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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Christianity... the ultimate meme.
    #3923467 - 03/16/05 12:16 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I'll start off as an example, their is more then sufficient evidence on the internet regarding what memes are in case you wish to look it up.

Edit:
Found a good brief definition of what a meme is, the good stuff isn't in regards to what a meme is... but more emphasis is place on the dispersal mechanisms of memes
http://www.geocities.com/persistentmemes/what_is_a_meme.html

Beyond that I'd like to provide an example of a meme that won't die, as they are structured to prevent their own death.

Plutarchy:

This meme just won't die, as any attempt to subvert and confound it to any degree is ultimately destroyed by the basis of it's own inception... that of Rule by wealth. In the United States of America, Plutarchy is rampant, especially in respects to it's ability to promote itself, as to legally allow its own existence. It does this several ways, I'm talking in regards to the meme itself, and not how it is conveyed, but rather how the meme itself is kept intact.

1) It supports its own existence through vessels whose fundamental basis relies on acquiring wealth.

2) Those that have it are capable of altering laws as they see fit, through the spreading of it's fundamental basis/concept (through the use of money)

3) Any attempts to stop it are met with vast confrontation, as it's conceptual basis is further used as a means to an ends... The means by which to keep the power of rule with those that have money to spend, and they achieve their end through the use of their belief (the meme that they adhere to).

4) The meme promotes itself through materialism, and is further distributed, given to those at a very young age, as American's tend to place a large emphasis on material wealth, the acquisition of power, and the retention of that.

5) All is possible through the use the memes basis (money), and it promotes itself through it's own basis and further disenfranchises other notions, and other motivations, by suggesting that they won't get you anywhere... as power, and wealth are the most important characteristics, and sought after virtues to many an American (all need it to a degree... nothing wrong with that... but no principle is placed on it other then gain of it in it's rawest form beyond other memes of the individual attached to it).

Now, Christianity:

1) It supports it's own basis through the use of a one and only unified God... Jehova, who is greater then the other false gods. If one chooses not to believe in this one "true god" then they are further cast out in the believers eyes... as they shall not recieve the gift of eternal life, and salvation... Instead a degree of eternal torment, and damnation is offered as an offense to not adhering to this.

2) Those that question it, are further questioned as to why they are sinners, in the most generalized terms. Many common analogies can be provided, but notably, a degree of passive confrontation is implied, such as "why not let Jesus into you heart"?

3) It is a means as control, through biblical teachings that suggest that it cannot be flawed, as it is the word of God... even though their are many within the Church that have espoused in public books that they have indeed changed it.

4) A belief against the bible, or a disbelief in it, is equivalent to condemning yourself.

5) The beliefs presented in addition to those that don't believe will not seek salvation, but stances on many aspecits of cultural life including drug use, homosexuality, censorship, woman's suffrage (was slowed due to this, still have a rift between job's available as well as wages among others) et etal... Are a means that destroys familiies by creating a rift between opposing idealogies. Among other things, it creates further seperations by placing those in your family "outside the circle" as it were, the circle of everlasting life. Which of course, is a selfish thing to do, hence why many are compelled to provide a reason why one should believe in the name of the Lord and in Christ's teachings as to give the gift of salvation. (As to be selfish is a sin) Which to say the least... doesn't help with the goal of equality (legal status's attributed).

6) Their are many a means of it to prevent it's own destruction which aren't too disimilar from that of Plutarchy. One such damage control mechanism is that of sin... Another such is that of eternal damnation... Perhaps the greatest prevention imbued into the book, which is very brilliant is that fact that if you attempt to destroy the belief itself, it has a built in protocol to prevent it's own demise.

7) The built in protocols, suggest that you are a tool of the Devil. The devil is what provides all these evil, insiped temptations, as well as the disasters... Anytime it happens to a believer, it is suggested that they are being tempted by the foul Demon himself.... and that even though they have herpes, malaria, cancer, congenital birth defects, it wasn't god's design, but rather it was a machination of the devil.

8) This is a means to control and to keep those that are of "bad luck" that it wasn't god's intention, and pretty much is equivalent to suggesting that you are recieving a trial of sorts in that, it is a test of your faith in god. If it doesn't work out however... you're dead.... but that fact often isn't addressed, and their is a saying that I like to associate with that, it is called "god's mysterious ways".

9) The greatest tool to prevent it's destruction (no longer talking about the retention of the meme's believers) is that if anyone has the power to destroy the belief, or attempts to; they are indeed demonic and tools of the devil, which will ultimately put the die-hard believers into a further state of affirmation of their faith.

10) As per one attempting to destroy the belief, and if one has success in doing so, and convincing those that aren't zeolots... then they are described as the biblical beast, and any that follow this "beasts" ways, are also to be damned into the eternal pits of hell, which further affirms the belief, and which will of course lead to a greater number of converts... I mean sheep, as they will provide relevance, as mass hysteria to the true nature of the Bible will be revealed... and those sheep will suggest that yes, indeed, look at what is occuring... wars, pestilance, famine, natural disaster's (tsunami that occured recently provoked similar thought about "the end times", and was being questioned if it was a sign)....which have always occured through mankind's history will be given more relevance.

11) As a fanatic, with a book of generalization is capable of culling people as fear is among one of the greatest glues, to attract large populations of people together... some of the events will be manipulated, and directly due to the nature of the bible, others will not... but nonethelss they will be given equal relevance... when a pipe is broken, a plumber is called, for he knows just what the problem is; as he has encountered it or similar problems, and has a general knowledge as to the nature of plumbing systems.

12) When peoples fears are hightened, and when a book of generalizations its used... a fanatic is called, for they are the ones that know the nature of the events, and they will be given more authority due to the fact that they will similarly be thought of as equally enlightened by merit of their knowledge of events... due to the fact that this is an ultimate meme.

13) Just like to congradulate the long dead writers of this book. It's an ultimate meme that has swayed millions, and shall continue to sway millions with it's idealistic approach and take on the happenings that befall mankind, and the reasoning thereof; i give it 5/5 stars. (Those little sarcastic stars e.g. cookies)

This is my take on it, It's generalized, it's somewhat scattered, hope you get the gist of it. 20 minutes with little overview will do that to you. I know some aspects of it might not seem all to clear, but that's what happens when the fingers get busy.

It is numbered for ease of reference, not due to the fact of it being of a similar nature.

Thoughts, comments, bitching, insights, calling me a sinner from the bowels of hell.... etc., all welcomed.

Edit: correcting my poor spelling, punctuation as I go.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Edited by Psychoactive1984 (03/16/05 06:10 PM)


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InvisibleDNKYD
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Re: Christianity... the ultimate meme. [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3923497 - 03/16/05 12:23 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Good read. Thanks :thumbup:


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Offlineslaphappy
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Re: Christianity... the ultimate meme. [Re: DNKYD]
    #3923512 - 03/16/05 12:28 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Nothing a little LSD wont dissolve... :smile:


--------------------
The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Christianity... the ultimate meme. [Re: slaphappy]
    #3923530 - 03/16/05 12:32 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

/calls Learyfan into the thread

Learyfan: What's up?
Psychoactive1984: Want to be a tool of the devil and destroy beliefs that are constructed to retain power and control?
Learyfan: Sure, let me get my vial.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: Christianity... the ultimate meme. [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3923722 - 03/16/05 01:05 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Awesome material.

It's amazing how something so vividly evil hides so easily behind a mask of caring and morality. People need to realize certain things that are so obvious, yet you never think to question it.
God is not the all loving character the bible makes him out to be. The existence of Hell shows this. What kind of deity would punish a soul for all eternity, yet still claim to be all loving and forgiving.

It doesn't matter how bad any of your sins are, even genocide; NOTHING justifies an eternity of damnation for sins committed in one lifetime.


--------------------


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Christianity... the ultimate meme. [Re: Minstrel]
    #3924291 - 03/16/05 04:33 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

the ultimate meme.?

An other ultimate meme: science.. :P


--------------------


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Christianity... the ultimate meme. [Re: Gomp]
    #3924320 - 03/16/05 05:04 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Science can be disproven through proof...

Christianity cannot through it's own discourse and assertions.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Christianity... the ultimate meme. [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3924559 - 03/16/05 09:13 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

What's the problem in all of this?
Nobody forces you to accept christianity. Just leave those people alone and focus on finding your own truths and have fun in your life.

If you consider people at your work to be assholes, then your life will be filled with assholes. If you look at them as friends, you will have a workplace filled with friends

You live in a swimming pool, and you contamine the watter with your own thoughts.

I'd rather have clean and fresh watter if you ask me.

I don't know why so many people concentrate on the negative sides of everything.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Christianity... the ultimate meme. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3924582 - 03/16/05 09:35 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

somewhat like joseph campbell labeling christianity (& one might be tempted to include all 3 of the main "abrahamic" religions) as "toxic myths" (primarily, i guess, because of the "us" vs "them" mentality, the resultant implicit & explicit exclusivity...
(and yet, and yet - within judaism, & christianity, & islam lie the possibilty of a universal vision... idealized but unrealized, i suppose...)

i dunno, ymmv...


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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InvisibleNariusFractal
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Re: Christianity... the ultimate meme. [Re: Minstrel]
    #3925931 - 03/16/05 04:42 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Minstrel said:
Awesome material.

It's amazing how something so vividly evil hides so easily behind a mask of caring and morality. People need to realize certain things that are so obvious, yet you never think to question it.
God is not the all loving character the bible makes him out to be. The existence of Hell shows this. What kind of deity would punish a soul for all eternity, yet still claim to be all loving and forgiving.

It doesn't matter how bad any of your sins are, even genocide; NOTHING justifies an eternity of damnation for sins committed in one lifetime.




The existence of hell proves that God is not the all loving being that the bible makes him out to be? Where did you learn about the existence of hell? Have you seen it?

The Bible is likely that magical source. Also, to learn more about the loving God, read the first 5 chapters of the Tanak. That is, the Old Testament.


--------------------
You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Christianity... the ultimate meme. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3926002 - 03/16/05 04:57 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
What's the problem in all of this?
Nobody forces you to accept christianity. Just leave those people alone and focus on finding your own truths and have fun in your life.........
I don't know why so many people concentrate on the negative sides of everything.




His post was in relation to memes that have continued to survive and thrive throughout the years, determines that the concept of Christianity to be one of the more substansial memes to address, and then analyzes and describes how he feels this meme has propagated itself.

He isn't "focusing on the negative", this doesn't involve what light we view people in, this seems to me to be a philosophical expression of Chrisitianity as a meme and its perennial continuity, questioning how it supports itself and spreads further, acrossed minds and acrossed time. His examples do demonstrate how this meme continues its existance, and our history after its conception shows this (Crusades, missionaries, witch-hunts, moral standards, national religions, etc. etc. etc.).

This does not directly concern the message of Christianity itself nor its followers, and it does not matter if you cast it in a positive or negative light. These examples do demonstrate how Christianity as a meme has propated and continued its existance, and that is all his post is concerned with. :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Christianity... the ultimate meme. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3926054 - 03/16/05 05:08 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
What's the problem in all of this?
Nobody forces you to accept christianity. Just leave those people alone and focus on finding your own truths and have fun in your life.

If you consider people at your work to be assholes, then your life will be filled with assholes. If you look at them as friends, you will have a workplace filled with friends

You live in a swimming pool, and you contamine the watter with your own thoughts.

I'd rather have clean and fresh watter if you ask me.

I don't know why so many people concentrate on the negative sides of everything.




My analysis is not in terms of light/dark, good/bad, other then the assertions presented through the meme. You have been contaminated with a subsequent meme which allows you to focus on the black and white... I prefer the grey :shrug:

Sure, I'll leave this meme alone. As long as you don't concern yourself with Nazism, Racism, Fascism, or anything else that has a negative consequence through its dispersal. We'll all just leave everyone alone, including those that have destructive beliefs. As a matter of fact, let's not even post in this forum, as we're giving our take on something...


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Offlinefaslimy
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Re: Christianity... the ultimate meme. [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3926271 - 03/16/05 05:47 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

There are far more negative things about christianity whan what has been brought up in this thread so far


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Christianity... the ultimate meme. [Re: faslimy]
    #3926371 - 03/16/05 05:58 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

faslimy said:
There are far more negative things about christianity whan what has been brought up in this thread so far




"relative to the observere", hence the observer is truth, what he observes, is fiction.. :P

:eek: :rolleyes: :sun:


--------------------


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Christianity... the ultimate meme. [Re: Gomp]
    #3926413 - 03/16/05 06:03 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I agree with you gomp. All of the burining and the ceasation of science in the name of god were good relative to the observers.

The crusades helped facilitate trade, and spread new ideas.

You just have to see the positive in the negative.

/end rant :whatever:


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Offlinefaslimy
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Re: Christianity... the ultimate meme. [Re: Gomp]
    #3926507 - 03/16/05 06:19 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I'm sorry I really missed the point on that one  :oogle:


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Christianity... the ultimate meme. [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3926529 - 03/16/05 06:22 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

as we all know?
for science to be true, we must believe it?
for truth to be true.. it is.. hahahha


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Offlinefaslimy
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Re: Christianity... the ultimate meme. [Re: Gomp]
    #3926551 - 03/16/05 06:28 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

My original post was a repsonse to OldWoodSpecter, sorry to confuse. Let's not argue about what we agree on :wink:

I'll call it the 5 sense truth


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Christianity... the ultimate meme. [Re: faslimy]
    #3926591 - 03/16/05 06:35 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.

hehehehe :P

I take it for granted, that you see the double meaning i see in that... hehehehehe  :heart:


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Christianity... the ultimate meme. [Re: Gomp]
    #3928060 - 03/16/05 11:14 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Must you take up a contrary position? Or is it that you think you must? :tongue:


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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