe in hell, it's it kind of messed up to put a soul in jeopardy by bringing it to earth?  Aren't you really rolling the dice with this kid's soul?




You forget that our soul must be tested, according to God. He needs to know if we have his back when the shots are fired. Personally, I just think God is a little too insecure.  :shocked:


:lol:

"'Tis better to have lived and lost than to have never lived at all." :tongue:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Hell and bringing up kids [Re: starptv23]
    #3934436 - 03/18/05 09:12 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

That soul will come down through someone else since the purpuse of life on earth is learning and gaining wisdom through rediscovery and change of perspective..

You give that child of yours love and wisdom and it wont end up in hell, but could end up back in heaven enriched with experiences.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Hell and bringing up kids [Re: Anno]
    #3934464 - 03/18/05 09:19 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Anno said:
Yet another reason why......




.......yes.................





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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Hell and bringing up kids [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3934484 - 03/18/05 09:25 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
That soul will come down through someone else since the purpuse of life on earth is learning and gaining wisdom through rediscovery and change of perspective.




That Is the purpose of life?  :shocked:

I'm not saying that learning and gaining wisom through ("re"?)discovery and changes in perspective is not a very important concept, but I don't see how it is the "meaning of life". Meaning exists only in the mind as concepts and thoughts and exists independantly from that which we associate the meanings with. Any meaning is merely our projection onto a reality that actually exists within a realm entirely void of meaning.

We imply meaning. Any purpose of our existance is entirely self-defined as we are the only ones who experience that existance - our meanings are only relative to us and our mind. Natural phenomenon exists without meaning. :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Hell and bringing up kids [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3934570 - 03/18/05 09:54 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

oh, i thought that you were talking about bringing up kids BEING hell...





heh, j/k...

~
christianity has 2 streams running thru it (well, at least 2 :wink: )... (& possibly to a lesser extent, judaism & islam?)---

"the world" as inherently evil or flawed (gnostic echoes here) vs. "the world"  as inherently blessed or good (the genesis creation story; christ as an (okay, THE!) example of incarnation, etc.)

~
dr martin luther (no doubt in one of his many informal lectures/sermons/musings, published as "table talks") once said that, if he knew that christ were returning tomorrow, he would plant a tree that day, & do his best to plant a baby (in his wife katherine) that night in bed!
(wie ein lustig mensch, nicht war?)

& thus perhaps one more soul to win for the glory of god, one must assume...
hey, ya can't win the pot if'n ya don't play the game... :wink: ...


now, buddhist & hindu hells may not be ummmm eternal, so the possibility for learning something useful is more apparent...

ymmv...


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Hell and bringing up kids [Re: gnrm23]
    #3934609 - 03/18/05 10:10 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ya can't win the pot if'n ya don't play the game




Isn't it messed up to play the lottery with a soul?





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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Hell and bringing up kids [Re: Learyfan]
    #3934787 - 03/18/05 11:13 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

"life is a crapshoot"
(unknown roman soldier, 2nd century bce)

~
gene shufflin' --- "a zygote is a gamete's way of making more gametes" (attributed to lazarus long)

~
(& i'm glad that i picked the parents i did!)


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Hell and bringing up kids [Re: gnrm23]
    #3934860 - 03/18/05 11:28 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, life is a crap shoot. Why gamble with a soul and bring it into this world where it might earn a one way ticket to hell?






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Offlinezahudulallah
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Re: Hell and bringing up kids [Re: Learyfan]
    #3934926 - 03/18/05 11:47 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

You can take the Gnostic approach too.. bring a child into the world, it will either grow up to discover the beauty of God, or choose ignorance which simply results in the death of consciousness.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Hell and bringing up kids [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3934928 - 03/18/05 11:47 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
That soul will come down through someone else since the purpuse of life on earth is learning and gaining wisdom through rediscovery and change of perspective.




That Is the purpose of life?  :shocked:

I'm not saying that learning and gaining wisom through ("re"?)discovery and changes in perspective is not a very important concept, but I don't see how it is the "meaning of life". Meaning exists only in the mind as concepts and thoughts and exists independantly from that which we associate the meanings with. Any meaning is merely our projection onto a reality that actually exists within a realm entirely void of meaning.

We imply meaning. Any purpose of our existance is entirely self-defined as we are the only ones who experience that existance - our meanings are only relative to us and our mind. Natural phenomenon exists without meaning. :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




aren't we talking about this from a spiritistic-christian perspective?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Hell and bringing up kids [Re: Learyfan]
    #3934962 - 03/18/05 11:57 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

And as if such a laughable scheme isn't clearly absurd enough to incite any consideration from the masses of Christians, that perhaps the Biblical writings are taken with such awful [and threatening] graveness?

Taking the anthology into a higher perspective, one can see the wisdom behind the symbolic, archaic and outdated literature.

But as a higher perspective is usually seen from a higher consciousness...



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Hell and bringing up kids [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3934976 - 03/18/05 12:02 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Well, I'm talking about someone who believes in hell here.

If you believe in hell, why bring a kid here where it might do something to land itself in hell.





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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Hell and bringing up kids [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3934985 - 03/18/05 12:05 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SkorpivoMusterion said:
And as if such a laughable scheme isn't clearly absurd enough to incite any consideration from the masses of Christians, that perhaps the Biblical writings are taken with such awful [and threatening] graveness?

Taking the anthology into a higher perspective, one can see the wisdom behind the symbolic, archaic and outdated literature.

But as a higher perspective is usually seen from a higher consciousness...






Buh?




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Offlinezahudulallah
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Re: Hell and bringing up kids [Re: Learyfan]
    #3935282 - 03/18/05 01:03 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Such people generally try to frighten their children into submitting to their religion. As for people who believe in Hell, they generally believe that scripture cannot be questioned, whilst they also believe in being fruitful and multiplying, many I imagine reason that if God sends them to the eternal damnation of Hell, they evidently deserve it for the endless amount of mystical reasons that fundamentalists attempt to formulate when they conceptualize the thought of a loving and merciful God torturing its creation for its spiritual and philosophical materialism. And furthermore, they believe that God has a plan for everyone.

Andrea Yates murdered her five children because she reasoned that if they died while they were still children, they would all automatically go to Heaven because they wouldn't get the chance to grow up to become sinners.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Hell and bringing up kids [Re: Learyfan]
    #3935326 - 03/18/05 01:13 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

None of what I am to say is of my belief but I was raised Catholic and do they ever believe in eternal damnation to hell and one shot at the purly gates so I have the inside on this. After all, as born and raised Catholic, I was told we are the true Christian religion and the rest of you are going to hell unless you are baptized in our faith.

Your question doesn't make sense based on how they tell the story. Their story goes that all souls were angels in heaven and then Lucifer no longer wanted to serve God but to be a God itself. So he began a rebellion against serving God and took a bunch of souls with him who also wanted to rebel because paradise, peace, freedom from pain and suffering, love, harmony and bliss must've sucked or something.

So, the Catholic all loving, compassionate forgiving jealous insecure neurotic God he is damned and banished them all to hell for walking out on him. The rebels partied it up for a while all playing their own God power tripping on each other and after a while some of them said, "This sucks! There's pain and suffering here. I want to go home!"

So they went to knock on the purly gates and asked to be let back in. God said, "Before I let you in you will have to PROVE your devotion to ME and worship ME only and prove that you can resist the temptations to rebel against ME ever again before I let you back.

According to the story, human life is for giving souls wanting redemption a chance back into heaven.

That said, if you have children you are providing vehicles for more rebel souls to get back into heaven. According to the story, all human souls are rebel souls and came from hell so there's nothing to loose here, only the chance to gain a ticket back home. If you are here you were one of the ones that joined the rebellion, cept for Jesus who was sent from heaven as a reminder of what a good little kiddie is like who does what its told without question of the supreme authority of Daddy dearest.

His own dad told him, "Jesus, if you love me and your naughty in grateful siblings you will go in there and let your ass be crucified so they can be redeemed because they can't seem to figure it out on their own and I want them back because the numbers arn't crunching here and Lucifer is wiping me out of stock. He is winning the war and I can't let him beat me because I am the powerful almighty God.

Sounds like you were given a different version of the story. The way you asked the question Leary, it's as if you believe that pure innocent angels from heaven are forced to incarnate as humans and prove that they deserved to be in heaven in the first place. I never heard of that version. Why did your God take his sweet little pure angelic children and subject them to the temptation of rebellion and the threat of eternal damnation in hell for no reason? That's really sick and more warped then the version I was told.

Either way you cut any of these stories, this God is a mad man and utterly unbelievable as an all loving compassionate forgiving mentally stable, secure in its position as an all mighty powerful being.

I remember being a kid sitting in church listening to the cult like brainwashing to believe in and love and serve without question this nut case that damns to hell its own angelic children thinking this God guy is a real jerk. It's a no wonder Lucifer gave him the bird and split from home. He was like the original teen runaway from a angry control freak child abuser.

Learyfan, doesn't something in all of this smell like foul fish to you or are you not able to question the sense it all doesn't make because that would be sinful?

If I have offended anyone, please just write me off as a rebel sinner sent to tempt you into questioning your faith and say a Rosary for my soul or something and of course, in line with your faith forgive me for I know not what I do and have pity mercy on my blasphemous soul or something like that. :bow: :kiss: :flowers: :heartpump:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Hell and bringing up kids [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3935682 - 03/18/05 02:33 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Ok, I guess I didn't know about children being the vehicles of rebel souls which are getting another chance at heaven. If that's what people believe, then I guess my post is pointless. What in my post made you think I was a Christian, though? I not only don't believe in Christianity, I dislike it very much.


Ziddy: I thought you were joking about the Yates thing. Interesting.





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