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Offlinetomk
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Jesus
    #3932095 - 03/17/05 09:08 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I want to post this view about Jesus.

Let's suppose that Jesus was particularly sensative to a type of religious experience. Then, it would become likely that he had the experiences he described but misinterpreted them. Jesus had cosmic consciousness, but made the mistake that because he felt identical with god, no one else is. Had jesus some buddhist monks around to help guide him, he would of properly realized that his experience of cosmic consciousness was could be replicated as others. Had the monks been around, Jesus could of also learned to KEEP FOCUSING ON YOR MEDITATION when you start to see or hear stuff while meditating, and so he would not of become lost in the symbolic imagery he focused on. If this view was right, jesus was neither divine nor insane, nor dishonest, and he merely misinterpreted the mystical experience.

So whaddya think?


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"I am eternally free"


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Jesus [Re: tomk]
    #3932476 - 03/17/05 10:19 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Supposing anything about Jesus is folly because we don't even really know if he existed much less what he might have thought. Let's talk about what Zeus or Odin might have thought....get the picture? Meditation is only a means to an end not an end within itself.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineMAGnum
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Re: Jesus [Re: tomk]
    #3932690 - 03/17/05 11:00 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

tomk said:
I want to post this view about Jesus.

Jesus had cosmic consciousness, but made the mistake that because he felt identical with god, no one else is.




Not true. Read John 10:30-35


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Agent 727
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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Jesus [Re: tomk]
    #3932695 - 03/17/05 11:01 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

You are the one who is misinterpreting. You must have no idea what the history is behind the writing of the books contained in the New Testament and are assuming that Y'shua ben Miriam is somehow responsible. Try reading 'Liberating the Gospels' by John Shelby Spong if you really have an interest in what has transpired between the 1st century carpenter-rabbi-mystic and the later 'midrashic' writings about Him.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Jesus [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3932746 - 03/17/05 11:06 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

There is little doubt that Saul/Paul of Tarsus existed. Some of his letters are deemed completely authentic and fit into the time scheme of some 30 years after the death of "a certain Chrestus" (Josephus). Since Paul's adult life was completely dedicated to his transcendental experiences of the Resurrected Y'shua ben Miriam, (which, incidentally has nothing to do with a 'resusitated' corpus, but a being of Light and Sound), it is unlikely that Y'shua did not exist as a historical personage. The mythological overlays began with the Johannine writings.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Jesus [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3932772 - 03/17/05 11:10 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
There is little doubt that Saul/Paul of Tarsus existed. Some of his letters are deemed completely authentic and fit into the time scheme of some 30 years after the death of "a certain Chrestus" (Josephus). Since Paul's adult life was completely dedicated to his transcendental experiences of the Resurrected Y'shua ben Miriam, (which, incidentally has nothing to do with a 'resusitated' corpus, but a being of Light and Sound), it is unlikely that Y'shua did not exist as a historical personage. The mythological overlays began with the Johannine writings.



Paul never met Jesus during his physical life. He only had a mystical experience involving him. Since mystical experiences do not scientifically prove anything, and must be taken on faith alone, this does not lend any credibilty to Jesus as a historical figure.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Jesus [Re: Silversoul]
    #3932943 - 03/17/05 11:32 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

No, mystical experiences only have authority for the experiencer. However, Paul being a credible historical person didn't spend his adult life writing, preaching, teaching and probably dying for a mere legend.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Jesus [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3933016 - 03/17/05 11:45 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

He spent his life writing, preaching, teaching, and dying for what he believed to be real based on his mystical experience, which, as you said, only had authority for him.


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Jesus [Re: tomk]
    #3933030 - 03/17/05 11:48 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I don't see anything in the Bible that convinces me that Jesus thought he was the only child of God. To the contrary..consider this statement by Jesus, " Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods??

He also spoke of his miracles in the following way, "He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do."

You won't hear either of those statements preached in a typical Christian church. They won't touch them (and certain other statements by their founder) for some strange reason.

I think what Jesus was attempting to do was to lay out a blueprint for humanity using his life as an example. He led a perfect spiritual life and wants us to follow his example using the Christ consciousness within all of us.


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Jesus [Re: Silversoul]
    #3933091 - 03/18/05 12:02 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Right, and like many philosophers who grok that Reality is subjective and perceptual, those of us who have lived our lives with faith in The Way, Know what we Know. Christ is The Way - to be - as in the essential "To be or not to be, that is the question..." The Essence of phenomenal existence is The Way as we see it - the metaphysical substratum of creation - the Logos was Fully Realized by Jesus called Christ. By what other yardstick could one measure one's own human development than by this Way of being?


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinetomk
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Re: Jesus [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3933131 - 03/18/05 12:09 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

No man it's a contantly evolving thing where each teir offers something none else have to offer. Jesus offered some good stuff on compassion and some bad stuff on original sin, and misinterpeted his encounters. Buddha is an evolved jesus who realized others could have the same cosmic consciouness. Fast foward to guys like Adi Da who have much of the truth but other huge problems. It's constant evolution no one view can ever be the way.


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"I am eternally free"


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Jesus [Re: tomk]
    #3933212 - 03/18/05 12:46 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Seems to me you are both saying almost the same thing, but are getting hung up on semantics more or less.

But tomk you seem to be enjoying your conversation with Markos so pardon my interruption.

Please keep one eye on traffic as you talk..


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


Edited by Jellric (03/18/05 12:59 AM)


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Offlinesignoffate
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Re: Jesus [Re: tomk]
    #3933332 - 03/18/05 01:28 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)



The man became a river became the man.

on a scale of 0 through 1, how enlightened are you?


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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: Jesus [Re: tomk]
    #3933898 - 03/18/05 05:02 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

For those honest spiritual seekers, in search of answers from a realized master read "Autobiography of a Yogui" by Paramahansa Yogananda. I am at the moment reading this and this book can't cease to amaze me.

There's also a revelatory commentary on the original teachings of Jesus called "The Second Coming of Christ" - The resurrection of the Christ Within You. Also by Paramahansa Yogananda. Below is part of the introduction just to give you a glimpse.

-------

There is a distinguishing difference of meaning between Jesus and Christ. His given name was Jesus; his honorific title was "Christ." In his little human body called Jesus was born the vast Christ Consciousness, the omniscient Intelligence of God omnipresent in every part and particle of creation. This consciousness is the "only begotten Son of God," so designated because it is the sole perfect reflection in creation of the Transcendetal Absolut, Spirit or God the Father.

....

A small cup cannot hold an ocean within itself. Likewise, the cup of human consciousness, limited by the physical and mental instrumentalities of material perception, cannot grasp the universal Christ Consciousness, no matter how desirous one may be of doing so. By the definite science of meditation known for millenniums to the yogis and sages of India, and to Jesus, any seeker of God can enlarge the caliber of his consciousness to omniscience-- to receive within himself the Universal Intelligence of God.

----


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"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Jesus [Re: tomk]
    #3934229 - 03/18/05 07:55 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

That's why I'm a Christian. Christ is "the Door" into the Mysteries of GOD. Adi Da used to be called Bubba Free John back in the 1970's. He is the only American who lasted as his own self-appointed Guru. Have you ever read the degree of pathological ego-inflation the guy writes with? - '...the Truth as I, Adi Da alone has revealed."

Original Sin, as a doctrine did not exist until St. Augustine devised it much later. Jesus had a much healthier notion of evil - the Jewish explanation which is still held today: we have an evil impulse called 'Yetzer Ha-ra' (as well as a Yom Ha-ra, a good impulse). We are NOT totally depraved from birth through spiritual inheritance going back to Adam and Eve. Original Sin insisted on our total reliance on a Savior, despite the fact that Jesus found men righteous before GOD and said "I have come not for the righteous, but for the sinners.' Augustine kind of ignored that.

BTW, The Way is the translation of the Chinese 'Tao,'also, and as BE HERE NOW pointed out to me 30+ years ago, "The Way is The Way is The Way." The personality of Jesus as brought out in the Bible more than amply instructs us as to The Way of Compassion. For myself, Buddhism and Platonism are the two greatest Eastern and Western philosophical systems of thought. Both have enhanced my life of contemplation of Being-in-Christ. Reverence and devotion belong to ONE alone, as in my marriage, fidelity is everything.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Jesus [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3934251 - 03/18/05 08:04 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I enjoyed Autobiography of a Yogi because it fueled my enthusiasm for what was possible, and it served as a bridge from the Indian philosophy that I was steeped in as an undergraduate philosophy major to becoming a Christian. I then found other authors like Bede Griffith who wrote 'Vedanta and Christianity.' Bede was a Catholic monk who showed me that Christianity could become further hybridized with Indian philosophy as it had with Jewish and Greek philosophy. I have learned to do this in my own walk.

Be advised though, that the Hindu take on Jesus is just that - a Hindu take. Hinduism has a long history of absorbing other religious doctrines and giving them their own twist. Hence, Jesus becomes an Avatar among many. This de-centralizes Christ from the Christocentric perspective of Christianity. Yogananda was referred to as a Yogi-Christ, and just as he has differentiated Jesus from Christ for you (a Gnostic Christian view BTW), you must be able to separate Yogananda's version of Christ from YOUR OWN - which you will develop over your lifespan. I read the book in 1975.

Namaste. Shanti. Peace. Pax. Shalom.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: Jesus [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3934269 - 03/18/05 08:12 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Christ is just a word as it could be call just about anything. It does not matter which direction you head, all paths lead to the same goal because the path is the same, life. Some take a bit longer, some a bit less. It's a matter of chosing the one that works for you.


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"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar


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Offlinezahudulallah
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Re: Jesus [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3934275 - 03/18/05 08:16 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Christ is walking panentheistic ecstasy. He's the orgasm of Divine intercourse with man.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Jesus [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3935616 - 03/18/05 02:19 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I rather like the "panentheistic ecstasy" part. I expect the "orgasm" to be of the Heart, of course.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Jesus [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #3935656 - 03/18/05 02:27 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

All paths do not lead to the same goal. I've worked with sociopaths, and we are not headed to the same destination now, or later. I have also known aspirants on other spiritual paths, and their aspirations did not partake of the same goal as mine howsoever stated. It is not about me choosing, it is about me having been chosen, and then it is my choice to follow or not to follow.

The word 'Christ' has a specific meaning - 'Annointed' as in the act of having a title bestowed upon one. In this case, the Divine Right of Kingship, although a 'King' of a spiritual kingdom. Kings of Israel were referred to as 'sons of God,' in the book of Daniel and other places. As the word is specific, it points to an individual who is said to have been the recipient of Christhood, and thus He is specific as well. The Way is defined, not an amorphous and vague reality as you suggest.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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